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I'm OK, You're Doomed


Transactional Analysis (TA) was something of a fad in the 1960s. I read my mom's copy of I'm OK You're OK, by Thomas Harris, not realizing that it drew principles from an earlier book on TA: The Games People Play by his colleague Eric Berne. In The Games People Play, Berne theorized that each of us may switch between three ego-states: the Parent, the Adult and the Child (PAC) - revisions of Freud's Superego, Ego and Id that emphasize interactions with others.

If you think about it, some TPM posters generally post in a superior Parent voice, while others are emotionally or playfully Child-like, and others are rational and Adult. Most of us switch voices depending on the topic and correspondent. I'm OK You're OK featured a few examples of flawed interaction, in which one person attempts an adult-to-adult interaction, but the other responds as parent or child, thus confounding effective communication.

One example went something like this:

Adult Husband: Where are my socks?

Parent Wife: Where you left them!
Adult Wife: In the dryer.
Child Wife: (big eyes) Socks?

A TPM example might be:

Adult Poster: Obama just released another video.

Parent Commenter: He thinks he's Roosevelt.
Adult Commenter: These videos are a great way to communicate ideas.
Child Commenter: Everything he does is perfect.

The point that an Adult would have trouble obtaining usable information from someone stuck in Parent or Child mode made sense to me, but the more I read of I'm OK, You're OK, the more forced his examples seemed. Apparently a lot of practitioners dismissed it as pop psychology, while even many TA adherents thought I'm OK You're OK oversimplified Berne's ideas.

Applying PAC to TPM posts would be amusing, but I had the thought of trying to classify media and blogger's reactions to new realities. I propose three ego states describing how we react to stress and crises. In place of PAC, we'll have DRC:

* Doomer ("exteroapocalyptic"): a state in which people accept and regurgitate the predictions of prominent doomsayers with little or no critical examination.

* Realist ("neopragmatic"): a state in which people behave, feel, and think in response to what is going on in the "here-and-now," using all of their resources as an adult human being with many years of life experience to guide them. While a person is in the Adult ego state, he/she is directed towards an objective appraisal of reality.

* Cornucopian ("archaeoromantic"): a state in which people revert to behaving, feeling and thinking similarly to how they did when oil and gasoline was cheap, home prices were always rising and the stock market was a safe investment. For example, a person may respond to higher gas and food prices by assuming that new technologies will enable a virtually identical lifestyle. Again, with little or no critical examination.

So under DRC, the questioning might go like this:

Adult Wife: Honey, would you take out the trash?

Doomer Husband: OK, cover me.
Realist Husband: Couldn't we recycle most of that?
Cornucopian Husband: We can't afford trash pickups but there's a dumpster at the mall.

Adult Husband: What's for dinner?

Doomer Wife: Fido
Realist Wife: A nice salad from our garden.
Cornucopian Wife: If only those pizza guys drove EVs, we could afford to order one.

Adult Poster: Food and energy costs are rising.

Doomer Commenter: Nostradamus and Roubini say we're doomed.
Adult commenter: We have to start addressing these problems.
Cornucopian Commenter: T Boone Pickens will solve it for us.

It's too easy to fall into parody, but I've been following energy depletion for several years now, and find that some people who have stated the problem well, are stuck at that point. I have gravitated towards people, like Sharon Astyk, and groups, like the Passiv Haus folk, that are proposing actions and solutions.

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You deserve a Rec Donal, just for attempting something this complicated! I'll just stick to your last point, where I find there are crosses amongst different dimensions within energy & environment --- Future, Past & Present orientations; Optimistic, Realistic & Pessimistic stances; Rational, Paternalistic & Childlike styles; etc.

That said, I'm with you on the shift from Problems to Solutions. The Problems are interesting, and the scientific & social understandings evolving, but truly... they bore me these days.

Amongst the Solution brigade, there's also diversity - those with the Single Great Solution; those who insist on charting yet another vague, high-level, set of principles of "Sustainability"; those who feel it'll take 50% years of Incremental improvements; and so on.

I tend to feel it's a mix... that it'll take 20-30 years if we set our minds to it... that this may (or may not) be rapid enough... that it won't break the economy's back... but also that we're in need of better images, stories, narratives and cultural & psychological positioning. And that last part is the hardest. We need a positive story, but as we go, we have to erode or transform the mental barriers & cultural images & stories we hold.

Anyway, I'll stand back now, and let the dozens who feel deeply insulted by your classification of posters come in & take their shots. Good luck, and armor up dude!

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2 things...1st, I'm flat out jealous that you're doing all that trick stuff with the circles...I can't even figure out how to put a stupid picture in.

2nd, I doubt you're going to need any armor...It makes sense to me, and if I can understand it, everyone else should be able to, as well. Besides, we're mostly in very good moods these days, sose if it was a slam and I just didn't get it, you should live to rile someone up another day!

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Actually its Adler, a student of Freud. Freud never got along with students who did well, like Adler and Jung.

I am trying to reason this out.

Doomer, Realist and cornucopian.

The doomer might be Calvin, the guy holding the sign on the street that says the end is near.
No matter what we do, it aint gonna work.

Cornucopian is McCain during part of his campaign, mirroring Reagan. Everything will continue to grow and all will share in the end. Just keep government out of it.

Realist may refer to people like FDR. Everything was going to hell in a basket in 1932. By 1938 the world was blowing up. 1941 we are back in a world war. FDR would keep the smile but work on programs with his version of the best and the brightest.

I think Barack is a realist. They replayed Daschel again from June and he had a panel and forum on Health Insurance. He had and has some very good views on this.

Centered, now, options available. ok

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Most of my psych education involved Dr Robert Hartley (Bob Newhart). I already knew of Jung from reading some MBTI books, but I just looked up Adler (who insisted he was a colleague BTW).

I think most politicians are realists, but short-sighted, looking no farther than the next news cycle or election. I think (hope?) that Obama has a long term plan, and that people are ready to show some patience.

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Wonderful post in many ways, Donal! I rec'd it too.

The truth is that this theory is stolen from Freud (id, ego, superego). And the greater truth is that the best of us have access to and can operate in all 3 modes (even if this is a simplistic model). All modes are needed. And wisdom is knowing which one to use when and how.

Playing is important. (The child in us is not only nuts or greedy.) Reasoning is important, but never lose touch with your emotions (there are more neurons in the gut than in the brain!). And a conscience is a good thing to have - especially a nuanced sense of ethics and morality.

I think what you're getting at here is the danger of being stuck in a personality style. The importance of flexibility.

One of bush's greatest failings is his rigidity. He's proud of that, thinks it's heroic quality in himself. When really it hampers him terribly.

Balance and flexibility. We can all strive for that. And humility. But have fun in the process. And try, when you need to exercise that conscience, to do it with compassion.

Ok... go ahead and tag me with whatever term you want!

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A question for Donal and Thera and any other savants out there who would know:

Does TA (or the Freudian system) have a preference?

Obviously both systems would recognize people visit all those modes in the course of a week, if not a 24 hour cycle. But is there a preferred mode?

I would guess the Adult for TA, but what about the freudian system.

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Adult seems preferable when dealing with other adults, but Parent and Child have their place.

In one of the Star Trek fan books, the author compared the Superego, Ego and Id to Spock, Kirk and McCoy. Sometimes you need to be all three at once.

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Oh, yes, the ego. That's the short answer, but read on. The ego, in fact, is supposed to balance both the id and the superego. So simplistic answer: Ego (but not narcissism). I'm not sure the TA system actually explained the "adult" as balancing the other two. I think it imagined that the adult mode was like something new and better.

Actually now it's a much more nuanced sense of what happens. Today, we don't view the individual as simply acting "alone" - as simply "separate" from relationship. So we think of people as internalizing relationships in a schema fashion or as a kind of "script" which includes a sense of self, a sense of the other, and an emotional coding interlaced. We internalize many of these - based on our past, our childhood, parents, sibs, teachers, friends, important people in our lives. It's a much more dynamic model. The old tri-partite model was more static.

The TA model was attempting to model a person in a relationship. And there is a certain helpfulness in the model (which I too learned about from the book my parents had). But it's hard for any of us to remain in "adult" mode in the face of a 2-year old or a teenager. Some things pull any of us into self-defeating behaviors.

Therapy and models of personality dynamics or interactions continue to grow. Based on both research and clinical experience. So, we've marched on beyond either of these models. I think the Freudian model has greater longevity here, simply because it was the first. And you rarely see anyone referring to TA in a professional paper or presentation, while Freud continues to be cited - if only as a place to start from or rage against.

So the preferred mode, if you want to think of it that way, would be the "ego" balancing your needs, wishes, desires, fears and so on against the injunctions you grew up with, the mores of society, religious training, the expectations of others.

Freud's view, however, doesn't take into account spiritual development - something Jung tried to address (though I find his theories ultimately stultifying myself, intriguing but not capable of growing and changing as Freud's theories have been able to do).

That's why I like the newer model, which takes into account "relationships." As a kind of "one-off" interrelated inner schema (me/you=world/emotional substrate). If I had to posit what happens when someone experiences a "shock" of enlightenment, I'd say it changes that inner schema/script process to such a degree that the "one-off" inner experience is suddenly "realized" for what it is. Hard to say what I mean here. But something profound changes in the brain. And you "see" everything and everyone differently. So differently that it's even hard to put into words.

I'm pretty sure you sort of understand what I'm getting at here. Because for me, any good theory (for personality dynamics) has to be capable of taking into account the complete range of human experience - from psychosis to creative endeavors or spiritual endeavors to just plain old hanging out with the old tramp and old Lux. (and who am I? old hag maybe)

So then it's not like you're moving back and forth between these modes, but you're able to act freely in view of the circumstances as they arise, moment to moment. And if we look at the teaching tales of any tradition, that's exactly what we see!

When we were leaving Snowmass monastery on our second visit (about 2 weeks after 9/11 - not kidding!), I asked Theophan, "Do you have some words of wisdom for the journey?" He did a little jig!

Hope I've answered your question somehow.

No preference.

(To decide on a preference is to be in superego mode - when what's needed at any given moment is impossible to predict ahead of time, right?)

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I very much appreciate this reply and wish everyone could get exposure to it! THANK YOU.

When I look at Bush in the light of the PAC model I see a lot of parent and a lot of child, but almost no adult....

When I look at Cheney I see a lot of Parent and a lot of Adult but almost no Child.

When I look at Obama I see a lot of all three and very well-balanced, but most prominent the Adult.

When I look at Thera, I am confronted with a mystery! I like that Theophan response.....

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I love your descriptions of bush, cheney, and Obama. I concur. As for me.... it's a mystery to me too!

:)

♪ ♫ ♬ ✹ = Lux Umbra Dei

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It is interesting to see those roles here at TPM. As much as some would like to see what goes on here as a purely intellectual incubation of political and social ideas, there is a distinct social component, whereby we get to enjoy, (or not), the personalities of the players. Some play the same role pretty much all the time while most shift between them as the situation may, (or may not), call for. In social interactions there is definitely a use for all three, although your DRC system allows a bit less elasticity than is desirable IMO. Rec'd.

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That would be 'the' DRC system!

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I thought of this before and forgot about it. There is all this expertise. Just ask the right person. Thank you TheraP

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Donal, I love the title of this post! And I really love what you've tried to do. To look at the different roles people play on a blog. Even though we never quite got to where you were leading us, did we?

Due to roles we're playing...

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This is a truly revolutionary model, Donel! You deserve some kind of blog award. But I don't want to burden you on that bicycle!

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I really like the title too. Prior to reading the post, I thought it was going to be a parody of the wealthy vs. the working stiff.

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OK, let's classify pundits and posters---Tom Friedman is Cornucopian, David Seaton is a doomer.
I'm prone to C, but try for R.

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Tom Friedman is a DICK and to be one is to know one.
TF is for TF. David is not always a doomer.

We must try for R, like you say. But I do not think that having hope for the future makes you a C.

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No, realism does not preclude hope. I am arguing against blind optimism, not hope.

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Well said, Donal!

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Donal

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  • Website: www.donalfagan.com
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