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TOCQUEVILLE & TWAIN


  

Western Philosophy
19th-century philosophy

Alexis de Tocqueville



                                                      Samuel Langhorne Clemens


What men called 'the people' in the most democratic republics of antiquity was very unlike what we designate by that term. In Athens all the citizens played a part in public affairs, but there were only 20,000 citizens in a population of three hundred and fifty thousand. All the rest were slaves....

Athens then with her universal suffrage was no more than an aristocratic republic in which all the nobles had an equal right in government.

The struggle between patricians and plebeians at Rome must be seen in the same light as an internal quarrel between the elder and younger branches of the same family. They all belonged to the aristocracy and had an aristocratic spirit.(475-476)

 

This is really important to me.  Think about the Charter of Liberties which was the precursor to the Magna Carta. To whom, did its stated 'freedoms' or 'rights', apply?

Reading the ancient literature of the Welsh, Irish, Scots and English, you come to realize that there were a hell of a lot of kings. Same thing all over Continental Europe.  'Duke' means leader/king.   A kingdom might refer to an area of a few square miles. That is why I am bemused when someone touts their aristocratic roots. EVERYBODY HAS ARISTOCRATIC ROOTS.

When we speak of Habeas Corpus, this had no application to that scene with Michael Palin and Eric Idle piling up manure and spouting Marxist ideology. I mean, our heritage is composed of two classes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI The aristocrats and the animals.

Democracy a few hundred years ago did not have anything to do with the Common Man.

The purpose of this post was really taken from Jonnienohands' blog.  http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jonwisby/2009/07/societal-memory-test.php

You know, we are supposed to know the sins of our fathers or we are destined to repeat them.

HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER

We must cherish our history so that we do not forget from whence we came.

Now our Forefathers brought forth on this continent a new nation...But how was it really and truly new?  This is what Tocqueville is so excited about.

No you could not vote if you did not own land in most places in this country. And attorneys are expensive as he likes to point out. (zzzzz)  And the constitution had nothing to do with some small farmer who had a plow and a horse and happened to kill his neighbor over a tree line dispute. Not really.

Greek and Latin should not be taught in all the schools. But it is important that those who are destined by nature or fate to adopt a literary career or to cultivate such tastes should be able to go to schools where the classics are well taught and true scholars are formed. (477)

John Quincy Adams was translating Thucydides when he was eight or nine. I mean I love Herodotus, I really do. And I had the best of educations but I never read him in the 'original' Greek.

I do have a tome of Thucydides somewhere here and frankly I do not care where it is right now. It is one of the most boring reads I have ever come across. This student of Herodotus goes on and on about battles on the sea and on the land and he continues to go on and on and on. And I must say that Alcibiades is one of the most interesting characters of all time. I mean forget Benedict Arnold. This guy changed sides more often than some of our modern day quarterbacks.

Our forefathers were disciplined oligarchs.

Although America now pays perhaps less attention to literature than any other civilized country, there is nevertheless, a large number of people who take an interest in things of the mind, and if they do not give their entire lives to such studies, at least entertain their leisure with them.  (477)

Tocqueville then goes on to describe how we got most of our books from England and concludes with this strange line:

I remember reading the feudal drama of Henry V for the first time in a log cabin.

Now John Quincy Adams had daddy and mommy around to tell him how to read his classics. I doubt there were people at our first universities who could have done a better job. Hell I doubt we have anybody better now. ha

But this is 1830-1840 and Abe Lincoln had already read his copy of Henry V in his log cabin many years before Tocquiville arrived here.

We, that is Americans, READ THINGS OUR OWN WAY. And if you liked to read, it had nothing to do with your blue blood. Or how much land you owned.

Alexis goes on to note that educated Englishmen do not appreciate the American Writer:

Their complaint is not only that the Americans have introduced a lot of new words....but these new words are generally taken from the jargon of the parties, the mechanical arts or trade. They also say that Americans have given new meanings to old English words. Finally, they maintain that the Americans often mix their styles in an odd way, sometimes putting words together which, in the mother tongue, are carefully kept apart.(478)

WE AINT DOIN IT RIGHT. HAHAHAHHAHAHA

The language of an aristocracy ought to be as at rest as are all its institutions. But few new words are needed, as few new things are made and even when something new is made, people are at pains to describe it in familiar words whose meanings is fixed by tradition.(478)

Just as an aside, I really did think not so long ago that BFF was some sexual profanity. Hahaha 

By and large, the literature of a democracy will never exhibit the order, regularity, skill, and art characteristic of aristocratic literature, formal qualities will be neglected or actually despised. The style will often be strange, incorrect, overburdened, and loose, and almost always strong and bold...Short works will be commoner than long books, with than erudition, imagination than depth. There will be a rude and untutored vigor of thought with great variety and singular fecundity. Authors will strive to astonish more than to please and to stir passions than to charm taste. (474)

Immediately I think of Twain. Twain would not write his first news story about 25 or 30 years after Tocqueville gets here. But his essays and his short stories would take over literature forever....Why? How did such a thing come to pass?

So Americans have not yet, properly speaking, got any literature. Only the journalists strike me as truly American. They certainly are not great writers, but they speak their country's language and they make themselves heard. (471)

This is where Twain came from. Ha!!!!!

Only a newspaper can put the same thought at the same time before a thousand readers...The power of newspapers must therefore grow as equality spreads. (520)

Among the twelve million people living in the United States, there is not one single man who has dared to suggest restriction the freedom of the press.

I must demur here a little, I mean there have been huge attacks on the press in this country going back through the centuries. But Tocqueville is looking at our press in contrast to his experiences in Europe.

The he writes about the first American news article he ever read:

In this whole affair the language used by Jackson was that of a heartless despot exclusively concerned with preserving his own power. Ambition is his crime.....He governs by corruption and his guilty maneuver will turn to his shame and confusion.(182)

Tocqueville is shocked and I think this is when and how he falls in love with America.

Tocqueville even has a short chapter entitled: WHY AMERICAN WRITERS AND SPEAKERS ARE OFTEN BOMBASTIC. (488)  HAHAHAHAHA

HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER

Not Americans.

 

See, fifty years before Europe even knew there was an America, this goldsmith Johannes Gutenberg  who invented the printing press. What was the first book printed? THE BIBLE.

Oh, and not in Latin, but German.

Not a good omen for El Papa. People started reading their own bible. What the hell did they need a priest for, let alone El Papa. And in 75 years or so Luther shows up with 95 Theses in 1517.

Of course it did not take Martin too long to become part of the 'establishment'; responsible for putting down his own uprisings. Ha

One hundred years after that fiasco, America is up and running. And they bring the press with them. Less than a hundred years after THAT, well...

Anybody can read if given the opportunity, and anybody can read in their own language. There are these penny newspapers all over the goddamn place (blesses himself) and longer newspapers and petitions and............

We are off and running.

And Tocqueville gets here about 1830 and writes two volumes in 1835 and 1840.

These newspapers, penny or not, start a revolution. Anybody who knows how to write, can be published somewhere. Take a look at this:  http://faculty.mdc.edu/jmcnair/Joe28pages/Schooling,%20Education,%20and%20Literacy%20in%20Colonial%20America.htm

There are great pix on this link showing what an English Primer looked like in the 17th century here.  It also demonstrates that our roots for public education arose in the North and the South eschewed this concept. BIG SURPRISE HUH?

Tocqueville gets to this country only forty years after the French Revolution. Yet he is astounded by what newspapers get away with in this country. I mean attacking our own president and calling him such terrible names.

Well to sum up.

American writers are bombastic.

American writers are not concerned that much with how others have chosen to written.

American writers are not concerned with the constraints of the language of the aristocrats.

American writers are irreverent.

American writers often write shorter works than their European counterparts.

American writers will oft times go for satire and irony than worry about exactitudes.

So I am struck, not only with the fact that Tocqueville predicts the arrival of Mark Twain; but how he predicts so much about our writers for the next 160 or 170 years.

And we may have lost the penny newspapers. Hell we are losing our dollar newspapers as well.

But this internet...

I mean articles are even shorter than in our own newspapers.

Voices are being heard again from our people. Voices that we would NEVER HEAR.

And we are in a new oligarchy.  A small group of powerful people that have all the real rights; that have real control over almost every single part of our lives. But maybe there is a chance something could be done about it.

If I get caught with a little 'crack', I can tell you for sure that trial would not begin in a couple of years. Ha!!!

And I can tell you for sure that there would be no two week trial let alone two month trial.

And I can tell you that I would end up in prison.

We kind of started out like this, with a controlling oligarchy....and yet,  we didn't.

Tocqueville saw something different. He saw the promise of democracy, something I believe we have lost.

But, for now anyway, we have the penny newspapers back.

And who knows.  Millions of voices that must be heard by our representatives.

We do not have to do things the way our parents did.

We do not have to talk like them, or write like them, or eat like them, or work like them, or recreate like them.

I think Tocqueville and Twain taught us this lesson.

 

(The tome from which I quote is Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville, translated by George Lawrence, Harper & Row, 1966 NYNY)


Oh and you can get this on line but it is a different translation:


http://books.google.com/books?id=KO8tAAAAIAAJ&dq=Alexis+de+Tocqueville&printsec=frontcover&source=an&hl=en&ei=kRxaSr7ICIaaMa370EI&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4


 


54 Comments

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Brilliant. To the point. Footnotes and links. You are remarkable, Mr. D.

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Why thank you Belle. Get back from my walk and find a couple compliments from my friends

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This is an excellent post, Dickon. Excellent!

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Oh thank you so much LisB. I am glad you are home safe and sound.

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You started with my favorite scene from The Grail. (And I appreciate the subtitles because the audio on the reproductions is so poor.) You ended with a photo reproduction of a copy of DinA from the Stanford Library, a notably elitist institution. I couldn’t help but notice that the first page is marked as the property of Stanford not merely with an ink “ad librum” but with a tag physically punched through the paper. This in a way says it all. From time immemorial those who control education control their world. And as you so well describe here, education is very much about words and their meanings, territory to be won and lost in the struggle for power just as important as any other kind of higher ground.

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Larry, you write so much better than I do. ha

I really loved that line from Tocqueville about ancient 'democracies' or 'republics'. Then of course I began seeing my favorite scene from the grail since I feel like I have been piling manure and screaming Marxist 'theology' all my life. ha!!!

I caught that paragraph again about the journalist/writer. And there was Twain.

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I have taken in my later years to using Python as a kind of mental luffa. It takes two half hour episodes to produce the desired effect. At the start the sarcasm mostly stings and is even irritatingly scratchy but by the middle of the second half hour I am reduced to just saying “Yes” and laughing, like the Buddha; enlightenment achieved through the abuse of words.

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It really was brilliant. The kicker was the Monty Python piece.

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Thank you 1849, thank you very much.

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Long live irreverence and expressions of diversity!
Nicely done DD.

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Thank you Sync...

From many perspectives, may we find some answers.

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One thing Tocqueville noted that I thought was very interesting was that women had far more power in the New World than they had in the old. Not voting rights, of course, but his point was that the men-folk truly depended on them, and did as they were told. Women were completely in charge of the household, and delegated responsibilities.

That is what I remember about his book; something I've always held onto. Sorry, no link; I read him 20 years ago and that is all I remember!

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Ha. I shall review. Hey, the link I give you to the other translation was 'scanned' in by somebody else, he or she just took an old book and scanned it in. So there are notes and lines like in my paper back. ha

I got a kick out of that.

Yeah, Maybe I will do something with regard to his view of women.

I mean you awaken to a new day, make up is not a thought. Getting to the damn cow... ha!!!!!!!

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Ok, I have tried twice now to respond and Mr Laptop isn't happy with me, evidently. I'll be concise!

I recalled that de Tocqueville was very young when he came here, and I just checked -- his first edition was published when he was 30, which means he made these astute and thoughtful observations as a twenty-something -- remarkable. He also died in his 50's, so I guess he somehow knew he had to make hay...

Anyway, I want to thank you for bringing him up because I am going to read this again -- I know I have a copy somewhere, and since I am moving I will probably find it.

It is amazing to me that someone so young could have such a mature overview of things, but he surely did! Thanks for getting me to think about reading him again!

PS, If this one doesn't work, I'll just keep it to myself!

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I got it CVille. Oh and I hope your move goes ok. I hate moving.

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I am in a quandary, dd. I'm thinkin' I should give up tv and the internet and read for a couple of years. There's so much to know and so little time to know it.

Aaaah, but I forget why I am here. It is not only to read and learn from fine blogs like this one, but also for the scintillating company. I cannot give up my TPM friends.

Rec'd!

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Never would I give up such a thing. And I showed ya, you can pick up books right on the internet and read em.

Stopping once in awhile at a library or book store is NOT FORBIDDEN HOWEVER. Ha!!!

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I think the one problem with de Tocqueville is that while he observed America fairly accurately, he wasn't as up on his English lit as he might of been. Want Bombast? Read Milton Areopagitica Want Irony or Satire, well, there's always Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposalhttp://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1080 Want new words? Shakespeare coined them by the dozens. This is one of the reasons why "scholars" sometimes have thought the Bard of Avon had to be someone else. Want naughty? (Who doesn't want naughty?) I rather like Chaucer for that--I occasionally make a bugle of my breach as did the Miller in The Miller's Tale. The trouble is that once all these guys make it into anthologies they get worshiped by those who don't want the language to continue to evolve.

And while Adams might have translated Thucydides, Lincoln probably read him in translation. Here's Thucydides' (made up) version of Perikles' Funeral Oration.

It seemed to them a worthy thing that such an honor should be given at their burial to the dead who have fallen on the field of battle. But I should have preferred that, when men's deeds have been brave, they should be honored in deed only, and with such an honor as this public funeral, which you are now witnessing. Then the reputation of many would not have been imperiled on the eloquence or want of eloquence of one, and their virtues believed or not as he spoke well or ill.

The translation is Victorian. It needs an update.

Here's a little of Abe.

We are met on a great battle field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of it, as a final resting place for those who died here, that the nation might live. This we may, in all propriety do. But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate – we can not consecrate – we can not hallow, this ground – The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have hallowed it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here; while it can never forget what they did here.

Strikes me as a little familiar, just?

Thucydides made up speeches and freely admitted he did. We don't know what Lincoln actually said. There are two transcriptions... the one above is from the Nicolay draft. The Hay draft is a wee bit (an insignificantly wee bit) different. Both are at http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/gadd/gadrft.html.

My point, which barely shows if I comb my hair right, is that newness or uniqueness is less important than rightness, and we take the life out of Lincoln if we let the Professional Organization of English Majors deify him or, for that matter, Twain.

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Wow. This is great. Yeah its a little familiar.

Rightness should prevail. Will it? ha

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Amike -- agreed; great example proving that content, rather than either character count or word order, is key to understanding.

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And we are in a new oligarchy. A small group of powerful people that have all the real rights; that have real control over almost every single part of our lives. But maybe there is a chance something could be done about it.


DD, this is so to the point and so scarily ominous in its fact. All but the last I'm afraid.

There was clip from today in the tech news of Sprint farming out the management of their wireless network to Ericsson. The key phrase in the article reads thusly:

US regulatory policy must allow for "evenhanded network oversight," Ericsson told the FCC on June 8, "that recognizes providers’ needs to manage their networks and does not overburden them with prescriptive nondiscrimination or openness regulations in the absence of any market failures."

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/ericssons-rx-for-us-broadband.ars


This is the kind of shit we are being attacked with and will remain the major threat to this country. The dictatorial tone is clear and it is the very same one used in the U.S. by our own companies (all of them global as well). I don't want companies like this running anything. Everything right now is simply being dictated by business to our government dumbasses. I don't see how we could possibly be more fucked.

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It really gets depressing, that is for sure.

I am so afraid that is what is going to end up happening on the net. They--the corps--have so little control here.

They will start, I suppose with the dime theory. Charge a dime, one dime at a time, for every click. ha.

Shut this site down because..........

I sure like this now though TPC. Maybe it is just another opiate for the masses.

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I worry about that same thing. There is a big push to try and bring metered billing for net access. It was shot down once but is being repackaged to see if our regulators are gullible enough to bite on a different bait. You didn't see it here on TPM much but on the techie sites it was a real shootem up. They want to change the billing scheme and charge for the amount of data coming down the pipe for each household. This is bullcrap all the way. They know that usage is going to rise in the future because eventually everyone will have TV, phone and internet. Video will be the major content flying all over and it has high bandwidth demands. But it won't make any real difference to capacity or performance because everything will be fiber. That will actually be cheaper for carriers but they are trying to figure out how to charge more for doing less. Its a scam.

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Yes, TPC what in the hell would you need a tv or a radio or a stereo set up or a phone for anyway.

I mean could I not get a camera on even this set up and play dick tracy with everyone?

WHERE'S THE MONEY

These bastards will try anything to destroy this medium/media.

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When we have no radio or phones operating, the net will be all we have left. As it has in Iran, it may also be a useful tool here in the US, should a government become to authoritarian, like, maybe the Bush Regime?

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Quite possibly true, Mr. amike. However, uniqueness can sometimes trump rightness with complicity from amusedness.

Here's a sign a saw at a national park in China last week, above an entry area where people were waiting in line to enter the park:

Please keep a rowing attitude.

Americans certainly pressed metamorphosis upon the King's English during de Tocqueville's time, but that's small change compared to what is still in the cards for our perpetually hybridizing language. We ain't seen nothin' yet.

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I love our language. It is without a doubt the richest and most dynamic the world has ever known. Given our diversity it can be no other.

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Great sign Carey.

Like I said, I only recently found out what the hell BFF means.

This twitter thingy is changing language for the worse methinks.

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Perfecto Dick. I can't read Thucydides in it's original form, but I was able to learn enough Greek on the flight to Athens to be able to effectively argue with the cabbie when he tried to scam me with the fare from the airport. Actually all I really needed to say when he threatened calling the police was to smile, and agree that the police were in order. He disappeared post haste after that exchange. We ain't doin' it right indeed! BFF dude!

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bff dude. hahahahahahahhaha

Oh Miguel, what I would give for a video of your 'interview' with a Greek cabbie.

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Prime miguelito, dd, especially after being up all night on a red-eye from London. It was kinda like 'An Interview with a Vampire' and the threat of the police for the cabbie was like the dawning of the day for the vampire, and he accordingly fled the scene after the requisite, [Mediterranean temperament], vocalization, (much to my delight). :)

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dd, I love your T&T. And I love you!

Signed, another BFF.

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You are my BFF also Seashell. hahahahaha

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I love the colonial education website and have bookmarked it, stumbled upon it, and delicioused it. Can I return the favor with the absolutely best deTocqueville website ever? http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/detoc/home.html

It's worthwhile just browsing xroads itself. University of Virginia has performed a remarkable service with it. Jefferson would be proud, proud, proud. http://xroads.virginia.edu/

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Addendum: The hypertext section alone features the works of over sixty American authors, some of them famous (good old S. L. Clemens--lots of his) and some of them not so-- and many have additional features, though not quite as extensive as those for Alexis.

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Thank you amike. you can bet this is bookmarked. ha

both.

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DD, this is moving. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you so much. I love these two writers. I love the subject...

And, frankly, I am surprised so many others are also moved by this subject......

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Dick I saw "Year 1", written and directed by Harold Ramis starring Jack Black last night. Black seems to have taken up the mantle of John Belushi. The sneering wise ass with a severely bent heart of gold and larceny and brilliantly expressive face. Until the penultimate scene which is so reminiscent of the life of Brian.

Rambling on now, few realize how many came to this country after the disastrous and pointless 100 years war in Europe. Fought ostensibly between Catholics and Protestants, in the name of God, in reality it was the peons, the proles, the koleks, whatever you want to call the wretched refuse that fought and died within and without the castle walls for what in the end was in reality a vast petty power struggle among the dukes, barons, and kings, none of them better rulers than the next.

There's a great scene in that movie/miniseries Ted Turner made about Gettysburg. The one with Martin Sheen as Robert E. Lee. If I remember correctly, in it a stocky Irish sergeant confides to Col. Chamberlain the Maine rifles commander played by Jeff Daniels the reason he fights. He's had enough of dukes, barons and plantation owners who dictate what we make and how we live and die. That's what slavery was about and that's why it finally had to die, in this country of all places.

We're at that point again. Those who suck the lifeblood out of society are finding we're on to their game. Again. A week ago I ran across a video of Bernie Madoff and his tech guru at a biz roundtable from 2007. The fascinating tidbit was Madoff admitting that the meat and potatoes of the big five brokerage houses was gone. Retail money from brokering stocks was kaput. The internet killed it. What other choice did they have to make the ever increasing amounts of the kind of cash it takes to prop up their balance sheets than to inflate bubbles and then suck the air out of them?

Those days are over. Reich is right. We're never going back to them. If you can't make a living adding value to this society then you don't deserve to make a living. It doesn't matter what you do for a living, what you think you need, or what you think you deserve. If you don't contribute to the common good as decided by the common man and woman, you're gonna have to start over.



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Reich is getting more nutso about this. So is Kruger.

You have a real life Mark, but even at TPM there are more revelations about the bonuses, the vacuous assets, the commodity computer games, ........

THIS MUST BE STOPPED.

Oh and someone I will not name, goes on and on about how we will lose the brightest minds and performers if we cut bonuses (or I assume go back to 90% taxation on obscene profits and 'earnings)

bullshit....

You even know at the county and municipal levels how bright some of our local business people are,how bright our local officials can be....

Like there are only 50 thousand people who can do the top jobs in this country. bullshit.

but i digress

ha. Thank you Mark for weighing in.

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If you can't make a living adding value to this society then you don't deserve to make a living. It doesn't matter what you do for a living, what you think you need, or what you think you deserve. If you don't contribute to the common good as decided by the common man and woman, you're gonna have to start over.

May it ever be so!

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thanks dickday I really loved this piece.

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Oh Dondi. But your blogs lately have rocked. ha!!

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Back in Athens and Rome, as well as for the Magna Carta, it went without saying who mattered. It was us Americans that got silly and started asking if those words meant what they said, thus suffrage, civil rights.

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YES, YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES.

I kind of ran out of room. I do digress a lot. ha

Yeah, a blacksmith has a son who is reading a Declaration of Independence. And he becomes the blacksmith. And he thinks he has rights. ha!!!

Spreads like a disease. Then they invent radio and TV and Cronkite tells us what 'is going on' in the world. ha

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I pledge an inkling to the web of the Intelligence Rebate for America.
And to the wise cybers wherever they scan,
one upshot understood, indie visible,
with affable undercurrents and all.

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There ya go. Had to read it three times.

Bloggers of the world unite. YOU GOT NOTHIN TO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE. HA!!

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Your blog is so inspired
I read it three times too!
Daylight on History! DDF.
:~)

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Wow... I just read that, strato! You are amazing!!!

Ok, if there were an award for best parodist, you would get it! :-)

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Excellent! Of course! Worth rereading. :-)

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Good afternoon TheraP. Hope all is well. Thank you for your complements. Always makes my day--for eight wonderful months, always makes my day. ha!!!

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All is not just well - it's wonderful!

I love seeing your posts rising to the top! Makes me very happy! So glad when I can make your day!

I have to get cracking and get some stuff posted - that I've got sitting in the buffer - so to speak. Over at the other two places...

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Bravo DD. Your excellence knows no bounds. I must say you've said a lot and got me to thinking. The revolution will not be televised but it will be electronic.

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HAAHA. Yes, we know it will be electronic.

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