« THE NEW BRAT HUME; THE BEACON OF DEMOCRACY | dickday's Blog | A PRESIDENT DRUNK WITH POWER »

I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE CONSTITUION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA


We the people of the United States in order to for a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure Domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I was thinking about this after reading a blog yesterday and something struck me.  A few months ago I was reading an article about the sins of the Japanese during WWII.  Their invasion of China during the '30s was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people, no one will ever know.  Except for the Germans, it is difficult for any country to keep proper records of these matters during times of total chaos.

A writer had been traveling to Asia, and he noted that the Japanese do not like to speak of such things.

The same response was had in Germany.  Why must we speak of these things, those days are over?

A similar response was heard in Russia, when the writer inquired about the Gulags.  Those days are over, he was told There was a documentary on the History Channel that discussed a photograph of Stalin in the early days following the revolution and the death of Lenin. The picture contained eight or ten pictures of Stalin and his crew.  Over the years of a regime that may have been responsible for more deaths and inhumanity than the Third Reich, the photograph magically changed.  Individual faces mystically disappeared from the picture of the old team. As if the men had never existed.

These disappearing revolutionaries were the men destroyed by a leader filled with paranoia and psychosis.

Our Constitution has changed over the centuries, and now it is the oldest foundation of the longest reigning Democratic Republic in the world.  

I noted some weeks ago that it is fruitful to visit your local county recorder and look through the older deeds.  They have been redacted.  Clauses known as restrictive covenants have been blacked out by the powers that be.  Almost like there were never neighborhoods that forbade the transfer of certain real property to people of the 'Negro Race" or the 'Jewish Race'.

But our Constitution is not like that.

ARTICLE I, SECTION 2:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Person, including those bound to service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.


ARTICLE IV, SECTION 1

No person held to Service or Labour in on State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another , shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered upon on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.        


We, the American People have not redacted anything.  Our history is there for the reading.  Free of any charge.  You can read how the Supreme Court of the United States ordered that all slaves were property regardless of their location.  That Negroes were not 'human beings' within the definition of that terms let alone citizens of the U.S. or any single State.

You can read how the Dred Scott Decision was overturned, not by another court decision, but by a horrible war that lasted four years and how over 600,000 soldiers died.

It took a war to overturn the single worst Judicial Opinion in our history.  But any library has that decision, the full decision, no editing, no redacting, no erasures.

The word 'slavery' does not appear in the Constitution until 1865.  The third amendment to the Constitution following its adoption in 1787, is the first time the word "slavery" is mentioned.  

The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery.  The Fourteenth Amendment provided that Due Process of Law shall not be denied any person and the Fifteenth Amendment provided that the Right to Vote shall not be denied on account of race, color or previous condition of servitude.

It took over fifty years for our country to recognize that half of its citizens were denied the right to vote.

The Nineteenth Amendment provided:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by  the  United States or any State on account of Sex.

We do not, as a nation,  ordinarily sweep our sins and our dirt under rugs.  And when it has been perceived that we have, it is with minor difficulty that we are able to lift up that rug and take a look and clean up the mess.

Our victories and our defeats, our sins and our good deeds, our strengths and our weaknesses are there for all to see.

I have no problem pledging my allegiance to our Constitution.  To everything written therein.

Is it entirely fair that a small state like Delaware has two senators and a large state like California has two senators?

Does our electoral system provide the best way to elect a President?

Should women specifically be given the rights under the 14th Amendment?

Speaker Pelosi along with her Democratic colleagues just passed to Amendments to the Civil Rights Acts of 1964 & 1965.  She went out of her way to PRESIDE over the vote.  As soon as her accomplishments have been ratified by the Senate, our new President will sign into law
specific rights and guarantees for the female worker.

Our Constitution provides a way to fix what we do not like. And that amendment process has been used over the last two centuries. It is a difficult process, but history has demonstrated that it is not an insurmountable obstacle.  But think what would or could have happened if the amendment process  were easier.

But certain rights and protections provided in that Constitution may be expanded by legislation as Speaker Pelosi has demonstrated.

Interpretation is another matter. If the Executive Branch is acting on the basis of misinformation promulgated only in an attempt to evade the rights, protections and procedures established by our Constitution, action is required. Our representatives must be notified of our discontent. Citizens must mobilize and make their elected officials listen. And the voting booth has been shown, from time to time, to provide a veto power to the People.

Many of us love our children just the way they are.  Many of us lover our parents just the way they are. Many of us love our friends just the way they are.  Warts and all.

I love our country and our Constitution just the way they are.

Change is not possible without acceptance of how things are.

It is for that reason that I Pledge Allegiance to our Constitution. Unconditionally.




88 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

That would make a beautiful pledge - for all of us!

user-pic

Somebody simply has to put it poetically or at least in shortened prose.

I just hate it when liberals are accused of being anti-American. You show me that is not true every day. My TheraP.

user-pic

I think I'm now gonna have to do my Howard Dean post. Thanks, buddy!

user-pic

Arthur, I'm so proud of you I could just spit!

user-pic

Stilli, you are making fun of me. I caught you making fun of me yesterday, also. I already have a big head, but not a fathead like Lou Dobbs.

Thanks for your support.

And please do not tell your husband I am in love with you.

user-pic

Now you two are warming my heart to the moon and back!

user-pic

Thanks, Mom...we're trying to be good!

user-pic

Ok, well, for the others who get confused, while I have retroactively adopted Stilli into the Dean Campaign, I haven't "adopted" her in person... just in her mind - which is fine by me. dd only called me a Den Mother, so at least we don't have verboten stuff going on in this blog!

user-pic

Further clarification...Arthur and I have a tendency to fuss like siblings and Thera gets pulled in to mediate, like a mom...now the don't tell your husband stuff is pointing to a little hinky stuff....hmmmmmmm

user-pic

I trust you two. You have boundaries! The rivalry is proof of that!

user-pic

Awwwwwww, Arthur...I was NOT making fun of you...I meant it from the bottom of my heart both times! Had I been holding a cup of coffee on the oj comment I would have ruined MY keyboard! You got a big rip-roarin' laugh from me on that one...This one just made me proud...truly. Ya done good.

BTW...how am I going to be able to keep raggin' on you if you are just so sweet? Or is that part of the plan? "You know who" needs to take lessons...do you charge much?

user-pic

And it is for those same reasons that Truth and Reconciliation of the crimes of the Bush Administration is so important. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and those to whom history is hidden and redacted, cannot learn from it.

user-pic

Let's have truth. Let's reconcile with the world though... and prosecute!

user-pic

Here's an attempt:


We the People
Lifelong Members of the Fourth Branch
of the United States of America
pledge allegiance to our Constitution
To ensure:
Unity,
Justice,
Domestic Tranquility,
Diplomacy before Defense,
General Welfare Rights - of Work, Healthcare, Education
and the Blessings of Liberty
For ourselves and our Descendents.

user-pic

TheraP, you are poetry in motion.

That husband of yours is a lucky man.

user-pic

Pay for Play! People are gonna think you're on take, dd!

user-pic

I just got it. I could not for the life of it, figure out what you were talking about.

With Quinn it involved a contingency fee.

I used to live on those.

At Salon they pretend you can get paid a dollar.

Of course, they never even read my stuff to begin with.

user-pic

Admitting is always the first step.

{I'm pretty sure I gt something like an Amen from TheraP on that one.}

user-pic

I will give it to you right now.

AMEN GREGOR

user-pic

Definitely, Amen!

user-pic

You have outdone yourself, dd.

There has been some fine reading here today at TPM, written by some fine people.

Migwetch. Chi migwetch.

user-pic

There are good blogs and comments today. Thank you
my child Flower.

user-pic

I would like to point out that Germany has been exemplary about owning up to its history and teaching the correct version in its school system. If there is any sense among the younger generations that the past events do not concern them, it is quite probably precisely because of a fairly profound internalization.

The Constitution is a grossly outdated, vague and inconsistent document that has been of marginal importance to the success of the United States (mind you, it is still one of the better basic legal frameworks.) The type of worship frequently lavished on it is extremely counterproductive, however.

user-pic

Karl, my allusions were vague and I apologize for no cite. I simply cannot remember where I read them. The German People have come a long, long way.
As have the Japanese People.

But I do recall, in the movie Judgement at Nuremberg, Marline Dietrich played the role of a German Aristocrat, unwilling to face the truth. Times have changed over 60 years. But there are still people who do not wish to look back on that part of their history, just like many in the old Confederate States.

I love our Constitution, just like our country. Warts and all.

user-pic

Here is a thought: individual characters in movies made of a culture by another culture several decades ago and set several decades ago are not necessarily representative of the diverse range of people that currently make up the culture today. On the upside, at least you were not citing Narnia.

Curiously, the Japanese arguably have not come a long way; one current source of contention in Japan's relationship to its neighbours is its constant habit of whitewashing its own history (mainly the Sino-Japanese wars which also involved Korea) for example in school books. The coming generations of Japanese are certainly quite removed from those of that era, but they have not done the same penance the Germans have. Perhaps it will not be necessary: time will tell.

user-pic

I, too, felt vaguely uncomfortable with the jingoistic tone of this blog, Karl.

user-pic

I agree, CT. We should all Pledge Allegiance to the Flag Pin. That would make so much more sense. You always manage to throw cold water on...er bring such brilliant incite into each of our discussions.

(Wish we had a strike-out option)

user-pic

Karl
I can't share your concern about the Constitution being "worshipped" too greatly. I think it is an incredibly inspiring document that has served as an effective guide for all these years.

Perhaps most remarkable is the preamble. Whereas the doc itself has required amenments and revision, as envisioned by the Founders, the Preamble resonates the same as always. In my estimation it still lays out the objectives and principles that drive all the rest in remarkable clarity and brevity.

It stands with the Declaration of Independence as two documents that are as close to "perfect" as it is possible to be crafted by man.

Great post, DD. I'll gladly take the pledge.

user-pic

So good to see ya Sleepin. I knew I would have no problems whatsoever, seeing you take the pledge.

We all gotta believe in something. And this document is a good place to begin discussions.

user-pic

It was just a week ago today that my father died (88 yrs old). I've been busy with the funeral and all.

He always got real pissed off at the chickenhawk patriots when they would pander to the VFW crowd on flag burning etc. Dad always said he never went to Europe and the Ardennes to defend a rag but rather the Constitutional principles such as the First Amendment that it stood for.

He freed Jews in Europe and hated Cheney, rove and Bush. He never talked about the Camps, but he nevertheless would leave you to believe that it was all related and that it was all a failure to honor Freedom and Liberty as inalienable rights. .

user-pic

My sympathies to you Sleepin', and your kin and your father's friends. A long life. Well lived. And I can tell that he and his principles meant a lot to you and to others.

I hope he was well enough to see November 4

user-pic

He would drink J Bavet as an occasional shot on semi-special occasions. But it was the night of September 4th that he broke out the Korbel for a special toast, and it was the last Korbel he ever tasted.

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts. He was a tough ol' champ.

user-pic

My condolences SIJ.

user-pic

And I of course meant nov 4th. Fat thumbs and no brain on an IPhone. Sheesh!

user-pic

That is a great story. His last drink. Again, my sympathies and it is good to have you back.

user-pic

My sympathies as well, SJ. My dad is 91, getting very frail. He's a repub, but boy did he turn against bush! His view: "That man should be strung up by the testicles!"

I can't say I endorse my dad's treatment, but it just shows the failure bush has been!

user-pic

Sorry to hear that, Sleepin'. Feel better.

user-pic

SJ, my condolences, as well. Loss is never easy, not even when the one you lose has had a long life.
Blessings to you and your family.

user-pic

My condolences, SJ. Thanks for the story.

user-pic

He and good men like him seem to be in short supply and now evern shorter, but he did leave the world a mighty fine son. I appreciate your sharing his sentiments with me.

user-pic

My condolences to you and yours, Sleepin.

user-pic

My sympathies to you and you family SleepinJeezus. Thank you for telling us about your father and his service.

user-pic

Hmmm.

The Constitution is outdated? It's the very amendment clauses built in to the Constitution that made it so it wouldn't be outdated. That's the brilliance we see in the framers, because they were prescient enough to know that it would need to change even when they were writing it!

That resulted in the initial 10 amendments, i.e. the Bill of Rights. Here are just a few of those amendments we still enjoy to this day!

1st - Freedom of Speech; Freedom of the Press; Freedom of Assembly; establishment clause

4th - Protection from unreasonable search and seizure

5th - Due process; Self-incrimination; double-jeopardy

6th and 7th - Trial by jury; Right to Council

These are not trivial, and were created as a result of the framework of the same Constitution that you so blithely refer to as a "grossly outdated, vague and inconsistent document that has been of marginal importance to the success of the United States".

user-pic

Well said RobbyLove. Honest to god I never saw an argument brewing. You'd have thought we were looking for a loyalty oath, like those that had to be taken in order to listen to our president and vice president at those pretend town meetings and at their speaking engagements.

user-pic

Yes; outdated and vague. Each one of your shining examples is a constant source of contention (there is this "supreme court" thing.) Let me toss in the privacy- and interstate commerce clauses for good measure.

It does not nor cannot address modern issues nor the applicability of the recorded ideas to future except by one means: allowing for amendments. This opportunity is also squandered by some who consider it, apparently, the closest to perfection man can achieve (seriously?) and thus unalterable; and the rest who due to the original vagueness have hardened into completely contradictory positions that cannot be consolidated to an appropriate clarification or modification.

It is equally unproductive to assume that I mean to denigrate the men--and only men--who devised the documents. For all their shortcomings they managed to understand their limitations. The problem is that most people still seem unable to.

user-pic

I won't try to counter each and every one of your cynical stances on the Constitution, but your insistence that the original structure and subsequent amendments are "vague" seems to be short-sighted to the extreme. Do you seriously think that a law, any law, can be written in such a way that it can never be interpreted differently by people of opposing views? If so you are setting a standard that no document can live up to. The Constitution established a framework and the amendment process has enabled our society to modify that framework when the structure was found wanting.

If our society has been slow to evolve, then it is the fault of *society*, not the fault of the original framework. The people who can't recognize their shortcomings tend to be the people in power, elected by people who can't recognize their own shortcomings either. It appears to me that your problem is not with the Constitution per se but with a society who has neither the will nor the inclination to utilize it properly.

user-pic

I made no other assertions than that the Constitution is vague and outdated.

Despite your best efforts, you seem to agree.

user-pic

I'll chime in with you, Karl. A republic is not necessarily the best form of government. We could all debate that one day. Nevertheless it's the law of the land and after the wreck of the bush criminal conspiracy I'll take the Constitution as a revered place to start getting back to the Rule of Law. It may not be perfect, but it's sure better than misrule.

user-pic

Thanks for this. Despite my joking response to your previous posting, I do agree with your take on this. I too am sick of being told that being a Liberal makes me anti-America.

Aside: Your reference to the picture of Stalin and cronies, reminds me of a passage in one of Milan Kundera's novels, I think it was "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting"... it mentions a photograph of two politicians taken during the 1968 Czech uprising. The were standing on a balcony and just before the photograph was taken, they decided to exchange hats. Later, one of them 'disappeared' from both the photo and the history books, so that all that remained of him was his hat on the other man's head ... I think I read that book about 20 years ago, but that image remains with me.

user-pic

Mr. Smith, that is a great picture. It is embedded in my brain as I write this.

The next time I wander to my local, tiny, library I shall look for Kundera.

Thank you for that.

user-pic

Awesome blog DD. You paint the American spirit with your words. It's a beautiful thing.

This is how a Patriot Acts. :)

user-pic

Mage, thank you so much. I am a sucker for compliments but it is great to see the liberals line up to honor our greatest document and the fulfillment (not quite yet) of those promises made in a Declaration of Independence written by a slave owner.

user-pic

Yes, the info is out there, but do you know what info to get?

For example:

It took over fifty years for our country to recognize that half of its citizens were denied the right to vote.

And yet, 14th amendment didn't give the Native Americans citizenship. Even their children -- who were born here.

That didn't happen until 58 years later in 1924.

I would also be somewhat hesitant to talk about the Japanese or the Germans "coming a long way" when the US is barely 250 years old. This country has never really had to face a true crisis due to its relative isolation from the world, its abundance of natural resources, and never having lost a war to a major power. (The Great Depression was nothing compared to what happened in Germany during the same time, for example.)

That day of reckoning is coming -- when we run out of cheap energy and (a little bit later) sufficient, cheap drinking water. It remains to be seen how the country will react. But as George Carlin points out, at the exact time that the Japanese-Americans needed their rights the most (in 1941) they were taken away. And anything that can be taken away is not a natural right. We would well be reminded about how the Senators post-9/11 lined up for the Patriot Act... many of whom didn't even review the document in detail.

user-pic

Lighten up CT. You do not wish to sound to un-American, do you?

user-pic

Perfect. You "pledge allegiance" and then tell the rest of us not to appear "Un-American".

Yep. Seems about right.

user-pic

Seems to me DD was joking. I don't believe you are thinking clearly.

user-pic

CT does make valid points, though. We are relatively young in the grand scheme of things. We have never really faced a serious invasion threat. We do have 2 oceans and did have enough natural resources to be isolated and independent from the rest of the world for quite a while.

What he is missing, however, is the optimistic spirit the constitution holds for us. It is that very document that has allowed us to be optimistic and patriotic. We have not had thousands of years of misery to make us cynical as many European and Asian countries have.

I think it is why those very countries looked to us for inspiration (the last 8 years excluded). I think they had forgotten what it was like to be really optimistic.

user-pic

The optimism comes from the unique American notion (our real contribution to world history) of being able to re-invent yourself, based on your abilities not your background and/or caste. (This notion still needs some more work in a practical sense, but it's truly been at the core of what makes America great.)

Nothing about the country's age has impinged on that ideal.

If there is a silver lining to WWI (and then WWII), it caused Europe to abandon dogmatic religion as a major political force. It's great that Americans can be optimistic, it's scary that they want faith-based anyway.

At very least, we should promote the idea of "God helps those who help themselves."

user-pic

What makes you think I wasn't joking too?

user-pic

I always pledge "...One Nation, under LAW, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice For All."

Simple, and solves another prob at the same time...

user-pic

Ok Cal, Sounds just fine to me. Maybe we may see a nation under law once again!!!

user-pic

Beautiful!

user-pic

Well put DD! Very well put indeed!

user-pic

Thank you Oleeb. Makes my day.

user-pic

Good post. Some of our current problems stem from our government moving away from the Constitution. The NSA for starters. The ability for a President to use military force without a formal Congressional declaration of war is another. The Federal Reserve Act also subverts the Constitution.

We still have a long way to go. Part of being pro-American is to push for progress and criticize its flaws.

user-pic

Thank you Zip. We have a long way to go, and the road is never easy. By the way, your other comments around this site have been interesting, different. Wakes me up.

user-pic

Obama thinks we should look only forward, and that spending our energies looking back to investigate the war crimes of the Bush era will distract us in our time of crisis. So, isn't the U.S. of A. acting like Germany, Japan, Russia, etc., and leaving it's evil deeds in an unexamined past? Failure to prosecute Bush and his cronies will damage our country.

user-pic

If we fail to look back, to investigate--and when facts are uncovered--to prosecute would be a sin.
But that is not the Constitution's fault. I think they are overplaying the New President's statements in this matter.

But there have been and are several blogs discussing this issue in detail. Much better than I can here.

user-pic

Obama must look forward.

It's DoJ that is tasked with looking backward.

I rest my case!

user-pic

TheraP (and friends),

You've crafted a beautiful two-score and ten
brace of words, expressing deep and abiding
truths of our time.

I thank you.

I also hope that you won't object to a possible
editorial amendment. We should get this right,
as we launch, yet again, our revolution.


A second take:

We the People,
lifelong Members of the Fourth Branch
of the United States of America,
pledge allegiance
to our Constitution
in order to ensure
Unity, Justice,
Domestic Tranquility,
Diplomacy before Defense,
the General Welfare Rights
of Work, Healthcare, and Education,
and the Blessings of Liberty
for ourselves and for
our Descendents.


Thank you again,
you moved me out of lurking,

-BC


user-pic

Very fine work William. Very moving.

Thank you.

user-pic

William, I completely accept your revision! Put it up as a blog! I'm serious.

Welcome to the Circus that is TPM at the moment. I feel like we're all getting revved up for the big event next week.

Go for your blog!

user-pic

We, the people, are not a branch.

We are the root. We are the base. We are not co-equal to the Executive, Legislative, or Judicial. We supersede them. It is from us that they derive power or, indeed, have any meaning at all.

user-pic

Can't argue with that logic. CT, you must be in one of the technical sciences because many of your comments seem to say,"Nice hypothesis, too bad it doesn't work. Get back to the drawing board".

However, I think it is a simple matter to fix in this case.

Welcome Bill Crandall! (I am assuming it is Bill from your initials) I think your preamble is wonderful. Omit the second line (per CT here to make it technically accurate) and it is a winner.

I agree with TheraP as well. You should wade in the posting waters. This preamble would be a great start. I will definitely recommend you.

Nice to have you here,
Mage

user-pic

There was nothing against the poster. It was a discussion of his post.

If we are going to look at the Constitution, you need to start with where the rights derive from (which was a lot of the philosophy of self-rule to begin with). It is a gross misunderstanding to think of the people as the "4th Branch". Ideas mean something. And this was about a thread examining the Constitution.

It's not a mere technical inaccuracy. The line shows a complete lack of understanding behind the words. Of course, the non-critical thinking encouragement makes it all the more worse because it perpetrates the error. (Or perhaps the encouragers didn't know themselves, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.)

I live in a world where people do keep score during the soccer games. If you want to protect liberty, you better be damned sure where your rights came from to begin with else you will be swayed by propaganda.

By the way, perhaps you've been in different environments than me (though I've moved easily among artists, scientists, business folks and political people), but in all of my environments, ideas are free for the sorting out. As I'm sure you've noted, people can pick apart my arguments and I take no offense.

user-pic

How about Diplomacy before Offense?

user-pic

Sorry, I am dense -- didn't catch the "lurking" reference. Welcome to the party, William. Come back often!

user-pic

Google Fourth Branch of Government. Read some of the links. You may be very surprised. Indeed: The Fourth Branch is We the People!

Here is one link only related to explaining this concept:

http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/fourth.htm

there are time when the Government does not represent the People and that the interests of the Government are not the interests of the People. There are times when the People have to assert their will directly and overrule the Government and assert the supremacy of the will of the People over the will of the Government.

Again:

The Government Exists for the Sole Purpose of Serving the People, not Ruling the People

Some would have us ignorant of this. Some would have us believing that the government is in charge of "us." But this is not so. The govt is there to serve us!

Again:

The supremacy of the People is preserved throughout all the documents and papers used in the formation of the Government by the People. The preamble to the United States Constitution states, "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Clearly the Constitution was created to form a government who's sole purpose was to serve the People and for no other purpose. The founding fathers went to great pains to ensure, through the separation of powers and the balance of power that no branch of government would ever become dominate and become a force that rules the People rather than serves the People.

And here:

The Declaration of Independence establishes the supremacy of the People and the Right and Duty to defend the Rights of the People over the Acts of the Government.

And here:

When the Government violates the Constitution, it is the duty of the People to rise up against the Government to bring the Government into compliance with the Constitution.

We the People, the Fourth Branch, have a duty, under the Declaration of Independence, to insist that the government serve us!

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
user-pic

WELL PUT THERAP.

If you aren't working on another one, since this blog is dead, post it. We will get a good reaction.

CT is being philosophical about the fourth branch and the 'fact' that the people are not a branch but the root. It might make a good discussion.

user-pic

I'd have to do some more digging to put up a decent blog on this. It was extensively discussed at TPM a couple years ago, after the DoJ, US Attorney firings and so on. And there's a lot more to it in the sense that business and finance seem to have tried to usurp the rights of the people. I honestly think it comes down to who is a citizen and the idea that corporations have muscled in on this. It's such a big area to tease out and I'd have to think it through even more carefully to put up a blog. (though I figured someone would say it should be a blog)

If you have time, and since you have the legal background and training (which I do not), I would empower you to do it in my stead. And yes, I think it's a very important issue and needs to be discussed. If you'd rather pass on it, then I may take this up at some later point. Because it bears on a "responsibility" was have as citizens. I think it's a topic, however, that needs a good research base - because the forces allied against us (who'd like to usurp our rights) may be formidable. Actually this is an area Gleen Greenwald would excel at. Or maybe a couple people over at FDL.

But it's a huge issue. And it's interesting that some critics of this very post, who want to say (and quite rightly, I might add) that the Constitution is not perfect or that we could have other forms of govt - those same critics might also be trying to say the We the People are not the Fourth Branch. To me that sounds like a contradiction - to maintain those two critiques.

Anyway... the post I have in mind, when I have time to devote to it, is to return to the Office of Legal Counsel's role. If the AG truly works on behalf of We the People. And if the OLC truly carries out the role of keeping the president on the straight and narrow vis a vis the Constitution, then I'm not so worried about this Fourth Branch issue. Nevertheless, I sure would like it codified somehow or placed in a pledge or an oath - to help citizens see that WE are the reason the govt exists.

Ok, you can let me know. But, as I say, this is a bit of a sticky wicket as a blog and therefore should have groundwork underneath it. It's that important!

user-pic

You know, I suddenly recall that during the DoJ fiasco, over and over I posted a simple plea on many threads of the Muck. It was:

Fourth Branch, Time to Stand UP!"
user-pic

I will mount my mighty steed and challenge the net.

It will take a few days.

user-pic

Thank God for the mighty steed! Good luck, buddy! I'm sure you can do it. Thanks! I look forward to the blog.

user-pic

You can put it in caps, boldface, etc. but there is, in fact, no "common" definition that the Fourth Branch is the people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_branch_of_government

And calling a cat a dog doesn't make it one. If the people are equal to the other 3 branches of government, then the government legitimately can say it exists outside the people's will. The people can no longer legitimately tear down the government because they only exist equal to it... and in fact are only 1/4 of it by your definition.

In fact, if the executive decides to limit your rights, by your construct they have a right to do so -- after all, they are an equal branch of the government.

No, all this was quite sufficiently described by John Locke. There's no need to "make up" things for slogans -- it only dilutes and confuses.

Indeed, you will note in the Wiki article that calling the people the fourth branch implies that government is, in fact, broken.

user-pic

How can you type and point your finger at the same time?

user-pic

God I love you, Cville Dem!

user-pic

I gotta weigh in with CT on this one. Locke and the "Founding Fathers" would be spinning at the idea of "we The People" as the fourth branch of government. The Philadelphia Convention spent tons of time trying to concoct a system where the People pooled their sovereignty and created a limited government with power to do the will of the People while controlling the danger of faction, including to as great an extent as possible, the danger of majority faction.

The People must remain superior to ALL branches of the government, otherwise government no longer depends on the people's sovereignty.

BTW, the Declaration of Independence was the instrument by which the people of the thirteen colonies declared themselves no longer the subjects of the King of England. It has no relationship to the actual founding of the United States under our Constitution, other than as a very good expression of their sentiments regarding the subservient role of government.

Please note that the Constitution contains absolutely no affirmation of a right of the people to "abolish" the government. Rather, they crafted a set of rules with what they hoped would be adequate mechanisms for "altering" it, peacefully, deliberately, and slowly.

Leave a comment

dickday

user-pic

Following: 191
Followers: 99

Posts
Comments & Recommends


  • Location Virginia, MN
  • Party Democrat
  • Politics Fabian Socialist

Favorites

  • Favorite Blogs huffington post Slate
  • Favorite Books La Morte D'Artur, Justice at Nuremburg, Heroditus' An History, Foote's Civil War, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and of Shaw's plays
  • Favorite Quotes A horse is a horse of course, of course -- a matter of strategery-- all men are created equal,

Bio

retired atty crotchety old man

All Reader Posts
How to use myTPM

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address