You and I have been posting about these issues for years. Few other current contributers to the Cafe have been so intensely focused on our areas of interest.....so it's understandable that we use different lenses.

I hope it isn't true about Hillary as well. But, I've learned to "trust" TPMCafe commenters such as Emet18/aipacmember/apacmember when "they" say that for them and their "friends", Obama's appointments to the State Dept and National Security Council are the top priorities.

(What I first took to be overblown hyperbole was echoed by other non-anon sources.....)

During the primary, there was no grumbling at all from the usual suspects about any of Hillary's stable of FP advisors......NONE. The dogs did not bark.

OTOH, Obama's advisor list was raked over and those who had unacceptable notions were attacked then subsequently sidelined by the campaign.

I knew there would be brawls over our FP but unfortunately, this and other signals bode more ill than even cynical I had anticipated.

I think you've hit on something here as Seaton's professional life is centered around writing for a newspaper. His livelyhood depends on explaining America and Americans to an audience that has little experience by which to judge the accuracy of his portrayals.

A one-way street lined by cheering admirers is his comfort zone.

Israeli politicians and commenters from the hardliner right such as Avigdor Lieberman say awful stuff about Arabs on a regular basis.

If there is one word that can characterize the "tone" of discourse in Israel, I'd have to say that "blunt" about covers it. This also includes Israeli Jews making extremely un-PC comments about eachother as a matter of course.

Godwin's law does not apply in Israel.

We don't need more of the people with allegiance to stale paradigms that no longer apply. This is a problem that goes beyond functionaries allied with political parties and/or administrations. The whole bureuacratic apparatus of think tanks, consultants and NGOs are filled with folks who cling to distorted policies and theories that have been proved to be badly out of step with reality.

The folks who favor this potential appointment are not evaluating it from a perspective that includes the impact on our foreign policies.

They're looking at it more from a political or politiking POV.

The media is pushing hard for Hillary to assume this post; usually it's the reporters who are completely ignorant of what goes on in the wider world beyond DC and NY. International affairs are not their cuppa and it's all about atmospherics for them.

What's weird is the new CW that Hillary is a beloved influential figure on the world stage, surpassing even Bill in that arena. Nevermind that foreign governments, with the possible exception of Israel if Bibi comes back, are led by people without connections to the Clinton era.

Another common theme is that Hillary would not be able to assume a leadership role in the Health Care push because of Ted Kennedy's return to the Senate in January. I have no idea whether or not he would he would team up with her...Given his health complications, it seems unlikely that he would eschew working with the Senator who has more power now than ever before to bring her #1 issue to fruition.

Strange days.

"Second, informed sources make the point that some of the more prominent Hillary Clinton supporters who may be on these lists should be seen as evidence of Obama's gratitude for her, and their, support after the primaries."

Does this sound like the Obama camp?

and:

"Dick Holbrooke has been fighting for his life ever since Hillary Clinton's campaign went down in flames, but our information consistently maintains he went with her. Operative quote from a very very senior member of Obama's inner circle says he would personally throw his body into the path of a Holbrooke nomination."

er.......okay..........

BTW. I'll guess that the vvsm is Tony Lake.

Scrubbing the Cafe of Reed's contributions? I know he's sworn to silence but......

Almost as pathetic as your Ricky Riccardo shirt.

;>}

David Seaton mournfully explains why he will no longer permit comments on his blogs:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/david_seaton/2008/11/disabling-comments.php

Totally predictable you are, viejo.

Just won't bother with you unless I see you around on other peoples' threads.

Bueno bye now.

PS. I am so rec'ing this and spreading the word....

;>}

You and I are on the same page. It doesn't make sense.

Joshua Landis (Syria Comment) is complaining the MSM is only covering this story on teh innerwebs.

Better late than never. Obama was cc'd on the original complaint letter. Do you suppose he got to read it himself?

As that troublemaker Phil Weiss asks:

"Who's Gonna Wag the Obama Dog?

From an email from the Obama transition team (Check out who's getting phone-time):

Vice President-elect Biden spoke via telephone this week with several world leaders and expressed his thanks and appreciation for their congratulations on the election.

On Monday, November 10th, the Vice President-elect spoke with:

· Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni
· Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak
· Israeli Likud Leader Binyamin (Bibi) Netanyahu
· Polish President Lech Kaczynski
· British Prime Minister Gordon Brown
· Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair
· Afghan President Hamid Karzai

On Tuesday, November 11th, the Vice President-elect spoke with:
· King Abdullah of Jordan"
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/11/whos-gonna-wag-the-obama-dog.html#more

Where's Joe's friend Misha? One would think that Saakashvili would be on that list.

Things sure are getting interesting in ObamaFPland.

"George Stephanopoulos reported Clinton's name being in the mix last week on Good Morning America"

?

She IS more hawkish than Obama despite what you think, aa. Have you forgotten the primary?

Hillary was always the top Dem presidential choice of Haaretz' Shmuel Rosner's panel of Israeli experts as well as the top choice of Israelis polled during the primary. They even picked her over John McCain, fer chrissakes. They weren't favoring Hillary because of her gender....

As soon as she was out of the game...McCain became the Israelis #1 pick, despite what MJ claimed...;>}

Just what we need, more of the SO stupid S that already has our influence circling around the toilet bowl in the ME and SW Asia.

Yeah, let's go for the full flush.

Two former Clinton folks are named to deal with the DoS. One of them, Wendy R Sherman signed a letter with other ex FP/diplo types endorsing Hillary's FP experience. Sherman also worked for Madeline Albright's consulting firm. I would bet that Albright could be another source for Andrea Mitchell who would, of course, know her well.

The other former Clintonite on the DoS T-team is Tom Donilon who heads up the effort. His wife is rumored to become Jill Biden's CoS.

It wasn't the Obama campaign that leaked the news about Rahm Emmanuel either, it's not their MO.

BTW, the Obama spokeswoman in charge of transition tidbits has already had to beat back a rumor about Warren Christopher being included.

Oddly, TPMCafe contributor Amitai Etzioni suggested Hillary for this very position back in Feb.

Perhaps it's because I only used the label "obamabots" and the like in an ironically self-referential way rather than as a term to describe all of Obama's supporters.

;>}

This is a reversion to the previous state of affairs.

Hopefully, it will be rectified.

PS. Like the new features. Kudos.

Putting Hillary Clinton in that position would reflect weakness and signal that our FP would still be in the hands of the ME hawks.

"There's talk, indeed, that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) may now be under consideration for the post. Her office referred any questions to the Obama transition; Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor declined to comment.

The pick of the former presidential contender and Senate Armed Services Committee member would go a long way toward healing any remaining divisions within the Democratic Party after the divisive primaries. Also, Clinton has long been known for her work on international women's issues and human rights. The former first lady could also enhance Obama's efforts to restore U.S. standing amongst allies worldwide."
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/11/13/hillary_clinton_secretary_of_s.html?hpid=topnews

Steve Clemons posted something about this several days ago ( I didn't see it) and quickly disappeared his post according to one of his commenters, POA.

??????

No fucking way..................

What a disasterous choice this would be. Want more of the SOS in the ME? Put Israel's favorite Democrat in this position.

Do you understand that a high-level dem senate source does NOT equal a Dem Senator?

Are you attempting to be a Bob Somerby doppleganger?

You need to go to school and learn how to do this stuff better. Here's a hint, details do matter and you sabotage your own efforts because of sloppy work.

BTW... the fantasy that Bill would never raise a finger to help Lieberman because of Joe's crap re Lewinsky is BS sold to those with ADD. Bill went to CT to support Holy Joe in his election battle w/ Lamont and supported his stance on Iraq. McCain's horrid joke about ugly Chelsea was much worse and even THAT atrocity was forgiven for the sake of political collegiality or whatever.

And no, the Clintons are not the only politicians who play these games as our Dem Senators collectively kissing Joe's ass cleary demonstrates.

You want to bash Josh about the Clintonian phone calls in Lieberman's defense? Fine. Focus on the fact that, AFAIK, Josh has ignored the disavowal from Bill's spokesman even though as he linked to the HuffPo article that updated their own story with Matt McKenna's denial.

re Bibi, I found the following from Arutz Sheva's "News Briefs" kind of amusing:

"Israeli Politicians Inspired by Obama?

(IsraelNN.com) Israeli politicians may be taking inspiration for their campaign strategies from United States President-Elect Barack Obama, analysts say. On Tuesday, activists supporting mayoral candidate Dov Tzur in the city of Rishon L'Tzion held signs saying, “Yes We Can,” a slogan associated with Obama.

Some analysts said Tuesday that Likud head Binyamin Netanyahu was using Obama's style as well. Netanyahu's new web page was created in the same colors and with the same basic design as Obama's pre-elections site was, and has similar content."

Thanks for your replies.

I'm very impressed that the Pankisi has been turned into a tourist attraction in such a short period of time! Are there B&B's and/or hostels set up for those who wish to explore the terrain on foot and interact with the colorful locals? No more a smugglers/kidnappers/assassins/terrorist paradise, eh?

BTW. It wasn't the actions of Aspect Consulting in regards to promoting Georgian NATO aspirations that amused me. It was their lame efforts to shape the narrative of plucky Saakashvili's injured innocence. Come on. You can admit they blew it with claims that Russian jets were bombing the hell out of Tbilisi and the like.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4518254.ece

The accident or whatever at the Turkish gate was most fortuituous in it's timing as another accident involving the Georgian leg of the pipeline during hostilities could have been dangerous if it were running at capacity. One need not be an "expert" to understand that as we certainly saw the results of countless similiar accidents in northern Iraq.

Another question or two or.....

Does Tbilisi have easier winters now in terms of reliable and consistant supplies of electicity and other energy resources?

What do you think of the Russian suggestion that the Finns mediate between Georgia and themselves?

What do you think of Turkish efforts to form a regional coalition consisting of themselves, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and Russia ie the establishment of the "Caucasus Stability and Cooperation Platform" ?

(There has been movement of regional actors in the ME eschewing US sponsorship/guidance in addressing local problems that has shown some success.)

kulio.

Regardless of the fact that you registered @ TPM solely in order to toss spitballs at Tom Hayden, I hope you stick around and participate in discussions about the Caucasus, etc.

Several questions for you if you don't mind.

Why was the BTC pipeline shut down two days in advance of the attacks? In order to clear the line of volatiles, so to speak? Do you know which Belgian PR firm was in place to provide the foreign media with official disinfo and inspiring tableaus?
Is the Pankisi gorge still no mans land?

You are picking at nits that have nothing to do with the truth that this crisis was engineered by Saakashvili and co?, despite the fact that he was warned not to take on Putin it by both the Bush administration and his Israeli advisors.

The Israeli media, BTW, was the first to report on the pre-planned nature of the incident. As well they should have as Israeli involvement in Georgia went up to the highest levels of the Georgian government. They were quick to sketch out the degree of Israeli activities in Georgia; and in particular their scaling back and disavowal of any involvement/culpability for Misha's ill-conceived adventure.

When it came to Israel's relationship with Russia, her pragmatism trumped the lesser national interests in Georgian contracts for Israeli armaments, advice, training, etc.

Your strawman patrol deployed in order to discredit a messenger shooting yet another arrow into Saakashvili's pincusioned credibility does nothing to divert from the essential truth of his reckless behavior. It's one thing to ignore the advice of the US State Dept, it's quite another to poopoo the unambiguous warnings of retired IDF commanders, trainers, Israeli security specialists and liasons.

Given that Saaka's support is based on the Georgians' collective belief that Russia was at fault, it's imperative that the fiction continue be sold in order to prop up his shaky grasp on power:

"A September poll conducted by the U.S.-based, government-funded International Republican Institute indicated support for Saakashvili and his government was higher than before the war. A majority of those polled _ 52 percent _ said that they would vote for Saakashvili if elections were held the following Sunday. That figure was up from 34 percent in February.

Ana Jelenkovic, an analyst at The Eurasia Group, said the numbers likely point less to Saakashvili's popularity than to the opposition's failure to present a coherent, attractive message.

"There's ample room for a political opposition, but that political space simply hasn't been filled," she said.

The poll showed that most Georgians support Saakashvili's main defense of the war: that Russia started it.

According to the survey, 84 percent of Georgians believe that 'Georgia reacted to Russian military aggression in South Ossetia,' compared with 9 percent who said that Georgia started the war."
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=105&pid=0&sid=1513120&page=1

As you said, kulio, the wheels haven't come off the bus yet. But if the tide of Georgian public opinion turns to the sure knowledge that their leader endangered their country, it won't be long before Georgians overturn it themselves and sack the erratic driver.

The next time, they won't need as much help from foreigners and outside interests.

Be that as it may, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibiliy that some neocons behaving badly could have done yet another bit of ignorant strategerizing involving military assets. It's their MO.

I noted with interest that a highly aggrieved heads-up about Joe Biden ignoring the DoD and jumping the gun to race to Tbilisi was published in the Weekly Standard. Lindsay Graham and Lieberman were following orders and holding back. Naturally, Biden was suspected of shining up his VP FP creds.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/08/biden_to_tbilisi.asp

Why the Weekly Standard should be the first to know all about Biden's plans is curious, que no? Did Saaka snitch? What did he and Biden chat about in Milwaukee during their two hour visit at the Pfister Hotel on September 26?

Scroll down for the pool report which includes:...."(Saakashvili mumbles and trails off)." and other things of interest:
http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/26/ap-error-biden-does-in-fact-allow-press-into-meeting/

Oh well. It's actually a good lesson for Obama regarding conflicting narratives when it comes to any given US FP issue. Although Obama is not as maleable as some would prefer, we shall see if he can correct course.

Speaking of the Department of "moist and trusting comments"; International division, I ran across this blog from Tel Aviv that features the reactions of Israel's media to Obama's election.

http://lisagoldman.net/2008/11/10/a-view-on-obama-from-tel-aviv/

Lisa Goldman presents the front pages from several Israel's Hebrew publications. She includes my personal favorite example that features two veteran members of the commentariat from Israel's Channel 10:

"Raviv Druker and Ofer Shelach put together a 12-minute piece on Obama’s victory for their Friday night news magazine show. It’s called “the dream that became reality,” and you can watch it here in streaming video. Druker introduces the piece by announcing in mock-amazement that he nearly had a car accident upon hearing that Shelach, supposedly a tough, seasoned reporter, had leaked a few tears while watching Obama’s election-night speech."

Moist!

;>}