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On CEO's.......Just Seems To Me......
I'm an admin. And I'm happy with my pay. I have enough to feed my cats and pay my rent and pay my bills: Internet, Cable, Gas, Electric, Car Insurance, One Credit Card for Clothes.
I have two cats, one of which has a urinary tract issue that requires special food and some visits to the Vet.
I haven't been to the movies in over five years. If I want a film I buy it at my local Best Buy or on Amazon. If I want a book, same. I buy my groceries at the local deli or supermarket, and I don't buy anything fancy.
I get by, and I have good friends who make me happy.
When I want to get out and have a real life, I go to a concert, or visit a new state over a holiday with a friend after having saved up tons of money for airfare.
And my life is good.
Now, I look at my life as compared to the lives of these CEO's of companies like my own and Goldman Sachs and Cigna and Aetna and BofA and all these others......and I wonder.
I wonder how in hell they can justify living the way they do.
I mean, sure, they have more education than I do. More work experience. More exposure.
But to take home millions? What in hell do they DO with that money? Well, of course, we know what they do with it, they invest it overseas in secret accounts. But, the money they disclose on their Form 4's and Form 5's and taxes and such......they take that money home.
How do they live? They have huge homes, I'd imagine. Me, I live in an attic apartment and can barely afford to air condition it. Most times I just keep all the windows open and hope for a blessed cross breeze.
These guys have AC and maids and staff and personnel, just at home.
If they would just think of people like you and me now and then, I wouldn't rant......but it just seems to me that these folks want to just live their cushy lives and maybe give to charity now and then as a tax write off without seeing US. US!
WE exist. WE work for them. WE service them. WE need our jobs in order to live and get by. WE need our teeth fixed, our vision corrected, our health taken care of. WE need our jobs.
And these CEO's and their families just blitehly go on, gliding through life happily without seeing any of this real life shit that goes on.
Okay, rant off now. But, Geez. Shouldn't there be some kinda balance???
I have two cats, one of which has a urinary tract issue that requires special food and some visits to the Vet.
I haven't been to the movies in over five years. If I want a film I buy it at my local Best Buy or on Amazon. If I want a book, same. I buy my groceries at the local deli or supermarket, and I don't buy anything fancy.
I get by, and I have good friends who make me happy.
When I want to get out and have a real life, I go to a concert, or visit a new state over a holiday with a friend after having saved up tons of money for airfare.
And my life is good.
Now, I look at my life as compared to the lives of these CEO's of companies like my own and Goldman Sachs and Cigna and Aetna and BofA and all these others......and I wonder.
I wonder how in hell they can justify living the way they do.
I mean, sure, they have more education than I do. More work experience. More exposure.
But to take home millions? What in hell do they DO with that money? Well, of course, we know what they do with it, they invest it overseas in secret accounts. But, the money they disclose on their Form 4's and Form 5's and taxes and such......they take that money home.
How do they live? They have huge homes, I'd imagine. Me, I live in an attic apartment and can barely afford to air condition it. Most times I just keep all the windows open and hope for a blessed cross breeze.
These guys have AC and maids and staff and personnel, just at home.
If they would just think of people like you and me now and then, I wouldn't rant......but it just seems to me that these folks want to just live their cushy lives and maybe give to charity now and then as a tax write off without seeing US. US!
WE exist. WE work for them. WE service them. WE need our jobs in order to live and get by. WE need our teeth fixed, our vision corrected, our health taken care of. WE need our jobs.
And these CEO's and their families just blitehly go on, gliding through life happily without seeing any of this real life shit that goes on.
Okay, rant off now. But, Geez. Shouldn't there be some kinda balance???
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Your rant is pretty tame this time, Lissy...I've been working on one equating them to a melanoma that will just eat and eat until they've killed the host (us) and themselves, as well. They are out of control...
July 18, 2009 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am with Stilli on this um... Can we adminster chemo or something?
July 19, 2009 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only real way to deal with a melanoma is to cut it off first, and then radiate the remainder...hehe
July 19, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
GO GET EM LISB. Ha.
You know there is so much truth in what you say. And it is so simply said.
It addresses the issue of coveting
It addresses the issue of wants/needs/aspirations
And you do it so quietly. Really LisB, there is poetry here.
to the oligarchy out there who own and control everything...........
WAKE UP
July 18, 2009 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good rant - and so very very true unfortunately.
Those CEO bastids don't even think of what the common man goes through on a daily basis. They are too busy flying around in their private jets, making sure their money is tied up in loopholes, worrying about what house to spend some time in next, what caviar to serve, etc. and on ad nauseum.
I really don't want to go on because my ranting will not be so nicely worded..............
July 18, 2009 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you both.
I used to understand the wealthy folk. I used to think that they understood us back.
I used to think that they were giving, and we were taking.
But....damn me, I just can't see it that way anymore.
I don't want pitchforks and torches, mind you, and I don't want a messy revolution....but, shit.
Something has to give.
July 18, 2009 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can we have a neat revolution that is done quickly and with precision where only those at the top who have caused so much suffering have to suffer? I think that would be okay.
July 19, 2009 4:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
They are obscene.
July 18, 2009 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
They ARE! And it's obscene that they rant and rave over taxes. When's the last time they gave to charities without a farkin tax write-off attached?
When is the last time they saw how many of us are struggling? And if they did, would they care, or just call their accountant and order more money put offshore?
Comes a point where us little people get tired of being little.
July 18, 2009 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also.
I can haz pitchfork?
July 18, 2009 10:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes.You.Can.
Yes.You.Can.Haz.Pitchfork.
Can I haz torch?
July 18, 2009 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oyez!
July 18, 2009 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gud.
July 19, 2009 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can we send pitchfork to South Carolina?
They need to use one on their Governor:)
July 19, 2009 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I gave up on those asshats a long time ago. But when they flew in their private jets to DC so they could hold out their tin cups to Congress ...
The driving puppy was so outraged he wanted to poop in their shoes. :-)
July 19, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
before they put them on!
July 19, 2009 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
The CEO pay and lifestyles are a distortion similar to the way their truths are a distortion.
Real people do so much better with both.
July 19, 2009 2:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
The bitter irony I enjoy most is to see them filing into church on any given Sunday morning. They do this to cleanse themslves of all the filth and enmity they have accumulated during the week. It makes them feel as though as they go through their lives ignoring the suffering of so many that they are somehow expiated form the sin of indifference. While those of us who are not wealthy give practically till it hurts, they give but not proportionately and they certainly make no sacrifices by so doing. To them it is an obligation, but not a priority.
For the CEO class, rarely do they have a better education than I do, and I doubt they work the kind of hours I do. Built into their days are time at the gym/health club, a couple of rounds of golf weekly, etc... they don't have to work in those things. No, I don't think the "work" they do is really all that difficult. I doubt any of them would trade what I do daily for their daily schedule of meetings, luncheons, cocktails, etc... When they travel for either work or pleasure it is often on private jets or if they go commercial it is first class all the way. Why, before AB was sold to Inbev, it is said that Mr. Busch took a helicopter in to work daily so he didn't even have to experience traffic like the rest of us do. A commute that would have taken an hour took him only minutes without a single stop light or delay. With all these luxuries and "extras" that most people would never believe the CEO class begins to mistake their stuff for an innate superiority, a sense that they are actually better than other people and that is why they have all that they have. Political leaders frequently become beguiled by the trappings of their own power in very similar fashion.
What justifies what they make? Absolutely nothing. It's just that they have the power and money to give to themselves great wealth and prestige so they do just that and they are so wrapped up in themselves and their fortunes that their humanity is left far behind and the great wealth they have accumulated benefits only themselves and their immediate families instead of making a gigantic difference for thousands and perhaps millions depending upon how sickeningly rich they are.
July 19, 2009 3:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can agree to an extent, you know, with the people who go on about how it's a free market, and who are we to set salaries? Why would the government even be involved.
But it's your point about balance, the sheer numbers we are talking about, that's what's too much to bear. Why could they DO with so much money, as you say? And who benefits from this? Not our ruined economy. It's frankly ridiculous.
So I'm with you, not out of friendship but out of conviction. Best, O.T.
July 19, 2009 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nicely stated, OT. I was trying to frame up a similar reply. Thx.
July 19, 2009 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the shout-out, Burnie and sorry for the typos. You have yourself a nice Sunday! :)
July 19, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is no rant Lis, it's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Our life is yours; Murry's special food, no movies or DVDs for us, we buy VCRs at garage sales and tape off the cable (for me life today is an NCIS marathon, for the wife it's House)we shop on e-bay for silver findings from China so my Princess can express her art through her jewelery, we eat out (takeout cause we never leave Murry alone) once a week, yesterday it was El Polo Loco with a coupon. We too are happy and accept, strike that, enjoy our small life and each other.
We also know there are dark clouds, retirement is hours away, savings meager, if I didn't say I'm scared I'd be lying. Yet blocks from where we live are big homes, fast cars and endless botox parties.
I don't begrudge success I just question there are only stale crumbs for the rest of us. For you see the "common good" is dead, if it ever existed at all.
Is there a source to our lot, you bet there is: politics.
The health care debate has crystallized what I've always known, our party, the party supposedly of the common good, is not about the sick child, the homeless solder, it's about them and their re-election. And that takes, money, lot and lots of money.
Raise taxes on the rich, no way, they won't give you money. Regulate the banks, what, cut off your biggest contributors, are you crazy. Fix health care, don't make me laugh. Global warming, haaaaa...
What can we do? Pray Obama has a plan. Else my life might just end like the film they used to show in school, Nanook Of The North. Remember, they used to put the old people on an iceberg. With global warming it will be over quick.
Keep ranting.
July 19, 2009 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought about this one overnight. Sometimes it helps.
I think we're about on the edge of a real populist revolt. Disparities like we see around us are doubleplusungood for a healthy, stable society.
The real question, and it is of vital import, is this: Will the revolt be channeled by those of us who like the idea of moderating some of the excesses in order to steady things - while still leaving plenty of incentive for enterprise, or will it be misled by the Palin/Plumber cadre, who will take advantage of people's ill-informed state and urge something much closer to fascism?
Hope, work, and teach for the former. The latter ends this experiment - badly.
July 19, 2009 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
...moderating some of the excesses.
Let me know when you figure out how to explain to the other side what an excess is in a way they understand and will accept.
July 19, 2009 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
The concept of "enough" - people get it or they don't. Once your needs are met and you can live your life well, you have enough. If you or your family are hungry or don't live in a decent place, you don't.
Everyone gets enough. That's the starting point. And if I have enough use of Bwak's pitchfork, the understanding of the concept will follow.
July 19, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB Maybe we should do some sort of daily expose on them as 'people'. They might not care but if we use photos we could recognize them on the street et al. 'Know thine enemy'.
Maybe is we send them a letter demanding restitution wrapped in a twenty... they might at least get the message... though they may never understand.
However just as some switch over from being Fox 'News' republicans... we must remember that some can be turned and they are the most powerful force for persuading others:)
July 19, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
An exposé photo, a day with a pitchfork logo perhaps?
Or an emigration movement- Canada is close and has healthcare, but Europe also has healthcare and is a mass of interesting nations and cultures all or mostly connected by mass transit.
I don't really know. I just remember this same tune from Nixon's days, when people bought school buses for moving to Canada.
Is anyone speaking close to Obama's ear?
July 19, 2009 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
exposé photo a day (without comma, thank you) with pitchfork logo.
July 19, 2009 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
A pitchfork blog... hmm... how fitting.
July 19, 2009 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lis, I lived in Denmark as a kid for a couple of years - in the suburbs of Copenhagen. Across the street there were three houses owned respectively by two taxi-drivers and the CEO of one of the biggest Danish companies. If you had tried to guess which belonged to the CEO, you would have gotten it wrong - he had the smaller house and he only had a BMW while the taxi-drivers had Mercs. What a socialist dystopia! HA as Dick would say...
July 19, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently he read The Millionaire Next Door. :-)
July 19, 2009 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
-Buffalo Springfield
July 19, 2009 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let us not forget where these people came from, shale we. These abominations that currently occupy the corporate board rooms and the halls of the capital.
These people were once referred to as "The Me Generation." The offspring of the Hippies turned Yuppies who lost all their moral outrage concerning war when their arses were no longer in jeopardy of being shot off. Whose idea of child rearing consisted for treating poor Johnny and Marry with kid cloves and giving them their hearts desire. being sure that their kids would only go to the best schools.
And when these kids miss behaved insisted that "they were simply not understood."
Thats right. Now these little angles are running the banks, corporations and the government. Thou reaps what thy sows.
C
July 19, 2009 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oompa Loompa doompadee doo
I've got another puzzle for you
Oompa Loompa doompadee dee
If you are wise you will listen to me
Who do you blame when your kid is a brat
Pampered and spoiled like a Siamese cat?
Blaming the kids is a lion of shame
You know exactly who's to blame:
The mother and the father!
Oompa Loompa doompadee dah
If you're not spoiled then you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa Loompa doompadee do
C
July 19, 2009 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love those Oompa Loompa songs!
July 19, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, everybody, for all the great comments. It was a simple rant, really, but some of your comments are really thoughtful - and thought-provoking! Thanks.
July 19, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, LisB, for another thought-provoking area of focus.
July 19, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to travel the world while I'm still young and healthy enough to do so. I'd like to buy fine things - antiques, works of art, first-edition books. I'd like to dine at the finest restaurants and have a kitchen that rivals the best on the Food Network, all the latest appliances included. I'd like a small home on Abaco island in the Bahamas ... so my bedroom could smell of the sea.
I can afford none of those things, but if I could, would that be living in excess? If I paid my fair share in taxes and stepped on no one along the way, would I still be working-class and meeting my needs?
I wonder, sometimes, when being affluent became a curse. For you see - I don't consider having "a lot" of money to be a bad thing. People who cheat, lie and run over others to advance themselves come in all shapes and sizes. And all bank accounts.
July 19, 2009 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the enemy of whom you speak: Not the CEO; he, after all, did his damage to the little people while climbing the ladder and now merely collects millions. Rather, the enemy consists of those who aspire to be the Alpha Male, the ones who are outdoing each other in doing damage to stand out, to be the best at damage, real players.
Who are these guys? Generically, every one of them is someone, probably not native to New York, who many have had some surprising glitches as a teen but no glaring character flaws. Someone who got a good education, followed by a good start in the work world through good grades he worked for or through family connections he did nothing to merit. Someone who worked slavishly long hours on Wall Street for a few years, soaking up the "what can we get away with it" mindset from people he saw as mentors and role models. Goals set, time out for a B-School or law school that reinforces the now inculcated masters of the universe identification; then back to Wall Street, moving from investment bank to brokerage and back again, proving his worth to his betters not with caution, but by the daring (and amorality) of his proposals (or, if a lawyer, supporting same).
Rewarded with promotions and bonuses for those ideas and strategies that "worked." Rewarding self with an office dalliance, or two or three (that is, after all, where he spends all his time.) And now, instead of being some higher up's bag carrier, getting used to traveling first class and having a bag carrier of his own, or two or three. Trading up the co-op ladder, selling off the weekend house in unfashionable upstate NY or Massachusetts for one in the Hamptons or on the Vineyard. Opening up an offshore account and maybe a numbered Swiss account prior to ditching the first wife, and maybe the second wife, in favor of the trophy wife, half his age, possibly younger than his children. Strategizing against his competition in the hierarchy; counting the ruination of someone else's chances as a "score."
Buying on margin, selling short, inside trading, taking ever greater risks. Convincing all his former classmates, family and friends to allow him to handle their investments. Going for broke, risking it all on one big idea, one transaction. Winning. Or losing. But buttressed himself by sequestered funds, doing it again, and again. Sequentially stiffing family, friends and former classmates, impervious to the cost to the little people, left behind.....
Is it any wonder that this man (or woman) cares not at all for Everyman or Woman? If he can stiff his family, why should we think he would care if he stiffs the great unwashed?
He is a man with only one agenda -- which is to be Alpha Male or, pitifully, the Alpha Male's right hand man.
July 19, 2009 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Beautifully worded, Wendy.
July 19, 2009 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
With one small exception, and that in parentheses very close to the end, you speak of Alpha Male. Harshly, perhaps correctly, with an overall distain. Is the same to be afforded the Alpha Female? For if the status quo in business is to be shaken up, as you have noted in the past should be, will that not then lead to a simple change in offender gender?
Or does, perhaps, the very difference in gender lead to a different outcome? I'm sincerely curious to hear your thoughts.
July 19, 2009 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The personality type that craves power over others transcends gender, ethnicity, and every other background variation imaginable.
And Frank Herbert, author/originator of the never-ending "Dune" series, had one of his characters sum it up quite nicely: Power not only corrupts, it serves as a magnet for the corruptible.
July 19, 2009 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barefoot: I was too lazy to do the him (or her), he (or she), Alpha Male (or Female) and so settled for the traditional usage of "he" for either/or. That may be an irony as I am a woman who is, so often, at pains to make the differentiation, and so I understand why you ask.
I should have said Alpha without respect to male or female. Because for this person, it's all about power, whether real or imagined, and if one is addicted to that -- whether male or female -- the result may be the same.
What do you think?
July 19, 2009 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not really sure, Wendy, it's a thought process still meandering. I tend to think of the Supreme Court, oddly enough. Lots of discussion about how women might or might not make a difference when deciding cases - their view of things being different than those of males. Right or wrong, true or false?
If, indeed, it is true that women process decisions, problems, hypotheticals and realities different than their male counterparts ... would not the same be true in business? I completely agree with both you and Grouch that power corrupts if it is the singular motivation. Corruption and greed go hand-in-hand no matter the gender of the person owning the arms.
But I wonder if the outcome would be the same if a woman is seeking it ... and achieves it. People are people - good, bad and in-between. If there is truly no difference, then why do we care if more women are in positions of power? And if there is a difference, is it better?
Sorry for going off point, Lis. Now I'm being rude.
July 19, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barefoot: I would agree that there may be a difference in gender in terms of priorities when establishing the goal that is being worked for and toward. For example, fewer woman (at the moment) want to be Alpha on Wall Street than want to be Alpha in an industry that has some social awareness/responsibility context.
That sliding scale of public concern would actually make an interesting poll or quizz for women:
Would you rather be the CEO, or managing partner, of:
a) Goldman Sachs;
b Shearman & Sterling;
c) E-Bay;
d) American Red Cross;
e) NPR/PRI;
f) Gates/Ford/MakeAWish Foundation
If a woman selects Goldman Sachs, then, in my opinion, she is in it for the power and the money and there is no gender difference if she makes it to the top.
If she chooses Shearman & Sterling, things get more interesting, as there is plenty of power and plenty of money available at S&S but the firm also does important pro bono work, including representing Gitmo retainees, for free ( a decision made by the current managing partner who is, btw, a male).
I don't know whether or not E-Bay donates any of its profits to charity, or sponsors good works.
Being the CEO of NPR/PRI would be a fascinating job for anyone, but particularly for a woman, who might, or might not, bring about some changes in programming or emphasis in programming.
One would think it would be hard to beat the Red Cross as a goal for having power for the sole purpose of making a difference. But then again, Elizabeth Dole was either the CEO or the President of the Red Cross, and we see that, for her, the ARC was but a stepping stone to political ambition.
What are some other positions of power and influence in which being a woman might not only matter, but perhaps be necessary?
July 19, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Turn it around. If a woman were in charge of Goldman Sachs, would it necessarily be true that she would be no better than a male executive? Assuming your hypothosis, placing a woman in an existing situation would change nothing. I'm betting it would. Whether for a positive change or a negative is up for debate. But I guarantee it would not be the same Goldman Sachs.
Assuming women are more likely to choose an existing corporation, etc. based on its current social awareness or responsibility is limiting. As Lis suggests, the differences in gender when heading up a company may mean the difference between profit or loss. Women are known for being efficient, which can often be the bottom line.
July 19, 2009 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB and Missy: I absolutely think companies may be run more efficiently and profitably by women, as studies suggest. As they would be by men if men were willing to forego the killer/killing mentality and learn a thing or do from the female perspective.
But when we are talking about Goldman Sachs, and its ilk, we are talking about the hardest of the hard core.
There are, of course, exceptions to every rule; and, if a few women ran Goldman Sachs consecutively, then its focus might change. But, as of now, any woman who has climbed the GS ladder to within sight of the top has done so by exhibiting the same ruthless strategies that are rewarded in her male counterparts. It is the GS corporate culture. So I think it would be very difficult indeed for a woman to be part of that culture for a number of years and still maintain clear ethical boundaries. How could she? She would have to become a split personality: ruthlessly playing the game by day and.... what? Maintaining ethics in her personal life, perhaps.
But lines blur with repetition and conditioning. When only risk is rewarded, when she is expected and told to "Man up" or "Grow a pair" and what that really means in this context is to prove that she can be as ruthless and risk-taking as her male peers, I don't see how that leads, over time, to kinder, gentler management.
Just my opinion, based on observation.
July 20, 2009 8:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
An exception to what I just said about referring to either men or women by the use of traditional use of "he" is the reference I made to personal life. Wall Street women do divorce with a frequency that is not at all surprising, given the hours and intensity with which they work. But they tend to re-marry a peer within their own or related industry, rather than searching for the fountain of youth.
And they don't usually hide their assets from their original family, but instead, pay gladly for their children's educations, etc.. --- perhaps because they usually still have custody. If that is a sexist generality, then so be it. It is based on observation and might be provable, statistically.
July 20, 2009 8:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just read an article -- I think at work -- that said that most firms run by female CEO's are more profitable and efficient. I wish I could remember where I read it...Crain's maybe? I'll try to find it tomorrow and cite it here.
July 19, 2009 10:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.mckinsey.com/locations/paris/home/womenmatter/pdfs/Women_matter_oct2007_english.pdf
Here is the study.
July 19, 2009 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once again we have a reason to want to rec comments. Nicely stated.
July 19, 2009 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, OG, but you said it all, much more succinctly:
"The personality type that craves power over others transcends gender, ethnicity, and every other background variation imaginable.
And Frank Herbert, author/originator of the never-ending "Dune" series, had one of his characters sum it up quite nicely: Power not only corrupts, it serves as a magnet for the corruptible."
July 19, 2009 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about the slutty vixens who dangle around hoping to lure the money from the males?
See? Hoary gender stereotyping is oh so vogue!
Until you understand that women are *no better* than men in business ethics, you won't be even close to solving the problem.
July 19, 2009 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rudeness, Clearthinker, will get you nowhere.
Looking at the time stamps of the comments, wwstaebler made her point well prior to your response. I asked (hopefully in a more congenial manner) the same general thing that you did - so your statement is unnecessary considering her answer.
Unless, of course, you prefer to discuss female "vixons" and their male counterparts - which is another conversation entirely.
July 19, 2009 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And hypocrisy won't get far here as well... at least among the honest people.
You are not the guardian of the site. I can respond to her point with as much aggression as she had when she made it.
What you don't seem to understand is how upsetting her comment is. Of course, many people here seem to think that invectives in one direction are more tolerable than in the other. That's the reason for bringing up vixens and the like. And you can see, how upsetting that comment was to you.
That's the point.
July 19, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting. Do you consider me dishonest? Her point was made with aggressive ideas - yours with aggression for the sake of the same. I don't begrudge you your opinion, or right to express yourself as you see fit - but I don't need to be a site guardian to recognize rudeness when I see it.
"What you don't seem to understand is how upsetting her comment is."
Followed shortly thereafter by:
"And you can see, how upsetting that comment was to you."
You see, Clearthinker, I was curious about her thoughts; so I asked for clarification and received it. Simple, eh?
July 19, 2009 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's just shameful that we aren't able to get a simple freakin surtax on the rich through this Congress to help pay for Healthcare reform. For crying out loud the overall tax rates are as low as they were (or lower) under Reagan! What the heck?!
I've given up on the GOP, so forget them. But really, who is the Democratic party currently representing? We truly are no longer the party of the less fortunate, the sick, the oppressed. It's very sad.
July 19, 2009 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Dems *never* were the party of the less fortunate. Ever.
FDR threw bones to the country in an attempt to save the republic because times were getting that bad. So he pulled together that coalition. JFK didn't want to deal with the South's issues until Wallace got hard line and forced him. RFK didn't know what poverty was until, what, 1966??? Talk about a guy who came late to the party!
LBJ was one of the few presidents in office that ever really thought in terms of the poor -- perhaps because he was immersed in them for so long. Bill Clinton got way more press, but LBJ was more aware of the poor than any president in the 20th Century.
Of course, if the less fortunate ever decided to really act, they could through out either party. But at the end of the day, they are too ignorant to wield their own power... which is just like the present power structure likes it.
July 19, 2009 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
FDR threw bones to the country in an attempt to save the republic because times were getting that bad. So he pulled together that coalition.
FDR threw bones because he was afraid of an uprising. The Socialists and Communists saw the largest growth during the late 20s and the 30s.
C
July 19, 2009 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I agree. He wanted to save the republic.
July 19, 2009 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who the heck got the ERA and the CRA through Congress?
Do you just disagree by default or is it a genetic thing?
July 20, 2009 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or maybe they're too busy, or just sick of a system that doesnt seem to change no matter who is in charge. It doesn't surprise me though that "ignorant" is the word you choose to describe your fellow citizens.
July 20, 2009 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB,
All due respect:
People like the Clintons and the Kennedy's are quite tight with this group of people. If you aren't ready to ask those people the same questions, you probably aren't ready to ask the Wall Street CEO's. Ditto Obama.
Please don't bring up public service and/or charity. Volunteers that work in homeless shelters are doing real public service -- slaving away in obscurity. Being a Senator isn't public service in the usual sense of the word -- it's comes with tremendous power and perqs.
And please don't talk of charitable contributions. The fact is that many of these people give lots of money away.
I needn't go into GOP personnel because I suspect you are already wise on those people.
July 19, 2009 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody EARNS one million dollars a year.
NOBODY EARNS IT.
As a matter of fact, NOBODY EARNS HALF THAT MUCH.
PERIOD.
We need a 95% tax rate for all 'earnings' over 500,000 period. end of story
And EVERYONE WHO 'EARNS' THAT MUCH SHOULD BE AUDITED
And all CEO's or management that earns these atrocious salaries should be audited, by the IRS and by and independent group reporting directly to the shareholders of that corp.
There is constant theftgoing undetected in this country.
HEADS SHOULD ROLL.
Fortunes should be confiscated. period. end of story.
July 19, 2009 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, you are wrong. People do earn it.
Perhaps if you were generating business and employing people you would understand that.
You are wrong, DD.
THE END
July 19, 2009 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I get rather annoyed with people who attribute some great moral agenda or compassion for the less fortunate to FDR, the Kennedys or even LBJ. Remember that Civil Rights legislation was only endorsed by LBJ to keep the whole country from breaking out in race riots. MLK clued him in on that.
C
July 19, 2009 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
He got the job done CM. LBJ got the job done.
He is personal hero to me, with all his scars and sins.
Lbj was a great man.
July 19, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps if you bothered to read history and see that LBJ was quite consistent in helping the poor since he got elected to the House, you'd better understand.
July 19, 2009 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
With all due respect, Clearthinker, there's no need to be so damn rude and condescending. Your point would come across much better if you could at least try to be civil while making it.
July 19, 2009 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB:
If you were consistent in your policing, your point would be better taken.
Sorry if you thought my response to you was rude... however, if we took a look at the premise of your blog -- that we can judge other people's lifestyles -- then one must wonder where it will end.
For example, do you have an HDTV? Why? Could you do with something more modest? Do you have pets? Why? Couldn't you do without them?
I've been in the circles to which you talk about. It's clear that most haven't. Just as you wouldn't want to be thought of as part of the "great unwashed", your view of the other class is, to say the least, stereotyped and inaccurate.
Some people are unethical. Some of those are CEOs. Many other CEOs work at positions that most people here simply couldn't handle for the stress.
Something to think about.
July 20, 2009 2:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
You've been in "the same circles" with CEO's? Congratulations. You're life experience is truly impressive. I tip my hat to you, sir.
July 20, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
It wasn't your response to me that got me incensed, Clearthinker, it was the way you were treating others.
July 20, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the HDTV was free. Long story. The cats I got from a shelter. Another long story.
Heh, at least I'm not overpopulating the earth with children, eh?
July 20, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
People with money have problems too. They're just different problems. :-)
Seriously, there are some "good ones". Or ones that are "more good than bad" at least. (I do not believe that any individual is entirely good or entirely bad, really. For that matter, many things or actions we think of as "good" or "bad" are both, or sometimes neither. But that's another bit of philosophy entirely.)
The Old Grouch cited my own personal core concern. I'm no CEO, but I am, shall we say, "fairly comfortable". But I see a slow-building, slow-burning anger that may well explode:
The (or at least "a") key to a healthy society is, I believe, a higher degree of mobility than those currently at the top are pushing for—and, lately, getting. Not only do we have a new Gilded Age that is worse than the original, we also have those working hard to arrange for family wealth to forge empires. The estate tax—the tax that certain groups have recast as a "death tax", when it is no such thing—might also be called an "anti-empire tax".Something else also worth thinking about here. Consider Microsoft and Bill Gates vs, say, HealthSouth and Richard Scrushy, or Countrywide and Angelo Mozilo. Gates' wealth was at least "more earned" than either of the other two. For all its faults, Microsoft produced (and still produces) something of value, and Gates drove much of that (business strategy wise at least: he had little to do with the actual software). The others created little, and perhaps really only destroyed things. All three were tremendously rewarded, though. This seems ... wrong.
July 19, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very good points, ct. And Gates gives millions to charities every year. Some of them do good, yes.
July 19, 2009 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ever read the story of the scorpion and the frog?
http://www.aesopfables.com/cgi/aesop1.cgi?4&TheScorpionandtheFrog
You're asking CEOs to change their nature - and that is a feat indeed!
Profile the Fortune 1000 CEOs, and I'd bet that the majority of them grew up in fairly privileged households, and those that didn't came from poor backgrounds and are "hungry."
The basic personality traits:
- they are relentless and want to win or get ahead
- they know their corporate business model inside and out (though as they rise in the power structure they are less involved in details)
- they are human salespeople for their corporate model - 24/7
- they have jumped over peers with lesser ambition, drive, people skills, education, connections, and most of all, quarter-by-quarter or annual results.
(simply put, they make money for their company than others, and have done it in every single role they've ever been in)
For this personality, there is never enough. There is always more to do, to earn, to win.
This personality type doesn't know Santosha from Soda.
There are exceptions, of course. But as a CEO rises from their starting position from the top, they get more tied to their company by stock options, bonuses, and perqs like the jets, lunches, club memberships, and after a while, they can't distinguish between "wants" and "needs." Throw on top of things the ability to manipulate politicians and elections, and there's the power too.
Sound addictive? Wanna be a CEO?
Those that say "no" for family reasons, or that you don't always need to be first in line, etc, and you're already eliminated from the pack racing up the corporate food chain.
Ask them how much is enough, and you'll get the deer in the headlights look!
July 19, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink