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THE SPEED OF LIGHT


Accept disgrace willingly

Accept misfortune as the human condition.

 

What do you mean  by "Accept misfortune as the human condition?"

Accept being unimportant.

Do not be concerned with loss or gain.

This is called "accepting disgrace willingly."

 

What to you mean by 'accept misfortune as the human condition?"

Misfortune comes from having a body.

Without a body, how could there be misfortune.

 

Surrender yourself humbly; then you can be trusted to care for all things.

Love the world as you love your own self; then you can truly care for all things.

 

Tao Te Ching  (Ch-13)

 

And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

 

GENESIS I (V-14-19)





 

Acamus, one of my favorite bloggers noted this during a discussion of the earth at 6,000 years:

 

In all seriousness: that God put them there to test our faith. Just like he is doing with the light from stars: do you believe those scientists about how many thousands of light-years it has traveled to get to our eyes? God the trickster.


In physics, the speed of light (usually denoted c) refers to a fundamental physical constant, the speed at which light and all electromagnetic radiation travel in a perfect vacuum, which is 299,792,458 metres per second (about 1,079 million kilometres per hour or 671 million miles per hour). The speed of light is of significant importance in the understanding and study of relativity, spacetime, astronomy, space travel, and other fields.

You wish to know a constant in the universe?  Time is relative. Space is twisted.

But there is one constant, the speed of light. Now because of relativity, you can easily state hey, if time is not a constant, how the hell would you know how fast you are traveling in the first place?

And my mind has trouble grasping certain concepts. Try this one.

I am traveling on a freeway at 55 miles per hour, a car coming towards me is traveling 55 MPH. Ok, we are surely coming at each other at a speed of 110 mph? There is no doubt about this. Are we assuming things not in evidence? Have the speedometers been recently gauged? What is the variance factor? That is, just because my speedometer says '55mph' does not mean 55 mph absolutely.

There would be some variance between mile 1 and mile 2 for both vehicles. Wind factors change, humidity changes, road conditions change.....

In the end, who the hell cares? I mean the two objects are approaching each other at 110 mph.

Q was talking about (or shall I say ranting) that he can only trust those with IQ's under 90 or between 150 and 160. hahahaha.

Well I am under that 150 threshhold and I have the damnedest time attempting to grab hold of the thought experiments of Einstein or the thousands who understand what he was getting at in most of his theories.


But we are told that if a train is traveling at the speed of light and another train is coming in the opposite direction at the speed of light and one train has a light directed in front of it and the other train has a light source directed in front of it, the first train will view the light coming towards it as traveling toward it AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

Now we do not have planes, trains, automobiles or space ships that even approximate this speed so who the hell cares?  But the mystery of light? Wow. I love the mystery of light; and the mystery of light speed.

Do I pretend to understand this? No.  I know from the children's shows I see on the history channel that it is all about perspective.

But we DEPEND upon the speed of light being a constant. Oh yes we do. When I pushed 'submit' for this blog, the info traveled at the speed of light. And, for every piece of technology bridging this pc to the TPMC blog, there are mathematical equations.  And I do not care if we are discussing INTELL implants, satellite signals, receptor stations, cable installations,,,,,they all have underlying mathematical equations that led to their manufacture. That is, they could not have been manufactured without underlying mathematical equations. And EVERY SINGLE ONE of these equations contains C, the constant for the speed of light or the mechanism would not work.

And our radios, our televisions, our Atari games, well...none of them would work without C. None of them.

We, the entire human race relies upon the speed of light being a constant. Now there are variances of course.  What might effect the speed of light at any given time?  Well the environment in which the light is traveling. After all, there is no such thing as a perfect vacuum.

Those materials with large indices of refraction are called optically dense media. (A medium is just a fancy word for a type of material.) Materials with indices of refraction closer to one are called optically rare media. Being naturally lazy creatures, we generally drop the word "optical'' and talk about dense and rare materials. Just be careful not to confuse dense and rare in the optical context with mass density!

Notice that the index of refraction of air differs from the index of refraction of vacuum by a very small amount. For applications with less than 5 digits of accuracy, the index of refraction of air is the same as that of vacuum, n= 1.000.  You will probably not encounter a situation in which the difference between air and vacuum matters, unless you plan a future in precise optics experimentation.

Even though light slows down in matter, it still travels at an amazing speed, even through a dense material such as lead still travels at an amazing speed.  (Although light does not travel far through lead before being absorbed, high-energy gamma rays can travel a centimeter or so through lead at the speed calculated here.)  Using the definition of n, we can find the speed of light through lead:   http://www.rpi.edu/dept/phys/Dept2/APPhys1/optics/optics/node4

Light travels at a slower speed in water or in our atmosphere for that matter. The speed of light is affected by gravity.  But the variance is so small that it is meaningless except within certain boundaries of 'precise optics experimentation.' And any variance is measurable. Any variance is predictable.

If the speed of light is a constant, then the universe as far as our astrophysicists can tell must be billions and billions of years old. Period. There is no exception. You see?

Well some of these 'theologians' went to college and stuff and took more courses than Jesus On Dinosaur Back. And if these demagogues cannot get past the speed of light as a constant, they are sunk; because they must admit the EXTREME age of the universe.

You see, they will pshaw the contention that the bible indeed describes the earth as flat, that the earth was created before the sun and the stars.....But they will maintain the 'newness' of the earth and the universe anyway. This is exceeding stupid to me, but is eaten up by a relatively large segment of our population.

I maintain that the anti evolutionists are forced to dispute that light travels at a constant speed. These religious zealots build their entire pyramid of idiocy on the 'newness' crap. If that is taken away, they perceive that they lose the argument.  It just does not work for them to say, well God can do anything. He can change the speed of light anytime he wishes. TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL VIRAL THREATS!!!

So they spend some time thinking. How can we get past what really is God's Constant?  Well some of them just use a leap of logic. I mean: 

I am the way, the LIGHT, and the truth.

I love Christopher Hitchens. If I could choose anyone in the world to have a good brandy with, it would be CH. Oh there were times I wished to kill him. I mean his backing of Bush and the Iraqi war...

But he is sooooooooo goooooooooood at tete a tete, at argument, at debate. When he is arguing a perspective with which I agree on some subject, I am gratified. So like Twain or Bryan or Palin, Hitchens goes on the speech circuit getting paid, usually and always selling his latest book.

And if you wander through youtube you will find him debating priests, rabbis, ministers and philosophers. I had just recalled a debate he had with Dinesh D'Souza.  DD is basically a right wing prick, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D%27Souza  Dinish is caught outing gays at Dartmouth as well as denouncing the entrance policies there. Just a prick.

In the debate that I witnessed, D'Souza made an interesting comment. He stated that we really do not KNOW the speed of light.

It was queer to me because Hitchens had not been discussing it.  This Indian started going on and on about the travails of inductive reasoning.  He said that just because we have measured the speed of light does not mean we know what the speed of light actually is. He then started ranting that even if we had measured the speed of light a thousand times, nay a million times it would not necessarily prove anything.

I was struck by this.  Not just his faulty reasoning, but I was in a quandary as to why he brought up the subject at all. This must be important to him and his cause. I cannot reproduce the entire debate because of...well because of capitalism. You may purchase it here:  http://www.tkc.edu/debate/

Hitchens, disputes the suspension of the laws of physics such as the constant of the universe, the speed of light. He was forced to here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vMeAwpTW1I

Well I found an old series of essays by the conservative prick that included this gem:

So what exactly are scientific laws and what degree of certainty can we attach to them? This question was raised in a recent email I received. "My question concerns your summation of Hume's position concerning scientific laws," the writer says. In my book on Christianity, I cited Hume to make the point that "no finite number of observations, however large, can be used to derive an unrestricted general conclusion that is logically defensible."  http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/bloggers/dinesh-dsouza

So where do we get this so-called "law"? And where do we get other laws, such as Newton's inverse square law or the law that says "light travels at the speed of 186,000 miles per second in a vacuum"? Hume would argue that we have measured many humans and other life forms and found DNA and therefore we infer that all humans and other life forms are made of DNA. Similarly we have measured the speed of light frequently and from this we derive the idea that light always and everywhere travels at the same speed.

In particular, just because we have measured light at a given speed a hundred or a thousand or ten million times doesn't mean that light always and everywhere travels at that speed. How do we know that on a distant star, light travels at the same speed as it does here? In truth, we do not know. Along the same lines, if tomorrow a life form was located on, say, Mars, and this life form did not contain DNA, we could no longer hold that all life forms are made of DNA.

From this we can conclude that: scientific laws are not really "laws" but merely generalizations based on previous tries. Once we recognize this we see why miracles are entirely within the realm of scientific possibility. Since we cannot name a single empirical scientific law that is in principle inviolable, we cannot rule out deviations from these so-called laws. I'm not arguing for the validity of this or that miracle. I'm simply saying that the idea that these things cannot happen is based on an ignorance of what science shows and doesn't show.  http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/bloggers/dinesh-dsouza

This is just one in a series of posts I wish to do on this subject.  I wish here to simply point out that if you are attempting to discuss an issue related to light or the speed of light, you cannot converse with Dinesh the prick. It is a waste of time. He might give you insights as to the problems between the Hindus and Muslims in India with a decidedly conservative slant that you would have to research later. But he is an idiot in this area of conversation.

My point in this series is that  people who call themselves intelligent designers are really fundamental creationists. Their real point is to guide people into the dark ages. To put a six thousand, or eight thousand or ten thousand year age upon the earth. To put the earth at the center of universe. To undo five hundred years of experimentation and deduction.  In short, to throw reason to the winds.

Do not worry about stratifications, about levels of idiocy. That is not their aim. Some will say, hey I am not saying the earth is 6000 years old.  Yes they are. They are lying. They are liars.

And like C-Street folks, they do not feel that their 'laws' of science or religion or anything else apply to them. They are totalitarianists.  Period.

Watch this from another fascist theologian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJmBevvR0Y&feature=related

He calls human domestication of dogs, 'microevolution' . Lee Strobel sees a great difference between micro evolution and macro evolution. He claims that his argument places science against  science not science against religion.

People, there is a conspiracy going on here.

WE MUST NOT LOSE OUR BELIEF IN THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Ha!!!


58 Comments

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And I'll be that if we accused D'Souza of practicing the illogic and relativism he is thus engaging in, his head would explode.

Because he asserts such things as he does, he denies objective reality.

Reality has a surprise waiting for him somewhere down the road.

And light is my friend, and also my co-worker. I use it every time I work. Electricity too - I make light from electricity.

I make other things from electricity too - these words being a ready example. Any photo I make, for example, is made of both light and electricity. Any recording, any electronic representation.

Don't mess with my friends, Dinesh...

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hahhaahah. This has bothered me for over a year since I first saw it.

Then I learned, mostly from you kind folks, that you could get to youtube and find somethings that were not hip hop.

And Google finds ANYONE. Even me. hahahahaha

Yeah, STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY ONE CONSTANT IN LIFE. HAHAHAHAHA

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Light being both particle and wave at the same time is more than unreasonable in any constant whatsoever. Do you not agree, DD?

See, I said "whatsover", proving my religiosity.

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Light being both particle and wave at the same time is more than unreasonable in any constant whatsoever. Do you not agree, DD?

See, I said "whatsover", proving my religiosity.

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hahahhaha

I noted months ago somewhere that in my reading of popular monographs written by 'experts' we really DO NOT KNOW WHAT LIGHT IS.

We know its affects and effects, that is it. Just like gravity.

We know what these forces do, but we really do not KNOW what light is or what gravity is.

But the speed of both is the same. If we lost the sun it would take 8 or 9 minutes to know it.

Gravitons, photons....

I will read for instance, that photons have no mass and then on another page of the same tome, it ascribes a mass to a photon.

BUT WE KNOW WHAT THE SPEED OF LIGHT IS.

I PROMISE. hahahahahaha

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There once was a student named Bright
Who's speed was much faster than light
He went out one day
In a relative way
And returned on the previous night.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Jesus (blesses himself) now I have to clean my keyboard. hahaha

I got to get back and see if you redid your links.

Oh and I should render unto you, ickyma, the Dayly Poem Award for the Day, at this here TPMCafe Site, given to all of you from all of me.

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To a true Conservative the speed of light is what ever they want it to be - יְהִי אוֹר

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Hi my feline canine friend. Where have you been?

The speed of light, the speed of gravitons, the speed of idiots running to voting booths. hahahha

Good to see ya!!!!

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I've got some work. I know I can't believe it myself. Have been lurking. I hardily recommend...but only once...I swear...
"Let there be light" "יְהִי אוֹר"

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In particular we know the age of the earth or universe because we see all those stars up there every night. Taking for granted they are all similar to our sun, with many of them being hundreds or thousands of times larger, we have to realize they are very far away, from us and from each other. You could not have that many suns throwing off the immense energy they do without them being billions of light years distant. Either that or you decide all those twinkling things up there are something else.

What is really cool about this is the whole thing could blow up tomorrow somewhere far, far away and we won't even know for some undetermined millions of years.

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Yes. Life is in flux and constantly in danger.

Like the children's shows on History Channel; demonstrating that a supernova thousands of light years away from us could swallow the entire planet.

We are alone. With nothing but Newtonian and Einsteinian theories threatening us. Every hour of every day.

Like the fellow put to the fires during the time of Galileo for postulating that every single spark of light in the sky was a potential sun with orbiting earths. hahahahahah

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Would that be necessarily true if you factored in velocity?
External velocity created by a super explosion.
Affecting the intensity and the speed?

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There ya go REsistance.

You know you have a CONSTANT.

There are no constants.

But the closest thing I have found from the scientists is C. The speed of light.

Cant you see what these fundamentalists are doin to me? Cant you see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4-a8zh0m9c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mibbit.com%2Fchat%2F&feature=player_embedded

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I think the theory of relativity prohibits speed in excess of the constant c. Under very specific circumstances this limit has been exceeded but no circumstance as it applies to matter is capable of exceeding c.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_speed_of_light_in_vacuum#Faster-than-light_observations_and_experiments

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On my fourth reading of this link I 'get' it sort of. Amazing. Where will our tech be in a hundred years? A thousand years?

Of course at this rate most of the scientists will be Indian, Chinese and European. hahaha

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In a hundred or thousand years hopefully we'll be a one country world and will have figured out it it makes more sense to put our global resources to something other than killing each other.

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There are a number of constants, including Planck's (minimum size or duration), the fine-structure constant (spectroscopy), the charge of the electron. The speed of light is not a matter of observation in current thinking, but actually defined by theory. Its observed behavior does not contradict the theory, and since there are so many other lines of evidence to support Special Relativity we don't have to accept a provisional definition of c.

Ironic that conservatives argue for Absolute Moral Truth but deny observable physical thuth (climate, genetics). The one that can't be proved is of course The Truth. And you're clearly of questionable moral strength, if you place your faith in Ole Romer's study of silly things like the timing of Jupiter's eclipses which put us in the ballpark (est. 220,000 km/sec, actual 300K) back in the 17th century. Dinesh needs to read more and rant less.

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Thuth, read truth. (Para 2.)

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Yes. Tom you have hit it. If I was a true Deist, I would have grasped C as the true god. Which I kind of do really, internally.

There is so much out there that varies.....

Oh well.

Thank you for these comments Tom.

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As to measuring the speed in real space:

---It is not possible, however, to measure the one-way speed of light (for example from a source to a distant detector) without some convention as to how clocks at the source and detector should be synchronized.[17] Einstein (who was aware of this fact) postulated that the speed of light in an inertial frame should be taken as constant in all cases. That postulate is fundamental to the theory of special relativity.[21][22] Although the speed of propagation is independent of motion of the source, the observed frequency can change due to the Doppler effect.

In general relativity the concepts of 'distance', 'time', and therefore 'speed' are not always unambiguously defined due to the curvature of spacetime caused by gravitation.[23] Similarly measurements of the speed of light made in non-inertial frames may give values other than c depending on how distances and times are defined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

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Oh thank god. Now It is all so clear to me now

hahahahaha

ARE THERE NO CONSTANTS IN THE UNIVERSE AT ALL EXCEPT DAYTIME TELEVISION. HAHAHAHA

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Luckily the curvature of space due to gravitation isn't so big--at least around the earth. I love that experiment that had the atomic clock in orbit initially synced with the one on earth and compared after so many rotations. They can measure differences, but they aren't that great.

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True story Matyra. Atomic clock.

You know I love it when at the end of the 'year' we will get a 'reset' which I assume has to do with our distance from the sun.

We are residing upon a rotating stone, revolving at a great velocity, around a sun which is taking its entire 'system' throughout space within its own galaxy and the galaxy itself is hurtling into space....

There really is no 'focus' point as such.

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LOL, except ourselves. We're the star of our own show. Mine's called "matyra-opolis" and yours is called "dickday on a wire". I think.

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Dick. Erica says the Bachmann's have been running a mental health clinic in YOUR HOME STATE. I cannot believe you've allowed this monstrosity to grow up on your own turf.

I think you should apply immediately for treatment. And report back to us. ;-)

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Well Quinn I must take you back to another time. A time when people cared about those who were eschewed by society. Now We have:

http://www.bachmans.com/retail/category.asp?catalog_name=Bachmans&category_name=By+Product&Page=1&ID1=4189&gclid=CPv0ptiT15wCFc1N5wodS3i6kQ&cookie_test=1

And then of course we had the Backman's who were involved in brain transplants:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8On7rktFZME

He kind of worked undercover so to speak.

Then we had the introduction of an entirely new type of therapy as some would call it:

But then we created the Mayo Clinic:


And then we were off and running.

Now Michelle, well we discovered her of course,
in the old albums of the Beatles, they were an early communist band:


And then we kind of hit on it, so to speak, WE DISCOVERED HOW TO RAISE THE DEAD TO THE LIVING:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5Hr6NTsbtg

Which is where they get the expression:


HOLD THE MAYO

Anyway, Minnesota, as we like to call it at least when we do not have coalmen representing us, has always been at the forefront, so to speak:


Now, the repubs like to say that everybody likes to come HERE and have their private parts enhanced.

But that is not really the truth.

I had to remove three or four citations because the repubs put forward rules.

Hopefully I can return and 'fill in the blanks' so to speak.

I liked Michelle, but she was not really "that into oral sex"

She also did not really enjoy negro children


Hope to see you sooooooon, the nurse said the hours have grown late, so to speak.

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Mr. Day,
If light is so constant, why do we only get it half the time?

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Well Strato, really we only get LIGHT half the time at the Equator.

Up here, where I reside, we get LIGHT for some 16 hours at times and at other times less than 8 hours during the winter.

So I mean, you have a point. but then again you dont.

Like most scientific answers, sometimes you do and sometimes you dont.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv2LJz5tvFI&NR=1

But I always feel that the sun, the sun rules all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZtQh5EIgWQ

THE END

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Ha! I knew you'd say,
"Do not be concerned with loss or gain."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49IzD9IE5Vc

Not to get heavy D, but thanks for the light.
I enjoyed it all, even though I still don't understand
how space creates time.

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Well, lets agree upon one thing. One true fact. Dinesh and the creationists, do not only no believe in one truth or understand one truth.

How can they take their lies and sell them to the masses per the operational propaganda system in order to fulfill the hope for a globe run by corporations. Corporations who have no such beliefs. No beliefs in anything except their own aims.

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When human beings have the power to define truth, you will have lies. That is a constant that supercedes and takes precedence over c. Thus, the apparent alternate universe we are living in is real.

As confirmation of this there is abundant evidence that we have gone back in time. This has totally messed up the space time continuum. We have introduced into 1900 or before a 2009 world. This has allowed for certain persons to take advantage of all the superstitions which once existed but have no place in 2009. This confirms the oft expressed idea that time travel is not without concern. The reversal of time has an equivalence in societal progression and going backward in that regard is encumbered with the same concern. In the sense that the space time continuum is ripped so is the fabric of society. The progression of time and society are both one way operations and reversing either are sure to produce undesirable results.

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The corporations are "persons" without accountability.
They only believe in the speed of fright.

What is happening in the country now is the true
cost of allowing them to control and manipulate us.

The corporate creationists conflate
healthcare (the body) with evolution and decry
both as taboo leftwing conspiracies.

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Here's a GREAT Lesson! Listen closely, it's witty and smart!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20LWam5KMQg

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That is fun Icky. They are doing as many fantastic tricks with sound as they are on the screen.

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And this one is a MUST Listen, too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xgaVbOjwUE

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"It is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light, and certainly not desireable, as one's hat keeps blowing off."

Woody Allen

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Thanks, John. This is the only comment I understood. ;o)

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"If we ask, whether the position of the
electron remains the same, we have to say no.
If we ask, whether the position of an electron
changes with the course of time, we have to
say no. If we ask, whether the electron is in
a state of rest, we have to say no. If we ask,
whether the electron is in motion, we have to
say no."
- J.R. Oppenheimer


During the French Revolution a philosopher, a
poet, and a physicist were condemned to die by
the guillotine. First they bring up the
philosopher and put his head in the block.
Then the executioner pulls the cord, but the
blade doesn't fall and remains at the top. The
executioner exclaims, "It's a sign from God!
You may go free." Next they bring up the poet
and put his head in the block. The executioner
pulls the cord, but again the blade doesn't
fall and remains at the top. The executioner
exclaims, "It's another sign from God! You may
go free." Finally they bring up the physicist,
but being a different sort he asks to be
placed into the block looking up at the blade.
Just as the executioner gets ready to pull the
cord, the physicist shouts, "Hold it! I think
I see your problem."


C

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hahhhahaa Sometimes there are people who really do not appreciate their own context, so to speak.

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In 1990, a politician, a physicist, and poet wander around Mont Saint Michel, France, and ponder big ideas aloud. Name that movie.

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Let me get this straight:

Because even if we measure something a million times, or a million, million, million times, and it is always the same, that does not ensure that the next time we measure it it might not be the same. OK, but is that any reason to throw away science, that result of the million, million, million identical measurements, and then accept an understanding based on superstition, myth, wishful thinking, illogic, and outright BS, that has no foundation at all in observable phenomena?

Where does one follow from the other? It's like saying that because there is a philosophical, or at least possible -- even if only infinitesimally possible, chance that a scientific theory may need to be reformed sometime in the future, we must now all believe in the tooth fairy.

WTF??

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Heh, I'm a geologist who uses radioisotopes to date things. There's a bit of slop in the 2nd decimal place for the decay constant that I use. But every time it's measured, they get pretty close to the same number. No instrument we make is perfect, so there will always be a bit of error in what we measure. Year after year these machines are improved, however, so it gets a bit better. But just because our machines have slight measuring errors doesn't mean that we can't use the constant--or that it doesn't exist.

I get so annoyed when science twisters use that bit of slop to say that the whole thing is invalidated. It's like saying that because occasionally there's a cloud in front of the sun that the sun doesn't exist. "Hey idiot, why is it still day then?"

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The cloud in front of the sun. I cant put it more perfectly than that.

And these nutsos would have us, our children ignore the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS of the theorists that we use every single day.

But again, like C-Street, there is a political angle to all of this for some of the leaders of this dark age movement.

I did listen to two hours of hitchens and this Rabbi and it was interesting. It was heated. The Rabbi was anti evolution but I listened closely and found no real challenging of inductive findings.

But that is another subject.

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Yes, it gripes me to no end. But then I caught the political implication here. Again the earth and the universe MUST be 'relatively new' AND god must intervene by suspending the normal rules of physics.

If THEY cannot beat this back, the new vision of the universe, their entire religion simply collapses. So they must deny. Really we 'test' and 'confirm' the speed of light a billion times a day, hell billions of times a day really. I am testing it now.

They simply take Hume and 'prove' ontologically really (in the manner of Anselm) that inductive reasoning is false.

How on earth can we teach our children if we instruct them do ignore inductive findings?

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They are people caught in the prisonhouse of language (as we all are) who are in denial of this imprisonment and passing (or trying to pass) this denial to their children.

In some ways this fear of having to re-think their paradigms is part of their freak-out on Obama's Sept 8th speech to the students. They need constant reinforcement of their delusion and illusions, and this means they can't have their children walking around and asking all kinds of craaaaazzzzy questions about quarks and strings and black holes.

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It is the breadth of the stupidity, denial that gets me. Where are our geologists, astronomers, physicists going to come from?

Oh there will always be a good segment of the population that will continue to urge their children into 'the light'. But this has got to seriously hamstring us as Americans. We will have to import an increasing number of scientists into this country if this barbaric thinking persists.

Oh and thanks for your own comment that fit so nicely into my post.

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In the math and sciencies, we are already a second rate country, and rapidly become a third rate. The problem is that pretty soon we won't be able to "import" them at all because they'll prefer to stay in (or return to) their own country. Actually this is already begining to happen.

And thank you for your reflection-inducing posts.

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How on earth can we teach our children if we instruct them do ignore inductive findings?

That's the whole point, Dick.

For the so-called religious, as you said, "If THEY cannot beat this back, the new vision of the universe, their entire religion simply collapses."

Can't have that. Since this type of religion is not based on true spiritual quest, but rather superstition and blind obedience, actual knowledge is the enemy.

And, for the corporate, fascist types who promote this, it's clear that the easiest path to control a population for your own ends, is to keep that population ignorant and afraid. That way they won't realize how they are being abused and/or be too timid and scared to change it fearing something even worse, like the horrible conditions the benighted peasants have in France.

As for the eventual decline and collapse of a society that this type of behavior engenders, the religious don't know or don't believe it will happen, in part because they think that the success of this society is built upon their religious or so-called moral values and not upon knowledge and practical science, and the rich don't care, since they already have theirs.

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Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

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Of course, Eric sings it best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk

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There's just an incredible lightness about your being, DD.

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Well what a nice message to begin Labor Day Weekend.

You have a nice weekend Gregor.

Oh and sing along with Eric and acamus. ha

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Quite enlightening post, Dick, relatively speaking.

Maybe our solar system is just an atom in a 15-billion-year-old molecule in the retina of a prime mover's eyeball, processing experiential data at a rate that appears to have some constancy, contributing to the neuronal transmission of the vigilant visualization of a hopelessly skeptical yet quite lovable humanoid dude into an image in the omniscient mass of galactical grey matter where he thinks (therefore i am), "i really dig that dickday's aptitude for exploring the ever-expanding limits of space , even as he, poker-faced, plops a royal flush (who'd a thought it!) down on the table of time in such an unpredictable game of life. Meanwhile the queen of black holes tosses her two pairs of kings and knaves at warp speed while looking on in unbelief. Or maybe not.

Thanks. You help us lighten up.

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hhaahahah. Clever and kind at the same time Carey. Thank you so much.

And have a nice long weekend!!!!

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Fantastic comment Carey!

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186,000 mph; It's not just a good idea, it's the Law!

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ha per second. hahahahahaha

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dickday

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  • Location Virginia, MN
  • Party Democrat
  • Politics Fabian Socialist

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  • Favorite Blogs huffington post Slate
  • Favorite Books Le Morte D'Artur, Justice at Nuremburg, Heroditus' An History, Foote's Civil War, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and of Shaw's plays
  • Favorite Quotes A horse is a horse of course, of course -- a matter of strategery-- all men are created equal,

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retired atty crotchety old man

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