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CANONS OF ETHICS ON THE WEB: THE CASE OF THE AD HOMINEM ATTACK


When I was a kid in the fifties there were certain truths, truths that could never be questioned.

The Pope was God's representative on Earth and he should never be questioned even if he spent a lot of time wearing dresses and funny hats and carrying this staff that was too big to really act as a cane.

Communism was the bane of all mankind. It was a totally arian land where young children would report their parent's activities to the authorities.

If there could be a one party system, it must be the Democratic Party. Hubert Humphrey was the new Moses.  The republicans were the party of the rich and shameless.

You could only be a comedian if you were Jewish, Irish or Italian.

Like the other rules, the comedian rule was to be unquestioned.

I watch this Italian comic whenever I can. Like most other celebrities, I never remember his name.  He has this great routine. He does a dialogue that goes something like this:

Tom:    Bobby, why are you wearing that ugly jacket. And what were you doing with MY     SISTER last night and where is that 30 bucks you owe me?

Bobby: Tommy, you are nothing but a goddamnable lying sack of sh... although I do no mean that in a bad way and your sister could be mistaken for a dairy cow ...and I really do not mean that to be taken in any malevolent manner and what 30 bucks are you talking about anyway? If brains were oatmeal, your cranium would not hold enough sustenance to keep an ant busy for an hour although I mean this in only the most positive light.   And further, your mother looks like a hooker who could not work on the street because  no one wants his 66 olds tainted by the odor; now I don't really mean all this in a bad  way Tommy so don't take any of this the wrong manner, take it in the manner in which it is offered.

And now it really is time for oddball. I mean some real oddballs, as we examine one more of the


                CANONS OF ETHICS IN THE WEBNETBLOGOSPHERE:

                         THE CASE OF THE AD HOMINEM ATTACK


8. Be courteous. There will be moments of passion when things are said in anger. If you must attack, target the idea or the opinion -- but NEVER the person. Personal attacks are useless, tend to escalate hostilities and ruin the reading experience for everyone else. Such comments, even if isolated, are subject to deletion. An ongoing pattern of persistent violations will result in blocked access.

We again must thank old Craig Crawford and Trail Mix as we begin to examine this universal rule of decorum in the Netwebblogosphere. Let us take some examples from recent comments at TPMC. We will start with Face in the Crowd who recently made this comment on a blog appearing at our café. The blogger does not appear to like our New President nor Jewish people nor others of a different color than him.  Face took a scientific approach to this perspective:


"You nice folk go on talking, I'll deal with xxxx DICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEAD DICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEAD DICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEAD DICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEAD DICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEADDICKHEAD

Now some may think that this is an attack at the personage, so to speak of this unnamed blogger.

But in the outer world, there is an outer world out there you know. I mean sometimes I go to the grocery store and the tobacco store and other places of business. There are people driving cars on the roads and everything. In fact, I just found out there are 41 senators in the repub party.  Spector from Penn is considering running as an independent but caucusing with the repubs in 2010. He said he wants to be more like Liberman. What a model to follow. At any rate how do some politicians fare with this rule in the blog:

"Follow the Japanese model... resign, or go commit suicide."

-- Sen. Charles Grassley (R-IA), quoted by the Washington Post, on AIG executives who took bonuses despite a massive government bailout.

An aide later explained the senator does not actually want executives to kill themselves.
(Thanks to Taegan Goddard)
 
Well, here is an example of handling the ad personam argument that my Italian comic would admire.  What Grassley appears to be saying is:


Go and kill yourselves immediately, but I do not mean this in a bad way.

Now if Face would have cleared up his comment like this, he would have been within the rules as defined by Grassley.


DICKHEAD, DICKHEAD, DICKHEAD...of course I do not mean this in a bad way.   


But let us take a look at rush, my favorite limbo or limbog or however he spells his name. Here is a man who knows what ad personam really means.

 Limbaugh is "sure" threats to AIG execs were made by "deranged leftists from the Democrat blogs" because "they're the ones that hate capitalists" Media Matters.

Now all rush had to say was that all critics of the bonuses are deranged leftists from Democratic Blogs who hate capitalists, but I do not mean that in a bad way.  And then everything would have been ok. The following is right from Media Matters.


    * Responding to a Reuters report on a University of Chicago study that found that "a majority of young blacks feel alienated form today's government," Limbaugh asserted on February 5, 2007: "Why would that be? The government's been taking care of them their whole lives."

Again, all rush would have had to do was add a sentence at the end like: But I did not mean that in a bad way.

    * Discussing Nancy Pelosi's (D-CA) speech following her election as the country's first female speaker of the House, Limbaugh stated on January 5, 2007: "[L]ook at Ms. Pelosi. Why, she can multitask. She can breastfeed, she can clip her toenails, she can direct the House, all while the kids are sitting on her lap at the same time."

Again: but I did not mean that in a bad way.

    * Limbaugh has made numerous controversial remarks about women, including frequently referring to feminists as "feminazis." For example, on the November 30, 2006, edition of his radio show, Limbaugh proclaimed: My "cat's taught me more about women, than anything my whole life" because his pet cat "comes to me when she wants to be fed," and "[s]he's smart enough to know she can't feed herself. She's actually [a] very smart cat. She gets loved. She gets adoration. She gets petted. She gets fed. And she doesn't have to do anything for it."

Finally he should have ended with: I did not mean that in a bad way.

And only just recently, rush has wondered why some women are mad at him. I mean he has 100 million dollars, and mansions, a millions of people listen to him and he even shows them
his Viagra from time to time. What more would a woman want?

We must all see how best to incorporate Canon #8 into our everyday lives and I welcome your ideas.

No cats were harmed in the making of this blog. Oh, and please keep your comments under 75,000 characters.




 

66 Comments

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dd, Rusbo needs to meet this cat.

Rush the Limp thinks that in his women-cat analogy --women, like the cats he's encountered, only require being fed, petted and they should love him, no? And the last line is that cats, like women, don't have to do much. Well, I beg to differ from these pathetic views of Big Pharma. Like, freaking seriously. Those women had to deal with El Rushbo in his oxycontin haze, apart from being married to him and contending with him in the full "glory" of the "duties" he no doubt required of them for being in such a relationships with him. Ewwww!

El Rushbo may think of that as a small price, but I assure you, it is a huge price.

Sorry to be so cruel, but he was probably spewing that stuff on air while in an altered mental state, confusion, anxiety, paranoia induced from being in an oxycontin haze. But did the shithead learn anything after he supposedly cleaned up? Effing no! Well, ok. Now he wants to woo women. Whoa, fella. Slow down and smell a shoe better yet, walk a mile in it. Like, seriously. And I don’t mean it in a bad way. Heh. ;)

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Yva, It was so funny when he was 'with' that health/exercise nut. Remember, he slimmed down. Built up some muscle. Well she had had it with him after a year or whatever. Now he is fatter than he was when he started out.

I used to muse that she would be standing over him at 5AM, you know GET UP, TIME TO WORK OUT!!

So we know he was controlled for a short period of time anyway.

Rush the Limp. There really is something behind this repub need for Viagra is there not?

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One more – Rushbo is wrong about how cats react to him. It is an insult to all cats in time and space to say that cats react to him nicely. What they are really feeling inside is this.
Rush is no no cat herder.

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Herding did not work Yva but the 'snarly' cat did.

I mean he actually wonders why women do not like him.

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Brilliant, Yva -- cat herders.

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The southern way has its charm:

"Rush, bless his heart, is just a heap of bear scat."

BTW, better to be a dickhead than an asshole.

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I do like the southern charm from time to time. Bear scat. That is pretty good. dickhead kind of hits too close to home, so to speak.

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Tom, that is brilliant! :)

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Well now. Aye cain't tell yew 'bout bayareskat, but aye cain tell yew
'bout herdin' cats -- eets whut aye dew awl day longue. And it is hawrd, hawrd werk; yet, as hawrd as it is, not so hawrd as bein' close to Rush Limpaw. "Just sayin'."

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See, rush is the best example for not believing in evolution that I can think of. I mean its one thing to put prepositions at the end of sentences, it is another to make the human race seem base.

hahahha. So anyway, herdin cats is harder work than rush portrays.

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dick - I find the republicans reinforce my belief in evolutionary determinism. I mean, at some point someone dubbed their ancestors "Slimebaghe", "Boner", "Crapo", "McConAll", etc., FOR A REASON. And here we have their descendents still very deserving of those names. Same for democrats - "Finegold" - boy does that guy deserve his name!

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I missed this. Are you saying that evolution can only be discussed in the context of individual 'threads'. hahhahaaha

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hahah. the pug loves a good pun.

So much more to say about repug evolution, but best kept for the thread on ad speciem attacks. Quite irrelevent to the discussion of homini...

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Ack! that should be 'repuB' evolution. yikes...

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Obey you have a life, but I am trying to do a blog with a picture and I cannot get it into the text. it is driving me nuts. I tried to hang myself but the ceiling is less than a foot over my head. and the hook keeps falling out.

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Dick I've only just figured this out, I'm writing up instructions on my last dead thread so I don't ruin this one. Give me five minutes...

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Dick - here are some instructions to get you started. Go straight to #14 if you have trouble...

Eds and Saladin helped me out with this stuff here">http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/obey/2009/02/le-mot-du-jour.php">here.

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Eight hours to get one damn picture and I had to play between what you said and what eds said. And the issue will be whether I can do it again.

hahahahahahahahaha.

And these other people are putting in movies and god knows what.

Thank you. I had three pictures I wanted. I just took the one. I could not do this post without a picture.hahhahaahahahahaha

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glad to hear it worked out eventually. :0)

(it'll get easier next time...)

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Hmmm. I'm usually against 'ass hominem' attacks as it's seldom productive. But for Rush, I'll make an exception. Also, Ann Coulter and Dick Cheney. Oh, now that I think of it, the list is
too long.

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I got lazy Auntie. I was going to just demonstrate that these ad hominem attacks that blogs are suffering from mirror the big time journalists and pols. I have actually done a few blogs on rush here, months ago and believe it not, trolls came by to attack me. They found me through threads as if I were writing for Newsweek or something.I told them to eat my shorts.

I just came across this nice list of filth from media matters and that was that. What a monster.

But I think he and coulter and cheney and sean and glenn and these others demonstrate that the micro blogs are simply emulating the macro.

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The problem with so many ad hominem attacks is that they are so terribly unfair. For example, some in a comment elsewhere in the Cafe called Rush Limbaugh a fat stinking turd.
This is terribly unfair---to turds. So,
in my capacity as recording secretary for S.P.I.T. (Society for the Prevention of Insults to Turds), let me remind people that turds

A. generally are quiet and well behaved. Don't blame the noise of flatulence on them.
B. Replenish the soil...note how lush the grass grows around places where Fido has placed them so carefully.
C. Have been digesting and recycling natural products since time immemorial.
D. Serve the body by scouring it for impurities, then taking them with them when they leave.

Rush Limbaugh is NOT a turd.

A. He's anything but quiet and well behaved.

B. He creates a wasteland wherever he appears--note the absence of fertile ideas on the stations carrying his show.

C. He cannot digest the truth and return it to the world improved.

D. He poisons the body politic with constipation of thought and diarrhea of toxic and venomous words.

So, in the name of decency and fairness. Do not compare turds to Rush Limbaugh. It is cruel and unfair to them.

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Amike, this is really fine. I am saving this. hahahhaha. Sleepin was saying that putting bankers with snakes was unfair to snakes. haaa this tops that. Next I see Sleepin I am sendin him here.

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Jeez, amike. You really know your turds. But if Rush is not a turd, what is he? In your humble non-turd opinion, I mean.

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Foist, Second Toid. Amike is pretty funny guy, huh?

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I've given this serious thought. It is not easy to come up with a comparison which would not be a slur on the object to which he is compared. Not coming up with one, I've really decided that he is unique and as such should become the object against which other things are measured. So here's my proposal: plate him in platinum (well, maybe tinfoil would work well enough), ship him off to Paris (wouldn't being in France raise his blood pressure a few points?) to the bureau international des poids et Mesures http://www.bipm.org/en/home/ where he can perform a useful service as the international standard for vile, ignorant, and crude huffery-puffery. Then everything else can be measured in terms of Limbaughs. Anne Colter = .95 Limbbaughs. Faux News = 1.03 Limbaughs. Limbaugh's base = .5 Limbaughs collectively. And so on.

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You know, I was having a crappy morning until I read this, amike. Jason is right. This needs to be its own blog! Absofreakinlutely.

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Pretty good huh?

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That's freaking hilarious. This needs to be a blog post.

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Sadly, I used up all of my ad hominem attacks and haven't been to the store to buy more.

As a reader and non-combatant, ad homs can be quite fun to read as long as you're not the intended target.

One note on the "comedians being only Italian, Irish or Jewish..." (and I only bring this up because I have been focused on "our great national discussion on race" for most of the day)... true, if you were watching television during those formative years when Ed Sullivan or Jackie Gleason ruled the airwaves and black entertainers made, well, token appearances. Anyhoo... back to the subject at hand, the ad hominem attack, which as we all know is quite different than the ad hominy attack which involves throwing the lye-soaked kernels of corny goodness at your opponent, which of course is where the saying, "Well, kiss my grits! (or Pog Mo Grithoin! in Gaelic) originated. (Please be aware that pronunciation is everything and Pog Mo Groin has an entirely different meaning.)

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Boy am I glad you are a noncombatant. I'd hate to see the combatant in you! ;)

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ROTFL, Jade. You have a way with woids.

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My father was the most vocal racists I ever heard as a child growing up in the North. He died when I was twelve. TV, in the fifties, as you well know had nothing except I remember Jack Benny's butler or man friend or whatever and Amos and Andy.

Of course, I was too young to really understand what Dad was talking about until just before he died.

People make fun of PC, but it was a strong propaganda mechanism which had a great affect upon my generation. In the North, it was Lincoln. The South was wrong. The Declaration of Independence was paramount.

It was still 'All MEN are created equal' but I never heard the 'N' word outside the house. I remember yelling at some kid using the word when I was about fifteen.

So there was blatant racism on my black and white tv, but really only sins of omission, no sins of commission. The N word could not be used on tv where I was, nor on the radio.

It was a strange world growing up in an all white suburb in the fifties. Strange. You do not know anything else. But at school, racism was a bad thing. That was what was taught.

Jade, I am just commenting from personal standpoint. As I reached my teens in the 60's when the issue of race, as it were was exploding on the screen, I was screaming at the tv with regard to segregation. It went against everything I was being taught in the northern suburban schools.

What the hell made me go on and on about this?

Ad Hominy argument is superb, Jade and I am writing that in my secret bible next to my computer.


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Understand that I was merely observing that the phrase in question reflects "the way we were" during those formative years. Certainly not an attack.

You see, the world as you saw it then (and in many ways, the world as it remains today) reflected your culture as the norm, but on the other side, for black Americans, it was a real "coup d'etat" when one of "ours" got booked on one of "your" shows. That was a time when there were "real Americans" or "real comedians" or "real singers" and then there was race music, race comedians, and those other people who inhabit "our" country and try to go to "our" schools and such... But I know you were not trying to make political point, it just stood out to me because of other factors.

But that digresses from the importance of honing one's skills with the ad hominem attack. For example, "Rumor has it that you, Senator, are an openly practicing, unrepentant heterosexual! What say you to that?" Or you can resort to the simpler, "Ya muddah wears combat boots!"

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very good, very fine as Master Rumpole puts it. Hahahahaahha.

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I'm sorry I had been so busy at my blog that I had not noticed this... till now. But good thing! Because tomorrow is the List the Lies and Liars blog. And I intend to link to you, in case anyone needs advice as to how to refer to these low-down, liars - not that I mean anything bad by that.

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Dont apologize, I'm fine. If I stay on the first page I am happy. And yes, I will be here. Perhaps a couple of walks.

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you're a flaming comedian and that alone proves your post is full of compost complement. What a loser!

Is that ad hominem if on the weak side?


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I wonder what the real definition is. I find it vague.

You tell me, w did not even consider invading Iraq until shortly after 9/11/01.

Now I call you a liar. That has now become an ad hominem attack. Instead of keeping my eye on the issue, instead of quoting Clinton, O'Neill, and three or four other 'witnesses', I have simply called you a liar.

Happens all the time, cable, web.

As soon as you say: loser; I think that becomes ad hominem. At least the 'liar' is somehow attached to the issue. Loser is not attached to the issue.

Context is real important also.

Again, as I stated in another comment, the micro web site is simply reflecting the behavior of those on the macro level.

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"liar" is also ad hominem fallacy, if it is not accompanied by a rational addition (such as showing the alleged lie). Also "liar" implies a pattern of lying. That is more complicated, a bad track record doesn't make the current instance a lie, but we should not ignore track records either.

There are many formal fallacies, and one could argue whether a given instance is more X or Y fallacy. But what counts is not doing either, in my view (I try to speak truth to power, power uses fallacies to [try to] win arguments/something).

The ad hominem is not in "loser" alone, it is in trying to deny your point or position based on an attack on you, thus "you're a flaming comedian" is the first personal attack, and so "you're" is the first wave of the assault on reason in the demo.

The line between fallacy and subtle probe is often if not always indefinite. That is, sometimes "fallibility and reflexivity" (stolen from Soros) leave room for interpretation based on good, or bad, will!

:-)


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Yes, I agree most whole heartedly as Jason might say. That was my discussion with 'M' today (Havethought will travel)

It is not that clear a line. But some, including me at times, are not even attempting to keep the discussion 'clean'.

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Wonderful piece, as always, Dick!

Just on the subject of civil discourse: one of my quite close relatives (nothing genetic - through marriage) is high placed in management at a rather infamous corporation. (I'd prefer it stays anonymous, but it involves a K and a B and an R, and a three letter name.) He is honestly one of the most lovable people I know. And he is great company around the holiday occasions we run into each other. I've got to admit that I haven't really followed the various scandals his company is involved in, but I can't really help myself, and I bring up the various rape and fraud charges lobbed at them, I'm just curious, and it makes for interesting after-dinner conversation. Yet for some reason he takes it personally. Like I was attacking him. Like they are 'unfair questions'. And for some reason my sister keeps kicking me under the table once I start. Anyway, just a random thought about how hard it is to find the boundary between ad hominem attacks and innocent questions. I guess the 'ad' is in the eye of the hominem...

ps. If anyone has good questions for me to ask, please contact me at this comment.

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Did this KBR thingamagig have a brother Hal and blackwater at one time until they divorced and went to Dubai and those islands that have corporate bank accounts?

Do you know anyone still there that I could write to and pick up an extra twenty bucks to stay silent?
I am a little short this week end.

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Dick, I would give you the number, but I gather from my relations there that they have a policy of not negotiating with terrorists. They're more likely just to ship you (and me, for that matter) off to a black site in Afghanistan, where you won't have internet access, I'm afraid. or pyjamas for that matter.

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LOL, interesting topic. I once said to someone on a blog, either you don't read or can't comprehend what you're reading. You would have thought, I'd dropped a 50 ton "F" bomb. The fact is, I wasn't trying to be mean. I notice many people don't read post, they scan them. I'm guilty of it myself at times. If he was reading, but still missing obvious crucial points, I think questioning his comprehension skills was valid. Ok, maybe I was going for the snark factor but I wasn't deliberately being mean....hahahahaha

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Yes, you can move over to the dark side, make an ad hominem statement and not really realize you are doing it. Your intent was not to slam the other person.

I scan all the time. Other times, I am captivated and keep reading and the time flies. I start thinking I am important and boooooom, I either hurt somebody's feelings or I looked like a jerk

On the other hand, every time I write something I am sticking my neck out. Will someone like it. Or will I be shunned or criticized. All these things play in my mind. But, the risk, even the little risk here, is kind of an energetic force. Without risk there would be no fun!!!

And it is fun reading you M. And your point is one of the more serious ones that this rule is addressing.

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Thanks DD. Not everyone gets me. It's nice to know there is someone out there with a mind as warped as mine...LOL

It's really difficult sometimes to be yourself, while at the same time protecting the feelings of adults. I specifically use adults because, I have a really bad habit of assuming, being an adult automatically means you're secure in who you are. Confidence plays a major role in how we react to these attacks.

There are many reasons why ad hominem attacks happen but I suspect, looking at life through our own personal perspective, as oppose to the perspective of others, plays a factor in this phenomenon.

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I've always wondered what it would be like if Rush Limbaugh were the male contestant on "The Bachelor." Would all the women leave before he even gets to know ONE of them?

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He is just disgusting Super. He was disgusting when he started out and he is disgusting now.

But women are going to go for a man with 100 mill.
Not all women. But many women.

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Arthur, that is vomitously true...As a woman it is hard for me to say that, but for more than a few women, money (read "security") is so important that men like Rush have no problem hooking up.

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Oh Stilli, how we all missed you. Hope you were having fun. rush just represents an America that is slowly fading, I hope.

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I've been trying to pretend that I am a normal person who can just live life w/o paying attention to what is going on...reverting to the old me. But, who am I kidding? I'm not that person anymore, although a few days of ignoring the world was somewhat pleasant. I'm back and pissed...

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Dick, Kate Nash has a wonderful song called D******d.

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Hi KateO. How is it goin? Good to see you and thanks for droppin by.

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Things are good, very busy these days so not a lot of time to write. I check in to read a couple of times a week. Your entries are always a good read. Thanks.

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I don't think I can give up the ad hominem attacks - they're just too... cathartic. Especially when I'm making a point about or arguing a position within a subject I know nothing about. Love it. And... hey... to all those I flame... it's nothing personal. Remember that. You're just collateral damage in my own little swatch of contested terrain.

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The little creature that sits on my other shoulder wanted me to express his gratitude for your point of view. He says, "the little devil in all of us, need love too!"

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You have a creature on your shoulder? So do I! It's an imp. And sometimes the imp must have it's way! (usually after that, I can rewrite before I publish!)

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hahahahahaha. Nice touch TheraP.

I have been working on something for 8 hours. Just trying to get one picture on a new post.

It will probably only take me four the next time.

I am cleaning up and will run to your blog.

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I understand. As long as I'm writing I can control him. In person, I'm not always as disciplined and the imp takes over. He hates blogging. LOL

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Curt, the Collateral Damage King!!!!

hahahahaha

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Worst personal attack I ever got? Guy on the playground says to me,

"Your Mother... had YOU."

Now considering how low this guy thought I was, the clearer it became that this was a vicious slur on my Mother.

And then, that in stooping so low in his insult to her, I realized he must have actually thought even LESS of me than I'd imagined.

Which in turn.... Well, you can see the vicious circle he'd created.

If he was still alive, I'd ask him how he came up with that amazing piece of ad hominem.

Tragic, really. So much talent, lost so young. My knuckles still ache whenever I think of him.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sometimes you do render me speechless, or keyless or something. The fellow did have a philosophical slant there however.

How tragic, he could have spent thirty or forty years boring freshmen to an extent that has yet been unheard of.

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You make my day, I really need a life. I mean that in the nicest possible way of course:)

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Brilliant. . .and I really do mean that in a good way.

I'm a newbie here, and I may just have to lurk for a while--or make simplistic, buttering-up comments. I hate it when I find people smarter than me.

(Not that I really mean "hate". . .)

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Oh I just glanced at your post and I am going back to look at it again. There are really fine blogs here. Peeps who have a real grasp of the tech and a good grasp of how to make an argument. I am more light hearted, snarky?, satirical, and full of it.
hahahahahha

Thank you for the kind words. After five months or so, I am still considered a newbie. everything is relative.

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  • Location Virginia, MN
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