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Josh Marshall's question re: Unseen Consequences/Daschle
Josh has a post on the front page regarding Tom Daschle's withdrawal from consideration for HHS Secretary and wondering if Health Care Reform would be in a better place had Daschle been running point.
Seriously? How quickly we forget. D-Ass-Schill not only didn't pay his taxes, he was deeply involved with the health care lobbyists. Or as I politiely put it when he finally withdrew from contention:
I mean almost the first prominent democrat to give the shaft to the public option as non-essential was none other than Tom Daschle way back in June 2009, right after a poll that indicated 76% of Americans waned a government-run public option as part of health care reform. This is the guy who would have led us to victory? I'm just a smidge skeptical. Granted Sebelius has been ineffective and invisible in the health care reform debate, but at least she's not getting paid by the health care corporate interests like Daschle.
Of course Sebelius is insignificant by design. Daschle was chummy with the health care lobbyists by design. The Administration did not want a vigorous voice for a public option in charge, which why Obama repeatedly passed over Dr. Dean (who I'm still peeved with from the primaries, but was hoping he's be named as head of HHS). The only consistently strong voice for the progressive position on public option has come from Dr. Dean. The goal here was to give the power for the Health Care Reform process to a "bipartisan" group of Senators - bipartisan meaning Republican & Republican-er.
Obama came to change the way thing are done in Washington by... doing things exactly the way they've been done in Washington. Gone are the promises of transparency and health care negotiations taking place via C-SPAN. Instead we have behind the scenes shady deals with PhRMA that the administration will not even make public what the terms of the deal are. The Obama administration won't make a strong stand for a public option, but will defend their deal with their lobbyist friends at PhRMA. Where health care reform stands now is Obama's responsibility. He chose bipartisanship and compromise and capitulation.
At least I can't say Obama wasn't honest though. He promised change, and he gave us change alright. He's changed so much I barely recognize him. I never bought into the whole Obama-mania, but I seriously never anticipated with a massive mandate via the election, with a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, with the stars aligned to make real progress, that he would fall so short so quickly. Epic Fail.
Seriously? How quickly we forget. D-Ass-Schill not only didn't pay his taxes, he was deeply involved with the health care lobbyists. Or as I politiely put it when he finally withdrew from contention:
Toodles! Should have had some decency and left earlier rather than dragging Obama and the Democrats into defending his tax-evading, semi-lobbyist, influence peddling, funded by health care interests ass.
I mean almost the first prominent democrat to give the shaft to the public option as non-essential was none other than Tom Daschle way back in June 2009, right after a poll that indicated 76% of Americans waned a government-run public option as part of health care reform. This is the guy who would have led us to victory? I'm just a smidge skeptical. Granted Sebelius has been ineffective and invisible in the health care reform debate, but at least she's not getting paid by the health care corporate interests like Daschle.
Of course Sebelius is insignificant by design. Daschle was chummy with the health care lobbyists by design. The Administration did not want a vigorous voice for a public option in charge, which why Obama repeatedly passed over Dr. Dean (who I'm still peeved with from the primaries, but was hoping he's be named as head of HHS). The only consistently strong voice for the progressive position on public option has come from Dr. Dean. The goal here was to give the power for the Health Care Reform process to a "bipartisan" group of Senators - bipartisan meaning Republican & Republican-er.
Obama came to change the way thing are done in Washington by... doing things exactly the way they've been done in Washington. Gone are the promises of transparency and health care negotiations taking place via C-SPAN. Instead we have behind the scenes shady deals with PhRMA that the administration will not even make public what the terms of the deal are. The Obama administration won't make a strong stand for a public option, but will defend their deal with their lobbyist friends at PhRMA. Where health care reform stands now is Obama's responsibility. He chose bipartisanship and compromise and capitulation.
At least I can't say Obama wasn't honest though. He promised change, and he gave us change alright. He's changed so much I barely recognize him. I never bought into the whole Obama-mania, but I seriously never anticipated with a massive mandate via the election, with a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, with the stars aligned to make real progress, that he would fall so short so quickly. Epic Fail.
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Thank you. I had exactly this reaction when I read JMM's note this morning. I am an unqualified admirer of Josh and his political perspicacity. I would love to know what is behind his thinking on this matter. I suspect he may be mistaken but I am certain that one of us is very wrong here.
August 17, 2009 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Larry. I was hoping I wasn't losing my mind re: Daschle.
August 17, 2009 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given the way things are these days, how could you tell if you had lost your mind? My cat knows when her bowl is empty and she knows what to do about it. What I wouldn't give for just one moment of clarity like that.
August 17, 2009 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is there a way to comment directly under Josh's individual posts?
If not, why not?
August 17, 2009 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think Josh allows comment on the front page posts, so I took it over to the Cafe. I rarely post anyway, so this motivated me to do a standalone loooong comment :)
August 17, 2009 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
good for you, thanks for the post.
August 17, 2009 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh cuts off comments, almost always. Use to bug me but not anymore.
I see what he's doing.
It just gives him freedom. I mean he could not reply anyway. He would not have the time.
He will do a sentence with a link sometimes, a paragraph.
This live wire thing is kind of neat though
August 18, 2009 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should we also wonder whether John Brennan would have been a more transparent, honest CIA director than Panetta?
I gotta say, Josh could be a lot more cynical as a journalist.
August 17, 2009 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cynicism is so 2007-2008.
August 17, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
When the WH web site on this issue changed, from 'Health Care' to 'Health Insurance' I felt the road to a Single Payer system was on life support.
When the WH admin, and President Obama made the same change, I knew Single Payer was dead and the best we could get was a 'Public Option.'
When Sibelius, Gibbs, and Obama said they were 'open to all alternatives', I knew the 'Public Option' was dead. No effort had even been made to resuscitate it. And along with it, 'Health Care Reform' was killed.
We, the people. have no honest broker in DC. But that is something that will happen only when hell freezes over. And maybe not even then.
August 17, 2009 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The framing should have been health insurance from the beginning IMO. Using health care gave the wingers an opportunity to rail against the government choosing your doctor, etc., etc.
August 17, 2009 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Huh....has a health care bill been passed that doesn't include a public option? Hmmm....must have missed it.
I was with you until you went on your little anti-Obama screed. If Obama is so shady and untransparent, where's his cover? If a politician is going to go whole hog against the grain of his constituency he usually covers his ass by throwing a legislative bone to his base (say prosecuting Cheney etal?) or by flying to the center to gather more moderate votes. I haven't seen either happen which leads me back to my original statement that, this isn't over yet no matter what your tea leaves say.
August 17, 2009 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hiya, dijamo! Obama also promised he would "reach across the aisle" and work with Republicans. They are putting up such resistance that I think he is really watering down everything just to get a couple of them on board with anything. If he is gonna drop promises, I wish he'd quit trying to massage the party of NO.
August 17, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Toadie! We did not elect Bauchus, Conrad & Grassley as President. We elected Obama. The GOP has already admitted even with coops they instead of a public option they are not going to vote for this bill. Bipartisanship is not going to happen. So we capitulate and roll over and cave to them for what purpose? At some point you have to stand on principles. What is important enough to Obama that he won't continue to water "change" down?
It needs to be health care. If he signs a bill with no public option and a mandate which is basically a massive giveaway to the insurance companies, I will have lost the last shred of respect I have for him. And I will be looking for a progressive who is capable of leading as President in 2012, rather than turning the presidency over to the Blue Dogs/Moderate Republican.
August 17, 2009 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post Dijamo -- every word the truth. Did you see this?
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/08/17/the-secret-life-of-tom-daschle-moonlighting-for-the-inurance-indutry/
An excerpt:
August 17, 2009 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Jan. I read that too. Ugh, Daschle just disgusts me. To think he could have been in charge of heading health care reform is just frightening. I listen to Howard Dean still making the case for the public option, implicating that obstructionist Dems risk getting primaried, and I am convinced that if he were leading this effort, we'd be in a much different place. My contributions for Healthcare reform have been going to DFA & Dr. Dean. I am hoping they can put enough pressure on the House progressives to insist they won't pass the bill without a real public option.
August 17, 2009 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
In other words, Daschle knows who can be bought and for how much.
I can only hope the IRS has flagged his file.
August 17, 2009 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. In other words, hiring Daschle to be the architect of the public option, while he is on the payroll of the Big Health, would be like hiring German engineers to build our planes and ships in the leadup to World War II.
August 18, 2009 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or hiring Sarah Palin to lobby for PETA or the SPCA.
August 18, 2009 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh may have had a point if we were dealing with normal, honest, and honorable human beings. That is not the case. We are dealing with conniving, calculating, self-serving politicians from Obama on down. Having the most craven and hypocritical ex-Senator in DC in charge of the health insurance reform effort would not have have helped it would have hurt. The problem is Obama doesn't actually support or favor healthcare reform at all. If he did he wouldn't have flip flopped on his position on single payer which is what this country needs and what a majority favor. No, Daschle would have simply engineered a more elegant retreat and surrender but the outcome would have been the same: more money for the insurance parasites and the people get the shaft.
August 17, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you know, smart Oleeb, what Obama wants, and how do you know from your lowly place what is really happening behind the scenes? People here at TPM are so fucking naive and so precious it just blows my mind. I hope you have called and mailed your representatives, boyo, because that's where this shit is going down. Obama doesn't have much control over this. Remember we are not a parliamentary government. All this screaming about Obama this Obama that. Jesus. Learn some government.
August 17, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you are the enlightened one I suppose? You don't have the foggiest idea what I've done or not done Einstein. And I doubt you know the first thing about how government really works. But please don't go on cause you're killing me with your civics class mentality. ROTFLMAO!
August 18, 2009 2:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lowly,
ever hear about the Bully Pulpit?
or maybe; "Walk softly and carry a big stick"?
August 18, 2009 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, if only Hillary had been put in charge, none of this would have happened.
August 17, 2009 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
She WAS in charge of this once. Remember? With a perfectly clean slate.
August 17, 2009 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, please do note in my post that there was no mention of Hillary. I am holding Obama accountable for his own promises. Would Hillary have gotten the job done? I certainly hope so. Obama had much stronger advantages than she had including a filibuster proof majority and (initially) 76% of the public advocating a government run public option (before Obama & team got their asses handed to them in the PR war because they didn't strongly defend the public option). Would she have achieved everything she had in her plan - universal coverge o excuses & no exceptions. Unlikely, but by starting from the left there's more room to maneuver. If you start with public option and disregard single payer (as Obama did), all you are left with is weakening the public option as negotiation with the conservatives.
But the more important thing is that I have absolutely no doubt Hillary would have put up a hell of a fight to get it done. She would have used her political capital because she genuinely cares about healthcare for all. She'd be cracking heads in Congress. For that, she earns my respect. And that's been my problem with Obama all along. The only thing he will fight for is to get himself elected. Everything else is open to compromise. What good is power if you are unwilling to do the things that you promised?
August 17, 2009 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
"She would have used her political capital because she genuinely cares about healthcare for all. She'd be cracking heads in Congress."
That's what we'd be saying about Obama right now if Hilary had won and capitulated. She's still honoring Blackwater contracts at the State Department, threatening England with not sharing intelligence info with them (which could prevent some attack) if they disclose evidence of Bush's torture, and saying that China's human rights abuses shouldn't affect our relationship with them.
Have you heard her say anything good about Iraq and Afghanistan?
She's an ambitious, vain politician, and she was happy to send us to slaughter Iraqis without even reading the National Intelligence Estimate, because she wanted to look tough come campaign season.
They all suck.
August 17, 2009 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure if Hillary had been elected, she would have succeeded in reforming health care. That's just a given.
However, we can guess now that Hillary's electability didn't hinge on health care reform; it hinged on what she told Wall Street she would and wouldn't do.
August 17, 2009 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
The great thing about what-ifs is that you can never be wrong :) But yes, I think Hillary totally would have pulled it off.
August 17, 2009 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Reich has had to tread softly because of the Obamamania. It would have been much easier for them to attack Hillary with all the distractions she brings to the table, then it is Obama with his million supporters on the Plaza at his inauguration. It took them a while to get to where they are now. They would have been here much sooner with Hillary. And of course, because I am speculating, I know I am right! LOL.
August 18, 2009 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, Hillery has the right stuff, she can't hold a civil conversation with a student.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdG6KFGHRfg
August 18, 2009 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
oh, stop! Howard Dean is the only voice that I trust in this fight.
Hillary blew it for political reasons, and Obama is blowing for the same reasons. I don't know why Howard Dean isn't compromised, but he surely isn't. Maybe it is because he truly has nothing to lose, and he is just doing the right thing.
Listen to what he says. Everything rings true. Let's let go of the primaries, guys, okay? Dean is on the money here, and we need to give him some more of that. It isn't over until it's over.
I'm beginning to think our only hope is with the Dean camp.
Anyone else?
August 17, 2009 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's not involved at this point, so why are you obsessing about her?
Don't know if you've noticed, but the Democratic Party treats Dean like the plague.
August 17, 2009 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Truly amazing, because he led the Democrats into a majority position. But then Democrats never appreciate success - it smacks of capitalism.
August 18, 2009 4:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/gregorzap/2009/08/healthcare-reform-dfa-can-deli.php
Anybody with you?!? Go here. DFA is already a serious player in this game and it has the infrastructure to make a diference on many fronts. Dr. Dean and his brother represent the people which is why the DNC abhors them, which is why an exuberant scream was played interminably by the MSM until Dr. Dean was maginalized. It was not all that. Frankly, Dean's disfavor with the DC crowd is why I think he has our best interests in mind, and he knows the medical system from the inside! As far as I am concerned the fact that the DC crowd holds him in contempt is what I would call a credential!
August 18, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh Marshall, consulting his Ouija board:
Ah, yes.
I mean no!
Er...
Funny how Josh doesn't notice that Daschle is the HHS Secretary after all. Should we tell him?
Die.
Of course Obama doesn't know its inner dynamics, since he wasn't in the Senate long enough to meet everyone.
Why bother picking up the phone and asking Daschle when you've got a Ouija board in your lap?
Great post, dijamo. ;-)
August 17, 2009 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
So... what part of Obama's cabinet isn't overwhelmed with corporate shills?
1. Treasury: Geithner, Wall Street tool.
2. Interior: Salazar, mining, big oil tool.
3. Agricutlture: Vilsack, Monsanto, Conagra tool.
Look at Obama's score card and results:
1. Wall Street fraud: Banksters write their own reform.
No reform, no prosecutions for the greatest fraud in US history. Quite the contrary...
Extension of the Paulson fraud of trillions for the very criminals who looted the system. In fact the criminal Dimon is held in high esteem by Mr. Harvard law.
Then quietly move on.
2. Ending for profit corporate wars.
End? Hell no, escalate foreign wars permanently for no other reason than more Wall Street profit.
Then quietly move on.
3. Health care lack of reform: a de facto bailout of the Health Insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
Planning to screw Americans with a forced buy plan of private insurance from a 1200 page industry lobbyist written bill. Corporate CEOs are at the white house table for numerous lobbying meetings to make sure Obama reform is no reform.
It will be shot full of so many holes by reconciliation that will be a Willard "Rat" Romney Mass. plan that forces the public to buy crappier plans at higher prices.
And then quietly move on.
Obama has delivered ZERO on anything.
The only change I can believe in is making Mr. Corporate Shill Obama a one term Carter.
August 18, 2009 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Somebody had to say it...Thanks!
August 18, 2009 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you'd like to show your support for the House Dems who drew a line in the sand and are insisting upon a public option there is an Act Blue page where you can contribute to a fund supporting those representatives here http://www.actblue.com/page/theytookthepledge.
August 18, 2009 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink