More Anti-Obama Hate at Palin Rally outside Las Vegas
The scene following a Sarah Palin rally Oct. 21 outside Las Vegas turned ugly when departing McCain/Palin supporters confronted a small group of peaceful pro-Obama demonstrators. Video from the Las Vegas Sun shows McCain/Palin supporters in Henderson NV shouting, "Vote McCain, Not Hussein!" at Obama supporters in addition to more overtly race-based taunts including nonsensical charges that Obama either is an Arab or has dangerous ties to Arabs. One woman shouts: "This country needs to wake up! Obama is dangerous! This man is a tyrant to this country. I mean, he has connections to Arabs! His education was paid for by Arabs! He's an abomination!" A man says: "Yes, I am a racist.... Those Arabs are dirtbags. They're dirty people, they hate Americans, they hate my kids, they hate my grandkids." More video from the Henderson event at Youtube includes the usual shouts of "Terrorist!", "Communist!", and "Anti-American!" at the small group of Obama supporters in addition to two men shouting: "No Arabs in the White House!" while the Obama supporters sing "Why can't we be friends?" An additional video at Youtube includes one man shouting "Dope and loose change!" at Obama supporters and a woman shouting: "Barack Hussein Obama! Barack Hussein, he associates with terrorists...! He is anti-American, he is anti-military, he has done nothing for Chicago, his middle name is a terrorist name, he takes money from terrorists, he associates with terrorists!" These video records from Henderson NV are only the latest in a growing library of similar material from McCain/Palin events across the United States, illustrating a disturbing pattern of hate-based behavior at these events that seems to be intensifying as Election Day nears.
Mark C. Eades
http://www.mceades.com
And the McPalin supporters will challenge those who report and criticize these phenomena to "prove" they are associated with McPalin.
Duh! They happen most intensively during and especially AFTER such rallies.
Where are these extremely hateful people coming from?
October 25, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
They've always been with us, Jnag. Living across the street. Working in the next office. Sitting next to us at the games.
Not bad people really. Just ignorant and fearful. I think ignorance leads to fear, which drives out love and lets hate come in.
After Obama successfully leads the country for a while, alot of these people may change for the better.
October 25, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
One thing they are NOT is AFRAID. They are too damned out front about where they're at for that to be the rality. They are far too confident in their racism and hatred to be correctly viewed as fearful.
Arrogance, yes -- which is always the mirror opposite of the unconscious reality: they hate themselves as well.
No, it isn't about fear. It's about poor self-esteem, and bullying those who the are told look down at them. They are emboldened to act out their incivility publicly, with confidence that it is acceptable. No, they do not fear. And it is near to making excuses for them to assert that they are.
October 26, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
SERIOUS QUESTION, why is it thse supporters never say anything positive about McPalin? They only mention Obama? Isn't that pretty sad, nothing positive to give to this country.
October 25, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
They do as they see and are told. McPalin have nothing to say about what they have to offer; so they regurgitate a few slogans mixed in with concernted smears against Obama.
That's how FOX and hate-radio operate: everything is shoollyard name-calling and bullying and shoutings-down. And the latter call it "discussion" and "debate".
And what they see and hear are "conservatives" -- which we realize are nothing more than overpaid bullies -- "winning" all their "debates" with "liberals" who are either paid to lose, are are simply shouted down, or their microphoes turned off. They are told that is "debate" and they actually believe it is that.
Thant's why the incomprehensibility: the come online and make allegations which are unfounded, without a shred of effort to substantiate that they are true. They simply don't know the difference between a baldfaced assertion, and a fact that is proven to be a fact.
Everything has been reduced in the only media they'll consume to opinion -- and that is a relief to them: it helps them feel equal to all those "elitists". Everything is opionion; there is no truth.
So a rebuilding is necessary, beginning with pointing to the fact that not all opinions are equal: some opinions are informed, some are uninformed. That begins to wake them.
So the white trash we see in these videos simply imitate those who are teaching them how to "discuss" and "debate". Except it isn't that. And who to hate: and that they do, even though all they have to say is incoherent, extreme nonsense.
October 26, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to have to take your word for the description, because the video is taking for-freakin'-ever to buffer... But from what I did manage to see, I have to wonder: Did Sister Sarah cast some demons into her supporters at that rally? Or maybe she handed out amphetamines? Yeesh, what a venom-spewing cast of neanderthals.
October 25, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's loading at maybe 1% of the speed my network is capable of (I've only seen one site do that, though).
It's pretty important that some of this stuff gets out, more mainstream. NYT finally had an article about her churches, including the Muthee blessing, mentioning that these are now out on youtube. They were old, old news to me.
October 25, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting contrast, and perhaps why one should stay away from it: her pastor, the one concerned with witches, is from Kenyan. Obama's father was from Kenya.
I mostly say leave that aspect of her "religion" alone; but not the part of the "theology" which seems demons in geographical terms . . . that seems to fit with her small-town comments about what parts of America are American, and what parts anti-American. Another instance of code-speak by means of which she reaches out to any memboers of the network of that fringe lunacy. That America-hating fringe.
Interesting, is it not, that these far-right anti-American extremists work under the radar, in rural areas, away from scrutiny and critique or the diversity of larger groupings of people/s.
October 26, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
People have learned that Palin expects them to behave this way at her rallies. And now that she seems to be moving away from McCain's handlers, iy should happen more often. The mob mentality must be really stimulating for some people. Just watch an audience (I refuse to say congregation) during some televangelist's harangues. It's scary...they act almost possessed, and it's embarassing to watch them. I see no difference between them and Palin's supporters, axtually.
October 26, 2008 6:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Inside the McPAlin campaign there are complaints about her "going rogue". I would guess that's a bit more "mavericky" than is allowed.
Her history is a consistent pattern of backstabbing her mentors once she has superceded them. A mayor takes her under his wing . . . she shoves him out of the way and takes his job. A governor does so, she turns him in for being corrupt, and takes his job -- and his place at the trough.
October 26, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is history. YouTube 'em. So unbelievable, no one will believe it otherwise.
Wanted to go see Palin when she came near and find out what she's telling the faithful, but only the faithful could get in. (You have to have a ticket. Be on their list. Sort of like getting to vote.) I actually did see Obama in Roanoke, and what a sweet difference. Beautifully organized parking and buses, all going off w/out a hitch, even in the rain. Which world do YOU want to live in?
October 25, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I cant watch that.. its too much hate for me.
October 25, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree 100%, don't want to watch either. It does something to your soul to witness such hatred. Scary that these are their constituents/supporters.
October 26, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can see the same thing outside abortion clinics. Same sort of people, I guess.
October 26, 2008 6:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't fall into the trap:
They are women's health clinics which may OR MAY NOT provide abortions. They ARE NOT "abortion clinics". Salvi murdered people in a women's health clinic based upon the constant anti-choice -- and media -- misrepresentations of it as being instead an "abortion clinic".
I gave up long ago correcting the media on the point: they don't seem to want to get it right, even though the misrepresentation has been getting people murdered for decades.
October 26, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am ashamed to admit that I'm from Las Vegas. I left four years ago for an overseas position and I have no intention of returning anytime soon. Those videos should be ample reasons why.
October 26, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
This whole ruse of using phrases like "he's a muslim", or "he's an arab", are just the lame ass dodges that these fine folks hide behind, because they are just too damn cowardly to say what they really think, which is "he's a nigger". And if they thought they could get away with saying it, I am certain that they would.
October 26, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I tend to think you are right, although the fact that so many people believed that Iraqis were behind the 9/11 terrorism is powerful evidence of the effectiveness of administration/right-wing propaganda in an age of media consolidation. I really think it is a combination of racism, deep fears about the uncertainty of our future and a media portrayal which demagogues and dehumanizes him. The Republicans are corrupted by power, addicted to it and have no interest whatever in bipartisan government or dealing with the fact that they are not a majority party. Their "final solution" is to remove the Democratic alternative from the political process, to destroy/delegitimize the Democratic party; Karl Rove has acknowledged this. Voter suppression, gerrymandering and intimidation of the MSM are all manifestations. I think there is tacit, probably overt high level approval for dehumanization of Obama as the ultimate delegitmization of the the Democratic Party via casting the symbolic figurehead as "other", "anti-American" a "socialist" a"tyrant", "a terrorist". The level of acceptable aggression towards him at rallies, or in the right wing media is remarkable, far more than I recall with Kerry, Gore, even Clinton.
October 26, 2008 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it included FEAR they wouldn't be so boldly and proudly out-loud about any of it.
It is not FEAR -- and they don't deserve that excuse. It is RACIST HATRED based upon PROUD, even ARROGANT, IGNORANCE.
October 26, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I don't understand is why the McCain supporters spew nonsense and the Obama one's just chant innocuous stuff like "O-Ba-Ma". I find it hard to believe that our side hasn't engaged in some colorful repartee at some point.
October 26, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've been to rallys so its no surprise but to think the left hasn't been yelling the same stuff from the other direction is blindness and real ignorance.
"You have to have a ticket. Be on their list. Sort of like getting to vote"
MM Duh and the dems don't have similar venues? They do. BTW tMcCain and Plain have had open rallys just like Obama. To think all of MCCain and Plain's are closed is once again blind ignorance. But then again your probably a 20 something no nothing so its of no surprise.
October 26, 2008 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
I suggest you reread your post. You are making absolutely no sense.
October 26, 2008 4:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
It makes sense in the usual incoherent, illeterate way that McPalin supporters do. They accuse, and accuse, and smear, and say, "So do you!" but provide no evidence for any of it. It isn't that they're afraid -- if they were halfway smart they'd fear, at very least, being seen as the idiots they are being.
What they don't get is really simple: that being stupid is not a way to be intelligent.
October 26, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would gladly view any video you can provide a link to that shows anyone outside or inside an Obama or Biden rally shouting equally hateful comments.
October 26, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Many people believed that Iraqis were behind the 9/11 terrorism is powerful evidence of the effectiveness""
Why did Sadam kill the crippled "ex" AlQueda operative he had been protecting days after 9/11? There was much circumstanial evidence Alqueda and Sadam had were talking. Not enough for "official reports" or MSM but its there non the less. Has been for some time but when you choose to make up your mind on emotion whats the point of thinking. Where there is smoke there is fire. Missing Industral equipment in Davids Kay's report? The stuff the UN inspectors weren't allowed to classify as together and capable of WMD removed during the build up? I knew who Bin Laden was on 9/10 did you ?
October 26, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
That is such total bullshit...fearmongering "looking to justify invasion" bullshit. Not a shred of evidence to support that crap beyond speculation from wingers.
October 26, 2008 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
sylvayn, Saddam and Al-Qaeda did have some initial conversations, but the distrust and dislike on the part of both parties quickly killed any thoughts of a tactical alliance.
Al-Q was the initiator as they had the most to gain, while Saddam had little to gain from the alliance.
They each had different perceived enemies. For Saddam, it was Iran. A-Q and the US barely made his radar. A-Q had an assortment of enemies, but at the time Iran was not included.
(1)Even, and I stress EVEN if Saddam had nuclear weapons they weren't suitcase ready and able, and thus would have done A-Q no good. (2) Even if Saddam had suitcase ready weapons, he would NEVER have given them to A-Q. The man was so paranoid that he would not have given them to his own sons. When he knew the US was on its way, he didn't want to give guns to his front line of defense - the feyadeen.
The type of details that you're so focused on are the same ones that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld grabbed on to and never let go. That's how we lost the war. War is an extension of politics. The politics of a Saddam/A-Q alliance never had a chance.
October 26, 2008 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
The requirements of a nuclear bomb are such that a "suitcase" bomb in any literal sense is simply not possible outside James Bond -- and far-right paranoia.
October 26, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Asshole:
Why did Sadam kill the crippled "ex" AlQueda operative he had been protecting days after 9/11?
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Because the alleged "al Qaeda" "operative" was not in his custody.
Get it through your proud stupidity: Sadam Hussein was put into power, and kept in power, by the West. A main reason for doing so was that he was the #1 exterminator of terrorists in the Middle East.
Some really pointed fact you'd know if you didn't have your head so far up your ass you almost look normal:
Osama bin Laden had been LOUDLY on the record as wanting Saddam Hussein overthrown for at least five years before 9/11. And for his gov't being replaced by one along the lines of that in Iran.
There is only ONE THING Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden had in common: they wre MUTUAL ENEMIES.
Saddam Hussein was essentially an ATHEIST. Osama bin Laden was all along a RELIGIOUS extremist.
Osama bin Laden owes G. W. Bush a thank you, becaues Bush overthrew Saddam -- as Osama bin Laden wanted -- and put into power the Iraqi Shi'a. The gov't in Iran is -- bingo! -- Shi'a.
By removing Saddam from power, Bush removed the West's ally/Iran's ENEMY, and thus made Iran the most powerful country in the region.
Why are those facts the reality? Because Bush is at least as ignorant of the hoistroy and reality as YOU.
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There was much circumstanial evidence Alqueda and Sadam had were talking.
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There was no such "evidence" because they were not "talking". Saddam Hussein/atheist and al Qaeda religious fanatics were OBVIOUSLY ENEMIES.
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Not enough for "official reports" or MSM but its there non the less.
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It was only there in the lies of the Bushit criminal enterprises, and in the willingness of the racist gullibles to believe anything that confirmed their existing -- false -- bigotries.
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Has been for some time but when you choose to make up your mind on emotion whats the point of thinking.
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Ask yourself that, asshole. Especailly in view if this non-argument/cliche/substitute for thought:
Where there is smoke there is fire.
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Where there's smoke there is not ALWAYS fire.
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Missing Industral equipment in Davids Kay's report?
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David Kay believing as fanatically as you that there were WMDs. He was the Bushit criminal enterprise's one guy who could be trusted to find them. Except thsat not only did he not find any, he turned out to be HONEST about that fact.
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The stuff the UN inspectors weren't allowed to classify as together and capable of WMD removed during the build up?
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If you know "they" were moved, then you know "where" they were moved to. Where, pray tell, were they moved to?
Here's a clue for you, asshole: the US has satellites that can read the numbers on a license plate. ALL those satellites were focused on Iraq. IF "they" were "moved" somewhere, the Bushit criminal enterprise would not only KNOW where "they" were moved to, but would have the PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE.
Instead, when it was found that which had all along been known -- that there wren't any WMDs -- they "leak" was that "probably" they'd been moved to Syria.
"Probably"? With the intelligence-gathering abilities afforded by those satellites, had their been WMDs -- there weren't -- and they had been moved -- one cannot move that which doesn't exist -- then the Bushit criminal gang would have known where they had been moved, and would have provided the EVIDENCE.
They had no evidence for that claim because the WMDs didn't exist -- as they knew in advance -- and therefore weren't moved.
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I knew who Bin Laden was on 9/10 did you ?
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Certainly. That's why I knew he had been LOUDLY on the record for at least five years by then as wanting Saddam Hussein, the "infidel"/atheist OVETHORWN and his gov't replaced by one along the lines of the theocracy in Iran. Bush overthrew Saddam, and replaced his gov't with one run by and aligned with: Iran.
All the lies you spew have been thoroughly refuted, dozens of times over, even by such as David Kay. Get your head out of your ass and "move on" from the false propaganda to the present.
October 26, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
After Obama successfully leads the country for a while, alot of these people may change for the better.
Yeah as soon as your side acts like grown-ups. I'll root for Obama if he is my president. Its my duty unlike the majority of the Bush is the devil leftists.
Make no mistake though things have already changed. We have lost the right of our country. 2 straight wars with 1/2 the country acting like spoiled children. Don't be too happy though. The majority of our military are on the right. The military is currently recalling troops that have recently gotten out. What happens if Russia or China chooses to take advantage of our current weakness? THE DRAFT. Liberals and Conservatives against the war and the draft. LOL. Can you say civil war. Sure am glad I've clung to my GUNS and religion. I hope I'm wrong but Tax and Protectionist Dems will destroy this country. Afterall you get what you pay for. And the dems have been bought and paid for far longer then the repubs. But I'm sure you all know that. LOL
October 26, 2008 1:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bush is the devil...how much more does he have to devastate the nation and offend the world before you see how bad he is???. No comparison...and there is no such thing as a "leftist" in America. The country cannot be moved too far right...ever but disagree with the right and your a leftist. Pray tell us all what a leftist is, what policies.
October 26, 2008 2:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are so filled with hate that more than half of what you wrote makes no sense.
You stink of desperation and a loss of control.
Get some help.
October 26, 2008 4:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what you're really afraid of (behind all the bluster) but I suspect that when life in the US starts getting much better, you are going to feel rather foolish. I doubt you say any of this in real life.
October 26, 2008 6:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Know what happens when you pretend to be stupid for too long? You end up being actually stupid --
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Yeah as soon as your side acts like grown-ups.
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Are you capable of thought? Or is everything about hate and smearing and name-calling as substitute for taking responsibility for your foul mouth?
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I'll root for Obama if he is my president. Its my duty unlike the majority of the Bush is the devil leftists.
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No, asshole, it is NOT your "duty" to "rioot for" a prsident you don't like -- which like or dislike cannot be constant unless one is simple-minded and dishonest. No one is perfect -- eithr perfectly good or bad. Thus it isn't possible to agree -- or disagree -- one hundred percent with a president.
READ the First Amendment: it protects the right of free speech. More pointedly, it protects UNPOPULAR speech, because POPULAR speech needs no protection.
That should tell you something that's obvious to those who actually think: DISSENT is a duty. To support the gov't when the gov't is WRONG is to support WRONG. How much wrong are you willing to support before you admit you've joined with and become evil?
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Make no mistake though things have already changed. We have lost the right of our country.
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None of that makes any sense. But that's what happens when you repeat what you are told as substitute for doing your own thinking.
Read the First Amendment.
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2 straight wars with 1/2 the country acting like spoiled children.
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The spoiled children are those who ignore the rule of law in pursuit of their greed. And I point not only to the CONERVATIVES on Wall St. but also to the CONSERVATIVES who DEREGULATED the market and thsus made the harmful lawlessness "legal".
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Don't be too happy though. The majority of our military are on the right.
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Nope. The military is against the Bushit criminal enterprise and its destruction of the military.
It is against the war crime of TORTURE.
Torture can't be made legal. Any effort to make it legal is also illegal.
And you support that war crime because YOU are an illiterate fool who substitutes name-calling for thought.
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The military is currently recalling troops that have recently gotten out.
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And you support all of that.
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What happens if Russia or China chooses to take advantage of our current weakness? THE DRAFT.
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And you've been a staunch, delusion asshole backing the Bushit criminal enterprise -- the consequence of which is that you now assert is "our current weakness".
Just imagine where we might be if you chose to get an education, instead of sucking at the tit of the politics of terrorism simply because the terrorists claim to be "patriots" and wear flag lapel-pin/trinkets made in Communist China.
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Liberals and Conservatives against the war and the draft. LOL. Can you say civil war.
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You are utterly clueless. And swallowing hate-radio and FOX is continuing to lower your IQ.
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Sure am glad I've clung to my GUNS and religion.
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What are the guns for, idjit? "Defending against" the Constitution and laws?
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I hope I'm wrong but Tax and Protectionist Dems will destroy this country.
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Tell us everything you know about "protectionism" -- I've a millionth of a second.
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Afterall you get what you pay for. And the dems have been bought and paid for far longer then the repubs. But I'm sure you all know that. LOL
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Abraham Lincoln isn't only spinning in his grave -- he's changing his voter registration to Democrat.
October 26, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every society has it's poisonous people...10 to 25%. The mentally/emotionally deviated. They've actually dwindled in nature as our country became more educated and social services increased. Palin/McCain cater to these sick individuals because they require little information and mostly just look for someone to hate or blame. They are easily recognized by their extreme anger...masked or otherwise. This is what McCain/Palin incite in them...anger
Actually these are the people who should be "listed" because they are disturbed beyond politics and the only way we have of really combating them is to make them unimportant and deal with the conditions that bring such people to bear. They threaten the world and intimidation is their happiness. These divisive angry intimidating people claim they are decent law abiding folk but it is just an act...the same act that McCain/Palin put out there every day. But they are destructive at almost every level. They are republicans. For the past 8yrs they have been cultivated for the McCain/Palin supporters we are so sickened by today. Unless you forgot the names of these supporters teachers to get them ready for McCain here's a list (from driftglass .com):
Was it Karl Rove?
Or Tom DeLay?
Or Newt Gingrich?
Was it Roger Ailes?
Glenn Beck?
Tucker Carlson?
Neil Cavuto?
Ann Coulter?
Pat Robertson?
Maybe Chris Wallace?
Lou Dobbs?
Dick Armey?
Robert Novak?
Steve Doocy?
Jesse Helms?
Bob Dornin?
Jerry Falwell?
John Gibson?
Sean Hannity?
Dick Cheney?
Brit Hume?
Rush Limbaugh?
Mary Matalin?
Tony Perkins?
Dick Morris?
Bill O'Reilly?
Phil Gramm?
Michael Savage?
John Hagee?
Monica Crowley?
William Donohue?
Frank Luntz?
Michael Medved?
G. Gordon Liddy?
Or maybe Laura Ingraham?..."
One day we turned around and all their mindless clones and disciples were standing in line for the McCain/Palin rally and we said.."Where the hell did all these sick people come from?"
October 26, 2008 2:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
This people are ignorant. Bush's family has close ties to Saudi Arabia. Are they not Arabs? Weren't the hijackers from Saudi Arabia? Wasn't the bin Laden family flown out of the US when all other planes were grounded?
It would seem that Bush is the one with terrorist ties but they are fine with him in the White House.
It seems McCain/Palin attract the worse of America....narrow-mindness, ignorants, bigots, etc.
Moderate Republicans are turned off by what they are witnessing at these rallies. I do hope that this election doesn't spark a revolt of some kind.
October 26, 2008 4:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Those bigots are either very low info or are so in denial that the truth could bite them in the ass and they would still be oblivious.
What you say about the Bush-Saudi connection is very true and very easy to research. We care enough to read and learn. The bigots, on the other hand, get their info from lies and misinformation drummed into them from the far right and Fox news.
October 26, 2008 4:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can only hope that the rational republicans will finally see who has hijacked their party and take steps to stop it. I can remember when republicans were moderate respectable people......senators and congressmen would disagree during the day, and then go out for drinks and tell old war stories.
That, of course, was a long time ago.
October 26, 2008 6:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
...i'll say this in fairness...perhaps, given the propensity for harsh rhetoric at some of McCain's rallies, it may not be the best idea, in the interest of personal safety, to engage supporters in the run up to Nov. 4th...if current polling indeed precludes an Obama victory then we are witnessing the worst stage of people coping with something distasteful to them...Denial is slowing giving way to Anger as polls continue to project a Republican purge of titanic proportions...Depression will likely come only in the wake of Nov. 4th and Acceptance might take considerably longer to realize after that...
As much as it pains me to say...these supporters have a right to their opinions, regardless of the manner in which they've arrived at their current views...some of the expressions here seem latent in nature and denote serious prejudices and misconceptions.
Attempting to offer a reasoned rebuttle to their belief systems will only further induce them to believe what their brains tell them are survival instincts...and they surely can't be reasoned with in a heated environment such as a campaign rally...
This is what happens when people assimilate a lie into their belief systems to buffer their ability to cope with information that stands in contradiction to what think to be true...this is why lies are so powerful, and why someone as intellectually feeble as Hitler was able to rise to power and perpetrate human atrocity on a genocidal scale...
As Roark said in "Sin City".."power does'nt come from a badge or a gun...power comes from lying...lying big and getting the whole d@#$ world to play along with you...once you got people believing what they know in their hearts ain't true, you got 'em by the balls."
Now imagine that power on a governmental level and it's not hard to disagree with someone as notorious as Hermann Wilhelm Göring, Hitler's designated successor and commander of the Luftwaffe during WW II, who opined:
"Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
October 26, 2008 4:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
An excellent analysis. Wasn't it Goring (can't figure out how to do the umlaut thingie) who said "a lie, repeated often enough, will eventually be believed"?
October 26, 2008 6:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
As much as it pains me to say...these supporters have a right to their opinions, regardless of the manner in which they've arrived at their current views...
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No, they do not. One does not have a "right to be wrong"; one has the right to make error -- and the RESPONSIBILITY to CORRECT it.
I grew up hearing that nonsense: that one has a right to be wrong [and stay wrong]. That one has a right to be ignorant [and reject learning].
The informed citizen is the cornerstone of democracy. If, to the contrary, one has a right" to be wrong, permanently, and ignorant, permanently, then we won't be a democracy; we will be a balkinized grouping of violently stupid and stupidly violent facts who believe only in rights -- lawlessness -- with no limits, no constraints.
No one, in short, has a "right" to be unreasoning as a matter of "lifestyle" -- it goes against everything even the unreasoning demand.
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some of the expressions here seem latent in nature and denote serious prejudices and misconceptions.
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Yes. And such lead to violence in word that becomes violence in behavior. People get hurt. And NONE of that can be premised upon or defended as being "right". We all have a responsibility to recognize that fact, and to limit ourselves to within the rules of reason and civility -- the latter being the root of the word "civilization".
How did we get here -- a situation in which the incivil are incivil in the name of and in defense of civility and "civilization"?
October 26, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess the point would be this: I work with some Arabs and I like them. I have seen some Amerikans I do not like too much.
Mean people suck as they say.
You have no choice about being an arab, black, oriental, russian or german or american or ameriKan. But you do have a choice about being mean.
October 26, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
excellant post kramskoi ... very well put!!! Keep believing people, things will get better ...this is just fear rearing its ugly head.
October 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it were fear, it would cower. It is NOT fear -- which would be an excuse. It is RACIST HATRED based upon UNFOUNDED IGNORANCE.
October 26, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had a conversation with someone the other day, pretty conservative guy, whom I respect and who respects me. We enjoy arguing political issues, and I, for one, learn a bit about his point of view each time. He has overcome a lot in his life. He remarked that could accept certain things about an Obama Presidency, but he drew the line when it came to abortion and would "be one of those guys that would shoot a doctor who performs abortions". I paraphrased his comment to be saying: "I will kill you because you kill people". Is suicide the rational endpoint of such philosophy? He ultimately admitted he was speaking hyperbolically.
What I like more and more about Obama is the commitment to dialogue. This is the real challenge we face and the only solution. Imposing your view on others doesn't work, nor does brainwashing the populace through media control and propaganda. Fight via the ballot box, then prepare to talk. Hopefully he doesn't get paralyzed considering too many irreconcilable points of view. 2/3 of marital arguments are irreconcilable according to studies of couples. Are political arguments so different? It is my hope that a dialogue is the only way forward, but my concern is that the arguments may be irreconcilable.
October 26, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink