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The First Thing We Do, Let's Kill All The Lawyers


I took a trip back to March of this year to review one of our best examples of outsourcing. The New York Times provided an in-depth story about juvenile justice in Pennsylvania. Once upon a time a personal injury skank attorney approached his buddy Conahan, a district court judge with an idea. He wanted to build his own juvie hall. Kind of like a private residential facility for naughty boys and naughty girls.


And coincidentally, Conahan's other best friend more or less ran his own juvenile court. Now they had a real triumvirate, truth, justice and the American way. But unlike the first Roman triumvirate where the third leg--Crassus--came up with the initial funding, these three mouseketeers were going to get their economic fix right from the government.

First, Judge Ciavarella put Mr. Powell in touch with a developer who also happened to be an old friend, Robert K. Mericle, to start work on finding a site. Then, in January 2002 -- the month Judge Conahan became president judge, giving him control of the courthouse budget -- he signed a secret deal with Mr. Powell, agreeing that the court would pay $1.3 million in annual rent, on top of the tens of millions of dollars that the county and the state would pay to house the delinquent juveniles. And by the end of that year, Judge Conahan had gotten rid of the competition by eliminating financing for the county detention center.

One whistleblower....Judge Chester B. Muroski, who sent a letter to county commissioners raising concerns about detention costs, only to be transferred days later to another court by Judge Conahan. "I knew something was wrong, but they silenced all dissent."

And the NYT added this:

When the county controller, Steve Flood, leaked a state audit that described the state's lease of the center as a "bad deal," the center's owner filed a "trade secrets" lawsuit against Mr. Flood, and Judge Conahan sealed the suit to limit other documents' getting out. His decision was later overturned.

Well the fix was in and the government contract came through and the trio was off and running. EVEN THOUGH THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAD BEEN WARNED.

Not only would they establish their own private jail, but cut off funding for their only real competition, the country run juvenile facilities. And this being the Country of Opportunity, especially under the greatest opportunists of all time--the 2002 Republican Government--the judges would be paid BASED UPON PRODUCTION. How much more American can you get?

The more naughty boys and girls sent to this fascist penal institution the more monies  these pricks would pocket. And the longer the sentences imposed, the bigger the bonuses.  So what kind of court did this President Judge (by the way, do you not love this term?) run anyway?

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers, relates Dick the Butcher in Henry the IV, Part Two. Well they could not kill the lawyers, but they could keep the little cherubs from getting one.

Cleveland.com reports that:

Under Pennsylvania law, a juvenile may not waive his right to an attorney unless the decision is made "knowingly, intelligently and voluntarily." The judge must also formally question defendants to make sure they understand their rights, something Ciavarella routinely did not do.

People, ask yourself this question: How in the hell can a thirteen year old boy, most often from the poorer classes knowingly, intelligently and voluntarily waive his right to trial?  How in the hell can that ever be the case?

Anybody who catches a Law & Order episode, understands how the system works.  The cop tells the 'detainee', hey you can get a lawyer. It's a free country is it not? Of course, you get an attorney and all deals are off the table. 

There are so many ways you can intimidate a suspect  But a thirteen year old arrested for being a look-out in a shoplifting scheme perpetrated against a local Walmart is an easy mark. And when the President Judge breaks the law by not giving the cherub his rights in open court, well...there is no chance that attorneys will screw up the process. Under Pennsylvania law, a juvenile may not waive his right to an attorney unless the decision is made "knowingly, intelligently and voluntarily." The judge must also formally question defendants to make sure they understand their rights, something Ciavarella routinely did not do.

Youths were routinely brought before Ciavarella without a lawyer, given hearings that lasted only a minute or two, and then sent to detention for offenses as minor as stealing change from cars and writing prank notes.(Cleveland.com)

What a machine was put in place. And the judges pocketed 2.6 million big ones, tax free. The idiots hid the money. But it is not that easy to hide this kind of money. So they took a tip from Randy 'Duke' Cunningham and got themselves a boat for $750,000.00.


Now like Capone, this dynamic duo plead guilty to tax evasion.  They will end up with prison sentences of around 7 years. See how important it is to get a gooooood lawyer?  Hell a crack addict in Pennsylvania on his third gig can get life.  THESE PEOPLE RUINED THE LIVES OF CHILDREN!!!! Seven fricking years. What the hell is the difference between these judges and white slavers?

The NYT in their March 26th report stated:

"The judge's whim is all that mattered in that courtroom," said Marsha Levick, the legal director of the Juvenile Law Center, a child advocacy organization in Philadelphia, which began raising concerns about the court to state authorities in 1999. "The law was basically irrelevant."

Oh, and the PI attorney. He is claiming he made the payments under duress. He claims the judges WERE EXTORTING HIM.  Hahahhahhahaha. He got a good lawyer.

There are people throughout the system who are under investigation or indictment. The ABA Journal of March, 2009 reports:

Even now, the newspaper writes, as an ongoing federal investigation of Luzerne County continues, those with whom the Times spoke are still intimidated. "Virtually all former colleagues and courthouse workers would not allow themselves to be identified because the federal investigation into the kickback scheme was ongoing, and they feared for their jobs if they alienated former allies of the judges."

All these people got some good lawyers too. And the attorneys said: SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTHS.

So what is the State of Pennsylvania left with as a result of this stunning example of out-sourcing?

Between 2003  and 2008, 2500 juveniles were sent to this private prison. It is estimated that 1200 of these kids never should have been sent to detention at all.

A Special Master was appointed by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania to come up with a plan. Naturally, some of the children have become adults. Expungement, or erasure of the juvenile record may be put into place. Naturally those in custody, the less violent offenders as they say, will be set free and their files closed.  This will all take time.

So what is the point of this post?  Maybe you can help me with it. It is difficult to make any point here clearly. But I will try.

If you or yours are ever accused of something, GET A GODDAMN LAWYER!!! The more goddamnable the better. (blesses himself twice)

OUTSOURCING OF PENAL SENTENCES SUCKS.

Learn something about your own local juvenile justice system. If the citizenry does not care about its juvenile justice system, THERE CAN BE NO JUSTICE.

Timesleader.Com http://www.timesleader.com/news/Juvenile_records_to_be_erased_03-27-2009.html

ABA Journal, http://www.timesleader.com/news/Juvenile_records_to_be_erased_03-27-2009.html

New York Times,  March 27, 2009 By IAN URBINA


Cleveland.com, March 26, 2009

Court Documents from Pennsylvania, tax evasion and wire fraud

Court Order http://www.pacourts.us/OpPosting/Supreme/out/81mm2008pco3.pdf


85 Comments

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Highly, highly, highly recommended post!!!!!

Thank you for uncovering this and for the links and for your justified anger above all else, Dickon.

This post needs to be rec'd to the top.

My thoughts and heart go out to the kids who suffered all this time, my God.

Thank you, Dickon.

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What a goddamnable mess LisB. (refuses to bless himself)

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Dickon.

With what money, dear one?

Lawyers cost $1,000s before they'll even talk to you.

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Bwak, are you saying that justice must be purchased? Well where or where did you get that idea? (wink wink, clink clink)

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Like the Catholic Church selling, er,

You know.

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Indulgences. Aint that a fifty dollar word. ha

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Ok, NOW you're outdoing yourself Dick! Excellent post. Learned alot here. Interesting to read especially after that CJ Roberts profile from the NYer. (If you haven't read that piece, the link's on TPM's front page, you should).

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I did Obey...at least I scanned it and felt nothing but disgust. I knew he was a fricking front for corporate fascism during the hearings. We might have been better off with the cleaning lady w wanted in there. ha. At least Meyers would have been incompetent.

We need four appointments from this President and Scalia to have a heart attack or something.

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yup, evil AND smart. The worst kind...

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The whole affair was so horrifying.

One girl got put in the juvie cash cow for saying not perfectly nice things about her Principal in A SPOOF.

At worst, Hillary Transue thought she might get a stern lecture when she appeared before a judge for building a spoof MySpace page mocking the assistant principal at her high school in Wilkes-Barre, Pa. She was a stellar student who had never been in trouble, and the page stated clearly at the bottom that it was just a joke.

These are very evil people.

Steven King and Peter Straub wrote about them in 1984.

1984. Whoa.

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Ack! It was the Ass-prinipal. Sorryyyyyy.....

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hahahahahahaha. Bwak. Yes, it is almost something you would see on the Sci Fi Channel.

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There is a long and interesting history of Mob related corruption in Northeastern PA. In many respects it originates in the efforts to gain power in the conflicts between the coal mine owners and the workers, starting with the infamous Molly McGuires. That intertwining of local politics and organized crime took a decided turn for the downright awful with this scheme to defraud juveniles of their freedom for profit. In a situation like this where the judges are in open collusion with the privatized penal facility, you may be f@#ked whatever you do, good lawyer, or not.

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Miguel, attorneys are good and evil, good and bad, competent and incompetent.

But over time, they only take so much sh.. Then they start calling around. Then they start talking to their friends on the Board of Commissioners, their state reps, other judges, some higher up in the chain.

When they are really pissed they make a call to the FBI.

Lawyers cause problems. But no money in juvie law.

Its a really ugly mess. I do not think we should ever outsource penal institutions.

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You might enjoy Kurt Vonnegut's novel 'Hocus Pocus', which has a major component involving outsourcing all US prisons to Japanese conglomerates. Outsourcing governmental functions was just an idea of the Republicans to transfer money to their cronies from the public coffers. It's not just the Rs either, as Luzerne county, PA is overwhelmingly a Democratic corner of the state.

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Yes I believe that Miguel. Growing government just made the repubs think: well if you cannot beat them make money off of it.

CROOKS

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Private prisons are big money. The entire drug war is this situation times a million.

The Civil Rights movement is not over yet.

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It is really scary Athabasca. All government money.
FOR WHAT?

Oh and thanks for taking the time and commenting. I do not recall reading you before.

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dd,

Just when I don't think you can hit it out of the park AGAIN!...

There it goes, over the fence and into orbit...

This is a subject that needs to be on the front page of every paper and blog - broadcast on all media. And you gave this topic a great intro here.

It is the weakest of us that suffers the most injustice. Lawyers are oft said to be a necessary evil - but without one these kids experience Hell up close and personal.

Great post.

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Thank you Auntie. It means a lot to me. Yes, we must, and I mean MUST review our penal system. A first step in reforming a real police state.

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Judges were being paid on commission for their convictions? The county would never suggest this sort of arrangement, but with privitized prisons, it is inevitable for them to perpetuate their revenue streams and increase profits. At our expense.

If you were not an attorney once I would agree with the title, but I seem to recall, after visiting Auschwitz, that was how Hitler started his purges. However, I would support a much tougher sentence in this situation. These judges and attorneys are so far from ignorant it is only possible to give them the benefit of the doubt when we doubt the loyalties and values of the judge in that trial too!.

The GOP has poisoned our legal system and it will take some time to clean things out. A good laxative ought to work.

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The Good Laxative. I do not like to do this on my own blog but Gregor, I hereby award you the Knightly Line of the Day Award for this here TPMCafe site, given to all of you from all of me.

And that takes nothing away from your own fine blog today!!!

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Oh, I do not deserve so much praise.

Thanks for this one too!!! :-{)>

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Oh yeah ya do. And more. You are one of my favorite bloggers here. I cannot wait until you blog or comment again. ha

You know Gregor. I spent decades spewing out my profanities, my hopes and my dreams. And I came to this site, quite by accident. And I found voices I wanted to hear. And I found ears that wanted to hear what I said.

Geeeez. I thought I was alone sometimes. hahahah

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Seriously, DD. I do appreciate your support.

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The point of your post. Frankly, dd, I'd tie it in to the federal govt's detention of people in Guantanamo. Halliburton built the place. cheney, I'm sure, gave them a no-bid contract. And cheney had made sure the govt paid bounties to get detainees, who to send to the govt funded prison, built by cheney's company! And it didn't even take a judge!

Now, that is the point of your post! Because we see in PA exactly the kind of thing we see in the federal govt.

Therefore, it's not lawyers, it's the overall failure to follow the rule of law. And it's trickling right down from the top!

How's that for theme to your post?

Of course we could enlarge it even more. But I think that gives you something to work with.

Yours truly, TheraP :-)

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P.S. I loved reading the post!

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See TheraP. I was moving in that direction but it got to be late and my reading went on and on and on.

You are the only one to really get my point here.

I got lost in the muck of it all. It is just sickening to see what two or three thugs can do when they have robes and money.

Thank you as always for chiming in. You always READ THE POST. HA

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I understand how easy it is to get caught in reading a lot of things and simply lose one's bearings. And yes, your posts I always read! You have a way with words. You can write up stories that everybody knows, but your way of doing it entirely personal. It grabs the reader. You riff off of it. You're entertaining and education all at the same time.

But no problem losing the thread. Cuz you bothered to wonder what was the point. And that gave me my cue! ;-)

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Holy excrement! Human beings will do the damndest things!?

There is a lot to look at with the treatment of juveniles. Some of it involves pharmaceutical companies and how we became a country using so many legal drugs and putting kids on drugs all over the place. I watched it with friends of my daughter... the teenage got in trouble and they got evaluated and put on drugs. Some of those drugs supposedly needed for life. A real money maker for the pharma industry.

But I agree, if you find yourself in need, get the best lawyer you can.

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HOLY EXCREMENT!!! Sync. You are sooooo goooood!! hahaha

This entire mess stinks in Penn and yet, what the hell is going on all over the country?

As always, thank you for taking the time to read my posts. You always add something.

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I haven't even read the post yet ... your title gave me the best laugh I've had in a while. :-)

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KGB you have me laughing. Everybody wants to kill the lawyers. But what about crooked judges?

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I happen to know of a local case, where the DA was sure he had an open and shut case. It was all over the papers. There was a hit and run death. And, to my mind, two strange reports by a driver who claimed to have seen the accident - first while "passing on the left" (when the pedestrian was hit on the right side of the road - at night - in a snowstorm). Next the story changed. The driver who "saw" the accident saw it in his rear view mirror (at night! in a snowstorm!) A witness nearby who'd seen the accident claimed it was a white car. The driver who claimed he saw the accident was driving a silver car. The accused was driving a dark blue car. Nevertheless, the accused was jailed - too poor to afford a lawyer. But someone who must be doing this pro bono took the case.

No DNA was found on the tires of the accused's car. Also, the lawyer had a forensic mechanic look over the car very carefully. And the mechanic saw no evidence whatsoever that the car had hit anyone or anything.

My belief all along was that the guy who was driving and claimed to "see" the accident was the real hit and run driver. But it's too late to look into that. Because the DA was sooooo sure he had nailed a young man, who was drunk.

And he's poor.

And mostly poor folks can't get a good lawyer. Unless they luck out!

This trial was postponed (due to an absence of DNA evidence). While the DA ships off the one hair found on the accused's tire. One hair! The state lab could not identify it. The DA is trying to save his skin, I think. (Mind you, the dead pedestrian's head was smashed. There's no way there would not have been a lot of evidence on those tires... cuz the car didn't get far from the scene.)

No reason to tell this tale. Except you can see what happens if you're poor. And you can see how easily the police settle on a story. Or how one person can frame another.

Our society is not an equal society. The rich get off. And the poor mostly go to jail.

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Yes. We all watch this damn CSI, like crime solving is a purely scientific thing and yet we think the earth is 6000 years old and global warming is some liberal conspiracy and...oh forget it!!.

NO WE SHALL NOT FORGET IT. WE WILL KEEP POINT IT OUT TILL HELL FREEZES OVER. HA

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Amen!!!

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Oh, see ... Now I'm glad I enjoyed the moment!

This just pisses me off again. Good catch, I saw it earlier today. Grrrrrr. Hopefully the ongoing investigation nets better results.

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No fan of lawyers here. They fall into the category of necessary evil but that's my jaded view.

Kind of like the 2nd amendment...right to bear an attorney.

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Corpiscator. First time I have met you. Welcome. Thank you for joining in.

Necessary evils, I am afraid.

Judges and juvenile courts are also necessary evils.

Right to bear attorneys. Great line. Really great line. hahahahaha

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Two posts on "shelter" today: LisB's heartwarming one on no-kill animal shelters, and this -- yours -- that breaks one's heart for the boys and girls whose spirits are killed in the system and facilities you describe. I honor your refusal to bless yourself in this instance.

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I was thinking of you Belle, that is why I added it. Ha!!

Yeah, I caught that when I read LisB today.

Gimme Shelter.

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LisB you are so sweeeeeeeeet. I love you with all my heart. I swear to god almighty. (blesses himself)

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Don't swear, Dickon....you were a church-going man. You just leave the swearing to me, luv. I'm a heathen, and I can get away with it without blessing meself. ;)

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Definitely a revealingly good post DD.

Doesn't your heart just sink when we keep getting proof every day at just how much our country has been deprived of the very quality that made us great?

"Justice for all"? Heh. (sob)

I guess our new national motto will be

"Suffering For Profit"

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Thanks Magie for reading this. We must separate the functions of government from those that we would leave to the private sphere, as it were.

How many other stories are out there reflecting injustice? In our country?

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Arthur, I swore off of lawyer jokes when I met you...Does this mean I can start telling them again?

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Yes Stilli. Of course. I miss you. Glad you dropped by. I have an entirely different life right now.

What a difference six or seven months make.

You are a real friend!!!

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I'm trying to get my life simplified a little so I can be here more often...getting the darlings on the same nap schedules will help! I'm working on it! I miss you, too! BTW, good post!

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Great post DD, but I must admit my favorite thing about it was the juxtapostion of titles from this post and the last one.

CIVILITY--- The First we do, Lets kill all the lawyers
OMG, I laughed my ass off.

I also thought your lawyerly advice is pretty damn well phrased too.
If you or yours are ever accused of something, GET A GODDAMN LAWYER!!! The more goddamnable the better. (blesses himself twice)

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Saladin, I have been looking all over for you, believe it or not. Thank you for dropping by. Quinn made some allusion to you and I lost it.

Thank you for dropping by. No kidding. hahahahahahaha

You make me laugh. Thank god almighty I have my bib and my depends on.

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Oh man this was an easy one you wrote all the funny stuff I just copied it. But I'll take it- as Picasso said: 'good artists borrow, but great artists steal'

Sorry to be a bit sparse of late, been out trying to eek a living in this day. I have only been
commenting when I have something to say.

Great post. Like Obey said above- I learned something new (and your writing always inspires).

P.S. I think Quinn just wanted to share a fun href=" http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/rutabaga_ridgepole/2009/05/happy-talk-from-the-white-hous.php#comment-3471192 ">bizaro link i had came across.

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Originality has been defined as the ability to conceal your sources.

I nicked that somewhere, long ago...

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These are the guys I want to try out my new Super-Enhanced Interrorgator Techniques on. I want they and their families beaten - ancestors and descendants both. And their friends and colleagues, who may have been infected through casual contact. And their old teachers, Scout leaders and Nuns - all of whom failed society. Hell, anyone that's ever shared a beer or a casual conversation with them - I want them all interrogated. Publicly. With crowbars. Across the small of the back.

A lot of these kids will never make it now, Dick. They'll have been running close to the line anyway, then have been hit with this brutally unfair treatment, and they'll have soured, or given up, or gotten mean. Lives lost, so these fuckers could have expensive watches. Some of these kids will likely even have taken their lives.

Where's that fucker Cheney when we need him, eh? Always off torturing the wrong guys. Can't even count on him to be usefully evil.

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You always have some very keen insight, Quinn. I concur, for what it's worth. A good beating of them might do me some good!

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Jesu Christe (Blesses himself)

Letterman's been doin' this spot where we all hear the groanin' and the screamin' down in the bowels of the whitehouse.

SEVEN FUCKIN' YEARS. WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?

See, I get so goddamn mad at this. Yes, I weep for those that are lost in this muddle. A look-out for a shop lifting ring.

You know I searched my soul and remembered as a fifteen year old my own episode of shoplifting at what is now known as a 7-11. I gave up after a week or so. I swiped cartons of cigs.

Who knows? Maybe I would have been caught and 'tried' in one of those two minute hearings and ended up a lawyer.

Oh geeeeeez, I ended up on the wrong side of the law anyway.

Ha.

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Our entire government actually works this way.

Not one thing ever happens in this country but where there isn't an explicitly defined piece whereby the unspoken quid pro quo is accommodated. This is how our system works and how people get elected (or appointed).

Politics and campaign finance are nothing less than legalized corruption. Does anyone really think that Madoff bilked investors of $50B without government looking the other way. The FBI raised a red flag way back in 2004 about the coming meltdown in the finance industry. Nothing happened. Except our government handed trillions of taxpayer dollars to banks.

Getting rid of lawyers, while not a bad idea, won't solve what ails this country. You'd have to wipe out our entire government and start over if you really hold any expectation of change. Until you completely isolate the obvious corruption of money in politics we are so fucked.

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TPC, howdy. I assume you read the latest at the SEC. Inside knowledge scams. Amazing stuff.

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DD,
I remember reading a recent piece about the SEC. Like I said the ENTIRE government. No exceptions. Ain't one of them ever gets elected without Wall Street $. Even though our system is obviously corrupt, if you ask a congressperson or senator they'll absolutely deny it and most likely rave about how fair and above board it is. Ain't one of them has an honest bone in their body. That they don't get it, even a little bit, gives you an inkling of how bad it really is. And Obama is a joke. He is no different and maybe even worse. Slick Willie in triplicate.

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How do you think this will all end - bad guy pay ... or sail off into the sunset?

Excellent post, as always, but if we kill all the lawyers, I'll miss you?

"It is interesting to note that criminals have multiplied of late, and lawyers have also; but I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

"There are two kinds of lawyers: those who know the law and those who know the judge."

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These are great quotes..."But I repeat myself." Hahaha

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Scary!

For those with a shorter attention span, Law and Order Criminal Intent did an episode on exactly this topic not long ago. Two or three weeks ago I believe.

It was another of their "ripped from the headlines" fastballs. Good TeeVee.

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Dang! I always do that! It was Special Victims not Criminal Intent...

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CL, there really are good writers with legal backgrounds writing some of these episodes for L & O.
There is truth in some of these scripts. Time is squished so there is always the element of pretend present in any legal episode. Defendants will rot in Rikers for months before trial and before 'deals' are put on the table.

But I digress as always. Thank you for chiming in Kitty.

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Sometimes it's the small-scale corruption that makes the blood really boil.

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Yes Rumpole. Three professionals cooked up the scheme. Three people who were supposed to set standards of conduct. That is all it took, along with a larger number of people who turned their heads.

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There's been only one occasion when I needed the services of a lawyer. Unknowingly, I picked the meanest S.O.B in the yellow pages. I did not like that man, dd. But, he did an excellent job and I got my satisfaction. I'd hire him again in a heartbeat. But, I still do not like him. ;o)

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Hahahahahahha. My point exactly. Oh Flower you have a way with words.

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Great post DD!!

My experience is that 70-75% of lawyers try to do things right, but 25-30% of bad apples is still way too high a percentage for the profession.

We had a smaller version of this juvenile detention problem in north central WV a few years back, but it has apparently been snuffed out since.

It is still awful hard keeping up with this kind of crap in other venues around here.

As of late, around here we have been calling these kind of folks "Cornpone Corleones" in deference to the hillbilly genre of mafioso type behavior coming out of our local and state governmental entities.

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Biker,thanks for dropping by. I wonder how long it took your local government to act. Hell that one organization had been complaining about this righteous judge for ten fricking years. And the felonies took place for five of them.

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Welcome to PA justice.

let us not for get that we vote for judges in PA, because popularity contests are the best way to choose jurists.

These guys didn't slide in through some political appointment (which may have actually required a bare minimum of vetting). These guys were the people's choice. :)

God bless democracy.

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Hey CD, Minnesota elects their judges. In the old days there was kind of an honor code. Judges would retire in the middle of their term. The governor would appoint someone to fill the vacancy.

And the judge would run, virtually unopposed.

Now campaign coffers must be filled. Too politicized? Well what is more politicized than U.S. Supreme Court.

There are many kinds of graft I suppose. Fixing parking tickets and selling children into slavery...are very different.

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This is by far the most interesting post I have read here. I don't keep up on politics (shame on me), so a lot of the posts I read are beyond me, but I do read them. I am becoming politically educated here.
My oldest son, now adult, was a juvenile offender. After reading your post, I am again grateful that we live in a small town and he was treated (maybe too) fairly. I can easily see how such treatment as those kids got could be an encouragement to criminality rather than a deterrant.
God knows, kids these days need all the encouragement they can get!

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Thank for that sweet compliment. And your personal message. Sometimes there is more of a community feeling in a smaller town like you say, a little more understanding.

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The suggestion, in Shakespeare's play, to kill all the lawyers was to be the first step in establishing anarchy. The fact that some judges and attorneys turn to crime and deserve the harshest punishment does not merit the simple, clichéd and immoral suggestion of killing people actually fighting the good fight.

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What'd the heck I do?

Signed,
Dorn76, Esq.

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Dorn, it was rhetorical--the title was rhetorical. That means that we only kill rhetorics. what?

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DD,
What say we organize a rally and march on Washington and make it a point to be sure and have your shotgun along for the walk and make sure it's loaded. I would just love it to see millions of people march on Washington with every fucking citizen carrying. I imagine they'd arrest us in spite of the fact that we have a right to do this. Or we did once upon a time anyway.

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TPC, I'd follow you anywhere. hahahaha But I will carry a sign.

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I guess that'll have to do DD. But I think that they need a bit of a stronger message. At the rate they're going it remains doubtful they'll ever get their heads out of their asses. Or if they do it'll be too late.

The current mess could have been avoided if in 2004 the FBI warnings were heeded. This is pretty bad. One of these days they'll screw up and the consequences will be far worse.

A lot of people died needlessly in Katrina because we had totally clueless people running things. The pattern repeats itself endlessly.

The irony of it is government keeps gathering more and more information about all manner of things and knows all sorts of stuff but because of conflicting interests that have not a thing to do with what is good for the country they are hamstrung to do anything to avoid the most obvious approaching catastrophe.

Bush was right about one thing in a certain way. Where it can be demonstrably established that people will come to harm unless they act premptively, the premptive action is warranted. In the case of our government it has become all too apparent that citizens need to take some premptive action to avoid having our government screw up and cause us all serious harm. Given all I've seen in my life I suspect it's just a matter of time before they really screw up in an unrecoverable way. And if history is any indicator they'll have known exactly what was coming but will still make all the wrong choices for all the wrong reasons.

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I'd like to hear all of you speak out against the orphans in care in NYC, who were used as guinea pigs, in AIDS vaccine trials at the Columbia University Pediatric AIDS Clinical Trials Unit. Infants and toddlers, many of which who didn't have the disease, were treated worse than lab rats, and most if not all sickened and died, poisoned by extremely strong medications. It was hushed up, until it was exposed, but even then, the elitist establishment attacked those who spoke out, even the Village Voice slandered those who spoke out.

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MM232,

I didn't know anything about that but the way you shared it seemed to carry some sarcasm as if we wouldn't speak out against such a thing. Doesn't make sense to me that people would not be outraged about such a thing if you've got your facts right. I suggest you write a post about it if you feel passiontely about it.

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When did this go on? Do you have a link we can take a look at?

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I agree that kids and really everyone facing charges and finding themselves in the criminal justice system should seriously consider retaining a good attorney. It's extremely unfortunate that the judges' decisions to lock up approximately 1200 of our youth often for petty offenses and status offenses were not more seriously questioned or challenged at the time the sentences were imposed.

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NJin, thank you for commenting. If lawyers were present in that courtroom day after day, voices would have been heard. If nothing else, a couple attorneys would have had a lunch with a Supreme Court Justice (state) or the Governor or something. At least that is my belief. One and two minute hearings, to decide a life's course for a thirteen year old shoplifter. ha.

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dickday

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  • Location Virginia, MN
  • Party Democrat
  • Politics Fabian Socialist

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  • Favorite Blogs huffington post Slate
  • Favorite Books Le Morte D'Artur, Justice at Nuremburg, Heroditus' An History, Foote's Civil War, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and of Shaw's plays
  • Favorite Quotes A horse is a horse of course, of course -- a matter of strategery-- all men are created equal,

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retired atty crotchety old man

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