A Few Bad Apples
But my purpose here isn't to get a real sense of the accuracy of these videos. I've searched around a bit and my general sense of all this is that there's some truth to the videos, but that there are also some things obscured. And it seems that the most important thing that's been obscured is that while this behavior doesn't seem limited to any particular Acorn office or city, there do appear to have been a number of spots that got left on the cutting room floor because they showed these people the door.
And that's really what I'm interested in. Let's allow that what we see in these videos is accurate and that these Acorn employees did exactly what they appear to have done. Does that amount to an indictment of Acorn on the whole?
If it does, it would appear to violate the conventional wisdom of "a few bad apples" that I thought we all knew and loved so well. After all, that's what I heard back in the days of companies like Enron, WorldCom and Tyco being embroiled in major accounting scandals. This wasn't some kind of systemic disease, we were told, but was rather the work of a few bad apples.
I heard the same thing when the photos of abuses at Abu Ghraib surfaced. We were told that it was wrong to think that this was the manifestation of a system designed to produce these results (HA!), but rather the work of a few bad apples, acting alone.
So, in light of the old "bad apples" chestnut, how shall we view the actions of these Acorn employees? Do we employ the bad apples rule in this case or do we extrapolate from what is seen in these videos a wholly corrupt organization?
PS - Beyond playing the game that I'm engaged in here of attempting to consistently apply the rhetoric of the right is the fact that Acorn has received a whopping $54 million in federal funding since 1994. That's about $3.5 million per year. To put that in perspective, MIT receives about four times that per day in research funding for defense. Some ten billion dollars just up and vanished in Iraq. Even if we assume that every last dollar given to Acorn was misused, is it wrong for me to expect to see a level of outrage commensurate with the level of misappropriated tax dollars?
UPDATE: Josh just linked this to the front page. Highlighted for "bad apples" content.
***
Cross-posted @ dagblog.com
I've watched several interviews with Ms. Lewis, the current CEO (since last year) of ACORN. I found her to be credible and believe her assertions about the editing and other ACORN offices visited and employees appropriately sent them packing.
The videos need to be shown without edits and all need to wait for all facts, not hyperbole.
That said, there are 700 ACORN employees - if indeed a few were obviously in the wrong and have been dismissed for cause, there may or may not be more to the story. (There are rumblings - not attributed to Lewis - that some of these employees were in fact plants put in place for this reason, but so far no factual basis proferred for this assertion.)
The prudent thing to do is wait for all the facts to be published responsibly before any jump the shark. Now, that's a concept!
Until then, I nor anyone is able to make any rational judgement pro or con for ACORN.
Thanks for post. Rec'd.
September 17, 2009 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/fox-gets-punkd-acorn-volunteer-knew
There's also this to consider.
September 17, 2009 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, apparently it has been:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/16/video-part-2-of-acorns-san-bernardino-tape/
September 17, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
see my comment below
September 17, 2009 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo,
I read that link, what is your point? What is it in that story you feel is important?
September 18, 2009 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, I'm not making a claim one way or another on the accuracy of these videos. To me, what's important is there is a clear double-standard at work here. If you are responsible for the downfall of an entire corporation (or financial system), you're a "bad apple", but if a handful of employees is elsewhere supposed to be evidence of a wholly corrupt organization.
So, my question is this: Why can't we just "bad apples" this situation and move on? Isn't that what we're supposed to do in situations like this?
September 17, 2009 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure I understand where the game really is.
If you didn't buy the bad apples excuse for Abu Ghraib (which of course you didn't), why wouldn't you would support at least some kind of independent investigation into ACORN?
As far as federal funding is concerned, they have 360 subsidiaries and adajcent entities. In addition to federal funds, they also get earmark money in return for campaign work and the state money.
It seems to be an organization that was started with great intentions but became corrupted by proximity to power and got turned into a racket.
September 17, 2009 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't have a problem with an independent investigation of Acorn. Can we prioritize it? Because I'd put it after torture, warrantless wiretapping, Cheney's energy task force, the missing Iraq money and KBR/Halliburton, Blackwater/Xe, the 9/11 commission report and Bush-Cheney's off-the-record testimony, etc. etc. etc.
September 17, 2009 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why not run all of them at the same time? It won't be done by the same people. Might even help the employment statistics, there's so much to investigate.
Plus, I never had any problem with torture investigation - Obama did.
September 17, 2009 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're sounding awfully Keynesian all of a sudden.
Touche. As I said, I don't have a problem with the premise of investigation. I do have to wonder how much should be expended on an organization that receives a few million a year, ie how much will it cost to investigate them versus how much can we reasonably expect to gain from purging corruption from their ranks. Even if we assume that every last dollar is spent illegitimately, which I'm sure would acknowledge is unlikely, might not the cost easily outweigh the benefits?
September 17, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry Lalo, there's no reason for an investigation based on these tapes. ACORN exists as a GOTV non-profit, and that's the basis on which it should be judged. Period.
That's regardless of what these tapes say or don't say, regardless of who got punk'd or not punk'd. Unless ACORN has a specific department that offers tax evasion for criminals, in return for cash, the ACORN employees on the tapes are offering their own opinions (on ACORN's dime - so I'm hardly suprised some of them got canned).
Now if there was videotape of ACORN advising politicians how to commit vote fraud..., but those kinds of tapes seem to be lacking...
September 18, 2009 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Sorry Lalo, there's no reason for an investigation based on these tapes"
- Really?? You can't be serious and writing all that with a straight face, come on.
September 18, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why not?
It appears, from some of the news I've read, that ACORN itself is in the process of commissioning an independent audit.
The record shows that they've largely done an exemplary job of self-policing.
I can certainly see investigating the activities which are funded by federal funds, but that wouldn't necessarily get anywhere near the activities at issue here.
And there is the danger that such investigations would absolve the organization of all the accusations hurled at it.
Of course, that would open a new set of possibilities to proclaim the corruptness of a taxpayer-funded investigative whitewash of ACORN.
September 18, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
WE NEED OUR OWN UNDER COVER OPERATIONS.
Join the SCV and get the n word on tape.
Join the local repubs and get some good racist stuff on tape.
Join the AEI and get into some planning sessions from those 'intellectuals' who could never get their slimy materials published.
Work with SWIFTBOATERS and get their tactics exposed.
It is all well and fine to grab pedophiles in kitchens. I am certainly not against that.
But surely we could set up some drug schemes or prostitution rings to catch the family values crowd.
September 17, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Acorn bites back,
http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031
September 17, 2009 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
"But my purpose here isn't to get a real sense of the accuracy of these videos."
No, wouldn't want to do that. Might have to make an informed decision.
September 17, 2009 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps you should adhere to your moniker and be a little more reluctant. I don't know how accurate what we see in these videos is. Do you?
September 17, 2009 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh good, you're here, because you always add so much to the discusion. I've been meaning to ask you: is that a real picture of you? And, if so, did those botox injections hurt?
September 17, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oooh, snap! I'm wounded. Why don't you spend sometime investigating whether the information in these videos is true instead of thinking up rude & lame responses. This ACORN stuff must be pretty hard for you to take. When you believe in something so much, then find out it is corrupt, boy, that is rough.
Come on people, 5 videos from 5 different cities?And why would the people get fired? ACORN should be standing up for these exemplary employees, yet they are not.
September 17, 2009 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where in any of my posts have I indicated that I believe in ACORN? Like most right wing bitches, your assumptions are both stupid and wrong. Crawl back into your OC hole.
September 17, 2009 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Methinks I hit a nerve. Thank you for playing.
September 18, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to reserve judgment. I want so badly to believe they didn't really do this, but if they did, they may as well have personally sabotaged any and every government program the Dems want to start.
As far as the repubs are concerned, it's one thing for white collar Wall St. types to bilk the country of billions. It's a whole different thing when a bunch of liberal Acorn types bilk the country of a few bucks here and there...
September 17, 2009 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aww, come on, stilli. This is exactly where the people pushing this want it go. It most certainly does not sabotage every government initiative that the Dems want to start, though the right would love nothing more than for this story to get long, long legs, for Acorn to be seen as wholly corrupt and, most importantly, for Acorn to be seen a synonymous with the President and his party. Don't give them the pleasure.
September 17, 2009 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, of course that's where they want it to go...And a few terrible employees may have given them lots of ammo for getting there...I am not giving them the pleasure...every person on the left that does something this incredibly stupid does.
Linking Acorn to Obama is a done deal in the minds of those who want to see him fail...Now all they have to do is use this along with all the other bs to sway a few in the middle. One thing, no problem, but the more stuff they rack up, the more the thing that looks like a duck and quacks like a duck gets seen as a duck. They are GREAT at capitalizing on the screw ups of the left...we're giving them lots of screw ups to capitalize on.
Is it fair? No. But what would we do if the shoe was on the other foot?
I am still hoping the employees were punking the pair, but come on..
September 17, 2009 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Acorn rep who said she had murdered her husband was definitely punking them, he is alive and kicking.
September 17, 2009 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Punking, or trying to sound "bad"...? Believe me, I HOPE that when they see the whole tape there is something in it that proves the reporting was doctored, that there was evidence that she did let them know she wasn't serious...Otherwise it doesn't much matter...damage done.
September 17, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stilli,
It is reported the police investigated all the crap the ACORN employee said to them and it's all lies, she was so obviously 'gaming' them - she said they wouldn't leave and she was just doing to them what she believed they were doing.
September 17, 2009 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why wouldn't she call the police and file a report like, presumably, Philly office did?
September 17, 2009 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey LaLo!
Hope all is well!
Honestly, Like I said above, I don't have all the facts - bits, pieces, hearsay... but not all facts. The comment was just in interview aired - so I'm gonna try and do the prudent, best thing and wait until all facts and data is published via credible sources.
Good to see ya. Take care.
September 17, 2009 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The flip side of the "only a few bad apples" argument is this one:
When you find 3-4 cockroaches -- and kill them -- do you believe the problem is solved?
Neither the GOP nor the Dems have a lock on how they rig voter lists, etc.
It's great we have these two huge watchdogs on each other... and we should be constantly cheering whenever a "few bad apples" get discovered. It's how you force larger organizations to policy themselves -- when there is significant pressure from the outside.
Given the confirmed voter fraud in FL in 2000, there is ample opportunity discover the dirty tricks down there and bring it to the public's attention as well. Did the Dems do their job here?
I do not want any partisan group to be involved in the 2010 Census. That's an impractical idea, of course, but at least we can knock out the obvious problems.
Let's be fair: if ACORN had been able to filter out the Mickey Mouse voters (literally) in 2008, there would have been no issue now. While I don't believe all the people in ACORN are dishonest, there's clearly something procedurally wrong in the organization to allow this type of slip-up to happen.
ACORN is a community action group - and it excels at that. That doesn't, automatically, make it a good choice for the more serious and complex issues associated with government function.
PS Good to see you post here, DF!
September 17, 2009 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Mickey Mouse registrations were filtered out and reported by Acorn.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909160020
September 17, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is really, really interesting. Despite all their goofs with the McCain story, I figured NYTimes was a 'go to' source, above general skepticism.
My bad. Thanks for this particular blog.
I will note, however, that ACORN has done a particularly poor job at fighting this image foisted on them by someone else.
September 17, 2009 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those, and the vast majority of fraudulent or otherwise improper voter registrations were discovered and reported by ...
ACORN.
September 18, 2009 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good to see you, too. Acorn definitely has its problems, but it's also been made a target by a certain group. Then again I suppose that's what you mean by neither party has a lock, etc.
What about letting college students work for the census? Perhaps they can work off student loans. I know that the CSU and UC systems in CA are hurting for funding and raising tuition. Why not let students perform some civil service to help pay for their educations?
September 17, 2009 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent suggestion. We need quasi-pros under direct government control. The Census determines district boundaries, funding, and vital info that budgetary policy is made from. To farm it out to 3rd parties at all is no better than farming out our national defense.
September 17, 2009 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. I also don't see why we haven't enlisted our universities to supply us with a transparent, publicly-owned election infrastructure rather than farming it out to private companies with obvious partisan leanings.
But the military stuff is even worse. Having a parallel corporate mercenary army doesn't seem very American to me.
Or does it? Maybe it's the most American thing of all.
September 17, 2009 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, in most states it is the politicians who decide the district boundaries, and the census data is just something they manipulate to do it.
September 18, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and we already do farm out a lot of the things that the military used to do.
September 18, 2009 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the things that many at TPM like to ignore en masse is that the 1960 election was a stolen one as much at 2000. Or, more aptly put, the winning party did a better job at stealing over the losing party.
Not to mention Landslide Lyndon.
September 17, 2009 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The future ain't what it used to be.
September 17, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives.
September 17, 2009 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yet if Acorn and Obama are allowed to continue their plans for this country is this our future (aside from more floride in our water)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxrWz9XVvls
September 17, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ummm... When has TPM even had the opportunity to ignore the 1960 election? Or is the lack of discussion proof of ignorance?
"Another fact that TPM likes to ignore is that there are dozens of varieties of pudding."
September 17, 2009 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like FNC, you misquoted me. I said "some at TPM"... not "TPM".
September 18, 2009 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Check that, I said "many at TPM"... but my point stands. Just because you aren't around for a conversation, doesn't mean it doesn't happen, Zip.
September 18, 2009 1:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
test
September 18, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me too John. But this time of day, this time of week I get a little testy.
I guess it will go away once the rapture comes and six billion people are sent away to burn in hell for eternity.
I mean ACORN was simply attempting to help a dozen enterprising young people get some tax breaks.
September 18, 2009 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink