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My Email To the DOJ Through the ACLU
So, I get yet another email today, this time from the ACLU.
Dear ACLU Supporter,
As a result of shocking revelations in the CIA Inspector General's report, which was brought to light by an ACLU lawsuit, Attorney General Eric Holder has announced the appointment of a prosecutor to investigate prison abuse cases carried out as part of the Bush torture program.
As anyone who has seen the details of this appalling report can tell you, this investigation is necessary and long overdue, and Attorney General Holder should be commended for taking this important step.
However, the very limited scope of the investigation he launched today is nowhere near as thorough and broad as the torture investigation America really needs.
Urge Attorney General Holder to conduct a thorough examination of the Bush torture program.
So I click on the email link, and I fill out my basic information and get ready to send the generic email message already written for me, but then......I stop. And I erase it all. Because it doesn't say what I want to say. What I want to say is this:
Most people who do this, who send you this kind of auto generated email from the ACLU or whomever else, they just click and send and agree with whatever auto-generated message has been written for you.
Me? I want to send you my thoughts.
I was a Republican since I was old enough to vote. No, scratch that. I had a stuffed toy elephant named Nixon when I was a child. I was a life-long Republican.
The things that have happened under Bush and Cheney made me leave my old party. Made me lean so far left that my family doesn't recognize me anymore.
I'm the better woman for it.
What Cheney and Bush did, was they raped the Geneva Conventions as well as our Constitution.
Raping our Constitution, that only hurt us. But the Geneva Conventions, that hurt us overseas.
My nephew is in the military, and he served in Iraq and he signed up for three more years. That means he might end up in Afghanistan next.
If he is ever taken prisoner and treated the way Cheney and Bush and Blackwater/Xe, et.al. treat a prisoner of war? I'm going to do more than just send emails.
Something tells me, however, that only OUR country has been willing to do such harm. And that thought sickens me almost as much.
DO something. Our country deserves a better reputation than this.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
LisB (the rest of the info is, of course, deleted, but you get my drift)
Well, needless to say, I sent it.
Most likely won't ever get read by anybody, but.....made me feel better, just the same.
Dear ACLU Supporter,
As a result of shocking revelations in the CIA Inspector General's report, which was brought to light by an ACLU lawsuit, Attorney General Eric Holder has announced the appointment of a prosecutor to investigate prison abuse cases carried out as part of the Bush torture program.
As anyone who has seen the details of this appalling report can tell you, this investigation is necessary and long overdue, and Attorney General Holder should be commended for taking this important step.
However, the very limited scope of the investigation he launched today is nowhere near as thorough and broad as the torture investigation America really needs.
Urge Attorney General Holder to conduct a thorough examination of the Bush torture program.
So I click on the email link, and I fill out my basic information and get ready to send the generic email message already written for me, but then......I stop. And I erase it all. Because it doesn't say what I want to say. What I want to say is this:
Most people who do this, who send you this kind of auto generated email from the ACLU or whomever else, they just click and send and agree with whatever auto-generated message has been written for you.
Me? I want to send you my thoughts.
I was a Republican since I was old enough to vote. No, scratch that. I had a stuffed toy elephant named Nixon when I was a child. I was a life-long Republican.
The things that have happened under Bush and Cheney made me leave my old party. Made me lean so far left that my family doesn't recognize me anymore.
I'm the better woman for it.
What Cheney and Bush did, was they raped the Geneva Conventions as well as our Constitution.
Raping our Constitution, that only hurt us. But the Geneva Conventions, that hurt us overseas.
My nephew is in the military, and he served in Iraq and he signed up for three more years. That means he might end up in Afghanistan next.
If he is ever taken prisoner and treated the way Cheney and Bush and Blackwater/Xe, et.al. treat a prisoner of war? I'm going to do more than just send emails.
Something tells me, however, that only OUR country has been willing to do such harm. And that thought sickens me almost as much.
DO something. Our country deserves a better reputation than this.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
LisB (the rest of the info is, of course, deleted, but you get my drift)
Well, needless to say, I sent it.
Most likely won't ever get read by anybody, but.....made me feel better, just the same.
Advertisement
Heh....see what I mean?
Dear ACLU Supporter,
Thank you for urging Attorney General Eric Holder to conduct a thorough investigation into the Bush administration's detainee abuse and follow the evidence wherever it may lead. We must make sure the prosecutor’s mandate is broad enough to fully investigate those who authorized and committed torture—even at the highest levels of government.
Will you take the next step and invite your friends and family to stand with you in demanding accountability?
Just copy and paste the message below and send it to your friends.
Thanks again for taking action. We'll keep you up-to-date on this important issue.
Sincerely,
ACLU Online Team
Well, that's why I'm sending my TPM family my response.
August 24, 2009 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
If your nephew is unfortunately ever taken prisoner, you should be jumping for joy if he is treated the way Bush/Cheney/etc treated prisoners.
Crazy people like Saddam, Osama and others weren't/aren't as nice to their prisoners of war
August 25, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
It does not follow from this, not in anyway whatsoever, that Cheney got information from his torture, or that U.S. soldiers taken as prisoner or held hostage will not be treated worse because it.
It goes without saying that you should not have personalized this to LisB's relative and don't you dare say that she started it -- she is fretting over family in harm's way and understandably so. If you want to argue over Cheney, fine, but leave her and her family out of it and don't you dare say it is a double standard -- her relative is just and abstraction to you and you have no right. If you wanna argue with me about Cheney or anything else, fine.
August 25, 2009 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I am saying is that the US treats is prisoners alot more humanely than our Middle East enemies
August 25, 2009 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, we used to anyway, and may begin again.
August 25, 2009 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Powerful words, LisB. Thanks for putting your heart in them.
Don't be discouraged by the ACLU auto-response. That's just a computer program talking. I encourage you to take these words and email (and snail mail) them directly to AG Holder, to President Obama, and the ACLU. Someone will read them -- at least a WH flunky, and I guarantee someone at the ACLU will read and appreciate them.
August 25, 2009 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. I'll do that.
August 25, 2009 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is almost unbelievable. How did it go so bad so fast during the Bush administration? They smugly professed to be morally higher than the previous administration.
The strategy for the right is that if you say it enough times and with conviction...it is as good as if it were true. We are going to be paying for the misdeeds of the Bush administration for years and years to come.
The country is lucky to have young people like your nephew who are willing to serve. I wish him all the best.
August 24, 2009 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Norseman. He's got a good head on his shoulders, and I'm very proud of him. Skeered shitless for him, but proud.
As for how fast we let our country get taken over by Bush and Cheney and their complicit ways....I keep giving this a lot of thought.
I doubt it could have happened without the events of September 11, 2001, and yet I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I also believe that it could not have happened without the Nixon years.
Between all those years, we saw Jimmy Carter denigrated by the media and the right wing, and we saw Clinton torn apart by same.
The right-wingers SURE know how to throw a party.
August 24, 2009 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks LisB
I have written too. If there is no accountability for the abuses of the previous administration, then it is a silent endorsement for all those who would seek to lead this country indicating that they may abuse us in such ways as there will never be any accountability.
August 24, 2009 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, Synch, and thank you for wording it so clearly and succinctly.
August 24, 2009 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
synch, there's a line that was crossed during the Bu$h Administration. Crossing that line was the same as turning down the road towards Hell. Once you've realized your mistake, it's too late to turn back ... you're committed. Sad fact, everyone will have the cross to bear because of the actions of a few who should have known better and the inactions of others who's responsibility it was to make sure the line was never crossed. The German people all suffered from the actions of the Nazi's even though many realized what was wrong, but were powerless to stop it.
August 25, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff to Secretary of State, Colin Powell, investigated the torture programs for Powell. He was appalled at what he learned.
Interviewed yesterday by Keith Olbermann, Wilkerson pointed out that his investigation showed that the torture policies emanated from Vice President Cheney and his counsel, David Addington, but that only a very small percentage ("less than 1%) of CIA were involved in carrying out their orders. He names names: Tenet, McLaughlin, Rodriguez, and a few more.
But perhaps Wilkerson's most important observation was that for the vast majority of CIA who objected to the torture operations or who refused to participate in violating previous CIA guidelines, the failure to investigate and prosecute those at the top responsible for the crimes will demoralize all the law-abiding CIA staff, which is the majority.
The failure to prosecute the torture policy-makers will also put CIA staff in danger of intimidation in the future by those officials who might order them to violate the law. How can they resist illegal orders if everyone knows that the higher-ups will never be held accountable for their illegalities.
So, Attorney General Holder, please don't risk the demoralization of CIA and military staff by your failure to fully investigate and prosecute those responsible for the torture and other war crimes that have put our CIA staff and soldiers in danger of intimidation by their superiors and retaliation by foreign countries.
Bush, Cheney, Addington, the OLC lawyers and all who participated in the torture program must be prosecuted if the rule of law is to be restored in the U.S.
August 25, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liberal media is the most accurate form of repeated propaganda there is. How do Carter and Clinton get dragged through all that shite while the GOP gets a free pass? Seriously? It amazes me we STILL have no-bid contracts. What kinduva free market is THAT?!?
August 25, 2009 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
10% accountability is not good enough.
Dick Cheney is a war criminal on the loose.
He's laughing at America right now.
He doesn't think anyone has the guts to put him in leg irons.
It's good that the ACLU is pushing to broaden the investigations. Because we can't begin to restore justice if we don't endeavor to apply it.
Thanks for posting this Lis.
August 24, 2009 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for that comment, Gary, because I hold Cheney the most accountable. And always will.
August 24, 2009 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just thought I'd add this post by Glenn Greenwald on the subject:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
August 25, 2009 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lissy, I almost agree. I hold bush primarily accountable. Even though cheney was probably the mastermind behind all this crapola, he was only able to do what bush allowed. They are both dispicable.
August 25, 2009 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unless there have been changes, my take is that the DOJ has already conceded that John You/et.al.'s Torture Memos have been accepted as Legalities. If then, only "those who acted in a manner beyond the scope of legality" in interrogations would be/could be prosecuted. Huh? Some Constitutional scholars like Jonathan Turley believe it is fact illegal for the DOJ and by extension Obama NOT to go after the officials above. Your take?
I grant that optimists might believe that at least this could be a starting point in the investigations; and later the Prosecutor could claim that he must follow the evidence higher up. Poorly worded, sorry; it's only 5:30a.m.
August 25, 2009 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
UN CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
Article 2
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
August 25, 2009 8:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
re: John Yoo, et al ...
I'm reading a book by Jack Goldsmith titled The Terror Presidency. Goldstein took over the post as head of the Office of Legal Counsel after Jay Bybee left. So far the book is interesting in that it gives the reader first person experience, straight from the horse's mouth, just how logically screwed up you have to be in order to be considered a true conservative worthy of being appointed to a political position in a repuglican administration.
I've only cover the first 25% of the book, but Goldsmith repeatedly drills home the point, during the entire Bu$h Administration the entire legal apparatus was geared towards reinterpreting existing laws, treaties and statutes to agree with Bu$h's vision of the law. One of the most striking exercises the legal beagles were always tossed was to create Golden Shields to protect anyone doing Bu$h and Cheney's bidding immunity from the law. But what was really astonishing was they actually weren't just interested in the immediate future ... during Bu$h's watch ... they went so far as to extend immunity protection beyond into the next presidency just in case the Democrats either gained control of Legislature and/or Executive branch and started a witch hunt making martyrs of the loyal, conservative appointees following the wants and desires of Bu$h and Cheney.
So far, I've understood Goldsmith to be saying regardless if someone violated US laws and/or International treaties and the Geneva Convention to boot ... they did so because they were given immunity and knew that no one could legally hold them accountable for their actions. Remember, the Nazi's at the Nuremburg Trials all tried to defend their actions by saying they were only following orders. We didn't buy that defense and sentenced many to long prison terms and others to the gallows.
I suspect the list of lawlessness will get longer as this Administration keeps finding tidbits of info alluding to gross negligence, high crimes and misdemeanors with immunity clauses that will keep the their actions from ever seeing the light of day.
August 25, 2009 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
And the legal justifications were to protect them from WHAT THEY HAD ALREADY DONE IN THE PAST. Some sick shite.
I am also weirded out about everyone's shock about drills and fake executions when there are various numbers floating around about prisoners who died during torture, and prisoners who have simply vanished into the ether.
Jane Mayer has sure stayed on this story. I wouldn't have the stomach for it...the old Nietzche line, i think, about "looking into the abyss" (for too long...)
August 25, 2009 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Jane was on top of this story.
August 25, 2009 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
true, Wendy. Mock executions more shocking than real executions??
Immediately following every news story or White House announcement (and I mean by either administration, Democratic or Republican) everyone should ask the same thing:
"Yes, thanks for taking my question. I was wondering, do you think I'm a complete idiot? Again, thanks for taking my question."
August 25, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worth repeating.
August 25, 2009 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's what Holder sez ...they need to be protected from legal jeopardy when they act in good faith and within the scope of legal guidance
That's the problem. At the time, the OLC knew the legal opinions and guidance ... think Yoo here ... they were manufacturing with crude reasoning and facts that couldn't stand up under legal scrutiny would be hard to admonish once people began to use it. Now there are supposedly innocent persons only doing their jobs and had been told what they were doing was completely legal. Even the Nuremberg trials admonished the accused - they should have known a reasonable person wouldn't do the things they were on trial for. Same goes for those in the Bu$h Administration. If they thought the actions they were taking were illegal, then they should have said no.
August 25, 2009 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
One last point by Justice Robert Jackson, chief US prosecutor at Nuremberg.
How can we ignore our own jurisprudence, especially when we used it to condemn Nazi's to prison and to death?
August 25, 2009 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've asked others this, and you seem to know this subject well. Years ago I had read a piece about some of wheelings and dealings that transpired in order to prevent the U.S. from being prosecuted for Nakasaki and Hiroshima. Thoughts?
August 25, 2009 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can either go here for the long haul:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/nuremberg.htm
or here for a quick rundown:
http://firedoglake.com/
and look for Holder Overturns Justice Jackson and Nuremberg
The bombing of Nakasaki and Hiroshima were war related. Just as the bombing of the public in London by the Germans, the nighttime bombings of Germany by the Brits where they couldn't identify their targets but dropped anyway and the firebombing of Dresden by the US and Brits - war is hell and who's to judge the significance of a target of opportunity? If you really want to know about the legal issues, then read about the way Nuremberg was approached by the US. They really cover the LAW they used. It was really surprising just how fair, but stern they were. It definitely was black and white justice - you either did or didn't; no in betweens allowed. The trick is to know what LAW is being used to prosecute the accused of a crime.
August 25, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you.
August 25, 2009 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am beginning to thing 'this' all started with reagan. It was incremental changes over the course of three decades.
Then cheney came in with rummy and said:
Let us go where no man has gone before.
A boldness in their fascistic goals never seen before.
Great post LisB. Reminds me I must be more vigilant in supporting my favorite liberal causes.
August 25, 2009 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
It started with Nixon. First, go read Namoi Klein's book, The Shock Doctrine. But to really get the gist of the issue, in Goldstein's book, The Terror Presidency he talks about Kissenger not being able to travel overseas anymore(since 2000) because the International Courts wants him to testify under oath about Nixon's Operation Condor - US assassination squads and their links to the overthrow of the Chilean government in the early 1970's. And this goes back to where Klein explains how Friedman's free market ideology (GOP Party line ever since) got a foothold in ruthlessly destroying a thriving economic engine with the help of the US government playing fast and loose with the rules to keep socialism in check in South America. Of course Nixon goes out, Ford comes in and TA-DA we're introduced to Rumsfeld and Cheney. It all is starting to come around in a full circle.
August 25, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Ford pardoned Nixon, thereby nixing (pun intended) true discovery of the extent of Watergate crimes. It seems to have spawned the idea that an administration can get away with High Crimes with impunity, under the guise that Americans really just have no stomach for "revenge politics." Ugh.
August 25, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you so much, Beetlejuice, for all these great comments. I've learned so much from you. Appreciated.
August 25, 2009 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nixon set the stage for all of them.
August 25, 2009 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention it hurt countless people overseas, too.
But until the U.S. government admits that we have in fact been in violation of the Geneva Conventions, then our current administration is likewise complicit. No change.
Good letter, LisB.
August 25, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. Thanks, Gasket.
August 25, 2009 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have to be completely insane if you think that the terrorists/Taliban would hesitate for a moment before torturing anyone in their possession. It's what they do, torture and then execute (usually behead) all captives. You are also woefully ignorant to think that other countries don't routinely engage in all sorts of torture, and not the simulated, pretend to drown with medical supervision we engaged in, but old fashioned medieval style torture. I'm glad you are not calling yourself a Republican anymore, with your views you are a typical,uninformed, blame America liberal.
August 25, 2009 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go somewhere and find out in person, then report back. We'll keep a spot for you, honest.
August 25, 2009 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is not about 'them'. This is about us AND our agreements with other nations about how we will treat captured 'combatants'.
The fact that we engaged in such dispicable acts has encouraged more to join our 'terrorist' enemies and to be wholly justified in 'torturing' those of our people that they capture.
Once you have a person in your custody there is absolutely no need or justification for torture.
August 25, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, they are not combatants, they are not soldiers, they are terrorists. They represent no nation, wear no uniforms, and are not covered by the Geneva Conventions.
Second, how do you say there is no need or justification? This is not a game, lives are at stake. Would you really argue if a terrorist was captured that knew the code to disarm a bomb, a bomb on a plane with your entire family on board, that there would be no justification in using torture to make him tell you the code? Would you allow your entire family to die for your ideals? Or just someone else's family?
August 25, 2009 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the heat of the moment,of course we would all lash out and our pain would be without bounds. We would want to kill, inflict the greatest pain and damage possible. But, keep in mind, those who authorize and condone torture are sure to keep them and theirs out of the mess and ongoing destruction - never the ones that actually do the deed, just from afar wring their hands together and ordering it done!
Their only motivation is really the same as those who committed the horrific acts to begin with...
and the foundation is always mired in their egos and personal agendas.
But, all violence does is beget more of the same.
If we truly want to live in a world that is sane and safe, we must adhere to, 'We mean what we say and say what we mean!' Even when confronted with the supreme inhumanity to us and ours.
No more lines in the sand, but solid in the cement of our country's foundation!
Peace CB.
August 25, 2009 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that is one of the worst misnomers in this whole debate: that everyone who has been incarcerated is indeed a "terrorist." Hogwash. There have been so many who were swept up in raids in Afgahinstan and Iraq and other nations who were tortured, then never charges with crimes, and silently, without fanfare, released.
It was very clear in Afghanistan that the U.S./Coaltion of the Barely Wiiling offered rewards for alleged Al-qeda, Sunnis Saddam-supporters, What-ev-er; cash money! It was understood even in 2001 that Warlords would finger rivals for cash, then the detainees were stuffed into un-ventilated trailors and "interrogated."
Ask Meher Ahrar (spelling?) how it was to be a detainee, and be INNOCENT of anything but being Muslim.
August 25, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen, sister. I all too sadly agree.
August 25, 2009 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Talk about bed-wetters!
August 25, 2009 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks LisB, Cheney's so bad his own heart cant stand him and wants to quit and say goodbye.They have to keep torturing it with electroshock and dope to keep it from blowing the whistle on him.
August 25, 2009 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB, I wanna sign your letter to!
August 25, 2009 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Eric. It's my hope that you'll write your own. You're pretty darn eloquent.
August 25, 2009 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink