Follow up on high frequency trading
My last blog post on high frequency trading got a surprisingly wide reception – and was reprinted for several different audiences. The comments at Talking Points Memo were muted and did not touch the general angst about this issue. That is not surprising – that is a politics driven audience. The commentary at Business Insider was outright hostile with the general consensus being that I am an idiot. The reception on my own blog was balanced – with several people pointing out mistakes I made (and I made a few) and with most talking about the argument on its merits.
Still – one lesson – if you write an article that is not outright critical of Wall Street practice then you should expect to be called an idiot. I got endless emails asserting my stupidity.
All I wanted to really understand what the risks Goldman is taking to make all those trading profits. Sure I know most of them are fixed income – but the balance sheet is still in the trillion dollar range and this crisis has proved that ultimately these balance sheets get socialised. If taxpayers are ultimately on the hook then it is incumbent on taxpayers (at a minimum) to understand and manage the risks that they are taking through their regulatory agencies.
Anyway back to the hot-button issue which is electronic and high frequency trading.First – let’s discuss front running.
I gave an example of a stock that was bid $129.50, sell $131.50. I bid $129.55 and immediately a computer bid $129.60 over me. I called this front running.
I stand corrected – if someone (even proprietary traders associated with my own broker) bids $129.60 over my bid of $129.55 they are not committing the crime of “front running” – but using the public information in my bid to make a different bid.
It would only be front running if they (a) worked for my broker and (b) organised to have their bid filled preferentially at $129.55.
Of course from my perspective it makes not a rats difference whether they got in front of me at $129.55 or $129.56. That difference is less than 0.01 percent and if you are in my business (strict fundamental investing for medium and long term) it makes no sense to be worried about that sort of percentage. Front running as a crime might have mattered when notional spreads were wide and we did not have 1c pricing. But now the issue is just pricing over me and my clients - not whether those orders are legal or otherwise.
The issue is not front-running per-se (except maybe using my broader – non-criminal use of the term). The issue is that more often than not, as a smallish institution, we are forced to go to the middle of the spread or often cross the spread to get filled. Traders – whether they be bots or the old fashioned screen addicted traders of yore make a good proportion of their profits simply by consistently earning spreads. One old Sydney Futures Exchange trader (open outcry) admitted that (unsurprisingly) was how he made his living. Traders make profits on their short term positions (and sometimes make surprisingly good returns on equity). Those profits come out of somewhere – and I am not averse to the notion that Bronte and its clients pay a small share of them. I am not averse to the notion that clever algorithmic traders effectively “tax” other market participants (and I am not particularly scared of that loaded word “tax”).
Nonetheless the tax is small and the issue is not and should not be a target for major reform. The attention played in the blogosphere – driven in part by Zero Hedge – is simply not warranted.
To quantify: these days the spreads are often 1c on $15 shares (say 0.07 percent) and I can easily get brokerage at a tenth of a percent. I can often buy more than enough stock at the high end of spreads. Even if I lose to the algorithmic traders every time (and I accept that I do a fair bit) then – hey – I am paying 0.15 percent for trading. That is a lot better than it was in the old days when brokerage fees were fixed, large and non-negotiable.
Moreover as a fundamental driven investor the turnover in my portfolio is low. Ideally we will turn over less than once per three years – but as market volatility is high we seem to be getting more opportunities for good switches than that. I can’t imagine how the switching costs for Bronte Capital’s portfolio are higher than they were before brokerage reform even with the “tax” that high frequency traders impose on the rest of the market. [Likewise we trade currency with spreads of 1 point (ie down to the hundredth of a US cent). Only a few years ago we traded with 5 points of spread.]
This issue is – as I suggested – a distraction. There are plenty of real issues for financial reform – and one of the most important in my view being the large and seemingly wholesale funded balance sheets of investment banks. Nobody really understands these balance sheets but ultimately we (though the tax base) are guaranteeing them. That is what the slogan “no more Lehmans” means.
Can we focus where it matters? HFT remains a distraction.
John
PS. Thomas Peterffy pointed out in the comments to my last post that fairly good algorithmic trading is available to small institutions like Bronte at very low fees. (He should know – he is probably the single most important driving force behind electronic trading globally. However he is selling his own service.) If anything these programs reduce the “tax” paid by ordinary institutions such as Bronte even further. Peterffy thinks his algorithm tends to beat the electronic traders. We have not experimented enough to back that conclusion.
PPS. A reasonable summary is that old-fashioned traders earnt big spreads with quite a deal of sweat and only a modest degree of certainty. New fangled high frequency traders earn small spreads with high frequency and ruthless efficiency. But they are still smaller spreads.
PPS. Quantifications of this as a $20 billion issue are insane. Felix Salmon once took umbrage at my assertion that the pre-tax pre-provision profits of the financial sector in the US were at least $300 billion. That looks like an underestimate. He however swallows this insane number without too much question.
Read more at John Hempton's Weblog
















But my question is this. With the speed with which these trades are done and the volume, how can anybody be sure that they a legitimate and not some "hanky panky" like naked shorts and others that have been reported on.
C
July 29, 2009 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think this entirely the reason for the muted response. Some of us, (like me) simply don't have the background and the vocabulary to speak intelligently about this. I don't have a broker's account, I don't have any money in the market--everything sits in the government bond option my pension holder offers...too many lectures by grandpa and grandma in the late forties and early fifties scarred me for life. And I don't know how much faster a super-fast computer is than the HP desktop I type this on is.
I think I know a little more now, but not enough to keep from making an idiot of myself...I expect that eventually you'll fill in the gaps--or maybe give a quick idiots guide to this general subject. In the meantime, my favorite Front Runner by Patricia Nell Warren.
July 29, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not so much a matter of speed of the computer (although this could matter in some cases), as it is of the speed of the connection to the trading computers. The Goldman Sachs HFT operation takes place inside the same machine rooms as the market itself, so that GS' machines can "see" the trades pretty much as they happen. You or I, sitting way back in our living rooms tens or even hundreds of milliseconds further away from the "actual trading location" (as it were), have no chance of getting our orders in fast enough, no matter how fast our computers might be.
Fundamentally, what HFT is all about is extracting information. If the GS computer can get enough information on you, they wind up in an asymmetric position, where they know more than you do about the items being bought or sold. They can use this to make you pay more than you would if you had symmetric information.
July 30, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the lesson should be different. The crowd at TPM, and in generally people on the left, tend to be financially illiterate. That comes from a number of sources, including lower income and therefore less personal reasons to understand markets.
But I think the number one reason is that economics and finance are marked as right-wing domains. People who go to business school or study economics tend to hold right-wing/libertarian views. The fields themselves are highly ideological and therefore inhospitable to anybody with a social conscience, a very good effective deterrent.
This is deeply problematic because economics in our society is like theology in the Middle Ages, the Science of God and the common language of policy, and finance is the most important branch of engineering today, one that analyzes and guides the throbbing heart of power.
These are not new insights. Marx began his radical analysis of modern society by grappling with the work of classical economists and he and Engels pored over commodity prices and factory reports. But part of the demise of the left in the last half century is that today "marxism" is more often than not a theory of literary criticism, and nothing has replaced it.
That sorry situation is the background for the sentence you wrote:
We have allowed ourselves to be convinced of the right-wing ideological tenet that economics and finance are separate from politics, and that we can safely be ignorant of them. It is time to change gears. And TPM would be a better place if it assumed that finance IS politics and public financial education is more important, or at least as important, as healthcare and Middle East politics (my specialty).
There is no credible proposal for overhauling the financial system on the table. There is no serious thinking except "more regulation," no questioning of the banking system. What it does, what is should do, could its functions be provided in any other, better way? etc. And the absence of these discussions means that we have in fact conceded defeat on all the other issues as well, even if we are not necessarily aware of it.
August 1, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
To amike:
I write a finance blog which touches on politics - often quite directly. It was one of the go-to places for deep analysis of the Geithner bail-out plans for instance.
Because of the touching on politics it gets reprinted here - though its main following is in finance.
I do not write it for a TPM crowd - so I expect some posts to not be followed. But I appreciate the TPM crowd a great deal because their comments have very different perspectives to the ones given on my own blog. Also the readers of financial blogs are on average much more conservative than the readers of TPM - and the commentary reflects political bias.
I every now and again write a beginners guide - but there are only a few hours a week for blogging (I have a complex business to run). And a beginners guide does not suit the main audience.
---
To Cmaukonen:
As for the mischief like naked shorting - there is little mischief you can do if you trade 50 times a day that you can't do trading less frequently. What would it matter if someone was naked short for 20 minutes? Most of those mischiefs - like insider trading or naked shorting - require some time.
John
July 30, 2009 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
July 30, 2009 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, John.
I appreciate your posts here on TPM, and especially your follow up to read and reply to the comments -- others whose blogs are cross-posted here do not do that.
I try to follow and understand the markets, but I'm just a working stiff trying to look out for his own tiny nestegg. (I did manage to read the tea leaves well enough to move most of my money to cash equivalents back in the summer of 2007.)
I watch a bit of CNBC most days, and I know what you mean about the financial media tending to be more conservative. (I often find myself yelling at my TV!)
Anyway, I don't comment too much in general, and mostly I'm just sponging up the information in your posts. But rest assured that I do enjoy reading your perspective here.
I have just one request. Please give us all a heads up when it's finally safe to put our money back into the markets. Thanks. ;-)
-- ARG
July 30, 2009 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
The HFT enabled by algorithms and computers sounds to this uninitiated TPMer like:
An automated perpetual-motion machine that pulls money out of thin air by nickel-and-diming the accounts of investors (and now taxpayers).
Which might imply that the true meaning of "HFT" is not High Frequency Trading, but High Frequency Theft...
And you are saying that the profits generated by this device are insignificant in the big picture? And you are more concerned about:
"Nobody really understands these ("large and seemingly wholesale") balance sheets but ultimately we (through the tax base) are guaranteeing them."? And are you saying that the gargantuan profits in these balance sheets are generated by some other, unidentifiable means than HFT?
July 30, 2009 7:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Being someone who doesn't understand this well enough, my overall feeling is that this high frequency trading is another avenue for making money for only a select group that has the technology, and wherwithall to do it.
So to the casual observer, it looks just like another Wall St. game played at our expense.
July 30, 2009 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is—but if it is properly regulated, "our expense" is small, as John Hempton pointed out, and some of those expenses would be present (and perhaps larger anyway!) if things were different.
It only becomes something to be incensed about when you try to play in the same sandbox, as it were, and suffer from the information asymmetry I mentioned above. I prefer to play in a much longer-term sandbox, where the information that GS can glean is irrelevant.
July 30, 2009 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but if I go into a casino and play blackjack, and win consistently by counting cards, the casino will eventually ask me to leave and never come back. Even if I'm only winning a small amount each time.
That's what this sounds like: a skimming operation. Just because the amount of money is "small", doesn't mean it isn't wrong.
-- ARG
July 30, 2009 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is where "properly regulated" comes in: if you played and won consistent small amounts, but in doing so, caused the casino to no longer need to pay a dealer—and cost them less than that dealer used to—then (and only then) they would not kick you out.
July 30, 2009 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, I do not mean to imply that they are "properly regulated" now (I don't know; unlike the SEC, I do not have the legal authority to extract the information needed to run an analysis to find out whether the current situation really is similar to the replace-dealer-with-cheaper-guy-who-still-makes-money scenario above).
July 30, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would prefer the HFTs were not there.
Australia did not have a tradition of market makers and specialists (except in our futures exchange). There is no market making position here - though the high frequency traders exist here now too.
You can live with a market which has only real buyers and real sellers with no market makers. Its jsut that market makers do provide more instant liquidity. I remember the old days where you could not find a bid for a medium cap for two days if you wanted to sell it.
--
Now the truth is that market makers do not make liquidity in a crisis - so they don't really help when it really matters.
They offer a service. They scalp me for it. It doesn't matter much because the scalp is not really large - but they will not be there when I really need them.
High frequency theft of pennies is not wrong. But I think that is the quid-pro-quo of electronic trading, easy liquidity and low brokerage costs.
J
July 30, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Try this.
On a piece of paper, draw a straight line several inches long. Find the middle point, and put an X there.
Next, label one end of the line “investing” and the other end “gambling.”
Finally, put on the line, at various places, different kinds of money-related activities. For example, if gambling is on the right end of the line, next to it would be “slot machines,” then “roulette”, “stock markets,” “blackjack”, “horse racing,” etc.
Where ever you feel comfortable laying down your money is the right decision for you.
July 30, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The argument for HFT sounds to me exactly like the argument for insider trading: it increases liquidity, increases information flow (through price changes) and generally makes markets more efficient. But, as with insider trading, it just coincidentally happens that ordinary investors are on the losing side of all of those efficiency-increasing trades, and insiders (whether company or market) are on the gaining side of all of them.
And from the reporting I've seen, the early routing of information to market insiders, coupled with faster routing of their orders, makes frontrunning pretty much automatic. By the time your order actually hits the market-making machine, the HFT orders have changed the shape of the market.
July 31, 2009 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're right to point out our regulatory and political machinery should focus elsewhere; but in the same breath applaud that light bulbs are coming on everywhere in the electorate every time preferential treatment is given to powerful crooks who just begged for emergency relief and our tax dollars.
While the price HFT may ultimately cost individual investors very little, the uproar I believe is continued evidence to financial outsiders just how powerful the 'too big too fail' investment banks are. Goldman was profitable this year, because we bailed out them and AIG. Their positions were bad, their hedging mechanisms and counterparty guarantor decisions were terrible. Crappy job all the way around. Had Goldman been left to blow in the market winds, they would have had billions of losses.
So what did these geniuses do with the windfall they received? Underwrite public debt to stabilize home prices? Give equity to retain the talent they claim to so desperately need to retain? No, they paid unfathomly large bonuses to the very same jacka$$3s that engineered the disaster.
I'm psyched the bond markets survived, and the global banking system didn't collapse etc. Kudos, as a civilization we can make it to first base, and avoid Armageddon. But either show some f'n humility Wall Street; or face the wrath. We're fighting to get people basic healthcare and you're partying likes its 2006.
July 31, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Note your rhetoric:
"We are fighting for healthcare." But against whom? "You are partying." Implied is the message that "you" should be "with us." We're in it together, aren't we, why are you partying while we are fighting? But then, if wall street fought with us, against whom would we be fighting?
This is a populist, nationalist discourse, that distinguishes between the collective and the traitors. Reality check: Any collective that includes wall-street will stink. The fight for healthcare, or any other social good, is ipso facto against wall-street. They do not celebrate because they fail to fight with us against some nebulous enemy. They celebrate because they won the fight against us.
August 2, 2009 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink