Attack on Zelaya: toxic gas or hot air?
Another day another murder attempt on Honduras' Manuel Zelaya. The embassy in which he is sheltered was attacked with potentially deadly gas ... or was it? Catholic priest Andrés Tamayo who is with Zelaya and his supporters in the Brazilian embassy issued several impassioned statements. He was quoted thus in Honduran news outlet Teimpo:
In the Mexican Nuestro Pais (h/t neoboho) Tamayo didn't mention the helicopter or the truck. But interestingly, the story picks up an emerging theme in recent Zelaya assertions: Israel is behind everything.
According to OSHA, the ACGIH has assigned hydrogen cyanide a ceiling limit value of 4.7 ppm (5 mg/m(3)), which should not be exceeded during any part of the working exposure. The ACGIH limit is based on the risk of acute poisoning. 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes (181 after 10). That's some pretty toxic stuff - delivered by helicopter and in a big-ole water truck. Amazing nobody from the Honduran military bothered to wear protective gear! Not to mention the UN guys who showed up to inspect the place.
Are we really supposed to believe that a medical professional goes to a compound where individuals are exhibiting the symptoms described and didn't send them immediately to the hospital? Bear in mind this is within 2 hours of the supposed gas attack - so even if the symptoms subsided, it would be INCREDIBLE not to send the people who complained of problems to the hospital to make sure they were OK. According to the Teimpo article linked above, there were ambulances standing by.
The attribution to HCN just makes this even more unbelievably incredible. WikiPedia indicates The United States standard cyanide antidote kit first uses a small inhaled dose of amyl nitrite, followed by intravenous sodium nitrite, followed by intravenous sodium thiosulfate. Or you could just give 'em some milk - the treatment indicated by Tamayo. Wiki does mention different countries have different methods, I guess Honduras a bit more holistic than we in the states.
Another intreaguing question: why isn't anyone but Zelaya and his supporters echoing these assertions? Brazil has personnel in the compound - and their diplomats had the floor at a UN security council meeting specifically addressing issues at the embassy. Zelaya has alleged snipers were firing into the embassy windows, mind-altering death rays and gas attacks (before this one). Yet Brazil is insisting on a call for uninterrupted phone service? And what about the UN guys who inspected the compound - they didn't say anything either. Very odd. Very odd indeed.
One other factor to consider is that the compound is under scrutiny 24/7 by journalists. They are kept a few blocks away, but they see everything that comes and goes. If people were removed in ambulances, it would be reported. Their presence also makes it HIGHLY unlikely that an LRAD-X device (which is clearly audible at 300 yards) has been employed in the vicinity of the embassy since the big showdown on Tuesday.
The idea has been offered that Zelaya's assertions are likely true because nothing could possibly be in need of cleaning in the environs of the Brazilian embassy.
All that trash didn't pick itself up. And there is likely more trash this evening. Despite what the Zelaya propaganda machine is trying to project, the police are not blocking peaceful demonstrations. Earlier today, a rally of 6,000 peaceful pro-Zelaya demonstrators showed their support in a march passing the Brazilian embassy. So there may be more cleanup to come..
It is truly impossible for we in the United States to *really* know what's going on in Honduras. What we know for certain is that two sides are battling and seeking whatever advantage they can find. A key component of this is a propaganda war - the misinformation campaign is brutal right now. It is likely best not to take the word of either the interim government or Manuel Zelaya's team without official confirmation through more credible sources (such as Brazilian diplomats who's embassy is at the center of conflict - and who are likely to defend their sovereign territory).
I'm not professing to know for sure, but as the story sits right now something isn't adding up.
"First came a helicopter and then a tank, which was a sign of a company, but was handled by soldiers," said Tamayo, who also suffered the effects of chemicals.
The priest, who observed when discharging chemicals, said a hundred citizens, who are in the building, most presented problems, such as dizziness, headaches, stomach and throat, vomiting and bleeding.
 | Truck allegedly delivering toxic gas to be used against Zelaya. Enough HCN to kill an army ... the army doesn't seem too nervous. (source: Teimpo.hn) |
In the Mexican Nuestro Pais (h/t neoboho) Tamayo didn't mention the helicopter or the truck. But interestingly, the story picks up an emerging theme in recent Zelaya assertions: Israel is behind everything.
Military Armed Forces of Honduras, with the logistical support of Israel advisers, gases released from neighboring homes into the interior of the Brazilian Embassy in Tegucigalpa, causing vomiting of blood to the refugees in the embassy.
[...]He said that "people are vomiting blood, are closed to the airways, and cause other serious problems of intoxication" and therefore called on all nations "to stop this barbarism."
Zelaya also made a statement that was carried by several sources including Teimpo:
"They spread a toxic gas that the military used to evacuate people, here are sixty people all trying to breathe in the yard," said the president, who said he is using a gas mask and although it has a dry throat .
"There are people vomiting and urinating blood," said Zelaya.
Physicians were called to the scene including former
Health Minister, Marco Rosa and Zelaya's personal physician Mark Rhodes. According to Teimpo:
Former Health Minister, Marco Rosa, confirmed a few minutes inside the Embassy of Brazil there are at least 25 to 30 people poisoned with some kind of gas.
Indicated, by means of television, outside the building, those affected with vomiting, headache, diarrhea and even nosebleeds
[...]
Initially, Rosa said he did not know if it was some kind of food or gas, but soon after confirmed that from inside it confirmed that they have found a hose through which the gas would be infiltrating.
So there's a group of people pissing/vomiting blood; Rosa finds a hose; a diagnosis is made; toxic gas! Let's pause for a moment and run down the symptoms that eyewitness sources within Zelaya's media team have reported:
-Vomiting
-Vomiting Blood
-Urinating Blood
-Dizziness
-Headaches
-Sore Throat
-Diarrhea
-Nosebleeds
Those conditions are no joke! Anything plus blood = not good. And don't forget, according to Tamayo, this attack began with gas delivered from a helicopter. Sure was lucky Zelaya had a gas mask ....
 | Manuel Zelaya displays the "gas mask" that saved him. (source: Teimpo.hn) |
Soon thereafter, the Zelaya media team held a press conference (h/t neoboho) identifying the gas:
Zelaya and his aides said at a news conference that a local public health specialist they identified as Dr. Mauricio Castellano took air samples near the embassy after the attack and determined that the gas contained HCN, an abbreviation for hydrogen cyanide. HCN can cause dryness and burning of the throat, shortness of breath, convulsion, coma and cardiovascular collapse.Now why does hydrogen cyanide sound familiar again .... OH YEAH.
Its most infamous application was the use of hydrogen cyanide by the Nazi regime in Germany for mass murder in some gas chambers during the Holocaust.So, Zelaya and his camp are alleging that the assault on the embassy was planned by Israeli advisers employing chemicals most infamously used to mass-murder innocent Jews. Way too cute.
According to OSHA, the ACGIH has assigned hydrogen cyanide a ceiling limit value of 4.7 ppm (5 mg/m(3)), which should not be exceeded during any part of the working exposure. The ACGIH limit is based on the risk of acute poisoning. 270 ppm is fatal after 6 to 8 minutes (181 after 10). That's some pretty toxic stuff - delivered by helicopter and in a big-ole water truck. Amazing nobody from the Honduran military bothered to wear protective gear! Not to mention the UN guys who showed up to inspect the place.
 | UN
Guys looking pretty breezy for inspecting a embassy that has just been
attacked with a toxic gas that may likely still linger in the air and
on surfaces. Are they usually so careless if they think a situation
may be toxic? (source: laprensa.hn) |
Are we really supposed to believe that a medical professional goes to a compound where individuals are exhibiting the symptoms described and didn't send them immediately to the hospital? Bear in mind this is within 2 hours of the supposed gas attack - so even if the symptoms subsided, it would be INCREDIBLE not to send the people who complained of problems to the hospital to make sure they were OK. According to the Teimpo article linked above, there were ambulances standing by.
The attribution to HCN just makes this even more unbelievably incredible. WikiPedia indicates The United States standard cyanide antidote kit first uses a small inhaled dose of amyl nitrite, followed by intravenous sodium nitrite, followed by intravenous sodium thiosulfate. Or you could just give 'em some milk - the treatment indicated by Tamayo. Wiki does mention different countries have different methods, I guess Honduras a bit more holistic than we in the states.
Another intreaguing question: why isn't anyone but Zelaya and his supporters echoing these assertions? Brazil has personnel in the compound - and their diplomats had the floor at a UN security council meeting specifically addressing issues at the embassy. Zelaya has alleged snipers were firing into the embassy windows, mind-altering death rays and gas attacks (before this one). Yet Brazil is insisting on a call for uninterrupted phone service? And what about the UN guys who inspected the compound - they didn't say anything either. Very odd. Very odd indeed.
One other factor to consider is that the compound is under scrutiny 24/7 by journalists. They are kept a few blocks away, but they see everything that comes and goes. If people were removed in ambulances, it would be reported. Their presence also makes it HIGHLY unlikely that an LRAD-X device (which is clearly audible at 300 yards) has been employed in the vicinity of the embassy since the big showdown on Tuesday.
The idea has been offered that Zelaya's assertions are likely true because nothing could possibly be in need of cleaning in the environs of the Brazilian embassy.
 | The road in front of the Embassy on Tuesday. (there were curfews until Thursday). (src: laprensa.hn) |
 | The same area shown shortly after the "gassing" (src: elHaroldo.hn) |
All that trash didn't pick itself up. And there is likely more trash this evening. Despite what the Zelaya propaganda machine is trying to project, the police are not blocking peaceful demonstrations. Earlier today, a rally of 6,000 peaceful pro-Zelaya demonstrators showed their support in a march passing the Brazilian embassy. So there may be more cleanup to come..
It is truly impossible for we in the United States to *really* know what's going on in Honduras. What we know for certain is that two sides are battling and seeking whatever advantage they can find. A key component of this is a propaganda war - the misinformation campaign is brutal right now. It is likely best not to take the word of either the interim government or Manuel Zelaya's team without official confirmation through more credible sources (such as Brazilian diplomats who's embassy is at the center of conflict - and who are likely to defend their sovereign territory).
I'm not professing to know for sure, but as the story sits right now something isn't adding up.
Advertisement
I tried your link to the 6K protesters in front of embassy today - couldn't find the story. Yesterday the military wouldn't even let the white-shirts demonstrators nearer than one block to the embassy. But there was one story there on the UN team that visited the embassy late yesterday. They confirmed the possibility of a gas attack.
Your skepticism is good, Kgb. Now how about your take on Michelleti's explanation that the "gas" was from the cleaning supplies they used in the street (inadvertently confessing that there was gas)? La Palmira is an upscale neighborhood. Do you think they have street sweepers?
September 26, 2009 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quote from the UN folks:
I think it's more correct to say the UN confirmed that they were shown pictures by Zelaya depicting unknown devices that may or may not have been used to emit gas. If the pictures in question are of that thing with a bag on the pole they are showing over on Narcosphere, that's pretty much debunked as a humidifier. The UN also indicated that people "reported" symptoms - but do not say that they observed these symptoms personally. 24 hours later Zelaya is pleased to announce that everyone has recovered fully and is in tip-top condition.
My bad on the 6K people link ... fixed now.
I'm not sure about what you mean by the "do you think they have street sweepers?" question. Usually all municipal cleaning equipment is run by a central district (and news reports indicate this is the case in Honduras) - I don't think individual neighborhoods have their own equipment. If your implication is that a street-sweeper truck would be sufficient to clean up after a riot, I think it is safe to believe (and the pictures indicate) that it might me quite useful to have portable equipment that can move off of the streets. These would require a mobile source of water. The upscale nature of the neighborhood makes it rather more likely that the government would devote extra resources to keeping it looking good for the wealthy residents IMO.
While running a commercial cleaning business out of Las Vegas from '92-'96, I employed several water-based cleaning systems that create quite a lot of vapor that could be characterized as "gas" (based on Tamayo's narrative we are honestly discussing "vapor", not "gas" anyhow). I'm not putting much stock in the inadvertent "admission" that gas was generated ... it seems a rather precise parsing of the English language considering we're dealing with translated Spanish here. Absent some other factor, I find that alone unconvincing.
You have to admit, that street sure does look pretty spic-n-span ... and it was a mess after the conflict.
(BTW:I didn't use a single quote in this post from Michiletti's government - because I don't think their word can be trusted either.)
September 26, 2009 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The street in front of the embassy is blocked, kgb. Here's a group of photos showing the Brazilian staff going through the red tape of getting in to relieve the staffers who have been there since Monday (and confirmed the gas claims).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9102156@N03/sets/72157622455911580/
BTW, this harassment of embassy officials is exactly what the UN Security Council forbade.
September 27, 2009 1:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
One other note ... there is another account of the march that was just posted today (several hours after I wrote this) that seems to imply demonstrators marched to the police/military line at the embassy ... so the Pro-Zelaya marchers very well could have been limited to the same area as the pro-government marchers you describe.
But the real point of the observation still stands: until they start burning shit, the government seems to be letting pro-Zelaya Hondurans express themselves as well. I used the "cleaning" issue as a lazy device to hang the larger point on to avoid another 2 paragraphs of setup and bring the idea into context with the post's main topic.
Demonstrations are an issue with significant nuance involving SERIOUS hardball tactics by both sides; I don't mean to imply there is no government repression. But there is also significant peaceful pro-Zelaya activity going on (I think there were actually 6 or more peaceful demonstrations yesterday of various flavors, but don't want to source it). That's important to acknowledge both by people who view these demonstrators as 100% violent and by people who view the government as 100% repressive.
September 26, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
You haven't been paying attention. The Golpistas and the Armed Forces and the National Police have been inconsistent with their repression since June 28. The resistance never knows when they will attack, which makes everyone edgy. There is no relationship between the behavior of the protesters and the behavior of the cops.
September 27, 2009 2:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also, Kgb, that photo of the tank truck. La Tribuna doesn't caption the photo - the caption is yours. Nice touch of agit-prop there. It's a water truck, and as we know hosing down protesters is a daily exercise in Honduras. We don't even know if the photo was taken anywhere near the Brazilian embassy.
Hey, I'm getting inspired by your skepticism :-)
BTW. Did you get my links to the latest on the constitutional issues front? I thought you would dive right into that one.
September 26, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
The water truck image is from Teimpo. It is the illustration for an article entitled(translated obviously)"Father Tamayo: From a helicopter and a tank fired gases the embassy". If you want to challenge the accuracy of the illustration, you should take it up with Teimpo. They aren't usually criticized for agit-prop, in this case I deferred to their editorial choice.
One thing I will note is that the water-cannon trucks used against the protesters look NOTHING like the vehicle pictured by Teimpo as an illustration to Tamayo's complaints.
Skepticism is always good.
September 26, 2009 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a water truck, kgb. Looks like an Izuzu ELF, as a matter of fact. You tagged it as a HCN delivery system, with considerable snark. So how does that function in, say, a discursive analysis exercise? You use it to cast doubt on the credibility of the witness, Tamayo. To mock him, to trick your readers into thinking he is lying. Tribuna could have obtained the photo from anywhere in Honduras - it could be a stock photo. But YOU use it to make a big joke of the whole incident, and then guffaw with your buddy Roots about it. That's what I mean by agit-prop.
September 27, 2009 1:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Guilty as charged on the snark. But I'm not the one that said the substance was HCN at a press conference. If Tomayo's statement was true, and the doctor's statement was also true, the only possible conclusion is that the truck dispersing the gas/vapor was filled with a CHN-based liquid. That seems absurd to me, so indeed I made it into a bit of a joke.
That truck was pictured along with the article in which they reported Tomayo's assertions gas was being dispersed from a truck. Teimpo has quite a few pictures obviously from the embassy during this time period, so clearly they had a photographer in the area. I still honestly believe that Teimpo provided a legitimate picture. I've never seen them just grab a random stock photo - with the exception of politician PR head shots - it's kind of amazing they would start now just to make this guy look bad. They have been generally pro-Zelaya. Your disagreement on this point is noted.
September 27, 2009 6:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus, there is so much here to digest KGB. You and Neohoho should have a news line or something. This is complicate shite....
All I can say is that somethin is happenin here and I sure the hell do not know what it is.
There is one thing for sure. The age of hidden menaces is surely gone. I mean, pictures will be taken and both sides (or all seven sides or whatever) will be heard.
Now the problem is to sieve through the muck in order to get at the true goings on.
September 26, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I can say is that somethin is happenin here and I sure the hell do not know what it is.
Whatever it is, it appears rather bigger than just Honduras. Some folks react negatively when you mention it, but Chavez has had his fingers in this every step of the way: from helping cultivate the groups making up the "resistance" to printing the ballots for Zelaya's referendum to financing his return and handling all the logistics. He's the elephant in the room. Without his interference, for better or worse, Honduras would be at peace right now.
September 26, 2009 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is a blockquote missing there ... should be around the first sentence.
September 26, 2009 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, that's your whole problem, IMO. You are viewing this matter through the lens of a conspiracy theory. Your claim that Chavez is somehow directing the resistance is absurd, and you cannot product a shred of evidence to support it. You need one of those tin-foil hats...great for "critical thinking" you know.
September 27, 2009 2:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Searching in Spanish takes me FOREVER (if I'm successful at all) ... I'll try and find the links r.e. Chavez being the one who produced the referendum ballots if you really challenge that this occurred. But it is indeed documented.
According to the charge d'affaires of the Embassy of Venezuela in El Salvador, Vladimir Ruiz:
According to Chavez himself:
In light of official confirmation from Venezuela that they paid for the plane, and Chavez bragging he initiated the deception personally - the Brazilian sources that say Chavez provided logistics and gave the advise to select their embassy seem superfluous. Chavez was clearly instrumental in Zelaya's return on Monday.
That seems pretty good evidence to me that for BETTER-OR-WORSE, Chavez has been instrumental in the "resistance" since it's inception. If he wasn't involved in this, there wouldn't be people fighting in the streets of Honduras today.
September 27, 2009 5:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Insane Jew-hating wannabe dictator hides in embassy, make ludicrous claims...
Just another day in sunny Honduras!
But really...
Hydrogen cyanide (commonly used for executions in American gas-chambers) is released from a helicopter in the middle of a major city, and nobody but an insane Jew-hating wannabee dictator and his cronies feel the pain!
It sounds like divine justice to me.
September 26, 2009 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...makes..."
September 26, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good job! You picked right up on my intentional "agit-prop" ... I thought the effort had been wasted.
The Honduran Zelaya-gas does seem to have an uncanny targeting ability, no?
September 26, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently those Brazilians are immune to everything... mind-rays, sonic beams, cyanide, and probably H1N1 flu... because no matter what the invisible Israeli mercenaries pour into the Brazilian embassy, it only hits Zelaya and his buddies.
Meanwhile, now that I'm thinking about the bossa nova, I might as well link to this amazing video of a Japanese singer who sounds like Astrud Gilberto! No kidding!
Lisa Ono!
This is probably even something that you and I and neoboho can agree about!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dfG6BM75uY
September 27, 2009 2:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Very nice.
September 27, 2009 3:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
FYI, Miami Herald's Francis Robles, the source of the Zelaya quotes that the right-wingers are having such fun with, is being dragged over the coals for her misquotes. Other reporters who have talked to Zelaya about the Robles article have said that Robles deleted the very important "rumorado" and "supuesto" (rumored, alleged) language that Zelaya spoke in his interview with her. It's a paper tiger, grasshopper. Let go of its tail.
September 27, 2009 1:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
After reading this:
ANALYSIS-Brazil's risky role in Honduras crisis, Reuters, Sept. 23,
I think you can pretty much get some answers in seeing what Brazil says and does now. If it so happens that the Zelaya group has overreached into zany or deluded agitprop territory, they'll drop them like a hot potato. If it's true, they'll stick with them, ala "this is an outrage."
September 27, 2009 2:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought that was an interesting article, but here's a critique to it:
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/3450/what-some-us-reporters-dont-get-about-brazil-and-honduras-crisis
September 27, 2009 3:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Short BBC bit highly suggestive of hot air:
last updated at 00:28 GMT, Sunday, 27 September 2009 01:28 UK
but the apparently calmly exiting Brazilian charge d'affaires Catunda does say they were attacked with "toxic gases" which "affected the health of the people inside," while describing the situation as "absurd":
Brazilian official leaves embassy in Tegucigalpa, Xinhuanet from TEGUCIGALPA, 2009-09-27 12:25:28.
He sounds pissed off but it also sounds to me more like the kind of silly business that went on with the U.S. forces trying to get Manuel Noriega out of the papal embassy in Panama in 1989, than the re-enactment of the final solution gas chambers that some of the descriptions make it out to be. Probably something not much worse/different than tear gas. Still, as Catunda says, not the way to treat an embassy.
They want to get this thing to a head, is the reason for pushing it, I think. There is a Bloomberg story out that the head of the Latin American Business Council for Honduras is complaining that the curfew is causing loses of $50 million a day, and that could bankrupt the whole country right quick, the business class is not happy.
September 27, 2009 2:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, the news is out, from several sources, that Honduras is going for a direct confrontation with Brazil, a 10-day ultimatum:
Bloomberg, 1 hour ago
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aHV3fLIdHpSc
also I saw the same from Reuters.
Will continue to be extremely interesting. Like the Rio think tank guy in the Reuters analysis piece I cited above said, "If a Nobel prize winner like Arias couldn't advance talks, our possibilities to act are very modest."
(Mho, it would be nice if Oliver Stone kept his compadre Chavez busy so he stays out of it, chances are he'd just make things worse for all concerned...think of the drama he could have made with the Israeli toxic gases story.)
September 27, 2009 3:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I got a good chuckle reading that...but you know, Michelleti isn't known to be one of the intellectual giants of Honduras.
But for what its worth, Lula has trumped Chavez anyway. And that's something to think about...Brazil is the largest consumer market in the south and it is rivaling the US. Hell, it could become West China.
That's what intrigues me about Giordano's thesis linked to above: Lula knows that there is no possibility of a negotiated resolution in Honduras. So what is he thinking?
September 27, 2009 4:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd guess he's thinking: "Why the fuck did this asshole force his way into my embassy?!"
September 27, 2009 5:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
This move by Zelaya has achieved for Michiletti what he hadn't been able to accomplish himself: access to legitimate diplomatic delegations. The EU's is returning their official delegation so is France and Brazil. That will force to a head the issues at the embassy - but also put Brazil in a more responsible position for Zelaya's behavior.
It's an interesting situation. Now pretty much everyone is laying recognition of November elections on the table - which seems to be what the Honduran establishment really wants. IMO that's why Zelaya keeps making accusations and calling his followers to fight. I'm convinced the objective from his side is to derail elections.
Michiletti has offered to step down if Zelaya agrees to end his push and allow a caretaker government under the monitoring of international observers handle the election and transition. If Zelaya is seen as the intractable, a fall back option could be for the international community to accept Michiletti standing down without Zelaya's approval and offer him assylum. That would take a lot of back-peddling though, so it seems unlikely unless Zelaya does something really crazy.
The solution from Honduras' standpoint has always been through legislature. The courts ruled that they don't have the authority to grant amnesty ... and Michiletti doesn't either ... which is accurate they can't under the constitution. Honduras is kind of playing a game in that respect. In reality Michiletti's stance could change significantly without him losing face. IMO, we'll know it's getting close to "amicable" resolution if they start talking about a legislative amnesty.
September 27, 2009 5:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not just Honduras losing money. El Salvador is reliant on Honduran ports to get their products to international markets via the gulf and it's their only land route to South America ... they are taking a beating on this too. They've been complaining for a while.
September 27, 2009 5:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
You would want to keep a few things in mind before going too far with your mockery. Most weaponised gases are slightly heavier than air to guarantee deliverability, concentration and containment. Most of them also dissipate relatively quickly, because the idea is to clear an area in order to advance into it, not to make it an uninhabitable wasteland.
We also do not know exactly what the embassy compound is like, and where the Hondurans are. It is, to say the least, improbable that they are hanging out in the middle of it rather than, for example, some separate building.
The one factor that makes a HCN attack unlikely (aside from the complete insanity of attacking another country's embassy) is that it seems no-one mentioned the almond smell...but then I find any attack to have been unlikely - though not impossible. It is not as if things are going very rationally around there.
September 27, 2009 8:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
HCN is also unlikely because of the tolerances involved. CS gas actually creates the desired effect at a lower ppm than HCN, but marginally higher concentrations don't turn deadly. In any weaponized gas attack I've seen, the personnel in the immediate vicinity wear protective gear - particularly if (though I've never seen this done) delivered by air via helicopter which makes targeted delivery all but impossible. Likewise with truck delivery as liquid and then turned into an aerosol on site and delivered by hose from neighboring properties. Without entering the compound and running hoses where they need to go - such an operation would seem to rely on creating an effective concentration within the general environment not precise targeting.
The mocking tone is because the leftist propaganda operation is treating us like morons. Based on Glen Beck et. al. perhaps that's how we come across - but it irks me. IMO, it's designed to keep the faithful agitated against the Honduran government - not to persuade people to support Zelaya.
September 27, 2009 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink