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Ma Joad & The Collapse of the Consumer Culture
(With thanks to stillidealistic, who prompted the following "lengthy wandering" by asking a most important question: "What can we little guys do to be a part of the solution to today's economic crisis?")
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What do we do to address the failure in our financial markets and our economy, and its impact on real people in the millions who suffer the consequences?
Finding the answer is important for us all, and it begins with reordering our own priorities. Easily said, to be sure, yet difficult to accomplish. Yet, there is simply no alternative as we confront the collapse - the end of the line - of this economy driven by consumer purchases funded with debt.
And I'm not sure what replaces it. It will take real economists to figure out where to from here. But I know that once the inevitable downsizing of our consumer appetite occurs, we will find other ways to sustain ourselves; to provide the definition of what it is to be successful beyond who has the biggest McMansion and the most toys.
For me, it's my faith in the common folk that holds promise that we will emerge stronger in a much better place for having suffered the necessary challenges we confront.
I'm reminded of the Swedish term lagom. It doesn't translate directly to English. It means "enough," but it means so much more. Who needs a McMansion, when a comfortable cottage is sufficient? That's lagom housing, but with an implied consideration of what opportunities are presented to you when you are satisfied with minimal requirements. A less grand house means fewer work hours to support it. Fewer work hours means more time with family. More time with family means more interaction with neighbors and community. And on and on...
After suffering the collapse of our consumer culture, maybe we discover what lagom means in English. Maybe we rediscover alot of really rewarding social currency that has been overwhelmed by our focus in pursuit of financial wealth above all else.
Steinbeck offers a great deal of insight into what it means to confront many of the issues and concerns we face today. In The Grapes of Wrath, he paints an absolutely bleak picture of a civilization gone to hell. Proud people are all laid low, beaten about the head and shoulders so consistently by their everyday circumstance. As a reader, you rage at the injustice even as you admire the humanity of the Joad family, and the preacher, and all the others who struggle to make it west to where orange groves offer a chance at a new life. (God, I can cry just thinking about Ma Joad as she bears witness to her family coming undone and all the pride being ripped from her husband and her boys.)
And then, for god's sake, you see these people lain prostrate in despair upon discovering that this "new life" is a chimera; only a continuation - no, an acceleration! - of the cruelty and greed and inhumanity that is so oppressively pervasive throughout the novel.
The lesson for us lies not in the depths of the anguish and despair that these okies confronted. After all, there is thankfully no reason to assume we will ever come close to experiencing such depths of hopelessness.
But I take my lesson instead from the last scene in the book where Rose of Sharon, having lost her baby at its birth, suckles a man dying of starvation. It is offered as a story almost biblical in its setting ("Rose of Sharon"; the manger, even) that offers us the essence of humanity; of what it means to truly live in this world with others. In sharing of herself so wilfuly and lovingly and with a quiet resolution, Rose of Sharon is herself granted a reprieve from despair and even death just as surely as is the man she nourishes.
And so where were we? Oh, yeah, what can we little guys do to be part of the solution here?
Much of what needs to be done is internal. I suggest we start by resigning ourselves to the fact that there are troubling times ahead for us all. We must then count our blessings, for we all have more than we probably deserve. (In extreme desperation, even Tom Joad knew the strength of the love and the depth of the character of his mother, and therefore knew he was blessed.)
We must also gain an understanding of the reality of this consumer culture in which we have existed, and truly understand the way in which it is unsustainable and, truth be told, so inherently unrewarding.
Finally, know that we are undergoing some pretty fundamental changes, and have faith that humanity will prevail and be strengthened because of it. In fact, anticipate such an outcome with a good degree of joy and excitement. After all, it is the sacrifices and the reordering of priorities undertaken today that will make possible a more just and loving world for our children and theirs.
But all the work to be done doesn't occur simply in your head. More than ever, it is important to look out for your neighbor if only because it grants you peace in knowing that people rise to the aid of others if needed. After all, no one of us can be sure in these uncertain times that we will NOT end up on the receiving end of such assistance.
And we must be vigilant that justice is preserved. In Steinbeck's tale, he recounts the desperate days at the beginning of the United Farm Workers Union when workers had no power and the wealthy owners were so absolutely brutal in laying them low. Yet, Steinbeck alludes to the strength that comes from within honorable souls pitching common battle against injustice, with a promise that diligent efforts to work for the common good cannot ever be turned back by the forces of greed, corruption, and "authority."
Yes, these times require us all to remain vigilant, and to raise hell every time you see the powerful and their minions trying to consolidate the power that is now slipping from their grasp. We are already seeing signs of this, as in the populist revolt over Daschle's tax and lobbying troubles and the clamoring for fairness and equity from our Wall Sreet CEO's. In so many ways these controversies are minor occurrences and are much more symbolic than substantial. But the common people such as you and me are beginning to find their voice in refreshing ways. We must keep it up.
Be angry, yet hopeful. If you believe in God, say your prayers. If you don't believe in God, then put your faith in humanity. And keep the faith!
Finally, above all else, if you truly want Peace, work for Justice! There is, in the end, a better world that awaits those who will set aside the old ways and embrace the very real revolution that confronts us. And take your comfort in knowing that Ma Joad would be so very proud of of us all.
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Speechless I am . . .
We here in our humble abode have always experienced the principle of lagom over the past 40 years. In every facet of our lives. One cannot fall far when never climbing above one's own means... And that always allows enough for others who have slipped.
Highly highly highly recommended!
~OGD~
February 6, 2009 2:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, OGD.
"And that always allows enough for others who have slipped."
Wonderfully stated! That is the essence, after all, is it not? We will all get there, or we will fail miserably. I have faith in brighter days ahead.
February 6, 2009 3:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I'll be all around in the dark. I'll be everywhere. Wherever you can look, wherever there's a fight, so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there. I'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad. I'll be in the way kids laugh when they're hungry and they know supper's ready, and when the people are eatin' the stuff they raise and livin' in the houses they build, I'll be there, too."
-- John Steinbeck
"Grapes of Wrath"
February 6, 2009 4:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for highlighting this, Justice.
Tom Joad is such a strong character. He at once has almost nothing, but then he is shown to have everything as witnessed in this citation.
And he goes with Ma's blessing, even as her heart breaks. THESE are the models of humanity that should inspire us all.
February 6, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post; what's funny to me that I just finished reading that book for the first time two nights ago. The printing I have is the 50th anniversary edition with the forward by Studs Terkel. Its one of the best beooks I've ever read, and unfortunately, all too timely.
February 6, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's serendipity don't ya think?
SJ's avitar is very cool too.
February 6, 2009 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Serendipitous, indeed! I can't think of anyone more appropriate than Studs to comment on the book. I'm going to have to get a copy of that edition just to read his intro!
Glad to piggy back on your first read of the book. It is quite an experience, to be sure!
February 7, 2009 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ma Joad called a lot of people jerks.
February 6, 2009 4:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad she never encountered you - I'm sure her vocabulary would have expanded considerably.
February 6, 2009 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perfect, Grouch!
Ma Joad and YIKES! (or whatever it calls itself)? Just who would you invite into your home?
BTW... I don't recall Ma Joad ever calling anyone a "jerk" throughout the entire, lengthy novel. But then again, I wouldn't expect YIKES! (or whatever it calls itself) to ever get an accurate read of good literature. It shows, after all, that there are limitations on what can be seen when you've got your head shoved right up your ass! The rest of YIKES!'s (or whatever it calls itself) "contributions" to TPM only confirm the "insider's view" of the world that is taken. BUTT (ahem!), YIKES!, there is so much more out here for those who would only see it.
February 6, 2009 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
El Stoopeedo!
Trying reading instead of ranting. Apology accepted.
February 6, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quote is here.
February 6, 2009 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
English comprehension escapes you, troll?
There is no way that the passage you cite can be construed as Ma Joad "call(ing) a lot of people jerks" as you so boldly declared in your initial comment.
If you will notice, the term "jerk(s)" used in your citation is presented as a verb, not a noun.
And so it would be me who would be entitled to the apology, jerk. (Now, THAT'S a noun, presented FYI!) But don't bother, 'cuz I really ain't much interested in listening to anything from someone who so consistently speaks through their ass.
February 6, 2009 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Instead of just admitting you missed the joke, rant away.
YIKES!
February 6, 2009 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you really that stupid, or do you just play someone who is on the internet?
February 6, 2009 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Dave!!!
February 6, 2009 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was saying it was a joke and then provided the quote to back up the joke.
Come on, SJ. It was pretty clear once all of it was written out like that and viewed objectively. I know you all think YIKES! is some sort of schizophrenic or whatever, but Occam's Razor must apply in situations such as this.
Can't we all just go into each interaction assuming the other person isn't out to fuck with them and act accordingly?
February 6, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very well, I am giving YIKES! (or whatever it is calling itself today) the benefit of the doubt.
If s/he delivers the punch line, I promise I will laugh.
Still waiting.
February 6, 2009 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, the benefit of the doubt is a great place to start. Thanks, SJ! Great blog, by the way. I haven't read the book but I agree with the sentiment.
My wife and I have been throttling back our wants to be more in line with our needs these last few years. Some by necessity and some by philosophy, but we are certainly convinced that consumerism is not the natural state of society.
Cheers!
February 6, 2009 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jason, thanks for getting "it". quinn made an "abroad" joke today and when I said if I made the same comment it would have been called sexist. And then I was pummeled for THAT!!!
No one at TPM is liberal. They are not open minded. I think maybe you are the only liberal. And you are Republican!
TO TPM READERS:
DO YOU ALSO GO HOME AND KICK YOUR DOGS???
TO THERAP:
It's the OLD GROUCH who is disruptive, but I never see you piss on him!!!
February 6, 2009 10:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't even read the damn book, but once I got through the thread I thought it was pretty obscure and original aside given the thread's topic. There is something in the water around here lately.
I am hoping it will chill out, because for the most part there are a lot smart and articulate people at TPM talking about important issues that have made this one of the most popular political blogs on the Internet.
Hang in there, dude! At least one person thinks you're a riot.
February 7, 2009 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Sheesh!
One of the greatest novels in American history?
I guess it doesn't have anything to with TR, so... oh well.
So much for literature.
~OGD~
February 7, 2009 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I just never got around to reading it. Why is everything a reason to offer an insult with you people?
Bunch of hypocrites is what you are, so damaged by four decades of cultural warfare that you can't grasp how close you are to your goal nor understand that only you stand in the way of reaching it.
Golden Rule, OGD. Check into it.
February 7, 2009 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
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You people ????
My my my ... It's amazing how paternalistic some folks can sound when they speak and/or write in such an authoritarian manner. Shades of Rush ...
"You people..." my asteroid orifice.
~OGD~
February 7, 2009 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is only a small handful at TPM who act as you do, while Rush is putting down a whole political philosophy.
I am speaking of very specific and irritating individuals such as yourself who feign outrage and ignorance over the most hair-splitting of political differences. I can name them if you want.
Careful, your hypocrisy is showing again.
February 7, 2009 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
Hey now ...
How's you white hat doing?
~OGD~
February 7, 2009 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quack.
February 8, 2009 8:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
No . . .
The real Quack!
Now about the "Hate Parade"...
~OGD~
February 8, 2009 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quack. That is all your dogmatic rhetoric is worth.
February 8, 2009 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Paranoia need destroy'ya.
I think people are mad at Congress and scared of the future. Their middle class riches all go bye-bye.
So take it out on the nearest person they can.
If you are lucky, I will take gold from you all and teach you how to hunt. Meat doesn't come from the grocery store. Oh the times they are a changin'...
Bye bye middle class!!!
February 6, 2009 11:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are funny and unfunny jokes, and friendly and unfriendly jokes.
I don't see YIKES!'s joke, if that's what it was, as either friendly or funny, especially given the follow-up:
"El Stoopeedo! ... Trying reading instead of ranting. Apology accepted."
It was a cheap attempt to show off as if knowledgeable about the character, and it used a cheap pun which wasn't particularly clever (it conflates a personality with an event).
While it may be that one man's joke is another man's insult, YIKES! is clearly and openly here to be cheaply annoying and provocative; there is an unstated five letter word for that condition, and it's not 'funny' most of the time.
Please do have the last word here!
February 7, 2009 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
No. I'll let you have it.
February 7, 2009 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Posted by eds in reply to a comment from jason everett miller "
Are you speaking for mr. miller now?
February 7, 2009 2:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Read the freaking thread again. The quote you offered as AFTER SJ got all offended by the Ma Kettle joke or whatever. So, now Grapes of Wrath is the liberal bible and demands that sort of thin-skinned responses. Come on! This is just getting ridiculous.
February 7, 2009 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
"especially given the follow-up: "
And watch those crucial typos, Jason. "as after"
Want to try again to have the last word?
February 7, 2009 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why, eds. You seem intent on trying to keep it for yourself. Grow up!!!
Yes, I saw you wrote that comment to Jason but apparently it's TPM SOP to keep peoples "backs"
February 7, 2009 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I offered it sincerly to Jason, twice now.
Appearances can be deceptive.
February 7, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check into the "period" as a more useful punctuation mark. If you must have a parenthetical phrase, sometimes a "dash" is a more appropriate device for readers of varying skills to follow what you are saying. Most journalists write for an eighth-grade reading level as standard operating procedure.
A better way to have written the above thought, if it actually could be considered to be a thought, is as follows:
I certainly wouldn't have used the word "cheap" twice in such a short paragraph. I also wouldn't use so many three-syllable words if my goal was to write for normal people. This is great personal journal style because you already know what you are trying to say.Keep trying, Skippy! Once of these days you might actually learn how to write for an audience.
February 7, 2009 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!!!
February 7, 2009 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm always open to constructive criticism, unlike some other authors who prefer hypocrisy.
Thanks for reading my terrible prose twice! No thanks for missing the point and your terrible editing job.
February 7, 2009 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
...can you even read? For cry'in out loud!
February 6, 2009 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awww..now I'm blushing.
All troll-beating aside, thanks for the reminder of one of the greatest novels in American history. And why that is so.
February 6, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
It proves its inability to comprehend. Did you ever think you'd see the day when ignorance and arrogance combined so perfectly?
February 6, 2009 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! You like the "little people" so that you can make your superior remarks.
Old Grouch... you are very grouchy... careful, you might pop your heart.
Nope. I don't think you have one.
February 6, 2009 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are a little person - almost infinitesimal. And when it comes to you I have no heart whatsoever.
Frankly, you're pitiful. What kind of neediness compels someone to presume that others are apologizing when they are not, as you did upthread - and in other posts hereabouts?
There's enough material in you for an entire conference.
February 6, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are just angry you didn't get the joke.
That's two for two, you grumpy old grouch.
February 6, 2009 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only joke I see here is you, you pathetic loser. And I'm beginning to enjoy beating on you.
February 6, 2009 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Impotent old man... go in peace.
February 6, 2009 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best you don't find out about my potency - in your case I won't use lube.
Face it, loser, you're in among your betters. And giving a damn poor account of yourself.
February 6, 2009 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very tough on the Internet. You wouldn't last a single day in the environment I grew up in. If you want a show down, quit your posturing and man up, grumpy old man.
February 6, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
right behind ya Grump. I got your back.
February 6, 2009 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
SJ, you have fulfilled my heart's desire! :)
Posts like this are worth way more than riches.
To me, this is the key:
and the next phrase:
Working together. Maintaining one's inner strength and moral compass. Resisting oppressors and bullies - by "pitching common battle against injustice."
Here, at TPM, we doing just that. For each other. For our fellows. For the common good.
February 6, 2009 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Try telling that to your local grocery store. Hand them this when you need bread.
February 6, 2009 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spoken like a true believer. Go with..... Aw, the hell with it, just go.
February 6, 2009 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worth remembering that if no one is buying, no currency has any meaning, so wealth is dependent on the masses believing in it.
In contrast, food is still food, love is still love, and a roof still keeps you dry. You can't eat gold.
February 6, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Very true. But you need gold to eat.
February 6, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
It a shame there will be nobody who cares about you enough to show up at your virtual funeral.
February 6, 2009 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is embarrassing. You guys are seriously over the moon on this one. I have to call it like I see it. Seen from an objective standpoint, many of you take YIKES! as some sort of ass and then go from there.
Prejudice leads to misunderstanding all the time, even more on the Internet when we have no body language or tone of voice. The guy was actually agreeing and adding some small amount of nuance, though it apparently went over many heads. I thought it was kind of clever in a couple places, actually.
Take another look at the threads (while not taking cheeky comebacks so personally) before you decide to reply with how big of an idiot I am.
February 6, 2009 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It wasn't a joke, Jason. Jokes are funny.
Certainly any good socialist would treat Ma Joad with a modicum of respect.
Hold your fire for someone worthy.
February 6, 2009 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
A joke is a joke whether you agree its funny or get it or not. A joke should not bring an out-of-proportion response.
February 6, 2009 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the contrary, if you have to explain it, its not a joke.
I don't object to funny comments, but that one just wasn't very funny. To disagree a little with Bwakfat, I don't find it offensive, just not particularly funny, i.e. it was just a lame attempt. So a lot of other people see it the same way, and we're "stupid" for not getting it.
Whatever.
Fine; I'll give you an example of funny:
These days the City of Salinas has a Library named after Steinbeck and the local Chamber of Commerce styles itself as Steinbeck Country.. But years before "Steinbeck Country"was commercialized into a tourist draw, the same businessmen organized a book-burning of his works in front of the old Library.
They used to burn his books, now they've named the Library after him.
Now that's funny.
February 8, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just thought it was a little melodramatic to get all bent out of shape over the remark, whether one thought it was clever or not.
Good story of how things change. Kind of backs up my main contention that we can change the nature of our politics to actually deliver on the big thinking we need to save our collective asses from the fire.
Cheers.
February 8, 2009 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: That joke was funny. He took a fairly obscure passage and riffed on it in a creative way. Not sure what the big insult was.
February 6, 2009 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
A negative and nasty way, actually. I am afraid I don't agree. It wasn't funny.
February 6, 2009 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone has a right to a sense of humor that is entirely their own. Not everybody gets Dave Chappell or Joe Rogan, but I think they are both hilarious.
February 6, 2009 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: Go all the way back to the original comment:
That is hardly mean or nasty unless one goes into the analysis with a preformed judgment of the author.I am suggesting that perhaps your reaction wasn't in keeping with what was actually said and the way it was delivered. It wasn't until ya'll jumped on YIKES! that he started to get sarcastic and defend himself.
There is a process here at play that is easy to see when you don't have a dog in the fight.
February 6, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please. Read Grapes of Wrath again.
It isn't "everyone else" who has the problem here. I'm tired of seeing you defend the indefensible. I will no longer read or respond when you do so.
It's frustrating to be condemned for trying to do you a favor.
(shrug)
February 6, 2009 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Defend the indefensible? Holy shit, chicken, you need to get over yourself. It's a fucking book.
February 6, 2009 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS: mjeffin is a big boy. If he was angry about something I said, he would say something. He has before.
February 6, 2009 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reading over the thread, as you suggested, I have to admit that I didn't catch the humor as I was somehow thinking that I was speaking the spriche - NOT YIKES! WTF! How the hell did I do that?
If I call it collateral damage does that make me a Republican? ;)
Sorry bout dat YIKES!
February 6, 2009 11:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
mjeffn:
Following me means never having to say you're sorry.
February 7, 2009 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, dude. That is the most honest thing I have read on this thread. I just want to feel good about all the time I spend here, which is hard when people I usually like to debate with go around the bend over phantoms.
February 7, 2009 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Bwakfat: don't you know that the movie and the book are different?
Know something before you discuss it, okay? Thank you!
Oh yeah, the movie was made by conservatives proving once again that there isn't much difference between you (the Democrat) and them (the Republican).
February 6, 2009 10:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd claim "El Stoopeedo" to be a gratuitous insult,albeit extremely juvenile and unimaginative. In context here, it belies any suggestion of this being offered as a joke.
But I am witholding judgment until YIKES! provides the punchline. I'm still waiting.
February 7, 2009 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a great run this thread is having! Kudos, SJ!
February 7, 2009 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Need some chapstick, TheraP?
February 7, 2009 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The El Stoopid whatever was offered after you got all huffy and puffy about the calling people jerks comment. Seriously, is there something in the water around here these days? When did people get so damn thin skinned?
February 7, 2009 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Uhhh . . .
Water? ... This blustery influence peddler ought to go stick his head in bucket of it...
It would be much easier to make sense out of the gurgling sounds from the gas bubbles.
~OGD~
February 7, 2009 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am done with you and the rest of the Hate Parade. Feel free to leave whatever droppings you want, duck, because I am simply going to step around them.
February 7, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
You know . . .
There's a saying that the Navy SEALs use:
YoHo YoHo ... a sailor's life for me. . .
~OGD~
February 7, 2009 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quack.
February 8, 2009 8:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Hah!
This guy just doesn't quite have the self-control to do what he said he'll do in that comment to the "Quack" link.
What's next?
I'm a racist?
Word!
~OGD~
February 8, 2009 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never called you a racist, but it wouldn't surprise me given the prejudice you practice around here a daily basis. You aim the same negative emotions at republicans that racists direct at their object of hate. Not a whole lot of difference that I can tell.
Thanks why you continue to only get quacks from me.
February 8, 2009 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Juvenile? No, silly, maybe but not juvenile.
You, sir, are the juvenile one:
I was responding to this quote. Especially when you talked about my needing to read books.
You have a superiority complex here, SpleeninGeeze. Why not admit that you responded to my name and not my comment and that was the reason for your over the top answer??? Others have.
But no!!! Just like Nixon you are all about the coverup!!!
YOU ARE AS BAD AS THE CORPORATE ELITE IN THIS COUNTRY!!! And you don't get it!!! Figure out the analogy, man!!!
February 7, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
What? You didn't get the joke?
February 7, 2009 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW... I'm actually kinda' enjoying this. Jousting with nincompoops is such an easy exercise.
Now, about that punchline....
Still waiting.
February 7, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you weren't smart enough to get the joke that everyone else got maybe you should stop blogging.
Studs would be ashamed of you.
February 7, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never suggested you needed to read books. My criticism was more in line with your very limited contribution to discussion on these pages and, most interestingly given your response, your obvious deficiency in English comprehension.
To wit:
In citing the quotations from the book, you only confirmed my analysis of your ability at an accurate read. In your follow up and other caustic "contributions" to these pages, you further confirm my assessment of your "insider view."
But go ahead. Prove me wrong. Come up with a punchline.
Still waiting...
February 8, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I responded to your alter ego OldenGoldenDecoy who also happens to be obsessed with the "punchline".
You keep typing on, you bombastic bloated blow heart who is drunk with his own writing.
How DARE YOU CLAIM I MADE A "THIN" CONTRIBUTION!!!
GO to sleep now.
And learn to spell.
February 8, 2009 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Learn to spell? Must be another joke. What do you mean? Where's the punchline in this gratuitous insult? What misspelling are you talking about here, sport?
Still waiting.... again.
Oh, and I certainly did not mean to suggest you made a "thin" contribution as you claim - if I in fact said such a thing. (I know accuracy in reading ain't quite your long suit, sport!) After all, "thin" would indicate your contribution offered some manner of depth and dimension. I would therefore most certainly have suggested no such thing, for I have yet to see anything of substance in any of the bile and nonsense you spew.
February 8, 2009 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus!!!
February 8, 2009 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
PS I think at this point, you are the only one not to get the joke.
If only you had been calm and rational. But, no, you had to show your ignorance and with every post, it's clear how stubborn you are. You can't admit a mistake. LOSER!!!
February 8, 2009 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eggzackly! ;O0)
February 6, 2009 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bwakfat: Ma Joad is a fictional character. Even you deserve more respect than she does since she doesn't exist.
She can't get respect. She is not real. Did you learn anything in school? There is a part of literature called fiction. It's pretend. Make believe.
Also, the movie is not a documentary. And Ma Joad is the same woman in Mary Poppins. She's the bird lady. She deserves respect too, I guess. So does Mary Poppins. Where does this leave Julie Andrews?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ACK ACK HEE HEE
Okay? Now run along like a good little hen.
February 6, 2009 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heard of barter? Or gardening? Or hunting?
Money is a convenience, an efficient transfer system, that stores a record of "someone's best efforts", as Ayn Rand had her character say in "Atlas Shrugged". But its use becomes moot when it loses the confidence it needs to enjoy from the public.
Still, I was mainly saying that wealth is not life.
February 6, 2009 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
If we are ever back to a barter system with such a huge population, society will be on the thin edge of a dangerous and deadly place. The societal dynamics at play right now are a little more global and complex these days.
February 6, 2009 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've heard of hunting yes.
I can hunt.
What are you going to do?
Most middle class people don't have survival skills. Only the poor people do.
February 7, 2009 12:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. This is a very thoughtful, thought provoking and insightful post.
The vast and utter failure of our economic, civic, and political leadership is evident wherever one looks in America today. The common people are well aware that the orgy of greed and irresponsibility at the top has come to fruition now and they know that whatever solutions are reached it will require them to do the yeoman's work of recovery while the fools and incompetents at the top take credit for it once again despite their culpability for the disaster.
The common people have always been the strength of the republic and of our economy and they always will be. It is important today as it was in the last depression that it be made crystal clear to every citizen, old and young alike just who caused this catastrophe and why. I am not referring to the Republicans here though they are involved and a crucial element in enabling the disaster. The last depression was caused by the unrestrained greed of predatory wealth and this one has the same origin albeit the details are somewhat different. The Republicans are only the tribunes of those directly responsible for our economic collapse. The Republicans and sadly far too many Democrats have been little more than the paid help of the irresonsible and gluttonous malefactors of great wealth whose love of self is obviously much greater than their love of country. Those same people and forces, in their relentless pursuit of greater wealth and pwoer for themselves and their class, are also responsible for the lion's share of our social disorder and deterioration of the family since the end of World War II.
Employers have always demanded workers work more for less and produce more for less but that was tempered by New Deal legislation and the power of unions for a time. But beginning in the late 60's and early 70's, As the wealthy began gorging themselves on an ever greater piece of the economic pie they, demanded more work for less pay and benefits from the workers they employed. The insatiable demand for more, more, more on the part of businesses reordered the lives of American families such that parents were putting so many hours toward work they could no longer attend to their families as would have been the case in the past forcing parents to choose between being able to pay to have enough for their families to live in decent homes, etc... and being able to take the time that is necessary to guide and teach the young. Workers whether blue or white collar have been asked increasingly for more, they have been asked for sacrifices large and small, they have been asked to work longer, produce more and expect less for decades now. These unceasing demands on the part of predatory wealth have destabilized and even destroyed families, caused not only hardship but substantive economic decline for a wide swath of the population. The growing stress from the inability to support one's family on the wages available in today's economy has caused incalculable harm. What is truly criminal about this is that it isn't as though the wealth of our nation was not abundant enough to provide adequately, even generously to our people. No. There was plenty of wealth being generated. It was the greed of those at the top and the unending demand for more from them that necessitated that the vast numbers of honest, hardworking people do increasingly without.
As in the 1930's, the nation now lays prostrate and helpless in the aftermath of the inevitable result of the unrestrained greed and parasitism of the business leadership of the nation. The "Masters of the Universe" label was never accurate except in their own minds, except for one word: "masters". The nation's workers have been in virtual slavery to the whims of these people whose self-centered greed and sense of entitlement was extolled as a virtue since the rise of the racist Republican southern strategy. Unions, the only organizations dedicated to the improvement of the common worker, have been systematically crushed for decades and unjustly villified by the malefactors of great wealth and their legions of poltroonish courtiers in the Republican Party and even some Democrats. The sensible efforts of liberals to improve the lot of workers and the poor to strengthen the entire nation have been increasingly denigrated and scoffed at as the naive pandering of "bleeding hearts" who coddle the lazy and whose heads are in the clouds.
All the lessons learned by our citizens in the Great Depression have been unlearned since our nation fell captive once again to the propaganda and greed of predatory wealth during this restoration of laissez faire capitalism and social darwinism. Even now, this very week, prominent Republicans and "conservatives" continue to propagate the lie that FDR's New Deal "didn't work" or was "a failure" and that the New Deal only made things in America worse. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of history understands what calumny and nonsense this is, yet the corporate media blares the message out unchallenged in almost every case with their false equivalency reporting as though they simply cannot discern difference betwee a transparent lie and the truth on anything from evolution vs creationism to whether or not torturing people is torture!
So yes it is a time to reorder our priorities but it is a time forreorder that takes on the proportions of a genuine revolution in our political and economic order. The people of this country are sovereign, not the wealthy, and we should not work toward a restoration of the scheme that brought us to this economic calamity.
We must have a new America, a second and much better and stronger New Deal, that provides the public supports and investments that a civilized nation requires for it's people to blunt the harsh realities of capitalism as all our close allies have had for decades. Ironically, all the protestations of the wealthy and powerful notwithstanding, the New Dealers understood this very well and we have once again reached the point where that is the only way capitalism will survive in the long run because it is a naturally self destructive thing that requires regulation and balance it cannot provide or maintain for itself. The logical, predictable outcome of unregulated capitalism is exactly the disaster we see all around us today. This is no revelation at all to those of us who have remembered and understood history. Capitalism by defnition is a beast unable to restrain itself from eating it's young as it once again has done in the present case. It's core principles are brutal and destructive to the point of being self-destructive. If this fact isn't self-evident to all right now then as the depression grows and deepens it will become so. We ignore the evidence of this plain truth at our peril.
As part of the revolution our nation requires, we must now demand a government that is beholden only to it's citizens and strong enough to resist the corrupting influences of corporate wealth and privelege. The only way to achieve this is to free all our elected officials from their dependence upon and addiction to the campaign contributions of the well-heeled interests that have controlled our government at every level now for decades.
Public financing of all elections is the only way to do this. There is no other way and there should be no compromise on this point. It is clear that this is an essential safeguard for preservation of our republic by, for and of the people.
Politicians respond most to those that help them stay in office. The way one stays in office is to get re-elected and that takes money and lots of it. If that money is provided by the public alone and the influence of corporate money is totally removed from the system we will see our elected representatives once again paying more attention to the needs of the people instead of the needs of those with deep pockets and bad intentions whose money they currently depend upon for reelection.
There are plenty of other things that also must be done but we must clearly recognize and identify those responsible for this mess (our business leaders) and those who were the handmaidens of those people (primarily Republicans but also to varying degrees "Blue Dog" and other centrist Democrats). We must realize also that they are recalcitrant and obstinate in their denial of reponsibility for the calamity they caused and will resist as they have always done, every step of the way. We need to realize that the fight to return our nation to prosperity and stability is only just beginning and that we cannot allow our essential recovery efforts to be slowed or watered down by those who, despite having been completely discredited, still hold power and continue to use it in the very same malignant ways they have for the past 50 years.
My apologies for rambling on so. But sleepin inspired me.
February 6, 2009 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oleeb, you have touched upon so much here that expands upon the points I was trying to make with my blog. Sometimes, perhaps, "rambling" is a good thing?
I'm reluctant to reply in toto here to your comments, but only because I'm certain it would result in another lengthy dissertation. I'm not sure I can impose upon the readers here in such a way. I may, however, use this as a jumping off point for another blog entry. There is simply too much covered here of importance to be ignored.
The major point is that I agree with you that we have been beaten about the head and shoulders for far too long by the monied interests that essentially "own" our government.
But I would focus upon the fact that we have been complicit in our own suffering, if you will, by allowing the capitalists to define success (the "good life) as "He with the most toys, wins!" In this game, they have defined personal financial wealth as the prime objective for all who participate in this consumer economy. In their brilliance, they then kept us from ever attaining such wealth for ourselves; in fact, through ownership of our "democracy," they have lifted any regulation or control of this "game" that would allow for fair participation for all. The result is a cruel economic system wherein we are encouraged to strive for more and more personal economic wealth, while everything is done otherwise to deprive us of same and keep us hungering for more.
In the end, we find ourselves to be not much more than indentured servants, owned by those who so effectively fund K Street's control of our government.
We need campaign finance reform as you point out. Short of that I suggest that we need a full-blown revolution to once again achieve a democratic republic.
But we also need to reorder our own priorities and remove ourselves from participation in the cruel consumer economy we have pursued, and instead work for the advancement of a better world for all of us.
What does that look like?
For openers, Universal Health Care is one such example of what we could accomplish if we were successful at redefining "success" from the attainment of personal wealth to a measure of how much we gain in fulfilling the fundamental needs of all our citizenry.
But THAT will have to rest for another blog, as I've already rambled for far too long.
Thanks for your comments, oleeb. It's a great contribution. You've inspired additional consideration of the issues that help firm up and flesh out my initial thoughts on these issues. And that is what these discussions are all about, eh?
l
February 6, 2009 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks and I certainly agree with everything you wrote especially the revolution part. One little footnote, the IWW had a name for what we all are under the current system: "wage slaves".
February 6, 2009 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great comment oleeb!!! I am not surprised you know Zinn. You sound like him!!!
February 6, 2009 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Campaign financing isn't the only problem we have in getting our elected officials to pay attention to us. Career politicians are a problem, gerrymandering is a problem, the advantage that an incumbent has is a problem...I'm ready for a big discussion about how we elect our officials, but that's for another thread.
SJ, thanks for following through on Thera's suggestion that you take your "comment" and flesh it out into its own thread. This is a masterful post, and I'm glad I could be the catalyst for getting your thoughts on "paper."
Some (although you have to consider the sources) have complained that all the good posters have left TPM and its been taken over by sub par writers and thinkers. This thread blows that theory to pieces. Both you and oleeb have proven that.
Thank you.
February 6, 2009 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Getting more than 18 percent to turn out for primaries is why politicians don't listen to us and never will until that number goes up. Campaign finance reform does nothing if we don't show up to fire someone who isn't performing and show the guy you elect to replace him that you mean business.
February 6, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is probably off subject, but lately all these pundits including Butt Hume go on and on about how FDR and his programs failed. I always thought, what about the individuals that were given jobs and saved their families and went on to do other things?
These same pundits just dismiss the 'War on Poverty' like it was the biggest failure in the history of the United States. There are people who were able to go to college and they became lawyers, and doctors and I know, because I have seen forums on this aired by CSPAN.
Everytime there is some program that helps the powerless, it is pork spending. I hope this legislation gets passed and we can begin to see what works and what does not work.
February 6, 2009 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, right, Mr. multi-million-dollar-per-year-talking-head Mr. Hume. FDR and the New Deal were a failure.
dd and I are old enough to personally have known the generation that lived through the Great Depression. We also understand that - to a person! - every one of that generation we've talked with spoke (speaks) of FDR with great reverence for what he accomplished that relieved the suffering of themselves and their family.
In this, Mr. Hume, perception is everything! The fact that these people perceive that their suffering was ameliorated by the actions taken by FDR and the Dems is irrefutable evidence that the New Deal programs were successful in restoring the hope and confidence of the people. Then, as now, nothing more was actually required.
What's that, Mr. Hume? You know some who spoke of FDR as a "socialist" and a failure because he gave away riches to the impoverished?
Well, you are right. But the libertarians and the comfortably wealthy who possess far more monies than they do compassion for others really don't count. This includes talking heads who worry far more about their personal financial statement than whether others have food to eat or shelter from the storm.
This ain't about YOU, Mr. Hume. This is about US!
February 6, 2009 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reverence you speak of for FDR was very real and I've really never seen anything to compare it to. My grandmother held Roosevelt in such great esteem that until the day she died (about 20 years ago)whenever she used the term "the President" anyone that knew her, knew she was referring to FDR. And I know that she wasn't the only one to do so. All the others were "President so and so". My grandfather had a large portrait of Roosevelt in his office until he retired. It hangs in my home today as a reminder.
February 6, 2009 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly right. And on this forum, you are one of the comfortably wealthy which is why you act like a pathological bully -- attacking and then shocked when people attack back. Your behavior and lack of humility is EXACTLY like THEM!!!
Do you get it??? You are one of THEM!!!
February 7, 2009 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
What? You didn't get the joke?
Still waiting...
February 7, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a wonderful synergy occurring on this thread. And others as well. Let's keep the circle going! Let's have more and more spin-off blogs.
All of this reminds me again of the problem of "corporate personhood." The citizens only cede power to elected representatives to the extent that those representatives carry out the people's will. If they carry out instead the will of corporations or a corporate oligarchy, then the people may need to rise up in some manner and set things right.
February 6, 2009 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
It always amuses me, Sleepin', how the importance of a blog can be measured by the efforts to disrupt a thread. Using that yardstick, I can tell how very, very, very important this blog is. It demonstrates we must keep posting on topics like these! More spin-off blogs on this please. :)
February 6, 2009 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your comments hardly ever add content except praise. Who is disrupting what, HUH???
February 6, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go in peace.
February 6, 2009 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
More useless content.
February 6, 2009 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just f--king go.
February 6, 2009 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dr. Seuss said it best in "Go Dog Go"
"Whatever you do...JUST GO!"
February 6, 2009 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
..and that's bad because.......?????? Why, it's communist or something?
You need to check your reentry rockets because your orbit is decaying quickly.
February 6, 2009 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
TheraP can sometimes make some good points, but this latest what is with all the paranoia these days? Too much time spent at my last blog post or something?
There isn't some plot to "derail an important thread" by some unknown and nefarious entity. That simply makes no sense and doesn't imply critical or logical thinking.
Seriously. This is just embarrassing for all of us.
February 6, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like this post, SJ.
We've had our differences and still do, but I as well am hopeful that this crisis will retore some of the character in the people of this country that made it great in the first place.
Everyone wants a better life, and there's nothing wrong with consuming per se; but the irresponsible spending and debt creation of the past decade or so is beyond the pale.
The problem is that we have a generation of people willing to owe more than they're worth; not that we have opportunities for them to spend more than they're worth. Temptation is not an excuse for sin.
At some point since 1950, "consumer culture" replaced what used to be, possibly ethnocentrically, the "Protestant work ethic" and "American Dream" (Which used to mean giving your children a better life than you have). That was a bad thing, and if it takes another Depression to beat some sense into us, maybe we deserve it and maybe we will benefit from it.
Doesn't mean we'll get one, but it appears we'll at least get a nasty recession as a wake up call.
February 6, 2009 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
I know you know . . .
Even those who wear Bruno Maglia's are eventually buried with them on there cold cold feet... and they are actually dead long before they die.
~OGD~
February 6, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, El Presidente.
Getting back to the "Protestant Work Ethic" and "The American dream" expresses much of what I am talking about. And I think sensible thinkers from any political party could hardly disagree with that!
February 6, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
In reality, the work ethic of the common American is no different today than it was two centuries ago. What is different is the ethics of those at the top and it is their indolence and profligacy that are to blame for the present crisis because they have grabbed nearly all of the power in our society for themselves. The American people needn't change their work ethic, what they need to change are the rules we operate under and to level the income and wealth distribution of the nation back to a sane and sustainable level. After all, it's no secret that a big part of the reason most common consumers rely on debt is because they are so vastly underpaid!
February 6, 2009 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We've had our differences and still do, but I as well am hopeful that this crisis will retore some of the character in the people of this country that made it great in the first place." - El Presidente
It's not the character of the common people that are the problem today. It's that the balance; the equilibrium of the system is far to much out of balance to restore itself.
Also, while subtle and perhaps intentional, you misinterpret SJ's and consequently the Steinbeck message in "Grapes of Wrath". Like in the book SJ references, it is the self-serving systematic selfish destruction by those in control over those in need that SJ addresses in his essay. By extension, you have implied that Steinbeck's message is that the Joads were where they were because of some deficiency of character within themselves. I don't accept this in the book and neither do I accept it as a depiction of common people today.
The "Ownership Society" was the foundation of the Bush economic philosophy. That it became so deeply corrupt is not surprising given the sophistication of hucksterism that was allowed to occur while saying nothing bad will happen because the "free market" will self regulate against it.
Now that the extreme free market theory has been so tragically discredited I am happily looking for a better way, though I am more pessimistic than you. I think the world is headed for a depression that may do for the Great Depression what Second World War did for the First World War. It gave it a numeral.
I may have to survive hardship another thirty years or so but, what kind of world did I voluntarily bring my children into. What do have to look forward to? What will they have to do to survive? That is what "The Grapes of Wrath" is about.
February 6, 2009 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great comment, mjeffn. Very thoughtful, and I agree absolutely with your reading of the book and my essay. Gritting teeth, yet hopeful. Determined, not resigned. It all seems rather incongruous, but it is what the workers have always done best - just get the job done!
February 6, 2009 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. I thought your essay was beyond fantastic and keep forgetting to tell you that your avitar is one of my favorite photographs of not only Studs Terkel, but all portraits ever.
February 6, 2009 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks!
The pic of Studs just says so much,don't it? It is my favorite portrait too.
I had the pleasure of meeting him @20 yrs ago. What an experience! The world is worse off for losing him, but I can only imagine the notes he is taking in his study of St. Peter and all the rest.
February 7, 2009 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, you misinterpret my intent.
I was pointing out, initially, a point of agreement between SJ and myself, not between myself and Steinbeck. I think "The Grapes of Wrath" was tragically dull and about as "Important" as "The Wizard of Oz", which was also a political polemic in its day. (Free silver: I guess you had to be there).
"It's not the character of the common people that are the problem today. It's that the balance; the equilibrium of the system is far to much out of balance to restore itself." -mjeffn
This, of course, is what I object to. How can you simultaneously decry the free market, and complain that the establishment is controlling everything in a circle of "selfish destruction"?
It isn't the character of any particular group of people that's the problem: common and uncommon we've all deteriorated in our willingness to work hard to get ahead. I blame, in part, a post-1960 tendency by government to encourage people to blame other people for their failures.
Wall Street bankers are no more and no less morally reprehensible for indulging in massive leveraged speculation than people leveraging themselves to infinity to buy houses and speculate on them. There's nothing wrong with speculation per se; but people need to be responsible about risk.
And they aren't, at any level of our society.
February 12, 2009 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thom Hartman talks about this a lot on his radio show.
The way Hartman explains it, up until 1980 or so, gains in productivity by American workers were tracked by gains in worker pay. In 1981, Reagan and his voodoo masters came along and saw an golden opportunity. They changed the system so that productivity gains would go to the richest segment of the society. BTW, since then worker pay has been pretty much flat. Problem was, if they did that alone the economy would come to a standstill because consumers wouldn't spend money if they didn't have any. The Reagan solution was to push easy credit. Instead of paying for new consumer goods out of increased pay, consumers would resort to ever-increasing debt. Second Mortgages, Home Equity Loans, Credit Card debt, anyway you look at it, its a smokescreen to cover the fact that the system's been rigged.
February 9, 2009 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which is fine, but doesn't actually comport with the facts.
Real incomes started levelling off in the 1960's and were flat starting in the Nixon Administration (one of the most interventionist on record, incidentally, even though Republican). Certainly, relatively less progressive tax policy under Reagan did nothing to arrest the perception of this trend, but taxes don't change incomes; they just decide how much of your income you get to keep.
The real factors at work are technological and (to some extent) cultural. The "Third World" thinks, acts, and usus technology a lot more like we do than it did in 1970, so we don't get to dominate economic life in the world as we once did.
February 11, 2009 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
If I may ask, can you cite your source for worker pay?
February 11, 2009 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Current Population Survey at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. However, since the BLS's website has gotten ever more byzantine (does anyone else remember how wonderful it was in 1995?), I'll link you to a chart that cites the tables I'd refer you to.
http://www.tcf.org/Publications/EconomicsInequality/wasow_nowhere.pdf
[At page 2, on top, is the relevant graph. I know it's a think tank report but the graph is legit, and TCF is pretty middle of the road (Leftish if anything) anyway.]
February 11, 2009 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks.
February 12, 2009 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're welcome.
I am very much into facts.
February 12, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
If I may ask, can you cite your source for worker pay data?
February 11, 2009 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time are tough all over.
There is a broad Socialist movement coming!!! Especially when everyone figures out that they want to be Socialist (have the government actively help in the crisis).
February 6, 2009 3:45 PM |