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A little perspective on Josh Marshall's blog about the crazy EU president


Josh Marshall recently wrote in this post about the strange case of Mirek Topolanek, currently the EU president who recently described Obama's bailout plan as a road to hell.

This prompted TPM reader artappraiser to admonish Mr. Marshall in this post, and to make the assertion that Mr. Topolanek is in fact somehow speaking, if not for Europeans, then for European governments, who aren't so keen on throwing money at the global recession in a Keynesian fit of action.

Well that got alot of people talking, some of whom rightly pointed out that Europeans already throw public money at their economies even when they're doing fine, and others who seemed to agree in some way or another with artappraiser's basic premise, namely that Europe is alarmed at this spending and that Mr. Topolanek is a symptom of a broader attitude and not simply a spoiled boorish politician who lacks even the most basic sense of tact and finesse and who most Europeans wish would simply disappear.

Neither artappraiser nor Mr. Marshall are wrong in a way, but there is a piece missing to this puzzle, namely basic awareness of the political landscape over here. The Czech Republic is on the frontier between Western Europe and Eastern (i.e. former communist) Europe. Folks in Western Europe are really tired (that is to say, we've sort of had it) with bailing out folks in Eastern Europe. Economies like say Latvia, have already received billions of euros in EU aid and just keep coming back for more. Now this isn't like California bailing out Alabama. Most Western Europeans haven't the slightest feeling of solidarity with these countries and only see them as foreign powers who show up in Brussels hat in hand and run back home without even a thank you, nor a promise, much less a plan, as to how to account for the money. I doubt many Americans would take kindly bailout money being shipped to places like Panama or Equador, even if the economies needed it, and watching it disappear without so much as projection or balance sheet blown our way.

So, politicans like Topolanek, who are sitting in that strange no man's land between East and West, and who are eager to show strength and solidarity with Western Europe, are only too eager to show how averse they are to bailout plans (and it doesn't hurt to court a few right wing American politicians while you're at it). But Josh Marshall is not wrong to point out that the EU president has way outstepped his reach. Obama's plan is widely thought to be necessary in France and in Germany and Sarkozy and Merkel are both trying to pledge support to Obama (which is a popular move) and find some way to pump money into the European economy without enraging a population that is already hurting and watching tax dollars flow away to nebulous propped up governments (now Americans can certainly understand that kind of rage right now I think)...

Sound like a strange inverted AIG scenario to anyone? It is very much like that, and it's on a continental scale...

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Some useful insight that you provide. Thanks. :)

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You wrote a great post with excellent argument, but I think that despite all the nuanced context it only reinforces the argument made by artappraiser and others:

(1) that Europeans are dealing with different economic issues than we do,

(2) that government spending (and by inference, the tax levels) are already huge,

(3) and the fact that they are now spending even more to bailout their EU members states

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I concede your points Lalo, the additional argument I was trying to make (and undoubtedly did not stress enough) was that Europe is very relieved to see Obama's plan (far from seeing it as a "road to hell") because most Europeans realize that their recovery is intimately tied to the US' so Topolanek is misconstruing our position on the US bailout and in doing so, becomes a pawn of the right wing in the US. His speech at the heritage foundation is front and center on his website...

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Correct me if I'm wrong: The EU expanded to include the Czech Republic for a reason, right? So, what was the reason?

Yet you and Josh Marshall both give the distinct impression that some Europeans are better than others. (Phrases like Mr. Topolanek is a symptom of a broader attitude and not simply a spoiled boorish politician who lacks even the most basic sense of tact and finesse and who most Europeans wish would simply disappear and Folks in Western Europe are really tired (that is to say, we've sort of had it) with bailing out folks in Eastern Europe and politicans like Topolanek, who are sitting in that strange no man's land between East and West give me that impression, anyway.)

It seems the member states should have foreseen such elitism and management problems before expansion.

Now that there's a global crisis, it's a good time to work out these kinks, no?

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Thanks for your comment readytoblowagasket, but the EU is not like the United States. It is a loose economic community (like North and South America) but it is NOT a political nor a cultural community. The EU doesn't even have a constitution because no one will vote for it.

That changes the ball game. European leaders add countries as part of a political chess game but their populations have little say in it.

So this isn't elitism, it's just plain resentment that our tax euros go to other countries that we don't see at all as part of our country or our economy. Americans would be apoplectic to see dollars flowing to NAFTA coutnries wouldn't they?

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You're not British, are you?

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No, I'm American, but I have lived in France for over ten years. I strongly identify myself with continental European politics and culture.

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Americans would be apoplectic to see dollars flowing to NAFTA coutnries wouldn't they?

Um, no. They aren't nor have they ever been. I suppose that the idea is that by lifting our neighbors we lift ourselves. At least, that is how they sold it, but of course, that is not how it worked out.

As for tax dollars and South America, well lookie here.

There might be a few who squawk, (like bankers demanding bonuses from bankrupt banks), but it is part of America's character to reach out to help people in need.

Just sayin'

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I am well aware of America's generosity (I am American and pay taxes too) and I know that alot of public and private money flows to NAFTA countries. But when is the last time Congress voted for 800 billion dollars for a NAFTA country?

We are talking about significant portions of European countries' GDP flowing to economies whose participation in European market flow is minimal. That is why it is such a hard sell.

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Point taken, Jane.

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Bwak, if you're genuinely interested in this topic, forget about the NAFTA argument or any "road to hell" distractions.

Simon Johnson has a very readable article about the upcoming G20 meeting that provides succinct background info about the financial problems across Europe and lays out the potential ramifications for us all: G20's real agenda should be saving Europe from itself. I mention it because I think you (in particular) would appreciate Johnson's perspective.

This is from Johnson's blog:

My point is not that Europe is in big trouble, with no plausible regional rescue mechanisms in place. This is completely obvious - the debate among prominent Europeans is now whether or not to send distressed eurozone members to the IMF, and on what basis.

Focus on this instead: the European banking and fiscal fiasco is a dagger pointed at the heart of major US banks, which have a great deal of exposure - one way or another - to much of Europe. Ask any U.S.-based ”global bank”.

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Thanks Gasket, I shall read this and get back to you. I am interested, but utterly ignorant, I'll try and fix that.

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Thanks for this recommendation Gasket. I'll read it as well...

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Bail out the Baltics and you bail out the Nordic banks.

But then, an EU put was what Swedbank and SEB always counted on. After all wasn't that the prime reason that Sweden joined the EU in the first place.

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Hi Jane, I am Dick. I always wanted to say that.

Really fascinating, you and Artappraiser on this 'issue' or bundle of issues. What is the relationship between the U.S. and Europe.

Ellen, above me, is another expert on this. It is fascinating also, as you point out, we say goodby to a president few in Europe liked and we bring in a new guy that many in Europe adore. And now the representatives of those people have to take into consideration this adoration.

Wow.

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Well at least you didn't crack the Tarzan joke (of which I am a perpetual victim)...I much prefer being reminded of the staples of childhood reading!

Thanks for your comment and for letting me know about your interest in these things too.

I spend alot of time in Europe convincing people that the US is a very complex place and not to be oversimplified into (MacDonald's, 50 cent, and 24) but I find the same is true of Americans who aren't always aware that we are even more divided here!

And yes, I will be relieved to see the Presidency rotate to Sweden as well!

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Jane B.

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