From the GOP Bully Pulpit: No Health Care for Illegal Aliens
And the Democratic Leadership - never ones to stand up to demagoguery when a simple "bi-partisan" weak-at-the-knees surrender will do - recently caved to Joe Wilson's "You Lie" comment by making certain that not only would undocumented immigrants be denied any benefits under any health care proposal presented to Congress, but that they would not be able to even purchase health insurance.
For better or worse, the undocumented immigrants are here in large numbers and there is no reason to believe they will simply disappear overnight in the absence of available health insurance. So at a time when we deem it important to mandate everybody's participation in the health insurance pool, we have carved out undocumented immigrants as a special class of people who will not be allowed to participate at all.
It's a reasoned exception the Republicans make in this regard. The mandate recognizes that those without insurance too often postpone medical care until their illness or disease requires medical services in an emergency room. It therefore makes sense to mandate health insurance coverage to ensure everyone who participates in the system gets help when it is most efficiently provided, meaning early on at the onset of symptoms. It also ensures that these people cover their share of the cost for emergency room care and all other services.
The difference that allows for an "illegal alien exemption," however, is an implied agreement that they will not be allowed to participate in our health care system at all. They aren't supposed to be here in the first place. So why would we let them have access to the emergency room or any other services where they will waste our tax dollars on services provided?
If you are going to be chest-poundingly tough on this issue, it's really a pretty sound argument. And what are the Republicans if not chest pounders when it comes to their attitude toward brown-peopled hoards coming north to "steal our jobs" and commit other such crimes against the Republic? But let's try a little thought experiment to see just how such a "get tough" policy might be realized. Let's imagine a plausible case wherein two parents show up at the entrance to an emergency room with a ten year old boy. The boy suffers from appendicitis; from an illness that is presently causing him great physical agony and duress and will most certainly result in the death of the boy if left untreated. The boy is not covered by any insurance because his parents are undocumented immigrant workers.
Doctors and other health care workers are presently prohibited by oath and by law from denying this boy emergency medical care, which in this case would include an examination, medical tests, surgery and recovery at great cost to the taxpayer. Yet, under the GOP "get tough" plan the law would be changed to prohibit any intervention at all. A standoff would ensue between the health care workers and those who would enforce the GOP dictate. How might it be resolved? Let's imagine various political players on the scene, and see what happens:
Boehner, McConnell and the rest of the GOP leadership would insist that they are interested in helping, but that there needs to be a bi-partisan solution to this problem and that we all need to just slow down a little and start over.
Rush Limbaugh would not show up, but would instead take to the airwaves to play "Barack, the Magic Negro," say it was all the fault of the Democrats and other Socialists. He would then speed-dial his contact to arrange delivery of his next bagful of oxycontin.
Lou Dobbs would smugly sneer and ask "What is the Government DOING about this problem?" He would then call upon citizen militias to establish a three-block perimeter around every emergency room to prevent such problems occurring in the future.
Glen Beck would organize a teabaggers rally at the site to gain the media advantage, drawing attention away from the family and the issue at hand while inciting his followers to paroxysms of rage against the guvmint and any other social conventions that stand in the way of "Freedom" and "Liberty" and whatever other patriotic words he can think of. Cameras will be at the ready should the mob choose to tear this family limb from limb, a plausible outcome for which Beck has already written the tele-script in which it will be explained that "The godless Dems have blood on their hands over their failure to close the border and get rid of these illegal aliens!"
Meanwhile, there would be two parents in an increasingly agonized state watching over their little boy who grows sicker and who is at extreme risk of dying on the doorstep of a state-of-the-art medical facility.
I think you get the point. I have little doubt that Beck and the others we've seen could easily demagogue such a scenario to achieve higher ratings or electoral success or political power or whatever personal "needs" might motivate them at the time. I also believe that this is what defines them as sociopaths.
I also fear that a mob such as we've seen assembled at these teabaggers rallies would be capable of committing savage acts of violence against the undocumented characters in question if offered the right incitement to riot.
But I also know that this isn't the America we all grew up with, and it isn't in our nature as individual human beings to be cruel to another human being in such a fashion. I therefore know that if any one of us - or even nearly any single person in Beck's mob - were confronted one-on-one by a mother and a father pleading to receive medical help for their dying child, we would move heaven and earth to make certain such help was given if available. And we wouldn't even ask if they were here in this country legally or not.
This "get tough" policy of absolutely no health care being made available for "illegal aliens" sounds pretty good to the politicians who are anxious to offer their bona fides to the chest-thumping mob that calls for such measures.
But, except for the opportunistic bullies and outright sociopaths among us, we might all benefit in taking a step back, drawing a deep breath, and truly consider the consequences of such punitive policies before insisting they be passed into law.
(NOTE: This was re-published from yesterday due to a problem with the posting date on the original.)
















This is a good thought-exercise for us. I like it especially that you say that the Limbaughs, et.al. might move heaven and earth to help the boy in crisis if they were face to face with him and his parents.
The other worrisome ingredient many Republicans want to add to any bill is that without a birth certificate, people would not be admitted to an emergency room. Think how many people would be unable to produce a birth certificate; it takes months to order one and receive one from the capital of the state where you were born. Plus a fee!
September 27, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
In spite of them having the majority in the House and the Senate plus the White House, Gutless Dems are letting Republican 'leadership' run the show. Cutting undocumented workers out of the HCR package is a sop. There isn't a health care provider worth the air they breathe that would turn away a child in agonizing pain and the politicians in D.C. know it.
HCR is sucking the air out of the room at the moment, but, I've got a hunch we'll all be looking back at it like it was a walk in the park when it comes time to deal with immigration reform. Possibly at that time, the reform will include a way to provide health care to undocumented workers, whether it will be allowed for them to purchase their own or whatever.
Interestin' times, Sleepin'.
September 27, 2009 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think their ultimate goal is to declare Barack Obama an undocumented alien and deny him healthcare!
September 27, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is one area I have to sigh and agree with the Republicans on. They shouldn't be here. They are criminals. They exist purely by stealing from the real citizens of this country. And they already get every other government aid in the book, oftentimes ones that real citizens can't even get.
Nothing should be given to these people but a meal and a ride back across the border.
So, sorry to whomever may disagree with me, but...No health care for people who can't provide proof of citizenship.
September 27, 2009 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wowzer . . .
Did you, as a former Soldier who fought for our nations freedoms ever ask any of your fellow brown skinned soldier buddies if they were in the country legally when they volunteered to join the military? Just wondering.
And ya' know, I hope you've got a serial number and an American flag tattooed on your boob right next to your nipple ring.
That way, in the case of an unfortunate and unforeseeable accident the emergency doctors will immediately know you're an All American babe and won't dump ya' in the dumpster along with rest of the medical detritus scheduled to be incinerated.
~OGD~
September 28, 2009 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't have to ask. When I enlisted, citizenship paperwork was required. I'm sure that's not the answer you wanted, but it's all I've got. Sorry.
September 28, 2009 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh really. . .
Either you are totally naive, or haven't an iota of a clue.
See: Military.com March 1, 2004
And not one damn thing has changed since then.
~OGD~
September 28, 2009 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
They exist purely by stealing from the real citizens of this country
Is that a fact? I urge you to contact your local District Attorney's office--this should be brought to his attention.
September 28, 2009 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Have you ever lived around these people? Hell, have you ever even been in contact with one? If you had, you'd understand what I'm saying. I grew up near Houston, so I've seen first hand what these people do.
September 28, 2009 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have in fact "lived around these people." In "inventing" the 10 year old boy for this thought exercise, I was in fact thinking of a specific boy who was a classmate and friend of my Grandson. They called him "Pedro, the Home Run Hitter" with great affection.
His father works long days in the fields for a tree nursery in the summer here every year . Good people. Pay their taxes. Go to church. Like to party on weekends with family and friends.
They are "illegal" only because of an accident of birth (by definition), not because of any inherent criminal gene or whatever it is you are insinuating here.
There are also many "illegal aliens" among us who you wouldn't recognize because of their lack of racial identifiers.
You should revisit what you have written here, and maybe take a minute to think about the degree of racism that lives within your heart.
September 28, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh . . .
I AM one of "...these people..." !
What now?
Are you going to start pissing and moaning that you don't like the smell of burning corn tortillas in the morning? Or are the lowered Chevys with the fiesta balls hanging around the windows taking up too much parking space in the barrio at your favorite Mexican food joint?
I have a sinking suspicion that someone's exhibiting a bit of latent intolerance.
Gee... I wonder why I get that feeling.
~OGD~
September 29, 2009 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kuyleh,
After thinking for a bit I decided to comment on the right wing attack on health care for illegal immigrants. They seem to be saying one of two things; 1- Obama is going to give illegal immigrants free health care coverage, or, 2- he's going to give them free health care. They're different.
If its number one, Health Coverage, I wondered how that would play itself out. Will Obama send government bureaucrats throughout the land searching for illegal immigrants, and once finding them, rather than send them home, give each a paid up health care insurance policy from Cigna, Aetna or Keystone East? Or maybe give them Medicare with no co-pays or deductibles? Or maybe Obama will
go on national TV and announce his plan to open offices throughout the land and man them with government bureaucrats, then invite all illegal aliens to report to these stations to pick up their paid up policies.
If its number two, Health Care, what might that mean? Well, it could mean that if an illegal is sick or injured, they get 'care', usually in a hospital emergency room. But that already happens,
so there would be no change there. Maybe we should deny illegals this care? I often hear there are 12 million illegals in the country, (someone counted them?) Imagine if just 100,000 of those illegals walked around the malls with untreated communicable diseases. And, doesn't that mean that all U S Citizens would have to carry proof of citizenship at all times?
Suppose there's a car accident and the ambulance arrives, won't the EMTs have to ask the injured, whoever they are, for proof of citizenship before they can treat them? If you call an ambulance to your house you better have your proof of citizenship ready, and of course take it with you to the emergency room.
Suppose a guy gets hit by a car and he's laying there all bloodied in the middle of the road, and suppose by some magical way we knew he was an illegal alien, do we jsut push him to the side of the road and let him lay there, after all, he WAS holding up traffic.
You ought to try thinking now and then, it will do wonders for your posts.
September 28, 2009 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I ought to try thinking? What makes you assume I haven't thought about this? I don't agree with you? That's real solid reasoning there.
Here's a bit of thinking for you, since apparently you missed it: Emergency health care is already a right in this country. *Noone,* regardless of ANYTHING, can be denied emergency care. Why do you think ERs where these people live are constantly filled with them? No questions asked medical care. And Obama isn't seeking to change that, last time I checked. So your little example of someone being hit by a car doesn't stand. Nor does the example of dead people laying in the streets due to lack of care.
Now, knowing that, reconsider what I said. These people are criminals. They are breaking the law by even being here. Please explain to me why we should offer them any sort of assistance at all? Cheaper health insurance just happens to be the topic of the thread here. What good do they do? Why exactly should we allow them to continue to be criminals or, worse yet, just naturalize them?
September 28, 2009 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kuyleh says;
You claim emergency care is already available to them...then you add;
Because of the problems it would create for the rest of us American citizens, you dingbat!
I answered this in my post, but I'll try again; what would you do if someone was hit by a car and was laying on the highway bloodied and broken and by some magical means you were able to determine they were an illegal alien. Would you refuse them care and just shove the guy off to the side of the road to allow traffic to continue?
On the other hand, suppose the victim on the highway was a U S Citizen without proof of citizenship, then what?
Suppose, like Typhoid Mary, a virulent communicable disease is traced to a home of illegal immigrants, do we ignore them and let them continue to spread the disease?
and;
if you don't want to give illegals ANY medical care that has to mean all American citizens must carry with them at all times, proof of citizenship. If we don't have that proof, we risk not getting medical care.
Its not only what it is you don't want to give to illegals, its what problems that stupid idea creates for the American public who ARE citizens.
And you claim you think?
September 28, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
So What ... Alert!
As of 2008 2.3 million people were incarcerated in the United Sates. That is 1 out of every 100 American adults. "Bureau of Justice Statistics Prisoners in 2007" http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/p07.htm
They are criminals. They receive free health care at taxpayers' expense.
So What!
~OGD~
September 29, 2009 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, Sleeping Jesus; you really are a good soul. I've been thinking about this post all day.
September 27, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Wendy. I think we are all good souls, actually, but that we are all capable of soulless acts. The trick is to make them as infrequently as possible and then make amends when necessary.
September 29, 2009 8:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
The problem comes down to this.
Most illegal aliens probably cannot afford to purchase mandated health insurance unless the government subsidizes them.
The government should not be giving subsidies to those who are here illegally.
The only way for the government to subisidize them is if the government somehow keeps the people in charge of the subsidy bookkeeping blindfolded to the documentation regarding one's ability to be in this country.
The issue is not so much that illegal aliens should be turned away from our hospital as it is that the system should be set up as so anyone who is not legally authorized will be detected and deported whenever they request government benefits of any sort.
Don't hospitals generally check out the identity of their patients during the "billing information" phase? At this point, anyone who claims insurance through a government program could have their status checked out and be reported if they are illegal (none of their medical records, just the fact that so and so does not register as being here legally).
September 27, 2009 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I for one, welcome this new regime which will, certainly "disincentiveize" illegals from bothering us with their medical problems.
Deport one or two after a knife fight, and from then on.
They stay home.
...)
They die at home.
No problem. The desired result has been achieved.
Until one guy gets the plague (precious blood of the Sweet Baby Jesus, let it happen
September 28, 2009 1:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice analysis JR. :) My take on this is that if the illegals have managed to thwart the multi-billion dollar infrastructure we have in place to keep them out of the country, then they're automatically our responsibility. That's without touching the real complexity of the issue, 'cause we all know the American people could never comprehend that. Besides these are really just political issues designed to open up market opportunities for federal contractors, whether they're part of the"Homeland Security" apparatus or the new sub-markets that will be opened to deal with removing stiffs from ER waiting rooms.
September 28, 2009 2:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
managed to thwart
That, and then there is always Jack's Revealed Rule of The Road #5:
"Watch out for each other, especially the kids"
(although I cannot with certainty say that those who have erected these thwarted obstacles see the thwarters as "each other". Nonetheless, they are.)
September 28, 2009 5:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks ... Glaivester . . .
Thanks for once again exhibiting, if not naivety, then you're down right ignorance.
Can you tell all of us here how many illegal Russian Armenian car salesmen are in the country? I personally know of eight. Not one of then makes under 100K a year. They all pay taxes, and all have families with kids that were born here.
There may not be millions, but there are hundreds of thousands of undocumented individuals of every nationality conceivable who reside within our borders. They're aren't all just a bunch of broke "beaners" or "wetbacks."
Do you see what I mean by your ignorance?
Get out of your cloistered little cut & dried "Paleoconservative" hobbit world and look at the real world through wide open eyes.
When Hadrian built the wall he thought like you.
~OGD~
September 28, 2009 8:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I commented last night Sleepin. I re recommended it today because my comment was gone.
At any rate, if I recall I wrote about how there is pressure on the right but also on the moderate dems for this type of racist and inhumane treatment of our brothers and sisters.
AND MOST OF THEM ARE CHRISTIAN FOR CHRISSAKES.
Good post. I got a lot of animosity covering some of this with a bit of biting satire discussing the nazis.
September 27, 2009 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Comments on some of the comments:
No health care for people who can't provide proof of citizenship.
So does that include tourists that are in the USA and happen to fall ill or injure themselves? How do you tell the difference between tourists and illegals during an emergency? Should care be denied until we are absolutely sure that the person with the emergency is here legally, even if every minute counts?
Most illegal aliens probably cannot afford to purchase mandated health insurance unless the government subsidizes them. At this point, anyone who claims insurance through a government program could have their status checked out and be reported if they are illegal...
According to Pew, about half of the illegals have health insurance. So if they show up at a hospital, presumably they will be treated while others will not. What about the case where a child of illegals is a US citizen, but the parents aren't? Treat the child, but not the parents?
And they already get every other government aid in the book, oftentimes ones that real citizens can't even get.
What I see right now is 47 million US citizens that can't get health insurance from the government because of the fear that an illegal alien might get access to health care, too. I find that incredibly sad, short-sighted and mean-spirited.
I'll ask this again: Who is going to carry away the bodies of people that die from lack of health care on the streets, on the steps of hospitals, inside houses and workplaces? Will the government call upon citizens to volunteer to perform this chore, or will it be willing to pay others to care for people in death but not in life?
I'm with SleepinJezus. This is about more than who has a right to access health care. It's about who we are as a nation and how we treat other human beings individually and collectively.
September 27, 2009 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
volunteer
Minutemen. (& teabaggers...)
They are lining up.
September 28, 2009 4:11 AM | Reply | Permalink