Smackdown? Who You Kiddin'?
On the front page, Josh suggests that Joan Walsh "smacked down" Christopher Hitchens today on Hardball.
She may have talked over him -- and I would dispute even that -- but but far from "smackdown." Walsh suggested that "Hillary-" or "Clinton-haters" are an eccentric, small group of people. I dispute that too.
Hitchens was far more blunt in his assessment of what the Clinton problems are. Now that her appointment to Secretary of State is official, those of us who disagree with it, must live with it for the time being. I don't always agree with Christopher Hitchens, but when it comes to the former President and the Secretary-designate, we agree.
But to suggest that Ms. Walsh, who never met a Clinton she didn't like, and in my removed and humbled opinion, has some serious issues with the other kind of "working, hardworking Americans" who weren't Hillary voters -- including Michelle Bernard of the Independent Women's Forum, was anything more today than a "yes-woman" to Chris Matthews, is simply ludicrous.
Just an alternative viewpoint from someone who is weary of Walsh.





Here's my question re: Hitchens.
Why does anybody give this guy, who needs to be a 12 step program, a forum? My sense is Clinton could be the greatest choice in the history of US foreign policy and he would still find something terribly wrong with it. His vision is narrow and colored by some deep seeded Clinton dislike.
All that said I was no fan of Hillary for President, far from it, but I am willing to give both Obama and Hilary the benefit of the doubt until I'm proven wrong.
December 1, 2008 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've found myself asking this question repeatedly over the last year! I guess he's no less relevant than "Joe the Plumber".
December 1, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah, real let down. no smackdown.
December 1, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hitchens is an idiot and I don’t want him on TV but I saw the entire exchange and it was Joan Walsh who behaved like the consummate villager. Appealing to Hitchens with “I’ve had dinner at your house” and “we’ve had drinks together” was pretty embarrassing and in an earlier exchange she went on about someone, can’t remember who, “so and so is my friend’ etc. She was awful. Why on earth would JM cheer for that performance?
December 1, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, "smackdown" seems a bit strong for that exchange. I watched it twice, thinking I missed something the first time. Nope. Just wasn't much "smack" in that "down". Rec'd.
December 1, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Smackdown? REALLY??
The only smackdown I saw was Hitchens challenging Joan to cite a SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE for her Clinton-ass-kissing statements. As with Sarah Palin, she had no evidence whatsoever to offer. Her refusal to 'play that game' (as she said) is the liberal version of Palin's "I'll get back to ya!"
Hitchens does not suffer pedantic fools gladly - and he obviously considered Hillary's clone to be spouting more than her usual share.
December 1, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Irrelevant to this argument, Hitchens is also a pedantic fool, in all fairness.
December 2, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I too find it strange to be agreeing with Hitchens. No, Walsh for some reason reminded me of Laura Bush in that exchange... I'd have to see it again to figure out why
Hoping for the best now that Hillary is a done deal. Her confirmation process is likely to bring out some skeletons though.
December 2, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
This delights me to no end.
December 2, 2008 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wish you'd go ahead and just blow that damn gasket. The pressure has got to be killing your brain cells.
And you missed the operative words "for the time being." There is still a tough Senate confirmation hearing and as we all know from "West Wing:" One serves at the pleasure of the President.
December 2, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Tough" senate confirmation? So what if it's tough? In the end, who exactly is going to stand in Hillary Clinton's way? The Democrats? Please, delight and enlighten me further with your prescient predictions.
December 2, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Get a life, 'gasket.
December 2, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Got one, thanks!
December 2, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are the Clinton haters a small, eccentric group? It depends if you mean Republican Clinton haters or Democratic Clinton haters.
79% of Democrats support Clinton as Secretary of State, along with 57% of independents.
Only 12% of Democrats oppose the nomination. They are joined by 61% of Republicans.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/112012/Most-Americans-Back-Idea-Clinton-Secretary-State.aspx
It is fitting that the meager, eccentric group of Democrats who oppose the appointment should make common cause with the majority of Republicans, since both groups see Hillary Clinton as a Disney-villainess rather than a human being and a politician. For example, during the primaries many of this eccentric group of Democrats, this meager 12%, claimed that Hillary Clinton called for Obama's assassination. Now they must explain to themselves how Obama could appoint someone who could do such a thing.
December 2, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please get your head out of your butt, no one ever said that she "called for his assassination", they said that she implied the idea that he would be assassinated, no more, no less. Don't make a fool of yourself again.
December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
My memory of the vituperation surrounding Clinton's remark may be inaccurate. I therefore withdraw that specific claim, but my main point is that Democratic Clinton haters are an eccentric group, about 12% of the Party judging by this poll, and that many of them view her not as a politician but as a caricature of a politician consumed by a ruthless ambition. They share this view with the majority of Republicans.
December 2, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you on Walsh. Actually, I have never thought she was a particularly interesting voice.
I do, however, enjoy Hitchens, who is smart, opinionated, often rude, sometimes right, and always good for an angle that I hadn't thought of.
December 2, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hitchins is a very rarely observed species of Conservative. He is an intellectual and, hated by the right for his atheism.
December 2, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
This newfangled Google thing on the internet is a fun diversion sometimes. In a few seconds, with the right keywords, you can not only discover people's interests, but also their obssessions and demons...
May 27, 2008, a Jade7243 wrote this letter on Salon.com:
It also gives you about 144 more results for "Jade7243 assassinated Hillary RFK," including comments by Jade7243 scattered allover the blogosphere and other political sites.
There is also a downside to this Google thingie. What to do to with this knowledge? I admit, I am reluctant to get dragged into such serious obssession; the Clintons and Joan Walsh are not personal friends of mine, why should I get involved? Maybe people like David Brock, Richard Mellon Scaife or Bob Barr could refer to a 12-Step group for Clinton Derangement Syndrome?
December 2, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, promise me you will stay out of my trash.
December 2, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's your point, AA? I don't see anything scandalous in Jade's comment from Salon. Are you trying to discredit her here?
Jade has a solid history posting here at TPM. Don't think she's hiding anything.
December 2, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
AA's point is that Jade7243 is a troll.
Heh. I called that one long ago.
December 6, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink