Harry Reid is a F@¢king tool
As Josh has reported, the Big Three bridge loan is dead. The Republicans are getting what they want: bringing on a full-scale depression AND sticking a final knife in the guts of the labor movement, twisting it, and breaking off the hilt.
The Southern Republican Senators who torpedoed the deal will take much richly-deserved blame, but we also can't forget who let this happen:
Harry Reid.
I can't IMAGINE anything like this happening under Lott or Frist -- meaning, I can't imagine Lott or Frist allowing something this important to go "against" them. Remember the "nuclear option" in the 109th Congress? Reid just let the Republicans set off an atom bomb in the Midwest, giving it his trademark Stern Rebuke, and doing nothing (another trademark).
Par for the course. What a useless piece of human waste.
Republicans routinely go nuclear. Democrats routinely let them.
What a wonderful party I belong to.
The Southern Republican Senators who torpedoed the deal will take much richly-deserved blame, but we also can't forget who let this happen:
Harry Reid.
I can't IMAGINE anything like this happening under Lott or Frist -- meaning, I can't imagine Lott or Frist allowing something this important to go "against" them. Remember the "nuclear option" in the 109th Congress? Reid just let the Republicans set off an atom bomb in the Midwest, giving it his trademark Stern Rebuke, and doing nothing (another trademark).
Par for the course. What a useless piece of human waste.
Republicans routinely go nuclear. Democrats routinely let them.
What a wonderful party I belong to.
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Harry Reid is just one of a number of Dem leaders who should be replaced.
Is there ANY realistic hope that the next Senate Majority Leader will have cohones?
Any nominations?
December 12, 2008 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
As usual, lotsa anger and no understanding of the way the Senate works. Reid is not a great majority leader, but he does a decent job with what he has got to work with....
Reid cannot order ANYBODY to do ANYTHING. His office is the weakest one on the entire government, and he has no tools available to force the GOP to do a thing. They are all stupid and self-righteous and pretty much clueless, and he cannot change that.
The only thing that can is when a new president, more Democratic senators, and a more Dem House start pointing out that everything that is failing is the fault of said moron GOP senators. Until that pressure is brought to bear, Reid is powerless to stop the GOP asshats from wrecking the place.
December 12, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
He could at least force them into a real filibuster instead of just threats.
That would surely improve Reid's image, unless there are also too many Democrats not on board. In which case, why not?
December 13, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
You don't need actual power for real leadership. Look at McConnel, he has all the Republicans under control, and I seem to remember a Senate leader named Lynden Johnson who indeed exersized considerable power. Reid just sees his job as as the doorman. Oh, and need it be pointed out that his politics are really very conservative?
December 12, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
LBJ and Bobby Byrd are the two best leaders in the history of the Senate. Hard to imagine Reid can match up to them. And both of them had advantages that Reid does not -- their opposition was less organized, and less ideological.
Not to say that I think Reid is wonderful -- he is decent, and that may be the best we can get from this job at this time. Let's see if he can do better when he has some help after Jan 20 -- then there will be nobody else for the senate GOP to hide behind, and they will have to pay for their stupidity....
December 12, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Profanity is not necessary, but otherwise I agree as I have opined at length elsewhere and won't bother readers with here. Really, is Reid the best the Democrats can do? There definitely are better Senators, so I suppose petty, arcane infighting keeps them on the sidelines.
December 12, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
probably intelligence keeps them from wanting the job -- it is nearly impossible to succeed. If I were one of the good ones, I would run from any offer of that job.
December 12, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ravening without the facts. The cloture motion was decided in Roll Call Vote 215.
McConnell did such a good job keeping Republicans in line, that 8 Republicans voted For Cloture. Four Democrats voted No, but Reid voted no in a procedural ploy that is common for a party leader to vote No in a roll-call they are going to lose. A valid question is why were so many Senators absent for this Roll-Call?
Republicans who voted Yes
Democrats who voted No
Senators Not Voting
December 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The left has always been too easy for the right to roll. Tell-me potty mouth, do you enjoy being sodomised by them? You rant and rave against Reid, and propose that he use the same reprehensible threat that the Republicans did when the Democrats were stopping the worst of the Bush Judicial nominees.
Why are you attacking Reid, instead of pointing out the Republicans are being obstructionists, who were afraid to allow this to come to the floor in a straight up or down vote? this was what they had to say about Democrats blocking the judicial nominees. You should be attacking the Republicans' hypocrisy, but instead you attack Reid. What is the real reason for this? Why can you not just spit it out, and admit that you do not think Reid is a good enough leftist for your tastes? In my mind, that's one of Reid's finer points.
December 12, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm attacking Reid because he is so totally ineffective in doing what you say. If there ever was an example of class warfare, it's this irresponsible action of Republicans to nuke American manufacturing simply to kill a union and gut wages. Reid is completely inarticulate and I'll bet you couldn't find one Joe Plumber in America who could remember anything he's ever said about anything. Most Americans have probably never heard of him. Since no one pays any attention to him whatever, it's not surprising no Senator pays any attention to him either.
December 12, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are a damn fool. You attack a Senator who worked hard attempting to work out a deal. Where the hell was Biden, Kerry, and Wyden? Why aren't you at least attacking the 3 Democratic Senators who voted against cloture; Baucus, Lincoln and Tester. Better yet, why aren't you vehemently protesting the obstructionism from the minority in the Senate, which is threatening American automakers? Instead you go after one of your own. Clearly, Democrats are the lamer of two evils in the two-party system.
You do your enemies' work for them. All they have to do is throw bait out to the wolf pack of the left. At this rate, Democrats are likely to get buried come 2010. Worse, if it happens, people like you, who enabled the quick turn of the wheel, will still find somebody else to blame for your fall. Go To the mirror.
December 12, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of my own? Biden may have been hiding on orders from Obama and blaming the left for the blue dogs is a hoot. Democrats remain totally gutless. The one and only hope we have lies with the mad as hell public threatening to evict the lot of them if they don't get in touch with the reality on Main Street.
December 12, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden is no longer in the Senate, nor is Obama. The problem is that Democrats never will accept the power they have to go along with the responsibilities they have. There are lots of senate rules, and Robert Byrd would have found some combination of them to get around the Repub obstructionism. Reid has no apparent interest in even trying that.
The very least that Reid should have done is keep the Senate in session, without a cloture vote being taken, and let the Repubs do an actual filibuster, just to force the newsmedia to acknowledge what was happening. As it played out, the full blame for the failure is on the Democrats, with no TV news or mainstream printed news pointing out that a "filibuster" by the Repubs is what killed the deal. In fact to listen to the news or read the papers you would think that the Senate requires a 60% vote to pass anything.
Reid has a job to do, but seems to lack any understanding or appreciation of what that job is. I can't see how having a 59 vote majority is going to improve his appreciation. He must go if anything useful is to happen.
December 12, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden was still officially a Senator for Senate Roll Call Vote 215, December 11, 2008, 10:42 PM. Obama was not. Check the link; it shows the total vote count to be 99, and Obama is not one of the Senators listed. I remembered where Kerry has been, the global warming summit, so he has an excuse, as does Kennedy, There was nothing Reid could have done to change the outcome. Even if he had continued the Senate session, Republican Senators would have still headed home. It takes 60 for cloture regardless of how many are actually in attendance.
I'll say it again, y'all are attacking your own, and getting owned by the Republicans while doing it. There is nothing about the free market in what the Republicans have done, yet they walk away unscathed, because too many Democrats do even understand, and blame this mess on the free market. The Republicans attempted to impair valid and lawful contracts between the UAW and the automakers. In doing so, they have also attempted to interfere with the citizenry's right to free association. People have a right to collectively bargain when their employer is itself a collective entity, and that is exactly what a corporation is. What has happened is that the GOP has sided with elitist collectivists, against populist collectivists. I'm not a fan of collectivism, but it is easy to see that collectives based upon populism have a stronger case for legitimacy than ones based upon fictional entities which are designed to shield business owners from true free-market liabilities.
December 13, 2008 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
First, you're wrong on Reid's options. He can choose how a filibuster is conducted. He can force the filibusterers to stand on the floor and speak till they drop. So if he chose, the Republicans would not have been allowed to just "go home." He didn't so chose, because he's a flippin' wuss. He can also prevent anything from being placed on the Senate agenda until a vote is taken on the merits (i.e. breaking the filibuster). Again, not a path typically taken by cowards.
You say we are attacking our own, as if it somehow benefits us to ignore it when one of own is severely damaging our party. My loyalty to my party REQUIRES me to call Reid out.
December 13, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
A Cloture vote is not a filibuster. They are related, but are still not the same thing.
December 13, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I realized after I posted that that Biden hasn't resigned his seat yet. My mistake.
Reid could not get that bill passed, I agree on that too, but this is a political game being played, and Democrats need to play it too. That is why Reid needed to keep the Senate in session, forcing the Republicans to actually do a filibuster. Even if that only went on for 4 hours, it would have made the news, and everyone would recognize that it was the Republicans who defeated the bill. Right now, the press has been successful in hiding that information, so it will be the Democrats who get the blame 2 years from now. That was Reid's mistake, and it was a dumb mistake.
I believe he did that only because all of the Senators wanted to get out of town for the holidays. If so, that compounds the mistake.
December 13, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Corker is tagged as the cause in the press.
The trick is to archive some of these stories, so when it comes up with a negative spin, you can point back to the Republicans.
December 13, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember Hoppy, I've never pretended to be a Democrat, but that does not mean I'm a Republican either. Presently, if push comes to shove, I lean Democratic. Here's nine significant reasons why. I have a very dim view of the bail-out, and not because they are not needed, but because the people are not getting a true free-market return for their investment. These should not be loans, or hand-outs. The government should be receiving dollar for dollar equity, then as soon as the markets stabilise, and a profit can be made, these equities should be taken private at public auction to the highest bidders at a frequency that does not cause great market fluctuations. If you wonder what my politics really are; the first paragraph sums it up much better than I ever could.
December 13, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are correct on every point. I can't recall any majority leader who has ever allowed the minority obstructionists to do it as cleanly and quietly as Reid has allowed the republicans to do. The media narrative is constantly one of Reid giving in to republicans. It doesn't have to be that way. He is so clueless.
December 13, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pseudocyants,
Appreciate seeing someone take on the tired old netroots "they're spineless" theme. Especially since I suspect they are going to be turning it on to Obama after a short honeymoon. (I am sure he expects that to happen, too.) I also auspect most who disagree don't bother to counter the agitprop, and then the entire liberal blogosphere gets tarred with it. I know I for one don't bother anymore. They don't care about realities of governing, they just want to see "fighting," like their right wing doppelgangers.
December 12, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's easier for me, because I refuse to take part in the two-party system, and remain without the distorted plane.
December 12, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the irony of the situation is that the actual story line, as oppsoed to the virtual unreality of the traditional "netroots" narrative, is shaping up this way:
The lame duck Republican president could not, once again, round up enough Republican votes to get something done that he wanted done. So now he's got to use money set aside for something else to do it.
December 12, 2008 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, Obama is well on his way to becoming the next "F@¢king tool useless piece of human waste" for gharlane type bloggers:
From
Obama Team Woos GOP to Ease Way for Agenda, Dec. 13 Wall Street Journal:
December 13, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Realities of governing? The reality is that it's been so long since the public has seen any governing from either party they've forgotten what it's like to have a functioning government. Functioning government can be found in some states and some localities but the national government? When was the last time that worked for anybody but fat cat lobbies?
December 12, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
pseudo, you did it the correct way, facts and figures. As art says, it is so tirsome to listen to (read) those dealing purely in emotion.
Shelby et alia make me wish the South had won the war. They continue after all of these years to revel in their unpatriotism. I would be more than happy to set them free, maybe use a large chain saw right down the Mason-Dixon line!
Corker et alia think it is fine to bust unions. Does that have anything to do with the fact that they still hate the Union? Both the Union and the unions have made great efforts to free slaves. Maybe that is the problem for DiMint (I hope I mispelled that!) and the bunch?
Senators Baucus et alia (excusing Senator Reid who had to follow procedural rules) need to do some explaining. And your questiongarding the whereabouts of the 12 delinquents should be posed to each of them, along with some serious reprimands.
December 12, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
This seems extreme.
The Autos will get their bailout from the TARP, and Reid can't be blamed for the existence of Richard Shelby and Bob Corker. I would prefer that they actually be forced to use the filibuster, rather than just threaten it and get what they want, but what else can the guy do? The Constitution is pretty clear, 60 votes.
I would love for someone smarter than I about the innerworkings of sausage making to explain why there were so many absent at the roll call, including the incoming VP. It's disconcerting that there is so much spin going back and forth about who is to blame for this, but the facts of the vote don't make much sense.
December 12, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yeah, that horrible Democratic Party....the Party of Chmn. Howard Dean who gave us a 50 State Strategy. The Party of the former Senator from Illinois, now the Democratic President Elect Obama, who expanded our majorities in Congress and won a nearly 10 million popular vote spread.
Some honeymoon!
December 12, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I was waiting in line before the polls opened on election day, one of the other voters was telling us that he worked at the Ford plant and he had just found out it was closing for the month of December. What kind of honeymoon do you think he should give Reid, Pelosi, and Obama? This is not an abstract economic crisis.
December 12, 2008 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmnn...Constitution doesn't say 60 votes. The rule of 3/5 to invoke cloture (60 senators) is just that, a senate rule. The constitution allows the rules to be changed, and they have been changed over the course of history. There are ways around a filibuster too (such as bringing the Senate to a screeching halt indefinitely) but Reid is too much of a wuss to do it.
December 12, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is the problem Reid is causing. You state that the Constitution requires 60 votes. Nope, the Constitution doesn't say a thing about how many votes it takes. But, because Reid lacks the knowledge or inclination to force the issue, there was no actual filibuster, so the newsmedia don't have to tar and feather the Repubs for their activities, and the voters see this as a Democratic Congress failure, not an obstruction by Republicans.
You, at least, do read here, so you have far more knowledge of how the Congress works than an average citizen does. I'm willing to bet, if you took a poll today asking what happened to that bailout, the top vote getter would be that the bill only got 32 votes, with 50+ against it, so the Democrats refused to rescue Detroit.
December 12, 2008 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
hoppy, you're channeling me tonight... Or I'm channeling you.
December 13, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Hmmmmm . . .
Where in the Constitution of the United States does one find the 60 seat Senate Rule on filibusters?
The Constitution allows each house of Congress to set its own rules.
The Standing Rules of the Senate detail the rules of order of the United States Senate.
Here's a little background from United States Senate - "Filibuster and Cloture"
~OGD~
December 13, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Here's a little right wing doppelganger action I just ran across:
Harry Reid Genuflects Before Big Labor Bosses
Plans to Push Forced-Unionism Agenda as Senate Session Winds Down
1 page-PDF from the July "National Right to Work Newsletter"
Some of the arguments there about Harry sound remarkably the same.
:-)
December 12, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just heard Lawrence O'Donnell say this real slow, loud, and clear on MSNBC, as if there are a lot of bloggers out there who don't get what happened, as if he was giving a lesson from "Congress for Dummies":
It went exactly the way the Democrats wanted it to go. It is a clear win for the Democrats (he emphasized "clear win".) What they wanted was the rest of TARP funds for the auto companies before the new government gets in. Now they got them.
I would add that in the process, there was this benefit: they forced all the Southern conservatives to go on the record showing preference for foreign companies being in control of American jobs in the auto industry.
The more I think on it, the more I see a real cool manuever in a tough situation, with a new government only a month away.
Got it folks? Rhey didn't lose, they won, they got what they wanted from Bush. And the GOP troglodytes were forced to come out of the closet on this issue.
December 12, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice spin.
December 12, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't call it spin, I call it money. I see real actual results, real money, money now, money already approved:
I imagine you would have preferred they had taken "a stand" and gotten nothing, zero, zip, nada. What your way really means to me: eternal gridlock, ideological purity yielding nothing but passionate speeches, fighting words signifying nothing real. Tip: chess isn't your game.
December 12, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. This was the situation last night, this was the headline of the Friday New York Times print edition:
Senate Abandons Auto Bailout Bid after G.O.P. Balks
$14 Billion Denied for G.M. and Chrysler--Pressure on the President to Act
Now it looks like they will be getting that money, the rest of the TARP money. Who do you think made that happen? God?
December 12, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
You see a chicken. I see an egg. Possibly the egg will hatch, but I like to see that happen first.
Even if Bush does agree to "hatch the egg" he will be the one to set the rules behind this, not Congress. So, the Big 3 can use any money they get this way any way they wish, moving factories out of country, giving out big bonuses to their CEOs, reducing fuel efficiency of their cars, or whatever suits their fancy. Net result: zero, as far as the country is concerned.
December 12, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. It will be spun as a win for Bush, not Democrats. And it will also ensure no oversight.
December 13, 2008 1:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
We can only wait and see . . .
I see a duck.
Bush has 38 days to keep spinning whatever he's going to spin no matter what.
Come January 22nd the bully pulpit of the Presidency will "change" hands . . .
Let's see what kind of hammer will be wielded then.
Will it be of iron or velvet?
~OGD~
December 13, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I see a chicken. I tend to see a lot here in the coop.
I think arta's take is essentially correct, however, it is being spun as the weak dems dropped the ball again, by the ever destructive MSM.
What I'd like to know is who is going to take over the FCC (Please let it be Copps) and when will they do a spot of anti-trust monopoly busting.
Even the founders knew our Republic required a FREE press, not one owned lock, stock, and barrel by our current defacto corporate royalty.
December 13, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice spin.
Actually what Lawrence O'Donnell says makes a lot of sense if you are willing to assume two things:
1) The legislation sucked, in the words of Chris Bowers :
This legislation had turned into a real stinker, which would have actually retarded the growth of cleaner vehicles in America rather than attached strings to push them along. The government would likely have not received any meaningful investment stake, either. We need to save these jobs and this domestic industry, but swallowing this pill would have been extremely difficult.
2) The Democratic leadership will have a better negotiating position dealing directly with Bush.
December 13, 2008 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seems to me Bluebelle and Gharlane were the ones spinning, spinning yourselves silly with your same old, samd old narrative:
White House Ready to Aid Auto Industry,
Plan for Interim Lending After Senate Loss
By STEPHEN LABATON and DAVID M. HERSZENHORN for the Dec. 13 New York Times headline story.
I love the irony of the Cheney warning.
December 13, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Artappraiser nails it. Reid wanted the TARP money and that's what will be used. It's a clear win.
December 12, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least ole Pinky won't have
to smell us anymore ...
December 12, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is also the Stiglitz view.
"... With financial restructuring, the real assets do not disappear. Equity investors (who failed to fulfil their responsibility of oversight) lose everything; bondholders get converted into equity owners and may lose substantial amounts. Freed of the obligation to pay interest, the carmakers will be in a better position. Taxpayer dollars will go far further. Moral hazard – the undermining of incentives – will be averted: a strong message will be sent."
I have not yet seen a serious attempt to refute this approach. The effects on pensions may be a bit up in the air, but I don't see why pensions should not also take a hit (but not a huge hit).
Anyone?
The topical connection is that Reid et al might see this as yet another backup option.
December 13, 2008 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some partsmaker on NPR thought that as we have given the banks tons of money that they should be persuaded to lower the interest rates on the loans the big three have to around 5% (They are currently 8-10%), and then we should all, "get back to work."
Sounds good to me.
The fargin Banks should actually lower the interest rates across the board if they are taking taxpayer dollars, IMHO. Including Mortgages.
December 13, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sounds reasonable to me. Could be CDSes would make that a problem, but there's not reason to protect bondholders, imo. Well, no reason to overprotect.
December 14, 2008 3:54 AM | Reply | Permalink