« Stop It! Stop It! Stop It! Stop It! | ESK's Blog | The Republicans Need A New Base »

When Outrage Becomes Outrageous


Our economic problems have given rise to many in the blogosphere and elsewhere who appear to fancy themselves as economic experts. Certainly the economic conversation and discussion is welcome, needed and healthy. I confess though that I'm not one of those "experts." What I  do know, I've learned by following our economic trials and tribulations as the new administration tries to extricate us from this mess we've been left. While anger over AIG's arrogant and insensitive behavior is more than warranted (I'm angry too), there comes a point when that anger has to be channeled constructively to help fix the problem. There comes a point when outrage for outrage's sake occurs, and that is not productive. I believe that we are quickly reaching that point. Blaming the President, the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve is certainly something we can do. Frankly these people know more about the intricacies of the problems than we do; and even they admit that they are traveling in unchartered waters where mistakes have and will be made in the process. To evaluate then every action taken as a potential deal breaker, to demand perfect performance in dealing with problems, that for most of us are incomprehensively complicated, smacks of an impatience that I can only describe as either overanxious or immature. So I say to those old enough to know better, get a grip. And for those who think they know it all, grow up. Let the man and his people do their job, or better yet help in some fashion other than just complaining. We have that responsibility as a citizens.


34 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

So appreciate this. Couldn't agree more.

Thanks.

user-pic

Don't blame those innocent Democrats!

This whole multi-trillion-dollar calamity was only possible because of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.

And which President signed both components of that catastrophic double-whammy into law?

Bill Clinton.

And who was his point-man to push it through Congress?

Larry Summers.

But don't you just love all those innocent Democrats!

user-pic

Yeah and then Bush and the Republicans had the reins for 8 years and acted as if it were impossible regulate. Of course they didn't care. Bill Clinton is many things, but laissez faire he's not.

user-pic

I agree partially. I think people are acting as a hysterical mob and not really thinking about the sources of their outrage.

At the same time, it's pretty difficult to ignore that Summers helped start the deregulation trend and has always been beholden to Wall Street while Geithner was described as "hand-in-glove" with Paulson and is heavily invested in Wall Street. I think it's valid to observe less "mistakes" might be made if the people in charge didn't have allies generating personal fortunes as a result of each "mistake".

It's kind of like Cheney and Halliburton. How can we be surprised when these people use their power to enrich their peers? And how can we pretend that it won't be repaid when they leave office? BTW where's 'ole Hank now? Rich as hell that's where he is!

user-pic

My sentiments, pretty much, articulated better than I ever could.

Many bloggers embrace an admitted ideological agenda not necessarily aligned with Obama's approach to steering us out of this colossal mess and much to the consternation of many in the blogosphere, it may mean bailing out the unworthy if he deems that the global benefits to all outweigh holding these Wall Street cheaters liable. I am sure it is not a position he enjoys taking, but the reason he is so trusted is for his consistent cool-headed longterm view of things. Unfortunately, there is so much thirst for banker blood, well-deserved, I might add, that even the early signs of an uptick and hence merits to Obama's approach are being ignored in the heat of the moment.

Perhaps many have confused change for revolution and for vindication on a set of pet liberal issues and are bound to be disappointed if Obama's change turns out merely to be the pro-labor, pro-work, pro-production agenda for the vast majority at whatsoever cost rather than addressing absolutes promoted by many in the blogosphere. No drama Obama has often driven the bloggers nuts, but he reassures the market. I, for one, will pick the latter.

user-pic

Well said. As one of Obama's people said recently (I think), I'd rather have collateral benefits than collateral damage. I.e., if we have to help some people who don't deserve it in order to help those who do, so be it.

user-pic

Agreed. Well said.

user-pic

Thank you for this. The lynch mob attitude is beginning to be really counterproductive, and so pervasive I'm feeling a bit suffocated by it. Which is not to say I wouldn't want to see these people, if not exactly lynched, definitely flogged in public.

But not right now. The administration has bigger fish to fry right now and these bonuses are chickenshit in the larger scheme of things. And I think that's basically why the decision was made to let them fly. Geithner's a businessman not a Joe the Plumber populist and Treasury made a businessman's decision. It would've cost more -- in time and money -- to block the payouts then allow them.

user-pic

We do need to keep our heads and not let the rabble rousing Republicans create chaos when we need order. We do have the best man for the job at the top, because I agree that level-headed is what we need. However, I would disagree that blocking the bonuses is too time consuming. It dos not take much to be destructive, and the legal tack is not to win but to derail. We would not need our brightest legal minds to throw up endless blockades to those people getting their bonuses. After Franken is seated, there will be a few attorneys looking for work from Coleman's camp. Let's keep them out of the unemployment lines. They are long enough.

user-pic

I think I'd rather employ the attorneys who were helping Franken, since they seem more qualified. Presumably, they'll also need more work once the trial is over.

Maybe we can get Coleman's lawyers jobs at children birthday parties or something.

user-pic

LOL. Yup, that's one better.

user-pic

The outrage is warranted, I think we all agree on that. Where and how we direct it is an issue. Remember -- compensation limits should have been part of the original TARP legislation under the previous administration but it also should have been part of Obama's follow up legislation or could have been part of the stimulus bill. I totally understand if Obama's position was "let's not get caught up in that, let's get things passed." But... now I think we see it's an important issue and should be part of the next round of financial legislation, with Obama and Geithner's support.

One thing that does concern me is that it looks as if Obama is powerless to get the money back. The president shouldn't be made to look powerless in the face of an insurance company on taxpayer life support. I'm not going to call for anyone's head over this but it does need to be dealt with.

user-pic

Wow. People with the abiity to govern their rage. I knew there had to be some here around here somewhere.

The people at AIG's financial products division were instrumental in bringing us to the brink of financial apocolypse. The invented a scheme that allowed everyone else in the world of finance to pretend like the didn't know that CDO's backed by sub-prime mortgages were a recipe for catastrophe. If there were justice in the world, they'd be living in cardboard boxes and eating in soup kitchens.

What's been distressing to see people here who I considered to be sober and level-headed, even gentle and compassionate, get swept up into what can only be described as a lynch mob mentality. It's also unnerving because I know what, historically, how perilous it is to tell people in that state of mind o stop and think before they do something they'll be ashamed of later.

user-pic

ditto what NCSteve said:)

Enjoyed the blog ESK!

user-pic

I think this was the best blog I've read today. If we would quite getting so worked up about this stuff maybe we could try to enjoy life a little better.

user-pic

I don't see a lynch mob at all. I see people who are understandably and quite justifuably angry at the people in power for not doing what they ought to be doing. Sitting back and taking this "cooler head" approach is satisfying for those who do it but where does that get us except for deeper in the hole without even having complained? Sorry, but waiting patiently to get screwed without complaining does not seem like a very good strategy to me.

The number one thing they (our governmental leaders) ought to be doing is protecting the interest of the common folk taxpayers who are going to have to bear the burden of all this in the end. The Keystone Cops imitation that Geithner and Summers are doing on behalf of the President is appalling and it isn't because we haven't given them a chance. You can give these corporate people all the time in the world and they are still going to come up with the same dumbass approach which puts the interests of predatory wealth (the corporations and those filthy rich). Their approach is the problem and I would add it is indistinguishable from the bush approach. That is the primary problem that I think most people who are upset about the situation are really focused on.

Can you even believe these idiots knew about the bonus situation in advance and said nothing, did nothing to stop it and then blithely appear on the Sunday talk shows with some BS about "in this country we don't simply abrogate contracts." Bloody hell man that is pure unadulterated bullshit! All the backpedalling they've been doing is just that too. There is simply no excuse for the headlines over the past week about AIG. None at all.

To "tut tut" those who make it known they are pissed off about it and in essence simultaneously giving a pass on the bumbling incompetence at the top is just not okay. Obama is not being well served, the people are not being well served, but the crooks, thieves and conartists are (once again) getting away with murder. They have allowed God only knows how many of these crooks to skidaddle with so much money it isn't even funny. It is unacceptable. Compeltely unacceptable. And there isn't one shred of evidence that there this comedy of errors is going to end anytime soon!

So, while I understand your position I cannot agree with it. In my opinion, one of the biggest problems we have in America is that people don't get up in arms over matters like this. That's why the common people get fucked over so often and so easily. Hell, if people had hit the streets when Bush was stealing the election in 2000 we might not be in this awful spot right now. But no, the "cooler heads" prevailed. And the American people got royally screwed for 8 long years without even putting up a fight. I'm tired of being told to lie back and enjoy it while my country is being raped over and over and over again.

It's time to raise some hell and demand better than we're getting from those who clearly believe that protecting the guilty parties at the top is okay. If you won't raise hell over this what is it going to take? Will they have to physically harm or threaten immediate family members? There's nothing at all outrageous about being outraged at the unprecedented thievery that is going on and the looting of the treasury that Bush started and Obama's people have simply continued.

The President and the boobs he has appointed need to immediately demonstrate that they are on top of the situation in order to avoid a massive public outburst of very justifiable rage over this. I don't see them pulling it off frankly. Geithner inspires as much confidence as a high school senior delivering a valedictory address without notes and Summers is a disaster. Thus far, I have no confidence at all that they actually have a handle on the situation or that they know at all what they are doing.

This latest fiasco with the bonuses at AIG is just another log on the fire if you ask me. They need to quit trying to hide the fact that our banks are bankrupt, put them in receivership, get the bank examiners in their and put things back on track. At the same time, the Department of justice needs to have a special financial sector fraud unit put in place to ensure that every single one of the con artists responsible for sinking our economic ship go to jail for a long, long time, not to mentin repaying every penny they stole. Oh, and one more thing: no more bonuses for anyone at any company that is receiving public money in lieu of bankruptcy. These things would be a nice start. Till then, I say it's time to raise hell.

user-pic

I have to agree with oleeb here. This is exactly where a little push from the ground up may yield results.

user-pic

I agree, some push is absolutely called for. My concern is that too many don't know how to modulate; then the MSM picks up on it and turns it into a destructive firestorm.

user-pic

Just a couple of points - As I said, I think folks should rightly be angry about what AIG did. I certainly am. And I certainly think that elected and appointed officials should be held accountable by the public. But when I read your response I see some of the exact hyperbole and demand for instant problem remediation that I wrote about. We did get screwed for 8 years. That doesn't give us license to fan the flames indefinitely. That fanning of the flames is amplified by the MSM to further their own agenda; waters are muddied and important information is never heard. While the AIG bonus fiasco is important right now, in the end it will probably end up being a blip compared to the eventual outcome of the greater economic mess. All I'm saying is don't let the hell raising get out of hand. It won't be productive over the long haul. Let's keep our eye on the ball.

user-pic

Uh, they just stole the ball.

Sorry but it seems more like you just have a stylistic problem with the way some people express themselves and that you'd rather get screwed than point out that isn't acceptable. That sort of thinking is what let the bailout pass last fall, and it's what let's Democrats and Obama off the hook now for failing to change that course at all.

Respectfully, I think your read of the situation is simply dead wrong and your advice does nothing whatsoever to let the people screwing things up at the top know we disapprove. In fact, I'd say following the course you advise is tantamount to cheering them on. In case you haven't noticed, if the people don't raise hell they are totally ignored. But you keep your eye on that ball okay and don't get too upset ya hear? Lie back and enjoy? Naaah, no thanks, I don't think so.

user-pic

Actually I think that people should raise hell about AIG, and I said that. The question to you is for how long and to what end? My issues with what you say are not stylistic; they're tactical and ultimately strategic. Let's all get this off our chests for sure. And yes that's about holding those in power accountable. But at some point becoming a part of the problem solving process becomes more important. Grassroots organizations come to mind. With respect, that will help focus our message to whoever needs to hear it in a more effective way than just screaming into the internet cloud.

user-pic

How long and to what end?

As long as it takes and the end should be a new New Deal that redistributes political power and wealth in this country more equitably. It is the imbalances created over the years that have led to all this.

user-pic

I think it's safe to say any reasonable thinking person is angry but what I get from ESK's post is to use that anger constructively.

I've read there are protest being staged in various parts of the country. Some progressive organizations have petitions circulating. Barack Obama.com has a "Organizing for America" blog and I'm sure there are other ways to get involved depending on what's right for each individual. I'm also sure many of you have already discovered these places and are actively involved but I don't think it hurts to be reminded that talking, should also be combined with action. I bet that's something we can all agree on.

user-pic

Well said havethiughtwilltravel. Thanks.

user-pic

many in the blogosphere and elsewhere who appear to fancy themselves as economic experts.

Uncited, unreferenced and ad hominem. Most likely straw man as well, unless you have actual evidence -- with, y'know, quotes 'n' stuff -- of these unnamed "many in the blogosphere" who "fancy themselves as economic experts."

To evaluate then every action taken as a potential deal breaker, to demand perfect performance in dealing with problems, that for most of us are incomprehensively complicated, smacks of an impatience that I can only describe as either overanxious or immature.

Again, straw man. It is, for starters, not "every action" but the cumulative effect of ALL of them. And it is based on what is already known about the records, and ideological leanings, of the people at the helm. What is known give plenty of reason for mistrust.

So I say to those old enough to know better, get a grip. And for those who think they know it all, grow up.

More straw men. Nobody is saying they know it all. Nobody. What enough people are saying is that they know enough about the records, ideological leanings, and past performance of these folks to render them deeply suspicious. And Treasury's actions and inactions to date have done little to alleviate those suspicions.

user-pic

OK. So consider my post an op-ed and allow me to opine. But I did enjoy the analysis.

I do want to comment on one of your points - I don't agree that Treasury's actions and inactions to date have done little to alleviate those suspicions. The problem is that they haven't done a good job communicating what they're doing, so we don't really know. That information vacuum is being currently filled by too many opinions and not enough fact. I have to believe that, unless checked, the outrage will truly become outrageous.

user-pic

With respect, labeling a piece "opinion" does not give you license to use fallacious reasoning to make your points. That was the point of my comment.

As to your second point -- what, exactly, has Treasury done, yet failed to communicate, to alleviate those suspicions? And are those actions enough to negate, or sufficiently mitigate, other actions that are continuing to undermine the system as well as confidence in it?

user-pic

I lost the bet but I tried ESK,

Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug....shrug

...and you're welcome.:)

user-pic

Ain't that the truth. LOL

user-pic

"Blaming the President, the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Federal Reserve is certainly something we can do. Frankly these people know more about the intricacies of the problems than we do;..."

They understand LESS about the problem than the average American. The only true economic expert is someone who knows you can't get something for nothing and you can't fix an economy by rewarding the criminals who wrecked it.

Our economic situation is simple: first, our financial industry and government conspired to put as much middle-class money as possible into the pockets of the rich. Now, claiming that they are fixing the problem, they continue to do exactly the same thing.

user-pic

I think your assessment of how we got into our current economic situation is essentially accurate, but I disagree with your characterization of it being simple. It’s not simple. If it were simple it would be fixed already. As for doing the same thing, I also disagree. If that were the case we’d be much worse off than we are now.

Your assessment that those in charge know less about the workings of the economic problems than the average American is absurd. That statement is a prime example of outrage becoming outrageous.

user-pic

ESK, I judge those in charge by their actions, not by their resumes. Economists are spinmeisters in service to anyone who will pay them. Bernanke, Summers, and Geithner are professional BS artists serving the plutocrats. They have no desire to fix our problems; they only want to preserve the wealth and power of themselves and their friends.

I believe that the biggest threat to humankind is the death of common sense. Common sense says to fire incompetent workers, to put thieves in prison, and to let failed businesses fail.

user-pic

Doesn't this guy ESK sound sort of like an astroturfer?

Anyone got an idea of who might have sent him?

user-pic

No Ellen I'm not an astroturfer as you so "elegantly" put it. I'm real and you can talk to me directly and not in the third person. And oh by the way methinks you're a bit paranoid.

Leave a comment

ESK

user-pic

Following:
Followers: 1

Posts
Comments & Recommends


Favorites

All Reader Posts
How to use myTPM

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address