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Clinton Derangement Syndrome: What is the deal?


  What is with everyone and their impassionate, borderline delusional, Clinton fixation. If President Elect Obama wants her to be SoS, so be it. I remember a couple of what Obama should do to win, Obama is wrong, If only Obama would... stories. Yet, somehow miracoulosy he won, WITHOUT YOUR ADVICE- this goes for the press and kos, MyDD, HuffPo and everything else. WE. WON. Seriously, I know everyone is looking for a hobby now that the election is over, but this constant chattering about is she in to cut him off at the knees ( I'm looking at you Tweety Mathhews) or OH NOES!!!! The Clinton Retreads... We voted for change (I'm looking at you Kossacks). Seriously, the left is borderline becoming as infantile as the right wingers. We voted for him, meaning we trust his judgement- sure we can disagree, but to start a mutiny? Please, people, calm down.

 

Could I also, mention that Hilliary Clinton is qualified. I am a woman, and although I supported Barack in the primaries, I was concerned with all the vitriol raised at Hillary. How is that she is only judged through the prism of her tenure as first lady, she has been a senator, you know? I know they will make a great team, and just as I did on Nov 5- when I read all the Why Obama can't win, or what Obama has to do stories, I will read the same Middle East Peace achieved, Iraq war over, and Bin Laden captured stories in the next few years. I hope everyone will take a laxative or a knee (for the football fans) and let the president elect PRESIDE over his own presidency. Also, what the hell is with all why is he not hiring Dennis Kucinnich kind of person, one reason- TO GET THINGS DONE. No he has not named a flaming liberal (kucinnich) or a The Coming Dooming Conservative (Coburn). He is actually hiring people to ,gaspp, get things done. So no more, where are the liberals, latinos, blacks, asians, indians, jamacains, latvian orthodoxies, amish, STORIES.

 

Because guess what, if Obama succeeds, so do these people. He didn't run on identity politics, and he should not goern on identity politics.


20 Comments

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I'm not sure where the "borderline delusional" comes in. And I'm partial to using words correctly.

Beyond that, I think we can trust Obama's right and good sense to make the selections to his own Cabinet.

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The borderline delusion is all this machiavellian (hope I spelled right) talk. Is she going to Lady MacBeth him, will she poison his grape juice, what will Bill do or when, is it all a ploy- I mean is it that impossible to imagine that he might think she can do a swell job. Heaven's sake, I think especially the press gets a hard on (sorry for the graphic detail) everytime the word Clinton is mentioned. Especially Tweety, he can't even get the words out fast enough.

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I guess I just ignore that kind of stuff. I think folks need to obsess about something at the moment. And honestly, once things get to a certain level, I'm always suspicious of repub trolls, posing as Dems. Thanks for the clarification here.

My view is that the hoopla is really a way of attacking Obama. After all, if he's ok with it, fine by me!

What's your grad field?

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Yeah I guess, since the trolls have little use for NRO and freepers they go on other websites. My grad field is biomedical engineering- TRYING TO SAVE THE WORLD- it's tough in grad school, because books are useless as well as articles. You can do an experiment 10 times over the moon and not replicate a consistent answer. So, I relax with politics and sports. But, now they are both starting to give me heartburn. I just can't wait till his presidency starts, I know there will be bumps, but it is better than Mr. George Idle Bush. I know he is a lame duck president, but he is by far, the best lame duck president. He is not even trying, I mean I hate to be a doom and gloomer, but the entire banking industry is collapsing and this guy gives a 30 sec press conference. And the arrogance of Paulson is palpable, you hold the American people hostage claming the second coming if we don' t give you 700 billion dollars, we do AND BANKS ARE STILL FAILING. What the hell is going on? I just think that the chasm between politicians and working people has become so wide, that neither side can see each other. We can't believe why the Iraq war is not over, why earmarks are controversial and spying on Americans is NOT- and they can't believe we are hurting- because they sure as hell are not doing anything about it. This would be a funny reality show, if it were not our reality.

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You can do an experiment 10 times over the moon and not replicate a consistent answer. So, I relax with politics and sports. But, now they are both starting to give me heartburn.

Well, you might have to forgive some of us for not putting so much stock in the opinions of someone who admits that politics is for them mainly a diversion, similar to following team sports. Politics is also about changing the world. But it appears the whole substance of your tantrum is based on the fact that all this second-guessing of beloved Coach Barack is spoiling your fun, giving you heartburn, and interfering with your pleasure in rooting for the home team.

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Tantrum? I'm confused by your taking offense, Dan: Who's having the tantrum here?

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I would say it's generally the person whose post has lots of capital letters and exclamation points.

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I'm on board with you. I'm looking for meaningful change - new and innovative ideas, and a new way of getting things done. Obama wants to get things done, for real. He could take the easy way out though: Appoint people we've never seen before, give the appearance of change to make the pundits and lefties happy and then do nothing for the next 4-8 years!

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You're a graduate student? In what? I would expect that a post by a graduate student aiming to make a case for Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, the cabinet position chiefly involved in the formulation and conduct of US foreign policy, would spend a bit more time on Clinton's actual foreign policy record and positions, and a little less time on personality politics and lowbrow blogospheric ephemera.

Since a large proportion of the opposition to Clinton among Democrats during the primary was based on her foreign policy record, it is surely reasonable to expect that a lot of those opponents would continue to have objections to her being placed in the nation's top foreign policy job. And despite your attempt to turn this into another personality-and-process story, of the kind beloved by the political media, most of the opponents of Clinton appear to be grownups, with actual convictions and policy preferences, who aren't going to be satisfied with "I trust Barack, cuz he's awesome!" responses to their concerns.

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Wow Dan K hate to be a doom and gloomer, but if you are soooo passionate about politics- why don't you run. And as far as me having a life, and using politics and sports to relax- um, its called get one- a life that is. I am beyond glad Obama made all of the shots, and not bow down to the all mighty net roots. Maybe you are a little teed that I compared some to the freepers or the right wing trolls- but does it help by furiously typing on the keyboards with your I want this person as that. No. Again, I think so many people are missing out on reality-especially those in the blogosphere- there are people suffering out there and hoping that someone hears them. Maybe their faith in Obama is messiah-like-so what. What is wrong with having faith that something good will happen, yes he is human, and yes he will dissapoint- but do you honestly think someone gives a damn about hillary saying yes to the Iraq war now, NO. She made a damn mistake, apologize or not, so did the majority of the coutnry- we all wanted to go to war with those who attacked us. So for you to base her vote on Iraq as her entire being is so not fair. I used to enjoy in all of these shenanigans during the primary and the hillary bashing- but now looking back- I WAS FOOLISH. what good does it do for us to bash her,none. We are still in Iraq, and you know Dan K -Biden also voted for the war- why aren't you up his ass, his votes align more with Hillary than Barack- hopefully one of these days you will grow up and realize there are bigger things than yourself. Until then, keep furiously typing on your Dell computer at Starbucks, waiting till 2012 when it will be Dean/Kucinnich 2012. Until, then I will get back to my reality. You get back to whatever you call yours.

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Good for you, Graduate Student!

An uplifting piece written by one of your cohort:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/24/EDS3149R09.DTL

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There is nothing wrong with having confidence in a political leader, Graduate Student. I have a fair amount of confidence in Obama, which is why I supported him fairly zealously for the nomination and the presidency. But I would suggest that our obligations as citizens consist in more than just getting good people elected, and then sitting back secure in our "faith" that that leader will do what we want. It's our job to be informed, and participate vigorously in the whole process of government, not just the elections part.

Obama emphasized repeatedly during the campaign that he wanted and expected bottom up participation in the process of government. Debating who should be selected for cabinet positions, promoting the people you support, and challenging and criticizing those you oppose, is precisely the kind of participation he is talking about. It's not a mutiny" to object to his decisions; it's citizenship.

Unless you are actually breaking the law, there is in fact no way for you to "mutiny" in this country, certainly not by expressing your opinion as far as your voice will reach. Barack Obama is not your captain. He will soon be your president, which means he is a public servant who works for you. It is your job to tell him what to do from time to time, especially on the most important decisions, and to work with others to push the government into making wise decisions. If you are not second-guessing the president from time to time, you are probably not doing your job.

Cabinet appointments are extremely important decisions that will have a large role in how the country is governed over the next four years. They happen early on, but are among the most important decisions Obama will make. It really does make a difference whom he picks, and you should pay attention. Do you think Barack Obama just makes these picks all alone with his conscience? He has hundreds of powerful people weighing in all day, people whose opinions and interests he is under enormous pressure to serve. If you and others like you don't provide a counterweight to that pressure, your interests will be neglected in favor of the interests of the powerful.

Candidates and presidents do pay attention to what is being said in blogs, newspaper editorials and other similar venues. A president's ability to get things done, and pass a legislative agenda, depends on his ability to keep the good will and support of a majority of the people, who will be making their wishes and feelings known to their elected representatives in Congress. That gives you a certain amount of power. Not a lot; not as much as Bill Gates; not as much as Ben Bernanke. But some. And by working with others in a coalition you can multiply your power.

I think you are wrong about the powerlessness of the blogs. We heard several times during the campaign that the voices of folks on the blogs may have had some influence on candidates' decisions. There is at least some good anecdotal evidence, for example, that the Obama campaign was close to selecting Evan Bayh as its VP candidate, but turned away from him due in part to a blogospheric uproar.

Based on your comments, I would guess you actually know little about Hillary Clinton's foreign policy record. I won't review the long history of debate about that record, which goes far beyond a single Iraq War vote. But I think if you were better informed you might have a different perspective on the debate over whether she is the best person to be in charge of the State Department.

For some people, myself included, foreign policy positions constituted our strongest reasons for opposing Clinton's bid for the nomination. If we had wanted Clinton to be directing our foreign policy, we would have voted for her. This isn't just some sort of cranky "netroots" position, but was a widespread view among many Democrats all across the country. That doesn't mean I can't think of any good reasons for appointing Clinton. She is smart and hard-working, and has a a lot of important global connections. So she brings a lot to the table. And their are good political reasons related to party unity, and Obama's need to neutralize a potential rival in Congress. But I have to balance those reasons against the fact that she took a whole series of policy positions of which I disapproved. Since these policy positions are in some cases literally matters of life and death, I take the issues very seriously.

If you insist of regarding democracy as a fun sport, at least understand that it is supposed to be a participatory sport, not a spectator sport. I worked hard along with millions of others to get Obama elected. Now that he is elected, I will continue to work with others to try to make sure he implements policies I regard as sound. You are free tof do the same.

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Lovely, Dan, thanks for this! I'm going to put it into my personal archive. Very well-stated. :)

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After Watching the most inept person EVER in charge for eight long years, it is beyond belief so many are finding fault with perhaps one of the possible most competent ever & before he is sworn in. He told us for nearly two years he would have the absolute best people surround him. He has also told us over & over how tough it will be.

What he needs from all of us is patience & sacrifice, two words never spoken in the past eight years. In the meantime enjoy the good feelings that are prevasive since the election, also missing for the last eight years.

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I had a celebratory dinner party at my house the weekend following the election. Plenty of good feelings were enjoyed and indulged by all. Now it's back to work.

Even excellent leaders are full of faults and make many bad decisions.

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How is that she is only judged through the prism of her tenure as first lady, she has been a senator, you know?
I agree with your larger point, but have to pick a nit with this: She's not being judged only by her tenure as first lady, she's also being judged largely by the primary campaign she ran against Obama.
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Agree, but I think if she had better managers she would have been much better off. I think if it were not for Obama, she would have won- it would have been more blood on the dancefloor, but she would have won. Now she did not help herself with all that Bosnia sniper fire stuff, but I think she has to feel frustrated that she will be always be known as Bill's wife. For all of the stuff she put up with, it's sad that she can't make a name out of herself, mainly because of the media. You should hear the joy in their voice when they mention the word Clinton, it has to be unhealty.

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Wow, the snark here is palpable. Anyway, keep bashing away, by the way how did Howard Dean and his gang of netroots fare in 2004- OH YEAH HE FREAKING LOST.

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Dear Grad Student, I've been there. You've got a lot on your plate. And you're saddled to the research as your ticket out'a there, but unless you get something to work and replicate, you're stuck there.

Keep paying attention to TPM. Read and learn from what others have to say. And try out your ideas, even if they need to be revised upon further reflection or readers' comments.

Don't give up on politcs. No one has all the answers, no matter how sure some of us may sound. And you're already doing better than many voters by spending your free time here, posting your ideas, and paying attention.

Good luck!n And godspeed with the grad work!

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Some people just don't like Hillary Clinton, Graduate Student.

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