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I went to hear Turandot at the movies


Culture came to Main Street but not escapism.

When things got complicated in the third act they also got up to date.. The Chinese interrogators  wanted information. The lovely Liu refused to tell them what they wanted.

Puccini's operatic solution: they would threaten her with torture.' We have ways of making you talk'. The Milan audience perhaps smiled indulgently. That Puccini !. An operatic solution to move the plot along.

Waterboarding , I thought but Liu beat them to the punch.

What's happened to us?  How did we get to a place where the highest levels of our government approve something that ten years ago we'd have scorned as a medeival practice or hokey theatrical plot device?  And criticism is classified  at best as a sign of almost culpable  immaturity and more likely as unpatriotic indifference to the welfare of  our troops overseas.

In years of living abroad where, frankly, things were often better run , I could still think fondly of our government as one that was fundamentally decent. Today that seems mostly to depend on which torturer is in charge of the Office of Legal Counsel

Even Puccini couldn't have dreamed up John Yoo.

   

 

 

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What was it that Marcelius said in "Pulp Fiction?" "Now I'm going to get medieval."

It makes me think of Michel Foucault's "Discipline an Punish." He wrote that at the end of the Middle Ages there was a shift from punishing the body to punishing the mind. The British "Panopticon" was the high-end product of mental punishment, according to Foucault. Incarceration with 24/7 surveillance.

It seems obvious that anyone in the interrogation business knows full well that physical torture does not yield actionable intelligence. To me, this puts the motive in question for doing so. I think you're exactly right in calling it "medieval." But that means, I would think, that the motive is punishing the body rather than intelligence gathering. If this stuff ever gets to trial, I think the best expert witness for the prosecution would be the Marquis de Sade.

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I was at a dinner party last night with mostly MDs, (theoretically intelligent beings ). I was appalled when they began defending torture, using the old chestnut that "if it saves one innocent life...". Bah!

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They probably love "24" and swallow the "ticking time bomb" meme. There are plenty of MD's who haven't forgotten the concept "First, Do No Harm," but the ones who drank the neo-cone Kool-Aide are also around, unfortunately.

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Hey, these are the folks who stick things into your anus. What did you expect?

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I always wonder where they will draw the line.
Raping the subject's wife. Torturing her ? Torturing his children ? Killing them one at a time? Why not? There's that ticking time bomb.

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flavius

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  • Location Long Island
  • Party Democratic
  • Politics slightly left of the party's center

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  • Favorite Blogs Brad Delong
  • Favorite Books Skidelsky's biography of Keynes; Naipaul's "In a Free State"
  • Favorite Quotes First they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out etc. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out etc. Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.

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Worked outside the US for 15 years.

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