On "Failure": What Is the Difference?
Rush Limbaugh:
"I hope Obama fails."
"So what is so strange about saying I want Barack Obama to fail if his mission is to reconstruct and reform this nation so that capitalism and individual liberty are not its foundation?"
Jonah Goldberg:
I hope Obama fails, too!
Rep. Mike Pence:
"You bet, we want those policies to fail. Because, Rick, we know big government, increases in debt, the micromanagement of the economy out of Washington, DC is a policy that will fail."
Rick Santorum:
"Conservatives absolutely want Obama to fail."
Mitt Romney:
"I want liberal policies to fail. I want him to fail in trying to put in place a health care plan that takes away the private sector from health care. I want him to fail in this cap and trade program...
Paul Krugman:
But the real problem with this plan is that it won't work. ... And no amount of financial hocus-pocus -- for that is what the Geithner plan amounts to -- will change that fact.
[...]
If this plan fails -- as it almost surely will -- ...
All is not lost: the public wants Mr. Obama to succeed ...
[All emphases mine. Please note that Mr. Krugman does not say he wants Mr. Obama to succeed. Just that public wants him to succeed.]
Is it okay when the calls for failure come from the progressive left?
Do we get all bent out of shape only when the catcalls emanate from the right?
Or is forecasting failure -- as both Limbaugh did BEFORE Obama was inaugurated, or Krugman has done BEFORE this latest and earlier policies were officially announced wrong on both counts?
Inquiring minds want to know...
... like playing "Stump the Band."
March 24, 2009 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wanting the policies to fail is STUPID no matter who says it. If the policies fail, the American people are screwed. We're in unprecedented territory. This isn't the time for politics or grandstanding.
Forecasting failure ? hmmmm That's a trick question.:) The gut answer would be to champion freedom of speech. I think the trick to this question is to ask another question. Should we allow pundits, media personalities, op ed's, etc., tell us how to think? I say no. If we think for ourselves, or do our own research, we can agree with or discard the forecast.
March 25, 2009 5:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jade, come on!
"Is it okay when the calls for failure come from the progressive left?"
Krugman isn't 'calling for failure'. He's evaluating a plan intended to resolve a credit crisis, and saying that as it stands it will not work. When a friend intends to do something stupid, I tell him it's stupid. What do you do?
March 25, 2009 6:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Krugman said "as it almost surely will" ...
I'm asking the obvious question here: how is that different from Republicans -- or anyone else asking or calling for Obama's policies or him to fail.
I'm also noting that -- as my friends in the MSM say -- "some people" went ballistic over very similar comments from their Republican or conservative counterparts. Even today, Bobby Jindal's remarks at a fundraiser ("Do I want Obama to fail. It depends on what he's trying to do,") is not unlike what Krugman said.
I think it's a fair question. And I think we can ask it with a straight face.
March 25, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Desires vs predictions... you see no distinction?!
March 25, 2009 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Do we get all bent out of shape only when the catcalls emanate from the right?"
You get bent out of shape just thinking that someone - anyone - disagrees with Obama's policies. Just like the republicans went bananas when the other half of the talking heads wanted Bush to fail.
It's amazing how many people on the blogs live in this bubble of fighting 24/7 over what talking heads say.
And since the vast majority of them are not activists or policy wonks, the "red" blogs and the "blue" blogs are different in name only - most people here are the totally captive after-market for Op-Eds, news "analysis" on Fox/MSNBC, etc, and what goes on on each side is identical.
It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing.
The finger-pointing, the hate of each other, the near-total mirroring of the news cycle - sad, useless and impotent waste of energy.
My point is this - what does it matter to you what Rick Santorum said or Rush or Krugman???
Don't you have something better to do than to think whether or not it's wrong to want someone to fail or "forecast" they will?
Why let your opinion be defined by agreement/opposition to what Rush says?
March 25, 2009 9:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like asking people like you questions that you might think are "shallow" or unimportant, because this is the "meat" of news cycle after news cycle.
Here are some points you can take or leave:
Am I hypocrite if I complain about the Republicans and not about the Democrats who do the same thing?
Yep.
March 25, 2009 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jade,
This is pretty shallow, really.
Krugman in his analysis (with his expertise) is reaching a conclusion administration policies will fail; I see nothing wrong with that. You are welcome to use a different analysis to debate his opinion.
That's very different from people with politcal agendas wanting this country as a whole to fail under Obama- for reclaiming the power in D.C.
I think you sold yourself short, when you read Rush and Krugman in the same breath.
March 25, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it is foolish - right or left - to wish for Obama's efforts in addressing the economic crisis to fail. There is an awful lot at stake, and a lot of folks inside and outside the US who are getting chewed up and spit out by the collapse. However, having concerns over the policies and their potential effectiveness is fair game.
I supported Obama, and continue to do so. However, I have grave issues with trying to put the wheels back on a system that is rigged to exploit and extract the "wealth" of the people. Throwing money into the market and the banks without restructuring the financial markets is ill conceived - in my opinion. As I have stated before elsewhere, it is like trying to put out a fire with a leaky bucket. We have already seen this with AIG bailout funds going to pay investment insurance obligations at major banks (who are also receiving their own bail out funds). Meanwhile, the people are getting virtually nothing. People are continuing to lose their homes (both purchasers and renters), while their former abodes go on the auction block and Obama plans to stimulate "private" investors. There is something wrong with this picture.
It is our job to keep government and politicians honest - whether that is someone who we dislike or someone whom we fully support.
March 25, 2009 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jade you sure know how to pound a point home. Good cites, good blog.
We need to make these lists from time to time or we tend to forget.
I have no idea how I missed this yesterday.
March 25, 2009 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right on target, we need to criticize and criticism of the constructive sort is a boon to the administration. Of course, there are those that wish to derail progress so timing is important and contextual clarity as well.
March 25, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it okay when the calls for failure come from the progressive left?
Here's a more pertinent question: Is it okay to willfully misconstrue Paul Krugman's point just to write a blog on Talking Points Memo?
March 25, 2009 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink