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New York Needs a Special Election


Yes, the rules say that the governor gets to fill senate vacancies like the one we're about to have here in New York.  But in this case, I really think that New York needs a special election.  Governor David Paterson wasn't elected to his post.  I voted for Eliot Spitzer, not him and I'm not convinced that, had Paterson been the gubernatorial candidate in 2006, that I'd have supported him.

The rumor now is that Paterson will appoint Caroline Kennedy to Hillary's seat.  I know she's popular in the party but she hasn't done anything to convince me that she should be my representative in the senate.  If she ran in a special election as the Democratic nominee I'd likely vote for her, but let's see.  Let's have her make the case.  If anyone would care to tell me why Caroline Kennedy is qualified for the post, please do.  Aside from her last name, I don't see what makes her so special.  I don't think that somebody should get to be my senator just by dint of membership in a moneyed political dynasty.

Having both a governor and a senator who haven't been elected just isn't acceptable and allowing the unelected governor to choose the unelected senator without any input from the people is just ludicrous.

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One can hope.

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I posted this elsewhere. Here it is again.
Kennedy is an attorney, editor, writer and member of the New York and Washington, D.C. bars. She founded the Profiles in Courage Award, which is usually given to elected officials who, “acting in accord with their conscience, risk their careers by pursuing a larger vision of the national, state or local interest in opposition to popular opinion or powerful pressures from their constituents.” She also is President of the Kennedy Library Foundation, a director of the Commission on Presidential Debates and the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund. She also is an adviser to the Harvard Institute of Politics. She has written two books on civil liberties and has served in a volunteer capacity on numerous educational and healthcare initiatives.

I’d say that makes her as qualified as the person she would be replacing. She has never tried to cash in on her family name or tragedies. I think she’d be great.

If she's not, you have two years and you can vote her out. You need to remember what a Senator is supposed to do for you, which is represent your interests in Congress and work well with the other members of the Senate to get things done. What makes you think she is any less qualified?

I am curious, since you were a Clinton supporter, whether this just rankles too much because Kennedy endorsed Obama? If that's the case, be honest about it.

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She's a famous name, which means that any of her positions on any board can be simply promotion from her name - every org that has to raise bucks wants a Kennedy associated. What has she done?

And again you say "she's never tried to cash in on her family name", but her whole career screams "I'm a Kennedy". John Kennedy Jr. at least started George Magazine.

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It's ironical how you are screaming "her name screams Kennedy" in every relavent thread. Real irony.

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You need to check into an Irony Clinic for reclassification. Real Irony is not for the faint hearted - people get hurt.

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Translation: Blah...Blah..Blah

LOL!!!

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I'm sorry but the irony of your reaction is almost funny. You could say the same thing about Hillary Clinton when she first ran for office. She was married to a politician, her named screamed "I'm a Clinton." And by the way, how do you think John raised the cash for his less-than-stellar magazine? Because he was Kennedy and his mother had a long career in publishing. Of the two Kennedy children, Caroline is the smarter one. I remember an interview Katie Couric did with both of them. She asked John, "are you going to run for office?" He smiled and said, "I don't know why people don't ask that of Caroline, she's the smart one." Couric turned to Caroline and asked, "is John going to run for office?"

Point made. Seems to be a multitude of double standards here. Really stunning from you of all people.

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Well sure, Kate, you could have said that about Hillary. A lot of people did. But she won two elections. If the people choose a dynasty, it's okay. If a guy who wouldn't have been governor if not for the sexual indiscretions of the guy who was actually elected chooses a dynasty, it's a problem.

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But you are ignoring her real credentials. Try reading one of her books. She's very smart and very wise.

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I heard Jackie O ghostwrote them for her...

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Well then it must be true if you "heard it." Any citation?

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LOL!!!

I cracked up....ROFLMAO!!!!

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Yep. Gotta say, that was quality. The Academy's gonna have to look at that moment, right there.

Though, to be fair, everyone contributed. There are things you just can't produce on your own.

God knows, I've tried.

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Not hard enough, it would seem.

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Citation?

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In my other suit.

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White? Long-sleeved?

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bright orange.

black stencil letters on the back.

sharp!

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Check the little tag in the back. Topline should saay, "Property of New York State Dept of blah blah blah." Next line down, doublecheck. Should read: Lux. But my guess is it probably reads:

Des(tor.)

Which adds a whole new level of fear to things, eh?

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He traded it to me for a set of old NWA tapes.

A bit tight though.

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If it were about Kennedy supporting Obama, believe me, I'd just come out and say it. Yes, I supported Clinton during the primaries but I'm also an Obama supporter. There's no trickery here and no buried agendas.

I'm concerned about making sure that elected officials are elected and not appointed. I'm somewhat assuaged by those who have assured me that whoever takes the seat will have to defend it in 2010.

You say Caroline is at least as qualified as Clinton was. But to me, Clinton had the ultimate qualification -- she won two elections to get the seat.

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I understand your feeling disenfranchised by it all. I do. But the first time Clinton ran, she had never held elected office, so I don't think it's an apt comparison. I am just a bit confused by the vitriol about Caroline Kennedy when New York has had more than its share of corrupt, immoral, and incompetent politicians (not to say it is alone in that area). She seems incredibly upstanding and intelligent. Who would you like to take the seat, if an expensive special election is ruled out?

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It's kind of impossible for me to answer that question, Kate. My point is that, expense be damned, a special election is warranted here. It's not just that I might have reservations about who is picked, it's that I have reservations about the guy doing the picking.

Will Caroline Kennedy be okay? Probably. But there's a ton of people in New York who aren't famous who'd probably be better.

But only to pick from the famous... why not... I dunno... Paul Krugman? My objection here is that the process is entirely messed up.

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I'm not sure what you mean by "warranted." Each state has a law detailing what to do when a senator does not complete his/her term. In New York the governor (in this case, also in office because of a specific law) appoints one to complete the term. That is why laws of that sort exist: so that when the time comes there is an orderly way to move forward. If NY law specified that an election had to take place, but in this case the gov said, "Well, be that as it may, I see a talented Kennedy who I'm going to appoint instead..." then you'd have an argument.

How would you propose NY go about doing something different than their laws say? Do you want it only for this term, or for every election thereafter? Your thoughts on this seem very personal, and laws are made, hopefully with the idea of objectivity.

Is it just because Spitzer is out? Do you think every state that is losing a senator because of the last election should have another election to choose their next one? If not, why not?

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When an elected governor appoints somebody, there's still some connection to the electorate. In this case, we have an unelected governor, appointing the senator for the entire state. It's 2 degrees removed from an actual election. That's too many. I really can accept one degree removed but... two? It's not okay. The laws could never have been written to anticipate this absurd circumstance, but we should still deal with it in a moral way and the best option is an election.

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But what would be your legal standing to change the law as it is written?

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The legislature could do it, with the governor's urging.

But... really... is the process what's important here or is the result? It's up to New York's government to realize that it's not appropriate for an unelected governor to make this decision. Whether they change the law permanently or just this once is something the current government should debate. But proceeding as if all is normal and the laws as written are appropriate now is unacceptable to me.

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Destor, I get that you are truly offended by this, and I respect that. But f laws get changed for circumstances after they have occurred, can't you see how that would be a net negative?

Imagine this scenario: the Bush White House, pissed off that they couldn't get Bolton in as UN secretary on a SECOND sneak-through appointment, saying that it is critical that we have a legitimate person in place, CHANGING THE LAW because it is too important to have someone in place.

If you change laws retrospectively based on things that you are dissatisfied with, don't you see the Pandora's Box you want to open?

Frankly, I would prefer Jeb Bush as senator [CVille bites finger off at knuckle] to changing laws to suit circumstances. I hate the term "slippery slope," but that is because I'm not fond of eels. However, it applies here.

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Well, what can I say? Your warning is a good one.

I'm still deeply offended that this can occur, but I see your point.

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How did Patterson get his position? Was he appointed by Spitzer, or was he elected? Get a grip, Destor!

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So Destor, would you have demanded this if Hillary had won and was President--her seat still being vacated? Is this upset more about the potential choice of Kennedy? Do you feel as strongly about other names in the pot right now? Just trying to understand.

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The differences include Hillary being closer to the actual executive process (including her office in the West Wing), more hands on experience on initiatives for anti-poverty and family issues, voluminous international travel and other work representing state and federal governmental interests, and of course that she was campaigning and asking the voters of New York to approve her, not just the unelected Governor of the state.

There are several female Representatives from New York - if it's going to go to a woman, why not them?

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Oh, give me a break! She insisted on a West Wing office, but name ONE THING she accomplished at first lady personally during Clinton's (that would be Bill) tenure in the White House.

Barbara Bush, Hillary Clinton, Laura Bush: they all were near the seat of power. Hillary was more engaged, and far more interested and is more qualified because of that; not because she was close to Bill's office. She is also far smarter than the others, and more ambitious. She brings a world view that the others don't. The truth is that she gets attention because of her name, but she can take advantage of it because of her gifts. She didn't drop the "Rodham" moniker for idealistic reasons!

That is reality. Good for her! And (I hope, good for us!)

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Or Chelsea.

Jest sayin'.

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"Jest" being the operative word, Mr. Jest Her.

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I disagree completely. America has been in a nonstop state of election campaigning for the last three years. It's time to wind down elections until the midterms and get down to business of governing.

There is no significant shift in the New York dynamics that would warrant the disruption and expense of a special election IMO. This eventuality has been planed for since Clinton announced her presidential candidacy. If you don't trust democrats to make the right decisions, stop electing democrats.

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Well, to be fair... I didn't elect the Democrat who is making this decision. The governor is unelected as well, which is my problem with this.

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Yeah, I know - and I'm sympathetic to the sentiment. I just disagree a special election would help.

Whoever the power brokers in the democratic party select will be at the top of the ticket regardless. So really, unless you want to go GOP, a special election won't fix the internal party issue that concerns you. Ultimately you're stuck trusting the democratic establishment to do the right thing regardless - which IMO was the real decision made when electing Spitzer.

If my view is accurate (that dems will clear the decks for their establishment choice) an election would be a royal pain in the butt, expensive and serve only to give the GOP a chance to screw with the electorate. I don't see an upside for democrats.

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I don't see any complaints from the Obama folks about dynasties. Shows a double standard.

The point about a special election is that regardless of what the party elite do in the way of attempting to make a candidate inevitable the electorate can do otherwise if it so chooses.

While I am sympathetic about Patterson not being elected,an anomalous situation does not justify changing the rules midstream.

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Hi KG and AJM,

Thanks for the friendly tone of your disagreement with me here.

You guys raise some good points. But I do feel a bit burned by all of this, especially Paterson's role. To me, the Spitzer election should never have been overturned by something so stupid as him sleeping with a hooker. I'm very angry that a federal prosecutor who never even brought charges was able to overturn the clear will of the majority of New York's voters. Now this? It's too much.

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Well, Spitzer was guilty as sin. The only big issue was whether the specific investigation was warranted or politically inspired. His hypocrisy doesn't help the narrative, and considering who he was dealing with to arrange the hookers, it very much compromised security on his anti-mob activities.

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Sure, he was guilty as sin. But I'd have voted for him even if I'd known he'd slept with hookers. It was his work against Wall St. corruption that qualified him to be governor. Who cares how he gets his jollies?

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I'd not vote for him. As I understand he was banging whores on taxpayers' tab.

Splitzer or Edwards or Clinton- the problem is they tried to cover it and dig a deeper hole for themselves. They have no one else to blame.

Patterson admitted upfront he had extramarital affairs and not many have a problem with him.

Incidentally, Spitzer run on the basis of change and holding politicians to "an higher moral and ethical standard." He turned out to be a total hypocrite. However, that unfortunately is a pardonable crime.

He exiting the stage at the heat of the moment is a good thing for democrats in the long run.

I'm worried about Patterson reelection. I was hoping he would step aside for a stronger candidate.

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Prostitution is a victimless crime. Spitzer was targeted and taken down by the very real criminals who he prosecuted as AG. Paterson is an empty suit who has no business representing us.

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The problem is not prostitution. The problem is he covertly transferred and paid them with tax payers' money.

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So they say. Then they didn't prosecute, which is telling. If Spitzer just got a break because of who he is, the prosecutor should be fired. If not, then Spitzer should still be governor.

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They didn't prosecute him for two reasons. They brought him down anyways and much of the evidence will not be admissable in the court of law because it was collected by illegal means.

I don't mind prosecutor being fired. That's Patterson's job. But that doesn't change the fact Spitzer flew, booked hotels and paid hookers using taxpayers' money.

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"The only big issue was whether the specific investigation was warranted or politically inspired."

Politically motivated all the way! It was one heck of a swift smooth political hit job.

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I was not opposed to HRC on a "dynasty standard." I was opposed to her because of her vote on the war.

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William Jefferson got found with a load of cash in his freezer. Elliot Spitzer had to resign over high priced hookers. Joe Lieberman turned from Democrat to Independent McCain supporter. Blue Dog Democrats regularly pulled the wind out of Democratic initiatives. Most Democrats voted for the $700 billion no-strings bailout.

I don't trust anybody. I vote for them and if they don't work out I vote for someone else. Presumably Democrats will fulfill my wishes better than others, but that certainly isn't a given. And if Democrats think that picking someone only because of a name is bettter than pushing the organizing in all 50 states to raise party identity at the roots, sorry, I climb off at the next stop.

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I didn't understand this part:

And if Democrats think that picking someone only because of a name is bettter than pushing the organizing in all 50 states to raise party identity at the roots, sorry, I climb off at the next stop.

1. Who did Democrats pick because of their name, and

2. who had the 50-state strategy?

I thought the answer to #1 was Hillary, and #2 was Obama.

So why are you so noisily getting off the bus?

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He's got a scooter?

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Ayup, it's a GS Scooter with my hair cut neat. And now we're going to smoothly segue into a Gary Glitter thread.

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I don't support a special election. It's costly and will we ever get out of the campaign mode?

Patterson should consult with Sen.Clinton and she should have a strong say in who will replace her. It's a matter of two years before another election. ,

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Personally, I think New Yorkers should try and jump ahead of the pack & do something innovative. Instead of all the fine distinctions - whose last name is famous; was she a hooker or a staffer; does coke up the ass count? - Why not not get serious.

Vote for someone without a last name at all. With no genitalia. Colorless. Odorless. Shapeless. Spinefree.

I'd mention who it is, but you wouldn't know them.

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Prince? Cher?

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Barney?

Strawberry Shortcake?

The Teletubbies?

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C'mon Lux. Try harder. Barney has a color. Shortcake IS a last name (sheesh.) And the Teletubbies aren't citizens.

It might help if everyone just paused and thought about this, instead of rushing for the easy answer.

After all, this is New York's representative. We don't wanna put just anyone in there. This ain't Tennessee.

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Macy's Blimp?

Statue of Liberty?

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I'd say Madonna, but I don't think she's odorless.

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Say what you will about Madge, she's also not shapeless

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Blimp..... Nice one, Lux.

Though more likely that when it comes out, it's gonna be GOP, wouldn't you say?

Besides, I had another criteria, but I decided not to tell you -

The candidate has to live underwater.

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Stinky Diver?

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New Yorkers are not going to send a sea cucumber or a jellyfish to the Senate.

Unlike the Californians.

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Well, I'm pretty much expecting to see Squidward for the Republicans, which'll be damned hard to beat - especially since the Democratic genepool appears to have gotten so shallow we're down to a few families.

So I felt it important to look around a bit.
Either Patrick or Gary (the Snail) seem to me to have the essential qualities necessary for success.

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Or Marilyn Manson.

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Strawberry Shortcake has a last name. But I like the Teletubbies idea. But which one? Oh, too many choices! By the way Gov. Paterson was elected as Lt. Governor, per Eric's comment below. And yes, in NY the Lt. Gov. becomes Gov. when the sitting Gov. dies, steps down, is incapacitated, etc... It's not like he just appeared out of nowhere.

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Can someone please enlighten me? In California, we elect the Governor and Lt. Governor separately--we currently have a Rep. Gov. and Dem. Lt. Gov. Does New York do the same, or are they elected as a slate?

I suppose, in either case, the point is somewhat moot, as, one way or another, they WERE elected. Paterson ran as Lt. Gov. (and won) but is now serving as Gov. because that's what the Lt. Gov. DOES when the Gov. steps down or dies. He wasn't appointed to the job, any more than Johnson was appointed to be President when Kennedy was assassinated.

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I'm not holding my breath for a special election. But I basically agree. Patterson's claim to the gubernatorial legitimacy that gets you the right to appoint senators is tenuous. And I have a similar feeling about Kennedy. I'd likely vote for her. But it feels like it's about the name. Add it all up and it leaves me feeling a touch queasy. New York senate seats get tossed around in a very weird way. Let's remember, Hillary is many ways just reprised RFK's path to senate from New York. And then there was Bill Buckley's brother who had Hillary's seat before Moynihan. And he was actually from Connecticut.

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Who the hell are you? ;)

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I am a Kennedy person and have been all my life. I like her and she probably would do a good job. I'm also in sympathy with Destor on this. Without her pedigree, Caroline would not even be considered for the post. And yes, Hillary had no more qualifications than Caroline but she was elected, not appointed, and the first axiom of our democratic republic is that all government legitimacy is derived from the consent of the governed. However, I'd point out to Destor and to Josh that I think Patterson's claim to the power of appointment is perfectly legitimate. And though I can certainly understand why people might prefer a special election in this case, apparently the constitution of the state of New York provides for appointment by the sitting Governor regardless of how the office was attained, not special election.

Patterson was, after all, elected Lt. Governor by the people of New York state in a free election was he not? The primary responsibility of any Lt. Governor is to step in as Governor should that office be vacated for any reason. Patterson happened to be one of the rare Lt. Governor's who fulfilled that responsibility. Thus, his power to appoint a Senator is perfectly legitimate albeit it is not ideal for an appointment to be made in this manner.

No one questioned the authority of Gov. Roger Wilson of MO to appoint a replacement when he succeeded to that office upon the death of Gov. Mel Carnahan after Carnahan died in a plane crash. Carnahan became the first deceased person ever elected to the US Senate. You may recall the late Carnahan defeated John Ashcroft for reelection. The people of MO pointedly took this dramatic step of electing a man who was no longer living to make sure that Ashcroft left the Senate and the new Governor could appoint a successor. Carnahan's tragic death and subsequent election meant that the following January, the Senate seat was empty and the "unelected" Governor had the respnsibility to appoint a replacement. Carnahan's widow was appointed to the seat and lost a close race when two years later she did have to stand for election.

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