Why "palestine" has no right to exist
There are a number of reasons why "palestine" should never come into existence. The historical reality is that Jewish rights supercede arab and muslim rights to the land. This is merely a brief summary of the facts.
In the first place there never historically had been a sovereign state of palestine, it was a British territory and prior to that part of the Ottoman empire. For that matter most of the arab states, artificial creations which were carved from out of the defeated Ottoman empire after WW1 by the colonial powers, actually have no right to exist. Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and and all the gulf states.
Another fact to mention is that an arab state already was carved out of 76% of mandatory Palestine, and that of course is Jordan, originally named transjordan given as a gift to Emir Abdullah by the British.
The so-called "occupied" territories of Gaza and Judea and Samaria, known as the West Bank never belonged to the so-called "palestinians", Israel won them in a war of self-defense from Egypt and Jordan respectively. Furthermore both countries relinquished their claims to the territories, so who's territory is Israel occupying? The answer is they are not occupied, they are rightfully part of Israel, as is the Golan Heights which Israel also won from Syria in the same war in self-defense. Yet even Israel itself and its supporters have bought into this false narrative of Israel being an occupier.
Another point to be made is that the creation of a palestinian state will not only fail to bring peace, but will result in the creation of another terrorist entity. Why on Earth does the west want to create this terrorist state when we are supposed to be fighting a war against islamic terrorism? As it is, the hamas run PA is imposing sharia law on the population, Christians are being threatened and persecuted, resulting in many of them fleeing. When Israel surrendered Gaza in the summer of '05, rather than trying to build a viable state, the palestinians looted and destroyed the greenhouses that were given to them by wealthy and generous Jewish Americans who had bought them from the former Jewish residents of Gaza. And let's not leave out the fact that anarchy and chaos is the order of the day as hamas and fatah factions shoot and kill each other (a good thing as far as Israel is concerned), as well as various clans, tribes and militas controlling the streets. These people have not shown that they are capable whatsoever of running a peaceful, viable state. So why should they get one? If anyone in the Middle East deserves its own state, it is the Kurds, who have proven they can run a peaceful, viable state. But the international community isn't clamoring to create one for them.
And finally, a state of palestine would create a terrorist base for Syria and Iran, which already supplies the various terrorist entities with money, arms missiles and so forth.
For all of these reasons and more, there is no logical reason that a palestinian state should be created. As long as the arab muslim world remains mired in a medieval barbaric culture of hatred and death, Israel and the rest of the free world must make no concessions to it whatsoever.
I'm glad you've said this, because obviously, someone has to say it.
I look forward to your next post where you demonstrate conclusively that Palestinians are subhuman degenerates fit only for a 'final solution.'
To paraphrase John Lennon, "All you are saying, is give psychotic genocidal hatred a chance."
I may disagree with you, but I respect your need to fill this role.
May 18, 2007 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
A strawman argument. It would simply be a matter of transferring palestinians to other countries of their choice, even if it means encouraging their emmigration through monetary incentives. No one's advocating killing them.
May 25, 2007 1:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Furthermore both countries relinquished their claims to the territories, so who's territory is Israel occupying?
While you raise very interesting points (not that I agree with them but interesting nonetheless) I would point out that this assertion is incorrect. The reason for this is that both both Egypt and Jordan relinquished any claim to the territories with the pre-condition that they would become a new Palestinian state. In addition, the international community recognizes these as occupied territories under international law, hence Israel is occupying them. Apart from creating a Palestinian state, if Israel truly wanted to keep these territories, it would have to grant Israel citizenship to the Arab population within them. Given the fact that the Arab population's growth rate is higher than Israel's that would mean that in time, Israel would cease to be a Jewish state. That is one of the main reasons behind Olmert's, and Sharon before him, push to create a Palestinian state, to avoid said scenario.
May 18, 2007 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
But this is why our friend LEL666 must eventually come to embrace his final solution.
The only real question is whether he approaches it with regret or with enthusiasm.
May 18, 2007 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
"In addition, the international community recognizes these as occupied territories under international law, hence Israel is occupying them."
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You show your gullibilty here. In fact Israel's possession of these territories is entirely lawful.
Read the following:
http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/reports/international_law.pdf
The reason the international community takes this view has to do with the need for arab oil and fear of terrorism. It's in most nations self-enlightened interests to curry favor with the arabs. No one depends on Israel for its economy or energy needs. Six million Israeli Jews are outnumbered by a billion muslims. Is it surprising that most of the world would take the arab side?
May 25, 2007 1:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
So? Even if Israel's occupation of the territories was lawful, it would still be occupation. The Allies occupied Germany and Japan at the end of WWII, and no one says that wasn't lawful.
May 25, 2007 7:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me see if I can follow LEL66's logic here.
I am a palestinain (small "p") by virtue of the fact that my family of goat herders has lived in this valley for more than a thousand years, ok?
Suddenly, the victorious Allies declare me a resident of a political unit called the Palestine Mandate, then the newly arrived Jewish terrorists arrive and shoot all my goats, thus establishing their "right" to the land.
Am I missing something here?
May 18, 2007 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fine, Israel annexes the territory, it is no longer "occupied." Do the Palestinians get to vote in Israeli elections?
May 18, 2007 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
LEL said:
Why do you feel any of the above should be criteria upon which the issue of Palestinian statehood ought to hinge? Is it because the Bible refers to the "nation of Israel," and that these criteria will give Israel an advantage in the argument? But the "nation" that was Israel 2,000+ years ago was not at all a nation in the modern sense; it was primarily a religious entity. Are you saying that the Jews have a greater religious right to the land than the Muslims (or Christians for that matter) for whom it is also holy? Why should the rest of the world accept an injustice perpetrated against the Palestinians with a justification based on the ancient religious writings of the Israelis? Why should we use the criteria of who was there first, rather than who was there longest?
And who exactly is it anyway who should decide the criteria for the establishment of a Palestinian state? Should it be those who covet the same land? Your poorly supported claim that Jewish rights should supercede Jewish ones appears to simply be a case of wishful thinking on your part.
I notice that many of the arguments posed by the Israelicists hinge on arguments that sound logical at first, but upon closer inspection turn out to be based upon what are illogical and/or ethnocentric claims. The rest of this piece is riddled with equally non-sensical misinformation, racist slurs, and propaganda. I'm just astonished that there are four members of TPM Cafe who've actually recommended it. What were they thinking?
Know your enemy well, for in the end that is who you become. ~~Old Chinese Proverb
May 18, 2007 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as the arab muslim world remains mired in a medieval barbaric culture of hatred and death
Just to clarify, are ALL Arab Muslims mired in a barbaric culture of hatred and death, or just all the Palestinians?
"Thank God George Bush is our president." -Rudy Giuliani
May 18, 2007 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, fine - the Palestinians don't have a right to a separate state. Granting that for the sake of argument, since it's also pretty clear that no other state will have them, Israel ought to formally incorporate the occupied territories and grant citizenship to all Palestinians. Or is your argument that not only do they not have the right to a state, but they deserve to be stateless?
May 29, 2007 7:21 AM | Reply | Permalink