Wilson's Non-Apology
I know I'm way behind in the news cycle here, but there's something about the "apology" of Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) to President Obama after calling the President a liar that continues to bother me.
Others have pointed out that Wilson was wrong on the facts. What Obama said, and Wilson called a lie, was actually true. The proposed health care reforms would not provide federal benefits to illegal immigrants.
Others have also pointed out that in his "apology" Wilson did not admit to any factual error. His statement included the qualification that "I disagree with the President's statement," as though Wilson might be entitled not only to his own opinion but also to his own facts. Wilson's "apology" merely expressed regret that his "You lie" outburst was "inappropriate" and represented a "lack of civility."
But there is another problem with Wilson's outburst and his apology that I haven't seen addressed, which is that Wilson did not shout "You're wrong" or "You're ignorant" or even "You're stupid." Wilson shouted "You lie." Wilson publicly shouted his belief that what the the President was saying was not just wrong, but deliberately, consciously, and maliciously dishonest.
And Wilson did not retract anything in his "apology." He didn't admit that he was wrong about the facts, and he didn't admit that he was wrong about the President's supposed lack of honesty. All he did was apologize for yelling his opinion at the wrong time and in the wrong place.
Wilson called the President of the United States a liar to his face and in public, and has not yet issued any retraction of that judgment. He did not apologize for what he thought, but only for saying it out loud.
True civility is more than the maintenance of a facade of decorum. Just as peace is more than the absence of violence, civility is more than the absence of rudeness. True civility, and true civilization, requires respect for one another. Wilson expressed disrespect to Obama during the joint session of Congress, and confirmed that disrespect by the superficiality of his "apology."
Others have pointed out that Wilson was wrong on the facts. What Obama said, and Wilson called a lie, was actually true. The proposed health care reforms would not provide federal benefits to illegal immigrants.
Others have also pointed out that in his "apology" Wilson did not admit to any factual error. His statement included the qualification that "I disagree with the President's statement," as though Wilson might be entitled not only to his own opinion but also to his own facts. Wilson's "apology" merely expressed regret that his "You lie" outburst was "inappropriate" and represented a "lack of civility."
But there is another problem with Wilson's outburst and his apology that I haven't seen addressed, which is that Wilson did not shout "You're wrong" or "You're ignorant" or even "You're stupid." Wilson shouted "You lie." Wilson publicly shouted his belief that what the the President was saying was not just wrong, but deliberately, consciously, and maliciously dishonest.
And Wilson did not retract anything in his "apology." He didn't admit that he was wrong about the facts, and he didn't admit that he was wrong about the President's supposed lack of honesty. All he did was apologize for yelling his opinion at the wrong time and in the wrong place.
Wilson called the President of the United States a liar to his face and in public, and has not yet issued any retraction of that judgment. He did not apologize for what he thought, but only for saying it out loud.
True civility is more than the maintenance of a facade of decorum. Just as peace is more than the absence of violence, civility is more than the absence of rudeness. True civility, and true civilization, requires respect for one another. Wilson expressed disrespect to Obama during the joint session of Congress, and confirmed that disrespect by the superficiality of his "apology."
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agreed and rec'd...I'm getting a bit sick of these non-apology apologies. If you are going to apologize, do it. If not, don't waste your breath.
September 15, 2009 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
No shit. Guy needs to man up. Either apologize or don't back down. You can't have it both ways.
Coward.
September 15, 2009 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
An apology that is a lie is not only not an apology, it is an insult requiring additional apology.
September 15, 2009 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly!
I believe if his 'outburst' is allowed to stand as is, with faux apology and no consequences from fellow members of Congress, this will only be the beginning of a downward spiral into a murky and bottomless cesspool.
September 15, 2009 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's very strange that this is the second time where such an outright lie has prompted changes in the text of the proposed legislation.
First Sarah Palin "lied".
And even though it was a "lie", a Senate panel promptly removed the verbiage on advance care planning from the proposed bill.
Then Joe Wilson "lied".
And even though it was a vile evil lie, Democrats once again tripped all over themselves to respond to something that was completely untrue - in this case, to create a specific mechanism of verification of legal status (which of course wasn't there before).
I don't get it. We have two rude, classless, racist, right-wing terrorist demagogues - who lie! - and yet they somehow get the result that deals exactly with what they lied about.
So who's going to "lie" about the public option? I can't wait for that one.
September 15, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hereby recommend this comment.
September 15, 2009 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, Lis, did u get he's referring to Obama?
September 15, 2009 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but his point is a valid one.
September 15, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
This point?
We have two rude, classless, racist, right-wing terrorist demagogues - who lie! - and yet they somehow get the result that deals exactly with what they lied about.
(Sorry, still can't figure out blockquotes.)
September 15, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that point. It's true.
September 15, 2009 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a good observation lalo. The Democrats look so timid, in the end, Lindsey Graham will just have to say "Boo!" and they'll cave on the public option.
September 15, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Minor quibble by "look so timid" I think you mean "are so timid"
September 15, 2009 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't think Lalo means what you think he means, guys. He means the 'lies' weren't lies, as proven by the Dems' corrective action. Of course he's wrong, but that's a separate issue...
September 15, 2009 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh. See, I always make the mistake of taking things at face value. Knowing the liars were lying, I thought Lalo was admitting that.
My bad.
Thanks for the clarification. Had Lalo had tongue in cheek, I'd have agreed. I still agree to the tongue in cheek statement that I took it to be, though.
Is that allowed? LOL...
September 15, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check. I now notice the quotation marks now around 'lied'.
September 15, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't agree. I think what he means is clear, and I agree with him. His point is that the Democratic majority has been so intimidated by false accusations that they have rushed to prove them wrong by violating their own principles.
Case in point 1. Advance planning is universally recognized as a wise process to help individuals plan end of life decisions, without forcing them on anyone - an idea first proposed in legislation by Republicans. Call them "death panels" and the Democrats rush to abolish this valuable component of healthcare.
Case in point 2. Compassion for all people, including illegal immigrants is a fundamental human value, and means that punishment for violaters should not include the "get sick and die" penalty. However, as soon as the were falsely accused of being compassionate, the Democrats raced to prove that they were every bit as cruel as anyone could possibly demand. They weren't going to let the Republicans claim the cruelty championship uncontested.
Otherwise, I agree with the initial post that an apology for falsely accusing someone of lying is appropriate, beyond the apology for doing it in an uncivil fashion. However, the former is common and the latter less so when it comes to presidential addresses, and so the latter garnered the lion's share of attention.
September 15, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was going by his use of scare quotes around "lie", Fred. Otherwise agree with the substance of your views.
September 15, 2009 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but I did forget to mention that Lalo also asked "who's going to lie about the public option?"
He must have been visiting another planet for the last three months.
September 15, 2009 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone know how Joe Wilson voted (or what his comments on the floor of the House were) in any other cases in during his tenure where Democrats were accused of incivility? What did he say when the Dems booed Bush about Social Security privatization? Would be interesting to know if he's a hypocrite as well as a liar and a boor.
September 15, 2009 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink