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Carter Collapse - can polls be wrong?


I keep hearing Repubs talking about how the polls were wrong in 2000 and they were wrong in 2004.  But they weren't.  IIRC, the polls showed both races about even, if not a slight lead for Bush.  Certainly the 2004 Florida exit polls were "wrong".  Yeah, right.

It seems the only recent election in which you could argue that the polls were polls were significantly off is Reagan-Carter, 1980.  Can someone fill me in on that one?  From what I understand Carter went from a slight lead to a huge loss in the last 48 hours before the election.  I would guess (if it's true) that was almost 100% because of the Iran hostage situation.

Since there's nothing even remotely like that going on, I can't think of any reason to enjoy the ride until Tuesday, confident that Obama's win will be decisive.




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"I can't think of any reason to enjoy the ride until Tuesday, confident that Obama's win will be decisive."

sigh. Wish I had your optimism. I take it you don't read Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-fitrakis-and-harvey-wasserman/beware-the-twin-towers-of_b_139299.html


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Ah, but I do read huffpo, and I am usually quite the pessimist. My unaccustomed optimism fits me awkwardly, which is why I went looking for reasons to expect a collapse, and how I came upon the Reagan-Carter thing.

But I also read this from Time:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1855049,00.html
("How Early Voting Could Cost McCain Florida")
and that stoked my optimism.

I know about the disenfranchisement, but --Palast's sensationalism notwithstanding-- it doesn't sound like it is working as well for the GOP as it has in the past. I know about the vote-switching machines, but will a modest cheat of 3-5% in precincts where it would not set off serious alarm bells be enough this time?

So I guess I CAN think of some reasons not to enjoy the ride -- they just haven't been enough to bring me down.

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The problem with making comparisons of this election to past elections is that the Obama campaign has taken a non-traditional approach toward which states are key. And the Obama folks have put together an unprecedented organization both "on the ground", as they say, and on line, building upon the work that Dean and Tripi did in 2004.

There is a similarity between this election and 1992 and "it's the economy".

Tuesday night VA and FL polls close at 7:00 PM. If Obama wins either, let alone both, given Obama's PA substantial polling lead, the election will likely be won.

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Yep. I'm not so sure how optimistic we should be about FL, but if both FL and VA go to Obama, I'd already call McCain toast at that point. And we will owe a debt of thanks to Dean, for sure.

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I just heard a report on CNN which indicated that the youth turnout amongst early voters in FL has been somewhat less than expected.

But, again, the Obama folks have put together an extensive get out the vote organization and the McCain camp has to cut back on their get out the vote organization in favor of TV advertising.

Even so, the Obama camp, from the beginning, has not been built around the necessity of winning FL, as were the DLC style campaigns of Gore and Kerry.

Let's also remember that many states, Ohio included, have largely moved to paper verification of one's vote. PA is still largely paperless but the Obama lead is wider there at this point.

The voter turnout operations will probably be what makes the difference and Obama has a decided advantage.

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I'm afraid I never much faith in the youth vote turning out much more than usual. But I didn't know about the paper verification in Ohio, that's good news to me.

And I do look at fivethirtyeight a lot. Nate sure seems to know what he's talking about, but he also does have a bias. Still, the numbers are impressive and reassuring.

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This site has a map showing which states do and do not have paper verification requirements. There are other similar sites.

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The Carter collapse, as I understand it, had to do with the debate. At first Carter wasn't going to debate at all, then finally agreed to a debate a week before the election. The conventional wisdom was that Reagan was an intellectual lightweight, a simpleton actor. In the debate he held his own, was optimistic, and had good sound bites like, "There you go again!" I don't think a similar comeback is possible for McCain because Obama "won" all three debates decisively. The barrage of negative campaigning is wearing away at Obama's lead but not his support, so unless EVERY undecided voter goes for McCain, it's extremely unlikely that a surprise is in the works. This has been a long campaign and people are pretty familiar with the candidates and the lines of argument.

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If anyone is getting nervous go visit FiveThirtyEight.com or Pollster.com

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goaty

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