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WSJ-THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH


The Wall Street Journal is making a right wing argument against investigating or charging anybody, anywhere for illegal torture. At least anyone on our side. I wish to analyze their arguments.  Anyone is free to respond if they feel I have characterized incorrectly what WSJ is actually saying.

THE PROBLEM

WSJ notes that Leon Panetta has been nominated to head the CIA and that Dennis  Blair will be the new Director of National Intelligence and that they "...will soon have to decide if they want to join the left-wing crusade to purge their agencies of anyone who had anything to do with "torture." ... at their nomination hearings they're likely to be asked to support a "truth commission" on the Bush Administration's terrorist interrogation policies. We hope they have the good sense to resist. And if they need any reason to push back, they could start by noting the Members of Congress who would be on the witness list to raise their right hands."

So the WSJ does not want us to join a left wing crusade. So that must mean that WSJ is sure that right wing crusades would never be against torture. At any rate, the way I read this, if the left-wing is against something, that something must be awfully good.

The WSJ is against any truth commission.  I take that to mean that the WSJ is against finding out the truth with regard to torture.  To me this means that WSJ thinks there is some truth out there that would be discovered through a commission and that these truths would demonstrate that there has been torture.  And that the torture would have been illegal, because if it was legal torture then there would be no problems with the truth getting out.

After all the WSJ has been around for a long time, it employs good reporters, it gets 'inside information' at times and it has some information about illegal torture.

It also seems clear that WSJ does not wish to purge or fire anyone who had anything to do with torture.  At this point it seems real clear to me that WSJ wishes to keep on the government payroll, anyone who did have anything to do with torture.

At the nomination hearings the WSJ would like the nominees to somehow challenge the Committee members to 'raise their hands' if they had anything to do with illegal torture. Now, to paraphrase Will Rogers, all I know is what I read in the 'papers' (like WSJ) and what I see on CSPAN. And I have witnesse many, many Congressional hearings and nomination hearings.  Mainly because I have not had a life for years and it gives me something to do.The witnesses are always asked to raise THEIR hands.  Not the members of the Committee.

I have also noted that some sort of deference is given to Committee Members as they ask the questions.  Sometimes a witness might ask for clarification.  That is, request that the Member either rephrase the question or elaborate upon the question a little more. The witness indicating that he or she just does not understand what information the interrogatore is trying to elicit.

Witnesses usually say things like please and thankyou at these hearings.  Sometimes they ask for a couple of minutes to consult with their attorneys.  The witness will say something like:

"If it would be alright with the Senator, I would like the opportunity to discuss this matter with my attorney to find out whether or not I could be prosecuted later on for the answer I am intending to give to the question at this particular time."

The the witness consults with the attorney.  Sometimes he or she will cry, openly weep and then answer to posit that he or she would not particularly enjoy being a witness against himself or herself.

It is a rare thing for a witness to say things like:  What the hell are you asking? or What gives you the right to ask me a question like that? or Before I answer that question I would demand that every member of this Committee who knows something about this subject to raise their hands.

Retorts like this rarely happen.  Now I assume that if a nominee appears at a hearing, he would like to get the job.  Otherwise he would skip the entire process.  So it might not be in the nominee's best interest to say things like:

A TRUTH COMMISSION, WHO ARE YOU KIDDING, YOU CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH.

The individual would never be approved for the job.

The other problem I see is that WSJ is not demanding that any lowly soldier who is now in prison for illegal torture should be released and given back his or her job.  It would only seem fair that if those who are currently employed by our government who did perpetrate illegal torture should retain their jobs and not go to prison, that those who have been convicted should receive the same treatment.

I think I will stop here because I have already raised many issues that arise from only one or two paragraphs of the WSJ article.  I will come back to this article at a later date.

16 Comments

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Didn't you know that desk jockeys aren't sacrificed on the altar of public disapproval? Just peons. :o)

And women. I am still rankled about the gender-specific fallout over abu-ghraib.

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This noise from the right is really interesting to me. The rest of the article just rants, which demonstrates fear, real fear.

WSJ knows damn well what a real investigation is going to show. And there will be several of them.
It is the fear that tells me that a lot of information is going to come out and all the Reps can do is point to a handful of Dems when they were in the minority.

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Well said DD. We'll be seeing the rats scrambling for cover for some time to come now that the new administration is about to assume office. It will go a long way toward restoring our credibility to the world if we actually get the stomach to air our dirty secrets.

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Miguel, we will. Like I told GCO, there is some real pain under all this fluff. Guys like Feingold are not going to let this go and I have a better feeling toward Leahy, also. Webb. So many powerful people are really going to be able to hold some sway.

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It seems to me Obama is willing to go anywhere and discuss anything, without preconditions.

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Yes Gregor, and I hope that is the case. I see that in Obama also. Instead of: do not got there.

I do see him responding: Well, what about that, Penetta? What about that Clinton? What do you think Joe B.? Lets get the Labor Sec on the phone.

This is really how I dream it will happen and is already happening.

We can only hope.

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It's not the first time that the WSJ has addressed this topic. They spoke about Carl Levin and waterboarding before Christmas. Pls read the link below.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122964985803120513.html


I don't think they're saying that they don't want to find out "the truth". They feel that they already have a handle on the truth. But they are saying that there having been numerous investigations in recent years and none found the Administration "condoned or tolerated detainee abuse". Their view is that we were in a different time where we were very worried about another attack on US soil. Certain members of Congress were fully briefed on the interrogation methods. Eric Holder was saying that terrorists didn't qualify for Geneva protections, etc.

The part I do agree with the WSJ about is that I think the entire nation was very tense and anxious to do whatever was necessary back in 2001, 2002 and 2003. But somehow I think people have a short memory and now just want to hang Bush.

PS - I do commend you that you at least read the WSJ. It's unfortunate that both the WSJ and NYT are both so slanted in one direction. But I admire left-wingers who don't just read stuff that they already agree with.

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Thank you MCB but there is a problem here. What problem could an independent truth investigation cause. I am a citizen and I have a right to know what went on over eight years, eight long years where documents were not made available by the illegal use of exec. priv., by destruction of documents as well as emails and by withholding testimony. Sometimes never even answering subpoenas lawfully issued from the legislative branch. No the investigations will go on regardless of what the WSJ desires or the right wing think tanks, for that matter. They will go on, evidence will be adduced and people are going to go to jail.

That is a fact. And the reason I know this is going to happen is because WSJ is demonstrating fear. And if you think the left wing is worried about some people on the sidelines being hurt, we do not worry about that at all. The days of Bolton, and Yoo and Feith getting paid to lie on cable and in newspapers is coming to an end.

The fear is real out there. Or stupid paragraphs like the ones written by WSJ would never have been crafted.

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Ignoring the rule of law because of the "different times" is truly a pathetic excuse to abandon principles.

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I did not detect any fear in the article. We'll just have to mark our calendars for a year from now and see how things turn out.

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Fair enough.

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You, Double D, should be making big bucks writing for SNL or maybe the Onion! You always find a way to make me laugh - even when it's a serious subject.

I didn't read the WSJ article. But it was a joy to read your post!

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There you are. My favorite TheraP. And that was only from two paragraphs. TheraP, I keep saying it but these people are scared and that is a good sign for the GOOD SIDE.

Thank you.

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Yes. They scared the country for long enough. 'Bout time they got scared themselves, I'd say. They should be scared. For all the mayhem they've caused. It boggles the mind!

Well.... long day tomorrow. So I'd better turn in.

Peace. And Double D Witticisms!

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I used to check out the WSJ as a matter of course. Ever since Rupert Murdoch took over, it's been so much like Fox I rarely bother anymore. Last I checked in on them they were ranting about the fairness doctrine ... idiots.

Obviously I'm worried about the war abuses and crimes, but I'm more eager to see the political crimes pursued. Bush and company have gutted every institution in America ... even today he's loading down the FBI and other agencies with partisan loyalists presumably with little regard for their actual qualifications. I want to see the civil servants and appointees who have crossed the line with impunity for 8 years strung up by their toes. And Rove.

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KGB, the fear factor will rein in the appointments made over the last eight years. I really believe this. There will be directives from the top.

And I think we will see whistleblowers getting some relief.

All I can do right now is hope.

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dickday

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