How come it was important enough in 2007 .....
to take time out from the serious work of the House of Representatives to pass a resolution "strongly condemning" a private organization for taking out a newspaper ad that contained an implied insult to a General (something that I believe falls under freedom of speech also) .................................. but it isn't important enough to vote to admonish one of their own members for violating House rules and directly insulting and interrupting the President of the United States (that General's boss)?
According to Boehner, this resolution is "patently partisan" and represents an effort by the Democrats to "change the subject" And the 2007 resolution introduced by Republicans was ...... what?
Is there anyone in the media who will ask Boehner about this to his face?
(That vote, by the way, was 341-79 -- so apparently Democrats don't line up like lemmings, even when it's a "partisan" Republican bill. Let's see what the Republicans do.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org_ad_controversy
Marre, Klaus (2007-09-26). "House overwhelmingly condemns MoveOn ad". The Hill. http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/house-overwhelmingly-condemns-moveon-ad-2007-09-26.html. Retrieved 2007-09-26 [[not sure this works but maybe if you use the search feature]]
According to Boehner, this resolution is "patently partisan" and represents an effort by the Democrats to "change the subject" And the 2007 resolution introduced by Republicans was ...... what?
Is there anyone in the media who will ask Boehner about this to his face?
(That vote, by the way, was 341-79 -- so apparently Democrats don't line up like lemmings, even when it's a "partisan" Republican bill. Let's see what the Republicans do.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org_ad_controversy
Marre, Klaus (2007-09-26). "House overwhelmingly condemns MoveOn ad". The Hill. http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/house-overwhelmingly-condemns-moveon-ad-2007-09-26.html. Retrieved 2007-09-26 [[not sure this works but maybe if you use the search feature]]
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Come on, Liz. You act like you've never heard of the Double Standard. Democrats are partisan, Republicans are righteous. It's always been that way. Next thing you know, you'll be saying something nasty about Joe McCarthy. (And then I'll have to put your name on The List.)
September 15, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
D'oh. Silly me! Thanks for the (apparently needed) reminder! Alas, I suspect I made The List long ago.
But on a serious note, political junkies like the folks on TPM read and remember these events and quite clearly see the hypocrisy and, as you say, double standard. But I'm willing to bet that a lot of the self-identified Republicans and conservatives watching this unfold now don't have any memory of what happened in 2007 and thus no perspective on the idiocy of what is being said now. One thing most Americans do have is an innate sense of fairness, so it's worth noting this, I think, if only to have some details at hand if any of us get into a conversation about this current flap.
September 15, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some time after that some democrat made an apology from the floor for some nasty comment he made about the republicans. I've been racking my brains to try and remember who it was. Maybe this reminder will help someone else remember it.
September 15, 2009 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just saw this in an AP story - perhaps what you were thinking about?
"In 2007 Republicans unsuccessfully introduced a censure resolution against Rep. Pete Stark, D-Calif., for saying during debate that U.S. troops were being sent to Iraq "to get their heads blown off for the president's amusement." Stark later apologized to his colleagues."
September 15, 2009 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even worse, he refused to pee on the president's leg and thus dignify him.
September 15, 2009 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This Wilson censure/disapproval/what-have-you thing is stupid and the condemnation of MoveOn thing was stupid.
September 15, 2009 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Addison Graves Wilson incident was in violation of House Rules, the House Resolution against Move-on was in violation of the first amendment. Both were based in "stupid" politics, but their is a big difference.
September 15, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Glaivester. Two wastes of congress's time, don't make a productive session. People are dying, going bankrupt, losing their homes for lack of economic and HC refrom.
How decorous is it to get in bed with corporate lobbies and lie to your real constituents about it? How civil is it to kick the health care reform and financial regulation cans down the road until there is nothing to be done but compromise the actual reform parts of reform?
September 16, 2009 2:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hope the Democrats don't push this in the House, because it is already becoming counterproductive. Initially, almost everyone except those on the extreme right condemned Wilson, but obsession with his transgression is now starting to make a martyr of him. Worse, it's turning off moderates who don't want to see this issue overshadow healthcare or other important topics competing for media attention. President Obama has already tried to make that point, and I hope others listen.
Political wisdom requires knowing when to exploit opportunities, but also knowing not to overplay your hand.
September 15, 2009 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fred I would normally agree, but seems to me they were going to use it as a "rebel yell" anyway. There is enough incivility in our debate now, to not sanction a violation of House Rules would leave the door open to further escalation in rancor.
September 15, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
And as Rep. Clyburn said, a simple apology on the House floor would have ended it.
September 15, 2009 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I gather the House has just voted to rebuke Wilson, and that is likely to end formal action. My own preference would have been to leave the situation at the point where Wilson was very unpopular with most of the public and with the Republican leadership, but whether that would have been a good idea can only be guessed.
I preferred Obama's approach, with his statement - "Everyone makes mistakes". It made Obama seem magnanimous, emphasized that Wilson had made a mistake, and by implication asked the rest of us to return to the more important issues. In terms of a personal duel between Obama and Wilson, that remark, in my view, made Obama the clear winner in the eyes of those whose opinions probably count most - moderates without extreme partisan agendas.
September 15, 2009 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup. This is most definitely something to be chalked up to the elephant in the media room: Republicans can act like spoiled children and get away with it because everyone knows they're spoiled children and that's just what spoiled children do. Democrats, on the other hand, are supposed to be the adults in the picture and are admonished by the media and themselves when they step out of line. Al Franken (who I love even more every day!) had that great line in his last book ("Liars...") about Republicans loving their country -- when it was a Bush government -- like a child loves his mom; it's unquestioning, unconditional love. Democrats, though, love their country as spouses love each other; though they are, indeed, in love, they also know that there are problems in this imperfect relationship that must be addressed -- like adults.
Thing is, that old saying about the squeaky wheel getting the grease is never more apt than now; our spoiled brothers and sisters are growing in number, even converting the otherwise "normal" children (oh Pawlenty, you disappoint!), so take the analogy further and think about who wins in a battle of wills at the shopping mall every Saturday -- the screaming child or the rational adult. I'd say it's about a 60/40. I don't like those odds.
September 15, 2009 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
The right is pushing things hard to bring about maximum conflict. They believe it serves their ends to do so but, as usual, they are wrong. But they are only wrong if our side demonstrates to them and their followers that we will not tolerate their indecency, their racism, their xenophobia and all the rest of the bigotry, hatred and ignorance they are bursting with. Now is the time to smack them down. If we wait, they will be harder to smash and there will be a great deal more conflict as a result of waiting to confront them.
September 16, 2009 2:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with youy, Oleeb. The people are leaving the GOP and that's a good thing because perpetuating the Party of Dubya will lead to nothing short of disaster.
September 16, 2009 3:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I recall this. General Betrayus...ha
Good solid solid point. exactly the kind of fact checking that needs to be brought to the fore in this great propaganda war.
Of course if they wish to morph 60,000 people into two million....do they really care anymore?
I do not care what they care about anymore.
When the planes of propaganda fly over with lying leaflets, SHOOT EM DOWN.
GOOD POST.
September 16, 2009 2:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you say something with authority and you repeat it and the lazy media repeat as news...it seems true. The Republicans have really honed this strategy and use it very effectively.
Even in this case, it will be easy to belittle the resolution and make it seem like partisan pettiness. I think pointing out the hypocrisy of the Republican outrage is a good thing.
On the issue of the outburst itself, the resolution was needed. Joe Wilson refused to apologize in front of the House and has received a lot of attention and money and the flood gates may well be open and congressmen will now compete to be loudly disrespectful during presidential appearances before congress. On that alone, Joe Wilson needed to be formally admonished. Good post.
September 16, 2009 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
The subliminal message her is that you can question the President, but do not question the military.
September 16, 2009 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink