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Health Care for All - It works great here in Canada
Something Americans needs to know...
...You desperately need a Canadian-style health care system.
"To summarize the solution: America must replace it's military-industrial complex with a medical-industrial complex."
The USA has almost 50 million people with no health care plan. Millions more have "plans" that will put them into bankruptcy when they have a major illness or injury. When compared to all other Western democracies America's system is a dismal failure and a painful embarrassment.
Highlights of Canadian Health Care:
1. Health care is mandatory and very affordable. The most expensive rate is $108 for a family of three or more.
2. Every person has equal access and full access to health care, regardless of ability to pay or pre-existing conditions.
3. Everybody has the exact same all-inclusive plan.
4. You can see any doctor, any hospital, any time, and leave your money at home.
5. Medical bills such as hospital bills and doctor bills are unheard of in Canada..
6. Free surgerys and hospitalization.
7. Free doctor visits, including specialist appointments.
8. All "tests" ordered by a doctor are free, including x-rays, Cat scans, lab tests, ultrasound, cardiac stress tests, etc, etc.
9. No deductibles or co-pays are allowed.
10. All healthcare workers and doctors are well paid, and they enjoy the many benefits of being labor union members.
11. Canada has a simple single-payer system. All bills are sent to the government, and not to patients.
12. Canada's system encourages people to open businesses and become entrepreneurs, because they don't have to worry about having employer-based health policies.
What price will America have to pay for a Canadian-style healthcare system?
The truth is that America does not really have to pay anything. It is just a simple matter of changing federal budget priorities. To summarize the solution: America must replace it's military-industrial complex with a medical-industrial complex.
In my home province of British Columbia, Canada, almost 50% of the budget goes to health and social services. We have a huge social safety net in addition to our great healthcare system. What few military bases we have are essentially Coast Guard like search and rescue stations.
Overall, Canada spends only about 5% of it's budget on defense. Compare that to America where the military and the Veterans Administration eat up about 50% of the budget. America must stop it's endless wars, and start taking care of it's own citizens.
Canada's system is good for the economy and tax rates
If you think that a generous health care system will hurt the economy - think again. Canada has the most stable economy of the G-20 nations. Putting people ahead of imperialism has been a win-win formula for success in Canada.
Many people mistakenly believe that Canada has exceptionally high taxes. Canadian tax rates are comparable to, or lower than American taxes. And there is no question that us Canadians get more bang for our buck thanks to the great health care and social programs.
Note: The author has worked as a healthcare provider (Diagnostic Imaging) for over 30 years, including several years working in the USA.
...You desperately need a Canadian-style health care system.
"To summarize the solution: America must replace it's military-industrial complex with a medical-industrial complex."
The USA has almost 50 million people with no health care plan. Millions more have "plans" that will put them into bankruptcy when they have a major illness or injury. When compared to all other Western democracies America's system is a dismal failure and a painful embarrassment.
Highlights of Canadian Health Care:
1. Health care is mandatory and very affordable. The most expensive rate is $108 for a family of three or more.
2. Every person has equal access and full access to health care, regardless of ability to pay or pre-existing conditions.
3. Everybody has the exact same all-inclusive plan.
4. You can see any doctor, any hospital, any time, and leave your money at home.
5. Medical bills such as hospital bills and doctor bills are unheard of in Canada..
6. Free surgerys and hospitalization.
7. Free doctor visits, including specialist appointments.
8. All "tests" ordered by a doctor are free, including x-rays, Cat scans, lab tests, ultrasound, cardiac stress tests, etc, etc.
9. No deductibles or co-pays are allowed.
10. All healthcare workers and doctors are well paid, and they enjoy the many benefits of being labor union members.
11. Canada has a simple single-payer system. All bills are sent to the government, and not to patients.
12. Canada's system encourages people to open businesses and become entrepreneurs, because they don't have to worry about having employer-based health policies.
What price will America have to pay for a Canadian-style healthcare system?
The truth is that America does not really have to pay anything. It is just a simple matter of changing federal budget priorities. To summarize the solution: America must replace it's military-industrial complex with a medical-industrial complex.
In my home province of British Columbia, Canada, almost 50% of the budget goes to health and social services. We have a huge social safety net in addition to our great healthcare system. What few military bases we have are essentially Coast Guard like search and rescue stations.
Overall, Canada spends only about 5% of it's budget on defense. Compare that to America where the military and the Veterans Administration eat up about 50% of the budget. America must stop it's endless wars, and start taking care of it's own citizens.
Canada's system is good for the economy and tax rates
If you think that a generous health care system will hurt the economy - think again. Canada has the most stable economy of the G-20 nations. Putting people ahead of imperialism has been a win-win formula for success in Canada.
Many people mistakenly believe that Canada has exceptionally high taxes. Canadian tax rates are comparable to, or lower than American taxes. And there is no question that us Canadians get more bang for our buck thanks to the great health care and social programs.
Note: The author has worked as a healthcare provider (Diagnostic Imaging) for over 30 years, including several years working in the USA.
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Great blog. There is a lot we could do with the military budget beyond health care.
I think getting a Canadian style health care system (not much different from many other advanced nations) is more a matter of will than resources. We are already spending the money we would need for a national plan as individuals beholden to huge corporations. We spend more on health care than just about everybody with vastly inferior results.
I suspect we will fix this problem, if not this year then in 2011 when a ton of incumbents lose their jobs for not supporting a national, single-payer or heavily-regulated, privately-run non-profit health insurance system. I don't care which it is, as long as the outcomes are as positive and as economically advantageous as a government-run plan would be if properly designed.
Unfortunately, the latter is what trips us up in the states so often. If we are using Medicare or Medicaid as a model for anything, we have already lost.
June 26, 2009 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great perspective that that has been drowned out of the reform debate (if you can call what's taken place as a debate since many views have been silenced.)
June 26, 2009 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
DG,
Perfect post. I have for a year now told anyone that would listen to drop the aea code from their home phone number replace it with a Canadian area code. Then call the "new" number and ask whoever answers the phone what they think of their health care system.
99.9% of those that try this change their mind if they were against Single Payor to begin with.
Somewhere on this site I posted a blog that explained this little experiment and listed all the Canadian area codes. I really hope at least a few tried it.
THANKS FOR THIS POST! and Rec'd
June 26, 2009 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think a majority of americans understand this and agree with you... but it seems highly unrealistic that the profiteers of the healthcare system are simply going to let go of their source of wealth. I believe it is going to take extraordinary action on the part of the people of or country to get the healthcare system that we want and deserve. We need more civilian leadership on this front... to help people organize and take action.
June 26, 2009 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which is why the profiteers are afraid of even letting us have the option of choosing a public program. It will drive them out of business, more to the betterment of health care as a whole.
June 26, 2009 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. But they will never get out as long as our politicians pay for their re-election campaigns with funds from those same for profit mobsters..oops... I mean health care lobby.
Our representatives (and I use that term loosely) will never truly represent us if the only ones who get elected are the ones who have the most blood money (literally) for TV ads.
Campaign finance reform and Health Care reform go hand and hand. It will be near impossible to get one without the other.
June 27, 2009 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is hard to imagine anyone could disagree with this post.
June 26, 2009 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Doctor, are you implying that instead of bombing the living hell out of innocent people and planning to bomb the hell out of everyone everywhere and spending all kinds of money annually on maintaining an imperial army, air force, and navy that we should put the health and well being of the average American first? Why that would be, that would be, well...
sensible
practical
true to our heritage as a republic
beneficial to the whole world
provide for a healthy, prosperous and stable America
And our President and our ruling classes won't even discuss such a system. How sad and foolish and corrupt our leaders have become and how stupid and gullible our people. Oy!
June 26, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
DITTO
June 26, 2009 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
But then how would we kill people who aren't like us or have something our corporations want?
June 26, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
What total stupidity! First off, it is a complete lie to claim the military budget is 50% of fed expenses. The fed budget is over 3.2 trillion, the mil budget is about 450 billion. It would have to QUADRUPLE to reach the level this idiot claims. Second, yeah health care is great in Canada, unless you need something like angioplasty, where the wait takes months versus hours in the US. OR any other procedure for that matter, which is why many Canadians come here for treatment. Not to mention the limit on what procedures are allowed. And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I have a house in Canada, go there al the time, and talk to a lot of unhappy Canadians about their system. Not to mention how it would fail dramatically here with our huge illegal alien population. Please, someone explain how the government can offer the same top level of care, to everyone, and everyone pays less. BULL! Even this dolt admits it is consuming 50% of BC's budget, and they don't have the large welfare population we do. YOU CAN"T GET SOMETHING FOR FREE. MAKING THE GOVERNMENT PAY DOES NOT MEAN IT'S FREE. There is a reason Canadians pay 55% tax rates, plus GST, PST, and other taxes. And a reason why so many Canadian professionals are moving south.
June 26, 2009 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are lying and everyone here knows it. Just another neocon spewing ignorance.
June 26, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've posted the links before, I'm tired of doing your research for you. Google it. Also Google wait times for procedures, last time I posted several articles bragging how the wait times in Canada for angioplasty were only a few months. My brother had his in 24 hours here. He would have died in Canada. Why don't you idiots do some research of your own instead of lapping up the garbage left wing liars post here.
June 26, 2009 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Down boy, down!
Repeat after me, oh economic genius - better health outcomes at 60% of the cost. Amazing eh? Actually, not at all amazing, you just have to not be completely blinded by ideology.
Instead, what you repeatedly do, Bulldog, is dredge up "facts" like these appalling, ancient scare stories from some newspaper - like your Newfoundland one, below. Which is 5 years old, and from a province of 500,000 people - and offers NO follow-up on what's happened since. Just a boogey-man story.
Or quote crap from the Fraser Institute or equally foaming at the mouth right-wing batch of freaks on wait times. Why didn't you quote these guys instead - The Wait Time Alliance? This very week, they put out a big fat report card on Waiting Times in Canada, and they're an Alliance of ALL THE DOCTOR'S GROUPS. You see, waiting times were a very big issue here, so the Governments put billions into reducing them. And now they publish the reductions in wait-times online, public access and all.
Anyway, the DOCTORS Alliance just handed out the latest ratings, and gave Ontario, Quebec, BC and Manitoba "A's" across the board - all the big 5 categories they were highlighting. That's 26 of 33 million people covered right there. And even the other littler provinces got A's on the bigger issues like coronary bypass and radiation oncology (some still not up to snuff on hip and knee surgery.)
And so the docs have now turned their focus to improving waiting times for various services and treatments in psychiatry, plastic surgery, obstetrics, etc.
As for Canadians going to the US for surgery, some do - they're allowed. They're usually rich, they want to be treated now and feel they have to have big name treatment at the top places and such. Fine. But there are other interesting two-way aspects of this trade - such as the fact that Canada trains a lot of docs and nurses, on the public dime, who then go for the bigger bucks in the US. Which makes it harder to service our rural populations, and one might even argue makes waiting times longer, eh? Lots of other two-way aspects such as the pharma trade... or Canucks who live in the US and spend into the economy there, but who then fly home for health care - a very common occurrence for retirees. So who is subsidizing who?
As for Bulldog's clatter about how you can't get something for free? Sure you can. Just go ask the private insurance companies, they've been getting billions for doing sweet fanny adams.
June 26, 2009 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
You brought up another advantage in speaking of wait times and how they were dealt with. If the system is public, the public can demand more money be spent when necessary. There is accountability. Try that with a private system.
June 26, 2009 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes they spend less but they don't always get better outcomes. I'd like to think that we can cut costs out of our current system without having to go to a government controlled system. By eliminating businesses as the middlemen and just having families shop directly with private insurers should help increase competition and drive down costs. We also need to do something about the malpractice situation in the US which has gone out of control.
Plus Canada has a private insurance market that is growing.
June 26, 2009 11:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter who you quote, the role of private healthcare in Canada is growing.
June 26, 2009 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bill says... "It doesn't matter who you quote, the role of private healthcare in Canada is growing." Oh, ok then... guess I won't respond to that one. ;-)
Anyhoo. 1/3 of all doctors send at least ONE patient to the US each year. But check the next footnote Bill. Total spending on health services from the US = $1 billion. Out of ~$150 billion spent annually. So not a big deal. Besides, a doctor has a fair number of patients, and 90% of Canucks live within 100 miles of the US, so some people go across the border. Outrageous? Why wouldn't we? We've got rural areas which are closer to major US cities, we've got perfectly good Canadian cities that twin US cities, and so on.
Bill. If the U.S. had a private health system that delivered the outcomes Canada's does, for 10% of GDP, while the rest of the world had public systems that took 17% of GDP and DIDN'T produce amazingly better outcomes, you would go ape-shit beating the drum for its superiority. Admit it. It would be all about fat and waste and government bureaucrats and so on.
Which is what makes debating you on this seem bizarre. And... as I've said before... it feels disingenuous, coming from you. I'm not sure how someone can put their heart fully into defending the existing US health system, or attacking public health systems elsewhere. And believe it or not, I'm not a 100% public sector fan, at all. I like vouchers and charter schools and home schooling etc. etc. I'm not driving this one for ideological reasons. It just works pretty well, and at reasonable cost. That's all.
June 27, 2009 3:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am not "defending" the current system. I am saying that Canada isn't as great as people are making it out to be. I'd rather do other fixes to the current system (like take businesses out of the equation as middleman and lose the tax benefit of healthcare expenses) to try to lower costs and improve competition. I'd rather try to fix what we have without having to turn it into the Canadian system.
June 27, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think he's lying. Although I respect Dr. Goldstein's opinions, I have also read other articles from Canadian doctors which say that Canada's healthcare system isn't as good as the US. So there's opinions on both sides.
June 26, 2009 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not necessarily true that US has better outcomes. From the NYT a couple of weeks ago:
Got any reputable links to Canadian doctors that say US is better?
June 26, 2009 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here you go.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html
June 26, 2009 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
And according to the Cato institute, US hospitals and clinics treat thousands of foreign patients. The Mayo Clinic treats more than 7,000 foreigners per year; Cleveland Clinic treats 5,000; Johns Hopkins treats 6,000; and 1 out of every 3 Canadian physicians sends a patient to the US for treatment
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf
June 27, 2009 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
In the Cato paper the source of information for the Mayo Clinic and other hospitals, and for the 1 in 3 Canadian doctors sending their patients to the US is from 1993. Information from 16 years ago is no longer valid, in my opinion. (FN 30).
The current number for the Mayo Clinic is 5000 international patients per year. (pdf p.22).
June 27, 2009 8:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
5000 is still a big number, don't you think?
June 27, 2009 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, In this case 5000 is less than 1% of the clinic's total patients. Total patients = 526,000.
I think you're seeing hordes of patients flocking to the US that are only in your mind. Canadians go back home to Canada if they possibly can. Health care in Europe matches that of the US and is affordable and accessible. So we might be getting the wealthy few from LCD's, but those numbers are fairly negligible, I think.
June 28, 2009 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why is the % of the clinic's patients relevant?
Why would foreigners come to the US for treatment if their local healthcare was so great?
June 28, 2009 6:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I said, there probably are more people coming from lesser developed countries than from those with their own systems. Of course, they are the wealthy few but their numbers can add up.
Why is the % of the clinic's patients relevant?
Can you seriously call 1% a horde? It's probably not even statistically significant, which pretty much kills the whole argument that I think you are trying to make.
June 28, 2009 7:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
A never said it was a horde. But thousands of people each year makes me think that they can get better care in the US than in their home countries.
June 28, 2009 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bill, there are 6.7 billion people in the world and only 1.2 billion of them live in more developed regions, leaving 5.5 billion in less developed regions. Relative to the total population though, "thousands" is an insignificant number.
June 29, 2009 8:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why would they come to the US if their local country's healthcare is superior?
June 29, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bill, are you deliberately being obtuse? Nobody said health care in another country is superior. Access to health care in all but 3 OECD countries is superior and affordable. The 3 OECD countries that don't have some type of universal health care are the US, Mexico and Turkey. In the meantime, the rest of the globe has iffy health care in some countries. What point are you trying to make?
June 29, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not trying to be deliberately obtuse. The subject of this post is to say how great Canada's healthcare system is. (And many people on here would say that ANY first-world country has better healthcare than the US). My point is that lots of people come to the US for healthcare treatment. My guess is that some of these people are from Canada, others from Europe and also some from Asia. People wouldn't come here for treatment if they could get the same quality of treatment at a lower cost under their nationalized health plans in their home country. But they do come here either because their doctor sends them or because they opt to on their own. But who would do that unless the care here is better? Why wouldn't you have it done locally? Because our doctors are better.
Your response may be - yes we have better care but our costs are spiraling out of control. And my response to that would be that maybe we can cut down our costs without significantly impacting the quality of the care. And we might be able to cut our costs without having the government get involved.
June 29, 2009 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't comment on the author's relative, but there are NO wait times in Canada for emergencies.
Indeed, Canada's provincial governments themselves rely on American medicine. Between 2006 and 2008, Ontario sent more than 160 patients to New York and Michigan for emergency neurosurgery -- described by the Globe and Mail newspaper as "broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain."
This is disingenuous to say the least. Many rural sections have agreements with the US, especially when the trip to the US is closer for the patient than going to one in their own province.
Only half of ER patients are treated in a timely manner by national and international standards, according to a government study. The physician shortage is so severe that some towns hold lotteries, with the winners gaining access to the local doc.
Not true. Read the new report from the Wait Time Alliance. Found here.
I'm not going to look up every statistic and claim made in the article, but I think the cancer statistics are wrong, also, at least for the OECD countries.
Last year I had to wait over 3 months for a mammogram. I can't see where that's any worse than wait times in Canada.
June 27, 2009 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you a a link to some evidence that Canadians come here for treatment? I keep hearing that, but nobody ever backs it up. Some numbers would be appreciated.
June 26, 2009 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The "Clever" Pile of Bullshit has no evidence. It is nothing short of a chronic nuisance, and smells rather bad of late.
June 26, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
A typical Canadian seeking surgical or other therapeutic treatment had to wait 18.3 weeks in 2007, an all-time high, according to new research published Monday by independent research organization the Fraser Institute.
from
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/10/15/waittimes-fraser.html
google 'canada wait times angioplasty' you'll get lots of hits.
June 26, 2009 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link. I'm sure you're right that I could get plenty of hits if I googled "canada wait times angioplasty." Only that's not the question I asked. I asked for emperical evidence that Candians are coming en masse to the United States for treatment. Do you have any links with those numbers?
June 26, 2009 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Orlando, the last time I went to the doctors I had to wait an extra hour because of all these Canadians who got there ahead of me. It was just awful! Some of them could only speak Quebecian and they had to get translators and everything!
June 27, 2009 8:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then why don't Canadians die earlier than Americans? If their health care is inferior, they should be croaking much sooner than Americans, especially since they don't spend nearly as much money on it.
Where are the dead Canadians?
June 26, 2009 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where are the dead Canadians?
My guess would be Parliament.
June 26, 2009 11:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Line of the Year.
June 27, 2009 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
And all the Canadians dying from bad drugs, which is why our country tells us we shouldn't send our prescriptions there to get the exact same medications for less $$$$.
June 27, 2009 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why are you posting 2007 numbers when current statistics are available? That makes no sense.
June 27, 2009 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's another nice one for you:
In Newfoundland, the wait for an MRI has typically been a year. Tilly says
it should be three months at the most. The wait for a mammogram averages
14 months. In other provinces, it's weeks.
From:
http://www.mombu.com/medicine/heart/t-canada-waiting-for-access-cardiac-heart-angiogram-angioplasty-urology-2249128.html
SO, how good does that sound? 14 months for a mammogram?
A year fro an MRI?
Yeah, sign me up.
June 26, 2009 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering healthcare if about to become unaffordable for most americans... I'd say some wait times look better than no care at all.
I am certain there is a way to improve on the Canadian system or other systems but we don't have to reinvent the wheel and we absolutely cannot continue on the course we're on...
June 26, 2009 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
ummm, the article is 5 years old - dated Sept. 2004.
June 27, 2009 8:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's an article from another doctor, who grew up in Canada. He talks about Canadians going to the US for care.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html
June 26, 2009 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting article. But 160 neurosurgery patients in two years isn't all that compelling as a number. Also, I'm immediately suspicious because the articles is written by a doctor and it's in the WSJ. However, even if I take it at face value, the author wonders why the United States is "rushing toward government controlled health care" while Canada and Great Britain are seeing a rise in private practice alongside the government sponsored plan. But the United States isn't "rushing" toward government controlled health care. The United States is considersider a health care reform package that includes an option for a public insurance plan. The doctors are still private. People would still pay premiums and see private doctors. But the administrators would be government employees instead of for-profit insurance industry employees. The article is comparing apples to oranges, and it's disingenious.
June 27, 2009 7:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
We really don't know where the US system evolves to. But there's certainly lots of people in Congress (and on here) that want to see a Canadian style system.
June 27, 2009 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Canadians don't pay higher taxes than Americans. When you count all the benefits on both sides, Americans actually get to keep a tiny bit less of their gross pay than Canadians do, though the difference is statistically insignificant.
In other words, you're a fool.
And be sure to keep your Fraser Institute publications safe and sound. They make hilarious reading after a few years. I have quite a collection, and without exception, they have been spectacularly wrong in predicting the future, and borderline treasonable in their lust to stir up trouble between the general population and First Nations peoples, and Quebec and the rest of Canada. The Fraser Institute is where we put the nuts who would be secessionists if they were in the United States.
June 26, 2009 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dr. Goldstein - could you give us your view on the role of private insurance market in Canada? My understanding is that Canada's supreme court in 2005 ruled to repeal Quebec laws that established a government monopoly. I've read that private-sector health care in Canada is growing.
Could you also comment on Canada's reliance on the US healthcare system and how people from Canada are sent to the US for treatment?
Thanks very much. With your background I think your perspective would be very interesting.
June 26, 2009 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to the Cato institute - one out of every three Canadian physicians sends a patient to the US for treatment each year.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf
June 27, 2009 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh? ... Well . . .
Although Tanner's Cato report was released in 2008 the cited reference Tanner used in the report is 16 years old (1993). And the citation does not mention anything about how many physicians send patients to the US.
Can you possibly cite more recent researched statistics before I can make a decision whether or not your statement quoting Tanner's is valid?
From the Cato Report:
The cited material Tanner uses found on pg. 38
And on a closing note: According to quite a few of those at the Cato Institute they believe John Galt was an actual living breathing human being.
Bill ... Do you personally know John Galt?
~OGD~
June 27, 2009 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course I do. I am John Galt
June 27, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
No doubt . . .
You are a figment of your imagination and a legend in your own mind.
Too bad that mind has only two compartments, null and void.
Oh and ... the CATO reference you used is outdated and unsupported by facts.
~OGD~
June 28, 2009 1:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the complements!!
It may be outdated but how is it "unsupported by facts"??
Please share with us a more recent survey/set of data which shows that things have improved. Thanks!
June 28, 2009 6:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Having worked in both systems - US and Canada - I stand firmly behind my opinions and observations.
Re: Patients being sent to American hospitals for treatment. It does happen but it is rare - not 1/3
of patients or anything close.
Sometimes the specialists and surgeons are backed up, or staffing shortages. They do send patients south of our border when it is best for the patient. Complicated pregnancies requiring a certain hospital to do the delivery, diseases where the best expert is in the USA, etc. However - when this happens - it is all at the Canadian Governments expense. Travel(Ambulance or Air Ambulance) and treatment are all paid for 100% by the Govt, not the patient. How many Americans get to travel to Canada when the top specialist is in our country, and have it paid for by the American Government? Sending patients to the USA for teatment, when appropriate, is a good thing not a bad thing.
RE: The "waiting lists" issue.
1. Nobody ever goes on a waiting list for emergency care. Heart surgeries, Cancer treatments, etc all take place immediately.
2. Yes we have waiting lists for some non-emergency procedures such as knee replacements, MRI scans, etc but wait times are not ridiculous and they are well prioritized. The big difference between Canada and the USA is Canadians will always get the procedure. ALWAYS. So what if they have to wait. It's not a perfect world.
3. In America I saw people die of Cancer with no treatment, because they were poor. I also knew several people who walked around on painful knees and hips because they could not afford the arthroscopy or joint replacement. I am certain they would have been delighted to get on a waiting list for a free joint replacement.
4. It makes me sick when I hear Americans complain about our system that takes care of every Canadian - from birth to death - regardless of ability to pay.
Beat Wishes to All
June 27, 2009 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you so much for posting and responding. All the information is appreciated.
By the way, that one-third referral rate was from a 1993 article. The authors had to go back 16 years to be able to make that point.
June 27, 2009 9:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
RE: ...the role of private insurance market in Canada?
Some people are rich enough that they can afford to pay $1,000 for a CAT Scan instead of waiting a month. It's called "jumping the queue" and it is allowed. The same goes for knee replacements where waits can be 8-10 months. I would probably wait and use a cane/knee brace instead of paying $15,000 for a new knee. But those who voluntarily choose to pay for an expedited procedure are free to do so.
Private clinics do take pressure off the public system.
June 27, 2009 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dr Goldstein, thanks for posting this, and also for coming back to answer the questions raised by those who can't see the forest for the trees. Your point is very well taken that a waiting period for a knee replacement is a better alternative than millions of people not being able to have a knee replacement at all.
Waiting periods are issues to be solved within a comprehensive system of health delivery. Getting health care for all requires first PROVIDING a comprehensive system of health care delivery. The former can be done within what already exists in Canada. The latter is made more difficult by dense people who bring up false arguments, and the insurance vultures and the bought-and-paid-for Congress that desperately wants to do their bidding.
June 27, 2009 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good points, Jan. I'd also like to note that Canada isn't the only country with universal health care. All of the OECD countries, with the exceptions of the US, Turkey and Mexico have some type of universal health care.
In the other countries, access to health care is much better than in the US and that includes many US patients with health insurance. I don't care how good people here think the US system is because if only a few have access, it's still a failure for most.
June 27, 2009 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I understand that universal health care is guaranteed in the Iraqi Constitution. I wonder who is paying for that?
June 27, 2009 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
A quick Google turned up an article from March 2004 talking about Democratic criticisms of the $950 million the Bushies planned to spend on Iraqi universal health care start-up. Knowing how that goes, I would at least triple, if not more, that amount.
I don't know if it ever happened, but it starts to answer your question, which had a hint of snark in it. :-)
June 27, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can't see the forest, eh? Thanks for the kind words. Once again you must insult someone. I was trying to ask some sincere questions but you must always find a way to insult people that you disagree with.
June 27, 2009 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny . . .
If a person isn't either dense, who bring up false arguments; an insurance vulture or a bought-and-paid-for Congressperson there's no reason to feel insulted.
By the way ... When are you going to find current statistics on the percentage of Canadian doctors that send patients to the US for procedures? That CATO bunk you posted up-thread is just that, bunk.
Hmmm . . .
~OGD~
June 28, 2009 1:44 AM | Reply | Permalink