It depends on what you mean by "actionable."
People say torture provides poor intelligence because once you're torturing a guy, he'll say pretty much anything to get you to stop. That looks like a pretty good reason not to do it if you're interested in the truth.
But wait now, if you're the Bush administration, and truth is just one interesting aspect of what you're all about, you can make something of this. Let your guy know what you want him to say, and beat the hell out of him until he says it. Then present it as truth, because it comes from a source "who had a reason to know." No doubt about it, information whispered by a half-dead man into the ear of his interrogator has a certain gravitas, like words spoken by lovers in moments of exultation, or the confession of a dying man to a priest. People think twice before questioning information like that, which is what makes it golden.
Not actionable? Why son, it's the most actionable intelligence there is, because you can take any action you want based upon it. Refer obliquely to it in a press release, feed it into the legal justification machine, even go all out and invade a whole country (with oil) in a thoroughly nutty search for a terrorist connection that, let's face it, you just made up.
I suspect that as we delve even deeper into the "reasoning," such as it is, for the torture program, we'll discover this aspect lurking in the background: "Yup, we tortured 'em so they'd tell us all kinds of BS that we could pretend was true. And once that information was out there, we used it to justify going further, taking away more liberties, scaring people more. Yessiree, torture works--it works very well indeed. For us."
















Perfect summation of faulty logic given unreasonable power. Rec'd.
April 23, 2009 1:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yesiree, Great post. Plenty of food for thought.
Your giving the Government spin machine fits.
Bloggers Rule.
April 23, 2009 4:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bloggers do indeed rule. This is exactly why the prolonged torture of these prisoners was condoned.
April 23, 2009 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Care to elaborate?
April 23, 2009 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does this help?
April 23, 2009 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jason, I'm also curious about what you meant by your comment.
******
If anyone is still out there, I'd like to try to rewrite this post and make it clearer, because I think this is one aspect of how the Bush Administration used torture for its own ends. Any thoughts on how to do that? Here are some directions I'm thinking about:
There's an aspect of "These people are so bad that we have to torture them to get any information at all. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it. YOU wouldn't have the guts to do it, would you?" The effect is to ridicule anyone who speaks up, as well as elevate the interrogator/torturer to the status of hero for being willing to undertake the task.
On the aspect of the respect accorded to information obtained by coercion (what TheraP would, I think, call "the terrible intimacy of torture," a way to describe it would be:
We had to waterboard this guy 167 times to get this information--how dare you imply that it's not true." Which would be a convincing argument for those not convinced by the argument that torture doesn't provide good information.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "torture program" itself was part of a disinformation campaign that was used on us, to put down dissent and elevate the BA in our minds in the creepiest way possible.
April 23, 2009 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
IMO, the post is pretty good as it sits. Your point comes across loud and clear and is an interesting, likely accurate, observation.
April 23, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was agreeing with the premise that the reason these prisoners were tortured over long periods of time was to justify their actions to combat the "threat" uncovered. The scenario you painted sounds correct to me. In fact, systematic torture from throughout history is only meant to extract information to justify oppressive actions.
April 23, 2009 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. I don't know why I never really considered the idea that torture was an integral part of the PR campaign.
April 23, 2009 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Orwell was more prescient that Nostradamus.
April 23, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks.
April 23, 2009 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, Eric, that I won't be able to make much of a comment here. Except to say that your question to me about a post I'm proposing: It's not the same as what you've written. Not at all. From my perspective, what you write here is pretty much self-evident. But again, I apologize that I don't have time to make a more specific comment today.
April 23, 2009 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will very much look forward to reading it. Your leadership on this subject has been invaluable.
April 23, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink