More Right-Wing Violence? Census Worker Hung With "FED" Scrawled on Body
I always find it frustrating and ironic that people think right-wing violence "may" happen soon, unless things are toned down.
The simple fact is right-wing violence has claimed 5 lives this past year alone, and this article (and this report on Maddow) may indicate another victim.
While it would be silly to make assumptions about this new case, what we know about the previous cases is very clear. It also runs counter to people like John Boener's lack of worry over right-wing agitation.
Here's a quick recap:
1) George Tiller was shot and killed in his church by a man with (in addition to hardcore anti-abortion group association) alleged membership in The Freemen, a 90's-born quasi-militia with anti-federal leanings.
2) James Von Brun stormed the Holocaust Museum in Washington, fatally shooting one guard before being shot in the face (he has survived to stand trial). He was a vocal and well known figure in racist and white supremacist groups, had served time in federal prison for attempting to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve, and had ties to the far-right British National Party. His "suicide" note read like a placard from any Tea Party rally, with some anti-Semitism thrown in:
"You want my weapons -- this is how you'll get them. The Holocaust is a lie. Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do. Jews captured America's money. Jews control the mass media."
(My emphasis)
3) Finally we have Richard Andrew Poplawski; a young man with virtually identical beliefs, who shot and killed 3 police officers in Pittsburg; convinced (like Von Brun), that Obama wanted to "take his guns away."
The last round of Tea Party pics from Sept 12 shows the exact same expression on many signs: (picture of an AK-47) "Try Taking It", etc.
My question is simple: why is (current) right-wing violence still seen as hypothetical?
If this last killing turns out to be motivated by anti-federal furor (and it looks like that's a distinct possibility here), that makes SIX murders.
The Bill O'Reillys ("Tiller the Baby Killer") of the world won't back off of their rhetoric, but does the right mainstream even KNOW about this stuff? Sean Hannity, for example, only mentioned the Holocaust shooting in passing on his show, once, to make a "point" about Rev. Wright.
At what point is right-wing violence seen as real by media, and, most importantly to everyone's saftey, by the RIGHT?
On the other hand, it might be a simple killing of a suspected DEA informant in a region known for pot growing and meth labs. There has recently been a large number of arrests in the area.
September 24, 2009 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since he was found hanging with "fed" written (carved?) on him, this is going to have law enforcement swarming all over the place. Something drug dealers and users don't generally want. Not that there isn't stupid meth heads out there, but chances are good that they would have made him just "disappear" out in the woods.
September 24, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think I gave pretty good disclaimers for what I said.
You'll notice my premise doesn't rely on this killing turning out to be linked to right-wing ideologies.
But thanks for reinforcing the obvious here.
September 24, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
People were applauding Obama in Manhattan as he rode past in his obamamobiles, so your observation of wingnut violence must just be an illusion.
Why are you so fixated by the fringe, if you keep talking about the fringe you empower them. Just chill, everything will be OK.
September 24, 2009 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I discuss what interests me. If you don't like it, don't read it. For me 6 dead bodies doesn't indicate a time to "chill." If taht works for you great, but don't chastise me for writing about this, it's stupid and obnoxious.
September 24, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention the nonsense/word salad of your first sentence. I tend to listen to people who make sense, sorry.
September 24, 2009 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was being facetious. there were comments on another post that stated that people who paid attention to wingnuts were ignoring the larger group o people with good feelings for Obama. Of course, that doesn't account for the group that is willing to do harm.
The obamamobile term came from one of those comments. It tells the mindset of that poster towards Obama
another poster wondered why I focused on the fringe, then noted:
Also from before the election:
...And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations....
Stop freaking out, he expected it. Why didn't you? This has been with us since the culture wars started. Stop giving it more weight than it's worth. They are louder and angrier right now because they have lost more again. (George Bush wasn't even with them, though it took them a long time to figure that one out.) To fixate on them gives them more power than they deserve, it's like being scared of the monster under your bed.
And any president of the U.S. (as well as Congresspersons at town hall meetings, I might add) is threatened by possible assassination for many reasons. Having a few more or a few less interested in doing it doesn't change the general threat level much at all.
You can't change it that there are crazy mean-mad people in the world, and that always gets worse when there's economic bad times. Why fixate on the crazy people? Ever think of why they are carrying those guns? They feel marginalized and are afraid! They are pitiful, actually. And conspiracy theorists are pitiful in general, they can't handle reality, either, must make it fit into a narrative they can handle.
-------------
Now as best as I can decipher that post, there may be more upset people carrying arms, but the threat level is the same!! Talking about the threat empowers them, rather than merely addresses an issue.
the full blog is at
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/rutabaga_ridgepole/2009/09/the-face-of-team-obama-tells-a.php
Provides interesting reading.
I get your passion. By the way, Rep Steve King (R-Idiot) went on the floor of the House to say that Obama is the head of ACORN. Note the offensive artwork used.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/09/rep-king-obama-is-the-star-of-acorn.php
September 24, 2009 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I honestly don't even know why I bother responding to your constant snipes at your sworn TPM enemies, but for the record:
Gasket's comments re: the Obama-mobile was in the context of Obama-loving crowds getting no air time in the media. All you see are the crazy tea baggers. Obama does have supporters. It would be nice if they showed them once in a while. But yes, let's ignore the fact that Obama has supporters and focus on the nutjobs exclusively. That will really help Obama achieve his agenda.
ArtAppraiser's comments were about the obsession with the teabaggers and the fringe right wing nutjobs that has come to exist on lefty sites like TPM. You honestly think it is healthy to let the nutjob right-wingers suck up all the oxygen so we are entirely in a defensive mode rather than putting forward ideas?
How did Jimmy Carter's comments impact the debate on healthcare? Did accusing folks of racism help move one person to Obama's side of the issue? Obama is smart enough to realize that is not the case.
September 24, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
You seem to be as tired of me as I am of you. This is a blog. people get to air their personal viewpoints. When bloggers decide to organize and send letters to the President, members of Congress, executives, etc or organize a rally, then some real world action happens. The rest of the time people post personal comments and often link to sources of information that expand other's base of knowledge.
People air the opinion about how they feel about an issue. People agree or disagree. If I get a response to a post of mine, I will respond. You are free to disagree we me, I am free to disagree with you. Look, the poster here thought that I was attacking him. I understand his passion for the issue, and made a post to clarify my position.
Currently TPM bloggers have posts dealing with the health care bill, the Denver terror suspect, a funny take on balance in media, another humorous view of Lincoln talking to modern day Republicans and on and on.
No air is being taken out of the discussion of health care. MSM is not rushing to my post and saying, we have to address the possibility of violence from the winguts. Even keith and Rachel haven't called. People are expressing opinions. The world goes on. The health care debate goes on. There is enough oxygen to keep us all alive and opinionated.
September 24, 2009 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, you are absolutely correct.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/williamkwolfrum/2009/09/new-study-finds-that-you-are-a.php?ref=reccafe
September 24, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
Somehow I knew my viewpoint was correct.
September 24, 2009 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only reason they get annoyed with our talking about the teabaggers is that it distracts from their own tireless (and extremely tiresome) constant Obama bashing.
PUMAs apparently have nine lives as well.
September 26, 2009 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, well THIS blog is about how right-wingers KILL more people. Maybe that is a moral compass you can understand.
September 24, 2009 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one on the left has killed anyone? Only right wingers kill?
Perhaps it is the amount coverage they get when they finally snap that has you confused, but a little over 16,000 people were killed in the US last year. That's 44.5 people per day or about 12,000 since Obama took office.
I suspect those murders weren't statistically tilted toward conservatives or republicans based on simple logic, but perhaps you have some data to back up your opinion that most of them surely were.
September 25, 2009 8:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Given your analysis of the numbers, there was no reason for the Department of Homeland Security to release a report detailing upticks in hate groups. There is simply nothing to see, move along. Again using your analysis there is no reason to monitor radical religious fundamentalist websites for clues to activity against the United States.
The numbers of murders of women by spouses is probably not high enough to develop systems for health care workers to report cases of spousal or relationship abuse. The numbers of murders that would occur in such situations is not high enough in the big scheme of things to elicit concern.
(let me make clear, this is snark)
September 25, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for clarifying the snark. Well done. :O)
September 25, 2009 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amazingly stupid argument. Hey maybe we should start more wars cuz people get killed anyway.
You just can't NOT be a right-wing extremist apologist can you?
Pathetic and COLD. Go sterilize some welfare moms for me.
September 25, 2009 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
PS. My argument is that THESE murders were motivated by this, which I backed up.
You wanna discuss that or just be Johnny-one-note "I never saw a right-wing extremist I didn't like" guy?
You sound like an idiot. I'm starting to think it isn't just how you sound.
WHAT THE FUCK??
September 25, 2009 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
You clearly have very little intellectual capacity given your apparent inability to comprehend very simple points with very simple numbers to back them up.
How can one person - right or left - be this obtuse?
I'll be waiting for the quote where I apologized for the behavior of nutty, fringe lone wolves who destroy innocent lives for no other reason than the quiet the voices in their head.
September 25, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I said this WHERE in my post?
You are a bullying asshole here (troll) and I'm done responding to your sorry-ass excuses for "arguments." You are not intellectually honest and you make people right of center LOOK BAD, so just go away already, troll.
September 25, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you even read what you write?
September 25, 2009 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's been more political violence in this country by right-wingers, (including the largest domestic terrorism incident in Oklahoma City) and that trend continues. Which part of THAT isn't true?
That would mean that right-wing violence is more dangerous, more frequent. Even the FBI know this. What is your excuse?
September 25, 2009 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least now you're admitting that you're making generalizations
September 25, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
A FACT that neither of you can come close to refuting is not a generalization, its a FACT.
September 26, 2009 3:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your "facts" are still open to interpretation and your manner is still that of an willful child.
September 26, 2009 8:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll inform McVeigh's 168 victim's families that the facts are up to your "interpretation"...
September 26, 2009 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except, of course, that isn't what you said as evidenced by the linked comment. ALL CAPS doesn't make you right.
September 25, 2009 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're putting words in his mouth. He's not saying that lots of people get killed and therefore it doesn't matter. He is saying that you can't generalize that right-wingers kill more people than left wingers based on just 5 or 6 examples when thousands of people get murdered each year.
September 25, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, Bill. It's like speaking to two-year olds around here sometimes.
September 25, 2009 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think what IGMR is going to tell us is that his comment that the right kills more people than the left ONLY was meant to refer to the subset of his examples. Even though he didn't say that. According to his logic, because 6 is greater than 1, that must mean that he can apply those odds to the entire American public. I don't know why we bother.
After reading his "A Certain Style of Post" masterpiece where he just kept repeating "F*** off", we should have learned what type of person we were dealing with.
September 25, 2009 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, one must deal with zealots to disprove their notions as illogical.
September 25, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
It will be tough to convince him that you can't use 5 or 6 examples to make blanket statements such as:
"Republicans are racist" or "Right-wingers kill more people"
September 25, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right and since i didn't say either of these things, both of you can fuck off, I'm done babysitting. Talk to each other I really don't give a fuck. BYE!!!
September 25, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure you did. You said it right here. "Uh, well THIS blog is about how right-wingers KILL more people. Maybe that is a moral compass you can understand.
Posted by igotmyreasons"
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/fgdesign/2009/09/more-right-wing-violence-censu.php#comment-3612933
September 25, 2009 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes and without CONTEXT you'd have a point. I'm done.
September 25, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
without context? please. you said that right-wingers kill more people. plain and simple
September 25, 2009 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I answered this below. Maybe you are too "simple" to answer it there.
September 25, 2009 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
AGAIN, asshole, what MURDERS have been committed in the last year in the name of LEFT-WING causes??
I'm not implying ANYTHING I'm stating simple facts.
NO WONDER YOU ARE CONFUSED.
Play gotchya with someone stupider.
PLEASE PLEASE GET THE FUCK OFF MY BLOG YOU ARE A TROLL, ADDING NOTHING TO THIS.
DO I REPORT THIS? HOWS IT WORK??
September 25, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
You said the right wing kills more people than the left wing. That is a sweeping generalization that has nothing to do with this comment. ALL CAPS doesn't mean you are being more clear. Just more obnoxious.
September 25, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't GENERALIZE I was EXTREMELY SPECIFIC.
When you guys get intellectually HONEST and stop dribbling this NONSENSE here I'll bother to reply more. As of now, if you want to PRETEND to be this stupid and obtuse, then I'll PRETEND TO COMMENT.
Have a great weekend, enjoy sticking up for murderers and racists.
September 25, 2009 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You said right-wingers kill more people. That is a generalization based on your 5 or 6 examples.
September 25, 2009 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah and Tim McVeigh.
Any questions?
September 25, 2009 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope.
September 25, 2009 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Frankly, I'm not sure how you differentiate a Timothy McVeigh and a Bill Ayers. Both had issues with the government's policies and looked to make a statement. Is McVeigh or Ayers really left-wing or right-wing? I frankly think both just have some screws loose but it's hard to "keep score" the way IGMR insists with fanatics like this.
September 25, 2009 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same way I HAVE been making the distinction: THINK BILL... it isn't hard...
WHICH GUY KILLED MORE PEOPLE???? C'mon you can DO IT!!!
September 26, 2009 3:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why is body count so important? LBJ killed over a million Vietnamese with his policies of carpet bombing large metropolitan areas in the north and Truman took out 500,000 Japanese with just two.
Bush's Iraq policy was perhaps responsible for nearly as many deaths in the Middle East, though we have no official body counts. For certain between Daddy Bush and Clinton, the sanctions imposed on the Iraqis led to the death of many hundreds of thousands over the ten years it was in place.
Your version of reality is about as narrow and bigoted as your opinion of anyone who doesn't agree with your limited view of things.
September 26, 2009 8:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah good point, screw it people die anyway...
September 26, 2009 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
My bad, I get a fair amount of feedback like this that ISN'T fake on my other blogs, thats the reaction. As far as this other stuff goes, enjoy...
September 24, 2009 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
No problem. I understood where you were coming from.
I thought you had participated in the linked blog and would get my context automatically.
September 24, 2009 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
See above.
HEY PEOPLE GET KILLED EVERY DAY!!! FUCK IT.
September 25, 2009 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is a concept that silence is consent.
And there is also a concept that it is good to know as close as possible what the political landscape is. While these violent wingnuts don't represent some vast number of Americans, they are part of the reality of the landscape.
Lets not forget that the number of right-wing militias are on the rise. The same ilk that did the Oklahoma City bombing. I want the feds to be investigating these groups, and I don't want to hear from the Right Wingers that these guys (and gals) aren't terrorists in the making.
September 24, 2009 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish I could recommend this comment.
Well said.
September 24, 2009 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me too.
September 24, 2009 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto.
September 26, 2009 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
People see threats differently. I see PETA, Earth First, Code Pink, Nation of Islam, and a large number of other left wing groups as equally dangerous. Most Militia members just want to go to the woods and shoot guns at targets, they really just want to be left alone.
September 24, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell that to the guy in the tree.
September 24, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
For real. Good shot.
September 24, 2009 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Jonnie - I found another person you can call a racist in addition to me - Glenn Beck!! He said that "McCain would have been worse for the country than Barack Obama". I guess McCain hates white people!
September 24, 2009 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can we get that in English??
September 24, 2009 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was a joke but Jonnie doesn't seem to share in my sense of humor. I guess he's too busy accusing people on here of being racists and then saying he never made such accusations.
September 25, 2009 5:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the shoe fits...
September 25, 2009 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Beck wasn't a racist it might be funny.
September 25, 2009 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
How come you refuse to answer my question? If you ask me if I am a spokesperson for racists, how can you then say that you never called me a racist? Seems awfully inconsistent to me.
September 25, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ask and answered
September 25, 2009 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still don't understand what that means, and I've even had my 3rd cup of coffee for the day. I don't know why you're so afraid to clarify.
September 25, 2009 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Asked and answered,
If you don't think I am a racist, then why did you ask me if I am the spokesperson for the racists? Asking me that question seems inconsistent with your claim that you don't think I'm racist.
Posted by MiddleClassBill in reply to a comment from jonnienohands
September 23, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
user-pic
If you don't think I'm a racist, then why did you (in your own words) "suggest" that I was a racist. What the heck is the difference?
Posted by MiddleClassBill in reply to a comment from jonnienohands
September 23, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
user-pic
Because I don't know, after being ask why you made racist comment's you hedged on your original statement and made another racist statement. The problem lies with you, why do you judge actions people might take by the color of their skin rather than assuming there actions would be equal?
Posted by jonnienohands in reply to a comment from MiddleClassBill
September 23, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
user-pic
September 25, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever
September 25, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
So the six dead people in this post are some kind of abstraction?
Or these "equally dangerous" left wing groups are killing people this way, specifically tied to their political gripes?
I thought you guys HATED moral relativism.
This post isn't about "feelings" of danger it's about actual recent FACTS. Your feelings don't interest me as much, no offense...
September 24, 2009 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Facts like these? Or "facts" that can never be proved based on six out of the twelve thousand killed since Obama took office?
September 25, 2009 8:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah great Jason, people die anyway so FUCK IT.
Nice moral compass. Go get drunker.
September 25, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
When twelve thousand people in nine months are killed, my moral compass says it is losing the forest for the trees to be overly concerned with six of them.
As this comment points out, the number of murders for far more preventable causes would be a more logical place to start, but by all means focus on the five that most outrage you.
You are becoming the original one-note wonder around here.
September 25, 2009 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
And your able to judge my level of concern how?
Why don't you write your own blog about how we shouldn't give a shit about this man's MURDER and keep your filthy observations there. It's been a few weeks since the genius of "RED STATE VS. TPM."
That's a good place to use that contrarian motherfucker magic. I'm sure you can re-read some Ayn Rand and get yourself worked up into some ant-humanitarian froth about what our concerns should be based on your amazing intellectual strength.
Seriously write a blog about which murders YOU deem worthy of MY attention.
Control something you might have a better shot at: your weight or drinking. Or even your blog. I've been blogging quite a while and YOUR shit, THIS shit on THIS thread, is the UGLIEST shit I've EVER seen.
i won't speculate as to what the fuck happened to your soul, you have depressed me enough today.
Can you please go away?
Seriously, why be a bully?
September 25, 2009 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? That is your response? Wow. You are seriously off your meds.
September 25, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then you are someone who wastes his time discussing bullshit with someone off his meds. Can you fuck off already?
September 25, 2009 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kiss your mom with that mouth?
September 25, 2009 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't kiss dead people, asshat.
September 26, 2009 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Apologies that your mom is dead, so let me try another tack: Kiss your daughter, sister, aunt with that mouth? It a figure of speech meaning you have a foul mouth for no reason.
September 26, 2009 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps you are confusing me with someone who gives a fuck what you think.
September 26, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't seen them kill anyone lately....have you?
September 24, 2009 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's not going to be able to respond if you insist on using logic.
September 24, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB - interesting you bring up these types of groups. I agree that they're not trying to kill anyone. We have Tim McVeigh, Bill Ayers and
But I bet you didn't know about this Dept. of Homeland Security piece talking about the dangers of "left-wingers" such as your animal rights friends. Interesting reading
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017758.php
And remember the plot to bomb the Republican convention last year?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/03/rnc-bomb-plan-uncovered/
Please don't think that I am somehow complacent about the violence going on in this country. But I just object to the original blogger's attempt to paint broad stereotypes by saying that right wingers kill more people. Especially when there's a big group of people out there that are so deranged and crazy, I honestly don't know what side of the aisle you put them in.
September 25, 2009 6:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I presented facts, not an opinion. If you have recent left-wing extremist murders, let us know.
Otherwise, stop twisting what I presented.
September 25, 2009 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
How exactly is this twisting what you have presented on this blog? "What a maroon."
September 25, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. You presented both facts and opinions. The facts were the incidents you listed of people that were killed. The opinion you expressed is that right-wingers kill more people than left-wingers. That may be true for the 5 or 6 examples you provided, but that wasn't your point. Your point was to say that right-wingers kill more people than left wingers. Just like when you said that Republicans are racist.
A handful of examples does not allow you to make sweeping generalizations about entire populations.
September 25, 2009 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
read my current blog... if it's a FACT, tough shit... keep dreaming.
September 26, 2009 3:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed the Homeland Security report from earlier this year said as much about the threat. Conservatives tried to divert attention.
September 24, 2009 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
True as well... real patriots!
September 24, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I seem to remember 2 people gunned down recently for being Anti-Abortion, so is that an example of left wing violence on the rise?
September 24, 2009 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm aware of one such shooting, could you link to the others?
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/14/crimesider/entry5309473.shtml
September 24, 2009 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Prosecutors say Pouillon's methods irritated Drake, particularly when used near the high school. Drake also is accused of killing a local business owner earlier that day.
Every indication was Pouillon was targeted, along with the 'local business owner' because Drake did not like the guy and his 'methods' which were to stand around schools with pictures of dead babies.
In a country with 25,000 homicides by gun every year odds are that an 'irrtitating' protester could be a victim for no other reason than the man with the gun found him an easy target.
September 24, 2009 5:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
To clarify, I don't think the victims position on abortion had a damn thing to do with his being shot.
September 24, 2009 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
There were just over 16,000 deaths in the US total, reflecting this FBI report from 2004. In fact, the murder rate has been pretty consistent for the last ten years or so. Where exactly did the 25,000 homicides by guns statistic come from?
September 25, 2009 8:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Drunk repeater, too. Drunk repeater. Drunk repeater.
September 25, 2009 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just pull the string and out comes more typical partisan idiocy. Sad to see this sort of thing on the left, given the ascending nature of their political star, but hardly surprising.
September 25, 2009 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's called perseveration.
September 26, 2009 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I heard his motive was to keep kids from seeing the ugly pictures, not a "pro-choice" motive.
Still 1 is less than 6 is it not?
September 24, 2009 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
True that. Gimme 5.
September 24, 2009 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about 16,000?
September 25, 2009 8:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gee we can figure out your point, please make it again. PEOPLE ARE MURDERED ANYWAY SO JASON SAYS FUCK THIS GUY.
September 25, 2009 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
That is actually only your faulty interpretation of my point, but remains reflective of a tendency to confuse your opinion for fact.
September 25, 2009 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
See my latest blog for a FACT to ponder, jackass.
September 25, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
You still haven't explained how you can generalize such a statement as the "right wing kills more" based on handful of examples you've provided. Unless you think the right wing is only a dozen people. But if the rightwing is a couple million, then you better keep trying to find more examples to justify your stereotypical language.
September 25, 2009 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tim McVeigh. Let me know when you have anyone who is even close on the left.
September 26, 2009 3:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
What makes McVeigh "on the right" - because he objected to how our government operates? People on the left object to that too.
September 26, 2009 7:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's some reading for you to help with the context you are missing. Unless, of course, you consider Gore Vidal a right winger as well.
September 26, 2009 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Context? Try not thinking in a binary fashion.
McVeigh had a REASON? Wow, so did bin Laden. But neither acted in any other way than an evil one. Charles Manson's motivations are interesting too, as were Hitler's.
Pathetic.
September 26, 2009 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cue crickets... this guy's got no argument.
I FEEL CODE PINK IS DANGEROUS!!! HELP, they are DRESSING IN PINK and stuff...
September 24, 2009 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow - so IGMR has found SIX, yes SIX examples of wingnuts out there. There's a lot more than six examples out there. So I don't understand why he's saying that since 6 examples versus only 1 of left-wing violence somehow determines anything.
Even if you guys
There's a dangerous fringe on both sides of the aisle. Nothing new here.
People have hated and attacked abortion clinics for years, nothing new is happening on that front just because of Obama being in office.
Militia groups and other "anti-government" groups have also been around for a very long time. I don't think folks like Timothy McVeigh really cared who was in office, they just hate the government. They certainly didn't do it because Clinton was white. Same thing for Bill Ayers. He would have blown up buildings no matter if it was a Republican or Democrat in office, white or black.
September 25, 2009 6:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Again thanks for making my point for me. Right-wing groups are FAR MORE LETHAL.
I never said this had anything to do with Obama in my post, I was merely listing RECENT violence.
If we include the last twenty years, that number increases dramatically.
But since you did bring it up, incidents increase with a Democratic president, and a black Democrat brings the level of terroristic "chatter" the FBI takes seriously (and this IS terrorism) UP, no matter how much you'd like to WISH otherwise.
Leads on real threats on the president, for example, are up 400% since Bush (not a well-liked figure).
So again, this post isn't about "feelings" or moral relativism. It's about FACTS.
When the FBI issued it's warning about right-wing terror groups, the right felt insulted (for some reason), but the FACT is it was/is a CORRECT assessment of what they ARE watching for. If you want to know what they are looking for on the far LEFT, you can look at THAT report (which we took NO offense too because we don't APOLOGIZE for criminals).
Not suprisingly, they are watching the left for cyber attacks and stuff like that, NOT Timothy McVeighs-in-taining.
Get some facts.
Looking like an apologist for MURDERERS makes you look incredibly stupid. I could ask you why you aren't embarrassed, but of course that proves my point too.
The right has no shame about this, from Bill O'Reilly down to "MiddleClassBill"
WHY??
September 25, 2009 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah FACTS and no answer. What's the matter chatty? Nothing to say here?
September 25, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still waiting for you to explain how a handful of examples gives you the right to generalize for an entire population.
September 25, 2009 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
So far left cyber attacks and far right militias aren't opposite sides of the same nutty coin?
I can only guess at how many people would die if you cripple the right information systems. You also miss that McVeigh wasn't right wing. The problems he had with Clinton are the same problems militias had with Bush and continue to have today - they hate the government, not democrats or republicans in particular.
At the end of the day, though, these guys represent much less of a threat to our day-to-day security than abusive fathers and husbands. Those bastards are responsible for a lot more of those 16,000 annual murders than some crazy lone wolf who finally snaps or even an organized cabal looking to strike back.
Your sources of information seem to be woefully lacking in objectivity as well as completeness.
September 26, 2009 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
GOP leaders such as Michelle Bachmann, Jean Schmidt, Sarah Palin and even Chuch Grassley John Boehner have supported the lunacy on the right.
Democrats had to distance themselves from a MoveOn.org ad and Rev Jeremiah wright. Please note neither MoveOn or Rev wright committed a violent at. The birthers and take my country back folks are getting support from GOP leadership. There is a difference.
September 25, 2009 7:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Echo chamber.
September 25, 2009 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
You mean like coming here with your right-wing buddies and making comments that have nothing to do with the content together?
Way out on a limb there.
Maybe I'll post "this sucks" on every blog you write (although I doubt you write many).
You honestly think anyone reads "Echo chamber." and gives it any authority or importance? The PERIOD really makes it HURTFUL.
If your gonna insult people, at least don't be a total pussy about it.
September 25, 2009 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, your premise is contradictory. You complain that the media neglects to cover violence when a right-wing ideology is involved, yet you provide links to media coverage of such violence. Doh!
September 25, 2009 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you're going to insult people's intelligence, at least you could get your grammar correct. I'll leave off the fact that Gasket is hardly right wing, though that is more indication of your complete inability to grasp subtle details.
September 25, 2009 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never said the media doesn't cover this, I asked why it's right-wing violence is seen as "potential" violence.
Perhaps you thought I meant "the media" when I mentioned Sean Hannity not mentioning the Holocaust shooter.
Understandable, since you get all your information from him.
Finally my "premise" is simple enough for even you to get:
THERE WERE 5 (possibly 6) MURDERS THIS YEAR LINKED TO FAR-RIGHT IDEOLOGY
Contradict that. G'won, try.
DOH!!
September 25, 2009 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
And just because there were 5 or 6 murders linked to "far-right" ideology - that is enough proof for you to conclude that right wingers kill more people than left wingers?
September 25, 2009 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's more actual POLITICAL violence from the right wing, yes. Sorry that FACT is beyond you.
How many Oklahoma City bombings would we need to do to come even close?
I'm done talking to you, both of you, Frick and Frack. You offer nothing.
RESPOND WITH SOME FACTS and i may answer. Otherwise fuck off.
September 25, 2009 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plenty of facts presented, very little willingness to consider those facts was the response.
September 25, 2009 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The above PROVES my point re right-wing violence. I'm still waiting for the peanut gallery to offer ANY left-wing violence that even comes CLOSE to Tim McVeigh.
YOU HAVE NOTHING. So fuck off.
September 25, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Providing like examples of left-wing violence hardly makes right-wing violence any more prevalent given the total number of murders in this country since Obama took office. You still refuse to understand the actual context of what it is you are discussing.
September 25, 2009 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope, you don't understand the context. And you have no answer so you try to play games.
I WIN!!
September 26, 2009 3:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Does your babysitter know you are using the Internet again?
September 26, 2009 8:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think personally that McVeigh is right wing any more than Ayers or the guy who tried to bomb the RNC last year. I also know lots of pro-lifers that are Democrats, so I'm not sure if all your abortion activists are necessarily "right-wingers".
Why are you so focused on keeping score?
September 25, 2009 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
You "personally"? Read something on it... a third grade textbook could probably do the trick.
LOL That explains all this CRAP on this thread.
I'd prefer it if the trend in right-wing violence slowed down or stopped, that's why I'm "keeping score", not that it's any of your business what I'm concerned about. You've made your supposed "point", cant you just shut up now?
But you won't so give me a link to this supposed RNC bomb scare no one but you has heard about. Or was that your "personal" feeling too?
September 26, 2009 3:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
You keep asking questions and at the same time telling me to fuck off and shut up. Which is it? What happend to "Great post bill!!" and just moving on?
McVeigh was protesting our government's actions and so were people like Ayers. What makes one left-wing and the other right-wing. They're both nuts for bombing buildings.
And since you asked - http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/04/details-on-rnc-bomb-plan/
September 26, 2009 7:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Test.
September 26, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is the majority of Americans part of either the "right wing" or the "left wing"?
If these terms are meant to apply to just two fringes of society that we view as radical and maybe just plain crazy, that is one thing.
But I think the reason why people object to IGMR's generalizations and stereotypes is that they feel he is associating "mainstream" Republicans and Democrats with these fringe groups.
If we're talking about just the "fringe groups" and people are so worried that 5 terrible murders might turn into 10 this year, well that's a problem but we've got lots of other problems that are killing many more people than that.
Am I worried about another Oklahoma City? Sure. But I don't think it's going to be committed by a card-carrying Democrat or Republican. Just like McVeigh, that next person will hate both Democrats and Republicans. They will hate anything associated with government. And unfortunately it will likely be something their dog told them to do rather than what they heard at a tea-party.
September 26, 2009 7:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sounds logical to me, though I am certain the OP will twist that simple explanation into something inflammatory with lots of four-letter words in all caps.
September 26, 2009 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Highest ratio of comments to recommends I've seen in a while. Probably because the content of the blog entry is about at the intellectual level of welfare-queens-in-Cadillacs: Taking pretty stories and dressing them up as evidence.
Besides, Obama had dinner with a convicted bomber himself. It isn't like the left doesn't, er, "grow their own" terrorist ethos as well. It's just that the jerks usually come out of the woodwork when the opposition is in power.
Crazy is not an ideology. Right and left are ideologies (if inconsistent ones, as currently described in the United States).
September 28, 2009 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink