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A Little Much Israel?


I'm starting to tire of the Israel posts around here.  There's like six of them up now and half a dozen featured bloggers who pretty much only post on Israeli/Palestinian issues.  I understand, it's a big important story and with Obama in the White House we have unique opportunities right now but... it's a bit overkill, guys!

TPM's featured posters only have two healthcare items up right now.  There's nothing on broader economic policy.  Those issues will affect many more Americans and will mean a lot more to our electoral successes as liberals than I/P issues ever will.

The Israel stuff is now so absurdly over the top that we have the Mondoweiss guys, who seem to post as often as most people blink, writing posts about Huffpo not publishing their posts! Mondo guys, seriously, given how often you post here, how do you possible have time to blog at Huffpo?

The thing is, all this constant Israel talk just... overstates the importance of Israel as a political issue. I think Obama's on the right track and it's too bad he has to deal with Netanyahu and it should certainly be addressed here at the Cafe but lets get a sense of perspective here -- there's a lot more to American politics than Israel.  Its really interesting how many of the featured posters here tend to write and write often about Israel and little else while, if you look at the reader posts, you'll find that the topic isn't brought up nearly so frequently.

Let's have a little more variety, okay?



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Cosigning - ribbit! Even a frog knows you need variety in your diet. Too much emphasis on Israel/Palestine policy does seen to crowd out many other worthy topics.

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Co-signing here

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Hear here! It isn't even like TPMCafe's emphasis serves to bring into context the wider scope of US foreign policy in the Middle East. For example, within the plethora of Israel-Palestine posts on the Cafe front page, there remains a complete lack of any mention of the Lebanese elections.

Consider that only days ago global media predicted a Hezbollah/March 8 Alliance triumph, but now Saad Hariri's March 14 Alliance will lead a 69-seat majority in Lebanon's 128-seat parliament. You would think that all this is kind of a big deal, considering that both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden went to Beirut and openly supported Hariri's coalition, but not if you depend on TPMCafe for your analysis of this stuff. Which is a real shame, considering the talent available here.

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When I saw your title, I thought your post might be about the recent lies from Israeli's about Bush era "agreements", such as discussed and debunked in recent NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/world/middleeast/04israel.html

There is a definite emphasis on Israel-related issues, in the Cafe. But I don't see how it amounts to what tt calls "crowd out many other worthy topics". And I think its a bit provincial to ignore ME problems their direct and indirect affects throughout the world including in the USA.


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Well, I don't think we should ignore them. It's just a little out of hand around here. But maybe it's just a taste issue, I tend to get worked up over other stuff. The I/P debate, while I admit it's important is also repetitive. It's been the same conversation since I was in high school and probably before...

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I understand. If TPM has a quota (top limit) on Cafe posts overall, then posts about Israel issues could indeed crowd out others. Maybe TPM has a quota (bottom limit) instead, "we need X per week on Israel issues" or some such! That could explain why there are so many!!

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The thing is, all this constant Israel talk just... overstates the importance of Israel as a political issue.

AMEN! And even for experts, need I say that getting into that situation is known to warp one's perspective?

Sometimes I wonder if Obama secretly thinks: look at how racist this world still is, so few give a shit about Africa, all they care about is Israel.

I doubt there is a Chinese political website that focuses on Israel/Palestine like this one does, that's for sure.

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P.S. I think it skews what a lot of people think Obama and his administration are thinking. I think they care about I/P mainly and firstly as it applies to Iraq and Afghanistan, because that is where our troops are. Therefore, they think about it short term as it applies to Iran and Pakistan (and via the latter, of India,) and they think about it long term only as far as some basic stability of the Mideast, not expecting any miracles. It's a tiny, tiny bit of land in a big big world and has far more (mistaken) symbolic importance than real importance. The oil is still in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran, not Israel/Palestine. It's really a shame a lot of the atrocities and injustice in the world get such short shrift in blog coverage because of the ideological fixation on Israel/Palestine. I don't buy for a minute that the only reason is the aid we give Israel, because we give aid to countries like Egypt and Pakistan, too.

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That symbolic importance translates into real importance when money and power flows have a confluence with the symbolic aspect. It's a focal point of culture clash, religion clash, and politics clash.

Obama is free to talk about problems in other areas such as Africa, to bring those closer to center-stage in both diplomacy and the public discourse.

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Do you have any idea at all about the enormous differences in the foriegn aid we give to Egypt and Jordan, the $ amounts aside?

nevermind.

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Artappraiser, I think the administration views the I/P conflict as a systemic US foreign policy problem chronically afflicting the US relationship with the Middle East, and also as a major domestic issue in US politics, including electoral politics. The two are connected. The fact that there are such a high volume of Israel-related posts on a site like TPM Cafe is one piece of evidence indicating just how intense the domestic side of the issue is. And the fact that the Israeli side of the conflict has a a permanent, intensely involved domestic constituency is one reason the US faces the chronic foreign policy side effects the conflict generates. I think the administration desire is to somehow pull US foreign policy out of that debilitating spiral.

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I think Obama understands that we need to keep America safe and the I/P problem is and has been causing us a lot of trouble and is Israel really worth it.

They say they are our friend but what do they do for us exactly. They spy on us, they threaten war with the middle east? How does this help america. You can believe if the situation were reversed, Israel would have told us to go screw ourselves

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Why is TPM letting AIPAC blog here now? The line of this diary is the AIPAC line--can we please not talk about these things?

Nothing will change unless we talk about these things. We need to keep talking until things change.

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I hope you're not comparing me to AIPAC.

But my objection is... that this conversation never changes. It's always the same. But also realize that I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss it here just that it's getting too much bandwidth.

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I don't want to insult you without cause but AIPAC would like there to be no conversations that interfere with unconditional support for Israel.

I approve of the TPM heavy concentration on Israel at this time. As Obama and so many others have said, if there can be peace, there is only the shortest window of time. TPM's heavy concentration on Israel just happens to be occurring in that window of time. And the conversation is a little different as it represents a respected media outlet breaking with the NYT/Washington Post/AIPAC-approved line. TPM has the power to change a lot of minds.

Anyway, I respectfully disagree with you on this.

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Cool, I see where you're coming from.

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I figure it's not my site.

I would suggest that they start an Israel page so that those who are so inclined can go there and gab to their heart's content. I never figure I'm welcome on any of the Israel threads anyway and it is a bit irritating to have to find something you are looking for way down the page.

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I like a good argument about Israel as much as the next guy, so I'm in no position to complain, but I am perplexed by the growing isolationist sensibility of TPM Cafe. Israeli issues are covered, but those are in a way an extension of US politics. And that's pretty much it as far as the rest of the world is concerned. China, nothing. Russia, nothing. Latin America, nothing. Africa, nothing.

It's also a little odd that with the high volume of postings about Israel, Josh feels the need to keep bringing even more into the mix, even to the extent of cross-posting content from people who already have perfectly viable blogs of their own. My sense is that Josh has consciously sought to make TPM Cafe a kind of one-stop shop for liberal Jewish thought on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and has found that strategy successful in attracting readers and advertising.

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I'm not sure if there's too much about Israel, but I'm certain there's too little about other things--at least from the "official" contributors (the reader blogs are more diverse). In general, TPMCafe is a less interesting site than it once was. The strength of the site has always been the quality of the ongoing discussion about the topics addressed by the main contributors. Now, however, the only topic that is discussed with any regularity (and by multiple writers) is I-P, so that's pretty much the only discussion that has any vigor anymore.

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Well its a tiny country in the midst of enemies doing itself no benefit by stomping its feet on a small group of 'semites'. Oh, and it has nuclear weapons.

But the posts I read always seem to pound Israel.

I would like to read something that offers solutions. But the U.S. is not in charge.

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Its a minor political issue in the US but a major foreign policy hang-up that affects virtually every other international issue on the table.

I admit that I tire of the endless strategizing and maneuvering by the "experts" as to what Bibi plans and what Abbas can't get done.

However, effectively neutralizing this issue would allow some leverage and cooperation from other countries to deal with Iran, Af-Pak, OPEC, Syria, and on and on. Sorry for the generalities but this issue touches too many problems to effectively present in my cheap paragraphs.

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Agreed. It seems we have a couple of posters who feel compelled to post something about I/P every single day....it sometimes seems they have to stretch come up with something. By all means post when something really significant happens, but the current level of noise on the topic tends to obscure the bigger items.

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America's relationship with Israel or rather the perception that Israel controls that relationship entirely to its advantage and irrespective of America's interests in the Middle East and elsewhere does great damage to the United States.

As outside the USA Israel is increasingly seen as a racist, rogue state, America's unfailing support of Israel's excesses tars the USA with the same brush. Any restoration of America's prestige in the world begins with correcting this relationship.

As to Mondoweiss:

I think that Josh is doing the work of the angels in giving Phil Weiss space in TPM, thus increasing the audience for his groundbreaking work in using alternative media where the mainstream will not go.

How many other documentary reports about the shameful conditions in Gaza have you seen? Would you begrudge the people of Gaza this opportunity to communicate with the outside world?

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Just one example:

Somalia: More Than 100,000 Have Fled, U.N. Says By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Fighting in Somalia has forced more than 100,000 people to flee their homes since May 8, the United Nations refugee agency said Tuesday. The agency said Somalis were experiencing atrocities nearly every day, including rape and the shelling of civilian areas. “It’s a critical humanitarian situation, with regular atrocities being committed,” said William Spindler, spokesman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Geneva.

Sorry, but I just can't get away from the inference of racism in the skew of coverage and interest, not just on this site but in the interest of the populations at large and the media of the U.S. and other western countries. It gnaws at me not to say anything along those lines from time to time, to remind that the Palestinians are not the only ones suffering and to point out that despite many claims that they don't get any attention, they do get more attention and interest than many other suffering and oppressed populations in the world. Have they used that preferential attention wisely and to their benefit? I think if one is going to debate the topic, that question should be one that it behooves to keep in mind.

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destor23

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