I've discussed politics several times lately with my very conservative, very Christian older brother, and after watching this program, it because clear to me that the problem is that conservatives often seem to feel that their moral standards that they have arrived at by the practice of their particular religion gives them the right, even the responsibility, to apply to everybody else the rules that they live by. It never seems to occur to them that they can abhor homosexuality in every possible way, yet admit that a homosexual has the right to live their life as they see fit. I would love to have someone who knows the Bible better than I do point me to a passage that commands Christians to control everybody else's behavior.

Abortion, that huge wedge issue is, therefore, not capable of being debated by "pro-life" believers because in their minds it is simply and irrefutably wrong. On that particular item, I pointed out to my brother that whether he and I could ever agree about abortion, he has to admit that the conservatives didn't even try to overturn Roe v. Wade when they had the political might to do so and that the reason they didn't, in my view, is because they would then lose the guilt button that they push in every election, saying if you support that candidate who is pro-choice, then you are going against your religious beliefs and committing a sin.

As I said to my brother, "I know that you and I agree on many things in our hearts, but you're letting this particular belief blind you to the many ways in which you must disagree with conservative ideology BASED on your religious beliefs." It would shock him to his core if I suggested what I truly believe that liberal political beliefs are far closer to the teachings of Christ than conservative principles are.

Anyway, the truth is that until we can open a new dialogue, as Obama is attempting to do, about the ways in which we agree and put to the side those things about which we will never agree, we are condemned to an eternal struggle that only benefits the bigshots and the fatcats who laugh all the way to the bank. "Suckers!"

My response: Yippee, the TPM "thugs," of which group I am personally proud to belong, have WON! We've forced David Seaton to reveal himself as a big old wimp!

My recommendation: Hereafter, whatever David Seaton posts, just keep reminding yourself that he is an intellectually dishonest craven coward who doesn't stand for anything other than personal self-aggrandizement.

Oh, and did I mention his most tiresome habit of crapping all over Obama's victory? You know, the one so many of us worked so hard to achieve. And, oh, yeah, didn't even wait a few days to start doing it, thereby giving the rest of us a chance to bask in the blessed relief of the success we had attained. Talk about disrespecting the feelings of others because your own viewpoint is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT! Sorry we hurt your "widdle feelings," sir. Too bad you didn't give a damn about ours.

It's easy to be against things, movements, candidates, positions. It's a hell of a lot harder to support and work for something, knowing all the while that it won't be perfect. Perhaps you're unaware of this, but one of President-Elect Obama's favorite sayings is "that the perfect is the enemy of the good." Liberals, tending as we do to be idealists, have a hard time accepting that we have to settle for something less than the goal we are shooting for, but it's a hell of a lot better than having no goals or aspirations beyond the lining of your pockets and those of your cronies, the way the Republicans have acted, and continue to act, even after they pressed a gun to our collective heads and demanded that we "save" the financial system. And then have the nerve to proclaim Obama to be a socialist. God, they certainly don't lack gall, or a perverse sense of humor.

Seaton, I mean this is all due respect, Shut the Hell Up! You moved to another country. Enjoy yourself in the Spanish sunshine in the waning years of your life, but cease to presume that you know what's best for the country you abandoned. I recognize that you have a RIGHT to express youself, but today was the wrong day to do so. Even that shameless, opportunistic panderer McCain congratulated Obama on his victory. Too bad that you lack the grace and humility to do the same.

It's easy to be against things, movements, candidates, positions. It's a hell of a lot harder to support and work for something, knowing all the while that it won't be perfect. Perhaps you're unaware of this, but one of President-Elect Obama's favorite sayings is "that the perfect is the enemy of the good." Liberals, tending as we do to be idealists, have a hard time accepting that we have to settle for something less than the goal we are shooting for, but it's a hell of a lot better than having no goals or aspirations beyond the lining of your pockets and those of your cronies, the way the Republicans have acted, and continue to act, even after they pressed a gun to our collective heads and demanded that we "save" the financial system. And then have the nerve to proclaim Obama to be a socialist. God, they certainly don't lack gall, or a perverse sense of humor.

Seaton, I mean this is all due respect, Shut the Hell Up! You moved to another country. Enjoy yourself in the Spanish sunshine in the waning years of your life, but cease to presume that you know what's best for the country you abandoned. I recognize that you have a RIGHT to express youself, but today was the wrong day to do so. Even that shameless, opportunistic panderer McCain congratulated Obama on his victory. Too bad that you lack the grace and humility to do the same.

I think the best thing about where we are right now is that despite all the snarky comments made by the other side about our having "swallowed the koolaid," I don't feel that's true of me or, indeed, anybody else I know that supports Obama. We don't expect him to be perfect and, given the exceptionally large load of crap that he's being handed by the supremely incompetent Cheny-Bush team, I think most of us will be content if he merely keeps the horror from sliding into the abyss.

At any rate, I share with you the feeling of solidarity that has come from participating in democracy this time around. I have given a lot of time to campaigns in the past, particularly Dukakis and Carter, but this time I gave a little money, made a few phone calls and spent way too much time on HuffPo and TPM and 538, not to mention the daily addiction of Electoral-Vote.com. I hope my slender contribution was enough. It is clear that all of our little efforts have combined to make a might whole.

I feel strangely calm for the first time in a long time and very, very proud to be alive and participating in such a wonderful moment! This tired old liberal can hardly believe that we are on the verge of electing a half black man of such an exotic background and with such a strange name... but, boy, I'm glad I lived long enough to see it happen! Thank you, NCSteve and Lis and Donal and TheraP and countless more that I can't remember the names, for being part of this remarkable community.

Please explain to us why we should care what you think of Obama. He had you but he lost you. Boo-effing-hoo! You try running for the Presidency of the United States and then get back to us on whether we should be hailing you as a genius or reviling you as a destroyer. What have you done in your entire life that entitles you to carp about the achievements of Barack Obama? I mean, really, what? If he pulls this off, try and let it sink in for just a nanosecond all that he had to do to make it happen and just how very unlikely it all was. What perfection should he have been capable of that would have earned your lasting loyalty?

If I have not yet said enough to express my disdain for your position, please read this, that I posted to your fellow jaded cynic, David Seaton:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/david_seaton/2008/11/at-least-i-wont-have-to-pay-th.php

I don't know what you think about such historic figures as Gandhi, Ronald Reagan or Nelson Mandela, but they are also people who were raised to an almost cult-like status by the hopes and dreams that people projected onto them. I am suggesting that the elevation of such a leader is an amazing dance between the intensity of focus that the leader projects in attempting to make a break with the past, married to the needs and aspiratios of a huge number of people.

My own feeling is that if Obama winds up disappointing us, it will be less because he has mislead us about what he hopes to achieve, than that he finds the burden he assumes to be both far more difficult that he can imagine, than anyone could solve, coupled with the usual suspects of apathy and vicious clinging to power which precludes progress in every age of man.

I love my brother, but we cannot talk politics because there's no basis of understanding. He thinks abortion is the only issue that matters. If I point out that it is a ploy that the conservatives use very successfully to get support, so successfully that they never actually DO anything about it because that would lose them a wedge issue, my brother becomes unhappy with my argument, but it doesn't change our relative stances and beliefs.

So, I'm sorry for you, Clever Bulldog, because you have chosen to believe a smear campaign that doesn't hold up when subjected to impartial scrutiny. You will never admit you're wrong, but will continue to filter every positive report about President Obama through your extremely slanted view of the world.

I would venture to say that even if President Obama manages to be a very good manager of our national crises in an extremely difficult time, he will get no credit from his opposition, no admission that their beliefs were incorrect, based on lies intended to provoke passion.