SATIRE, BAD TASTE & GUILT
I laugh when people fall down. Home video shows abound on cable mostly because people laugh when other people fall down. Or when dogs and cats fall down.
That is what Vaudeville was all about. falling down.
Cable protects itself by having people give some sort of oath that the individual or animal that fell down was not 'hurt' as a result of the fall. Now we can all feel better and laugh without mean intent. Even though there never was any real investigation as to whether the person fell down and a year later had to undergo back surgery due to the fall.
Evel Knevel made a living breaking his bones. I am willing to bet that his pain medication outstripped Elvis as the King of misuse of pharmaceuticals.
I have laughed at fat people. I have laughed at short people. I have laughed at people with cleft palates. I have laughed at people who live in squaller and stink and feign dignity.
All these people have been the butt of jokes for stand-ups, sit-coms and movies.
When John Goodman played Barbara Bush on SNL, I could not stop laughing. If I see a rerun I start all over again. I feel a little guilty. But when Mrs. Bush surveyed the abomination in New Orleans and said something to the effect that the environs were not that good but that the refugees had come from squaller anyway, I felt freer to laugh at Goodman's performance.
Oprah at 200 pounds is funny to me. I cannot help it. One of the richest female entrepreneurs and she is a fatso. She wears gowns costing thousands of dollars though, and looks alright.
But I am still laughing at fat people.
If Nick Nolte's booking photo is published after a DUI arrest, it is funny. He is a rich and powerful man, he can handle himself and the picture is hilarious.
I witnessed a stand-up on the history of comedy remark that he uses audience interaction in his act. He related an incident where he asked everyone to raise their right hand and someone in the front did not. So he took her on and discovered much to his dismay that she did not raise her right hand because she did not have a right hand. Now in this anecdote we feel for the comedian because there was no intent to do harm or to make fun of a crippled person.
Governor Paterson of New York is a good man in my mind. He is one of the only black governors in the history of the U.S.A. He is partially blind and he looks the part. It is not a hidden handicap. He reached his post fortuitously but he had earned the office of Lieutenant Governor on his own. He is to be admired.
But the papers and the blogs are going after SNL for their depiction of the Governor on Saturday, in no small reaction to the Governor's attack on this depiction.
I have to admit, that SNL provided a very funny skit within its pretend news show and I even remarked how well the actor did in doing his impression. The Governor is shown as totally lost, wandering the studio and blocking the camera and I could not stop laughing.
As humans we laugh at others. We laugh at their defects, their handicaps their condition. Many of these foibles are not the fault of the individual with these frailties.
I am not going to stop laughing and I am not going to carry around the old Roman Catholic Guilt as I did during my younger years.
But I have to figure out where the line is between humor and bad taste.
On some other site, and I cannot remember where, I was commenting on the issue surrounding Hillary's seat-no pun intended-in the Senate. Who will Governor Paterson appoint?
Some time ago, I went on and on about his options and I noted that no matter whom he appointed to the position someone, somewhere would remark:
WHAT ARE YOU, BLIND?
The site went kind of blank after I committed and the post was censured.
I felt embarrassed.
Do we really wish to live and laugh at it all?
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IIRC, SNL did blind jokes about (and with) Ray Charles years ago. So did the Blues Brothers movie.
December 15, 2008 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I laughed at the Paterson routine on SNL right along side you, Dick, and I'd still laugh at it right now if I saw it again, knowing as I do that Paterson found it offensive towards people with disabilities.
Laughter is the best medicine, so they say...
December 15, 2008 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know, it was so much fun and he was so damn good at it. Now the Governor is mad.
But I am on your side on this. Laughter is the best medicine and it is not like the Governor is a defenseless person.
And it was fun and nice meeting Doal--who just commented.
December 15, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
They also say, "one man's medicine is another man's poison."
December 15, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is no line between humor and bad taste: they are two independent attributes which can co-exist in the same circumstances. Something can be both funny and in bad taste. The diffence between the two is that one is an emotional reaction (humor) which is not the product of an intellectual product and occurs naturally to most people, while the other (a finding of bad taste) is a result of moral reasoning, a process that often escapes a good number of us.
A sense of humor is generally undeveloped and comes to most people naturally. It provides us an appreciation of the absurdity of a situation (if it ain't somehow absurd or incongruous or ironic, it ain't funny). A sense of taste is something that needs to be developed since it prevents us from prizing that which may appeal to our other senses but nonetheless is simultaneously and ultimately BAD for us and our society/culture/human development/etc.
Bottom line: yes, we can laugh at something that strikes us as funny, but on second thought this question or one like it should occur to a well-rounded person: is it really a good thing to reward the ridicule of someone's infirmity with a laugh?
December 15, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
s/b "not the product of an intellectual process"
December 15, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is condition of receiving. We hear a joke or see something acted out or we are simply perceiving what is going on in front of us.
STAGING the joke gives us responsibilities or not.
Telling the rotten joke is one thing and hearing it is another.
Now comics, at least most of them that talk about it, are attempting to draw laughter. And they are continually rehearsing to see which line or bit or shtick works.
I heard the most awful joke of my life decades ago and heard it for the first time on television at one of those awful roasts. There are jokes told in bars between men--and the same would go with women although gender would make the subjects different. But to hear a lot of them on television is really strange to an old man like me.
Here:
A man and his wife are in a car accident. The husband survives and his wife is in a coma while sits by her side, grieving.
He leaves for a few hours and comes back and the doctor greets him before he gets into his wife's room.
The doctor tells him to brace himself. "From now on you will have to care for your wife on a 24 hour basis. You will have to give her sponge baths. You will have to move her body regularly to prevent bed sores, you will have to feed her intravenously........etc.
The husband breaks down into tears. And the doctor says:
Ah, I was just fucking with you, she's dead.
It is the evilness, the taboo, the suffering in this terrible joke that causes the laughter to some.
Again, there is no intellectual process in the laughter itself, it is the person relating the story, bit or joke that committed the sin--or else comedy is above morality.
December 15, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Being the audience doesn't relieve you of your responsibility to react appropriately. Something can be funny, but you don't have to laugh at it. Put another way, you don't have to give the expected reaction. You can stiffle your natural inclination (to laugh) and instead express disapproval, disgust, or something equally appropriate to something that offends. Not everything that is funny is good and being funny doesn't lend a redemptive value to a tasteless joke.
I've heard that rabbit meat has a pleasant taste, but I know that one can starve by eating nothing but rabbit meat -- "Tastes great, less filling" takes on a whole new meaning, and illustrates rather neatly the point about humor which is both funny and bad for you at the same time. When someone serves up something for our consumption, it's up to us to know what's good for us and when to say "no, thanks."
December 15, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Consider this:
- Sam Harris, The End of Faith
Humor is what the current culture says it is. While we have evolved some since then, we still have a long way to go. Case in point: we still find dozens of TV shows like America's Funniest Videos (aka "Ow My Balls!) funny.
December 15, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I cannot help it. Burning cats is funny.
December 15, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we need Thera to weigh in here...
December 15, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
...but not if she is a fatso, 'cuz then she'll get laughed at for "weighing" in...
December 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love it! See how you're loosening up, being around us lefties?
December 15, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I gasped when I read that! And to be honest, I can't tell you if the gasp was for the burning cats or for dickday's comment... because I was busy thinking of lynchings... and how people may have laughed at the "spectacle"... we'd call horror!
There is laughter. And then, there is a kind of involuntary "reaction" to something shocking or strange - like a kind of nervous laughter... where you're not really thinking it's "humorous" but strange. The latter can happen if you see someone accidentally slip and fall or do something unexpected. But we usually feel ashamed if we've succumbed to nervous laughter.
In fairness to dickday, I'm guessing his comment was ironic. But I'm not sure.
But I gasped. And I'm not sure why that was either. (sometimes we can't control a reaction; it just comes out - ever been startled by someone and screamed.... even though when the scream is emerging you can recognize the person and know there's no need to scream... but it's too late...?)
This kind of thing would be hard to study. The cat thing bothers me though. (but then many things do)
December 15, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its ironic, my son of all people is a cat lover. I do not burn cats. Or drown them. I just feed them when he goes away sometimes.
December 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Humor isn't morally determined. Humor is a reaction, just like crying when enduring pain is a reaction. The propriety of the reaction may be subject to argument, but I have a strong feeling that finding pleasure in the suffering of other creatures is not a healthy phenomenon, which is why cat burning is no longer a sporting event, even in a modern society that finds violence entertaining (like ours). Making sport of human suffering is something I would hope that an evolving, maturing society would be trying to put behind it, as we strive to realize fuller human rights.
December 15, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's face it. It's funny if you aren't afflicted by whatever is being laughed at. It's easy to laugh at people when you haven't walked in their shoes.
December 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I forgot, now I am laughing because there are all these nice comments and not one recommendation. The same as the bible nut.
December 15, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now, THAT'S Funny!
December 15, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd rec, but Paterson is my Governor and he might have my PC confiscated if I hit the rec button on this post.
December 15, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry, he couldn't read it anyway.
December 15, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's proof that now I've laughed at the blind!
(I may need to click stillidealistic's name and go back to that one blog and repent now!)
December 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, you win.
December 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perfect.
December 15, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I rec'd it just for that comment! Cuz you're not the bible nut!
December 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's just no fun tattling if he's not going to get spanked!
December 15, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmmmm..... What would Jesus do? Or say?
December 15, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now don't go throwing that up at me!
December 15, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a joke! I think Jesus would approve!
I'm pretty sure Jesus had a big sense of humor.
December 15, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously, or we wouldn't have avocados or manatees or ostriches...
December 15, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You forgot the platypus.
December 15, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Laugh - great rollicking guffaws...
December 15, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to show that I am not a stuffy prude - this is a stitch:
Clouseau on the Parallel Bars
If I had to guess, I think our funny bone is tied into fear/adrenaline response. I think this kind of stuff in movies is hilarious because although you know it has the safety of being done by stunt people, you still have a wince factor.
I think it is a similar thing to the thrill of a roller coaster ride or a really scary movie. Biologically it could be we need to have that jolt every now and then since we are on the top of the food chain and don't really have predators.
Of course I could be full of shite too...Thera? any thoughts?
December 15, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I laughed! Out loud!
Thoughts. Yes, I have thoughts. Oh... you wanted some?
A. We are all full of shite.... till we die.
B. Top of the food chain? How about all those big cats in Africa? What about head-hunters? I don't feel on top of the food chain.
C. See above. I think there are many reactions we have that are so "wired" in us that we cannot stifle them or even short circuit them - once they're triggered... look out. But yes, I think you could be onto something in terms of "fear" being the trigger. A shriek. A hysterical laugh. Non-verbal reactions (like my gasp above) or whatever.
D. If you are shown a picture that is so fast you literally cannot say what you've "seen," you are - amazingly! - able to say whether you like it or not. Our brains are wired for emotion that way. We "know" something on an emotional level before we even "know" (in the sense of understanding) what we're reacting to.
E. What would Donal say about my "role" as the "weigh in" person? Donal, can you weigh in here? (stillidealistic is keeping track of the numbers...)
December 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thats EXIT STAGE RIGHT. I was with some other people in the theater when I saw the parallel bars bit and they almost walked out, I laughed so hard. The French Dick is the single funniest guy I ever saw.
December 15, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clouseau on pb was very funny! Random thoughts on humor: Surprise is a key element. Surprise in the sense of forcing you to question the assumptions you brought to the table when the joke began. There's the vaudevillian pratfall, like the Clouseau gag, where it catches you totally by surprise. Then there's the spoken word jokes. Two come to mind, the first being one of my favorites from grade school: Why do mice have small balls?
answer - Very few of them dance.
Second: Steve Martin: "I was over at my girlfriends house last night, and you know, she has the best pussy....." [Audience groans], "Now that really makes me mad... I was talking about her cat." [Audience laughs], "That cat was the best fuck I've ever had." [Audience ROARS]
Both jokes could be construed to be in bad taste, grade school kids talking about mouse balls, and Martin talking about bestiality. In actuality they both make us shine a light on the dirty mind we all have, by making us acknowledge the sexual interpretation first, then having that interpretation turned on its head, (in Martin's case then flipping it back upright with a vengeance). I think where humor strays into bad taste, is when it doesn't have that twist, and just reinforces one's prejudices, (we've all probably heard racial and ethnic jokes at some time in our lives and unless you subscribe to the particular prejudice, it's generally not funny). There is that one about a Newfie, (native of Newfoundland), firing squad that's still kinda funny though. Sorry Quinn, (not New Brunswick or N.S., but close).
Oh, and cats burning...just not funny IMO.
December 15, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I told Mom...you're in trouble now!
December 15, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. Full disclosure: I commented without reading this blog.
Gonna tell mom that too?
December 15, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I almost hate to tell you this, but you are the "Mom" I was referring to! Now I'm going to pee myself I'm laughing so hard!
December 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now I'm laughing too!
Good joke on me!
December 15, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
For any who may have missed the skit: It's viewable on Hulu
December 15, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. I hadn't seen it.
December 15, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
December 15, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pseudo I have hard problems, cannot hear but it has been played and replayed on the news which is background for me. I still cannot help it. The guy playing the Gov is right on and hilarious.
Fellow Grouch: The quote is great and I always think about The Name of the Rose and people actually dying of laughter--actually it was poison but I do not want to give the name away.
December 15, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do remember, many years ago, reading something in the (pre-Murdoch) Times of London, that a man was watching a show called The Goodies (sort of a downmarket Python) and a sketch involving a fight between one guy wielding a black pudding and another using bagpipes caused him to laugh so hard he had a fatal coronary. The real jewel of the story was the comment from his wife, who said she'd certainly write to the group and thank them for making his last moments such happy ones.
I am not making this up - I have the actual clipping someplace.
December 15, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
God, I hope I die laughing!
December 15, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
But like St. Augustine - not yet, Lord!
December 15, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I used to have a next door neighbor who was blind. Some nights he'd go out for a walk and when he'd return home, he'd get lost trying to find his house. One night, I heard a noise outside our front door and I opened the door to see what was going on. It was our neighbor, feeling around with his hands, trying to figure out where he was. I said, "You're at the wrong house. Do you want me to walk you home?" He said, "Thank you," in a real quiet, sort of embarrassed voice. On our way next door, he told me, "I haven't been blind for very long. I'm trying hard to be self-sufficient, but I'm not doing a very good job of it, I guess." Poor guy. I wonder why it's funny when it's a stranger and so unbearably sad when it's someone you know.
December 15, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know. But reading your story, you see, I laugh. Now this blog has turned into a laugh fest so I am ready to laugh. I would have taken him home also.
Not to get too philosophical though, we are all lost like the blind man at times and even with cues from our fellow men and women, we have trouble feeling our way to our destination.
boy is that a bunch of bullshit.
December 15, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe you just need to feel a little pain in your life. Suffering is the seed of compassion.
December 15, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
the teacher of the Buddhas
December 15, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sweetest of bunny-cats!
Perhaps your neighbor had known you long enough to know who you are, in the same way some of us feel we know who you are in your heart. I think so, because he quietly admitted to you that he was new to his situation and not very good at it, and that's not necessarily something people do.
You're one of the few people upon whose character and values I feel that I can rely on this site.
Thank you for your contributions.
K
December 15, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I get to be the wet blanket. I saw the sketch of Paterson - a good imitation of him behaviorally, but I didn't see what was funny about his wandering around bumping into stuff. Even Mr. Magoo had more to it than that. It would have been funny if there was some actual situation comedy to it, like someone hiring a stripper to corrupt him and he can't see the stripper or get corrupted. There has to be something more than "he's blind and can't see" to make a humor sketch. But then again I didn't laugh at anything on SNL the other night, so they seem to have really lost their funny chops.
December 15, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't feel bad. I had to turn it off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejRHLAnd83g
December 15, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
That did not seem funny to me either.
December 15, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink