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Brain Food: Healthy Produce, Free Speech, Good Diet
[Taken lazily from a response]
People here confuse a boycott
against Whole Foods with some
kind of civil rights actions -
we're all Rosa Parks now.
People can't get their heads
around the fact that it's not
"free speech" if it comes with
repercussions. It makes little
difference whether I thrash
you with my cane or get you
fired or make you pay a load
of money or threaten your
family's safety - I'm finding
a way to shut your opinion up,
or at least others who might
try to go down that free speech
path.
Why can Robert Novak or Pat
Buchanan or Rush Limbaugh or Bill
O'Reilly express their opinion
with no repercussion (except
lots of pay), and John Mackey
can't? Mackey's certainly not
as controversial as the others,
and it's hard to see a
benefit like healthy food that
Novak and Buchanan have brought.
Except that alternative ideas
are healthy food, whether we
accept or reject them. The gut
needs some fiber to scrape along,
something to clear it out.
A diet based on easy-to-digest
pap is simply not healthy.
We need complex foods, we need
complex discourse. Get used to it.
Support it.
Brain food, you've got to feed your
Mind.
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Dunno if Mackey's the right one to hang this blog on, but I appreciate the sentiment, and nice interweaving of ideas/imagery. Besides, don't we kill our own? Rec.
August 20, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
"America Eats It's Own", News at 11.
Who is "the right one" to hang a blog or free speech on? Typically the ACLU stands up for the most obnoxious, and here Mackey's only a lightweight in that regard.
August 20, 2009 2:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lately it seems like defending the administration's 'positions' might be at least as controversial as supporting Mackey's positions.
August 20, 2009 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's been part of my point. Fixing Health Care is part of Obama's day job - the reason we ante'd up $750 million. Mackey's just a green grocer mouthing off a bit. But we kick the dog that's closest.
How'd you make it out of the Hive, anyway? I thought that was you roasting on the spit between John Doe suspect peccary #2 & #3.
August 20, 2009 2:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I shaved a sharpei that stumbled into the hive, and pushed him out of a tunnel I was hiding in, before I took off for a deeper route out. Amazing how much a sharpei looks like a pig when you take away his hair...
August 21, 2009 12:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Desi loves a challenge. Mackey is perfect exactly because he is so controversial.
August 20, 2009 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Des
Truth is I don't much care, but I am compelled to comment because, well, sometimes you are simply a prick.
So some of us liberals round here don't much care for an asshole whose entire business plan is based on playing upon food fears of liberals who then goes off and writes a disingenuous column that prefixes Thatcher.
I don't really give a damn about the merits (although his economics is even more piss poor then his integrity, or the fact that his entire prescription seems to be "game catastrophic insurance coverage with employee HSA's, that is if you have a job).
1. what a stupid crock of shit.
2. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. Period. He should simply put a sock in it. He is giving 'liberal cover' to bs conservative ideas while sticking his finger up at his customers. We can be mad if we want to.
I know that you may enjoy this perverseness and that mocking someone who historically mentioned Rosa Parks in defense of boycotts is fun to you. But grow up.
Who fucking cares? Dudes a prick, let some of us vent and quit being one too.
August 20, 2009 2:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ben & Jerry were boycotted for Ben signing a petition for Mumia Abu-Jamal. Should Ben have just "put a sock in it"? Should every business owner just "put a sock in it"?
Obama and Rahm are going to be campaigning for Arlan Specter - should I line up all his quotes supporting progressive causes throughout the years?
If defending people's ability to stand up non-disruptively and give their honest non-hate inspiring opinion without repercussion is "being a prick", well then, I like being a prick.
Regarding Rosa Parks, I'm simply astounded that people can be so vain and self-righteous. Sometimes I look in the mirror and see Mahatma Gandhi staring back at me - the similarities are astounding.
August 20, 2009 3:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes I look in the mirror and see Mahatma Gandhi staring back at me - the similarities are astounding.
I am sure you do. So fucking what?
1. Ben's business plan relies on a different breed of customers, and he probably gained more from that action anyway. who cares.
2. Spector.... please go right ahead. don't give a fuck.
3. Dude's a prick who is sticking his finger up at us. It is your right to defend at will. Prick.
4. the citation was not inaccurate, nor is the idea. Maybe its a stretch. But our Healthcare system kills more people then lack of Civil rights ever did. How do you measure which is more correct? Oh great one? Is hating black people is worse then killing poor people? What the hell is wrong with your moral compass. Asinine prick (emphasis on the asinine).
Who cares? Dude is a prick. Boycott. Murdock's fox and WSJ are the right wings propaganda Basij. Where is ours?
I don't want our side funding their lies. That means shutting bs down. And you know as well as I do his column is bs. So why the game?
Are you simply bored?
August 20, 2009 3:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
What you mean "our side", Keem-o-sabe?
Shorter Saladin: "Thomas Jefferson was a genocidal prick because he didn't put health care in the Bill of Rights"
Saladin Observation: "Desi's conflicted between hating black people and killing poor people"
Progressives have stuck their finger up at Mackey for decades, as much as he has to them. It must be a pain in the ass to be responsible to "the community" in running a business. PETA asked Ben & Jerry's to use human milk instead of cow's milk in their ice cream - brilliant, that'll go fine with PETA's use of naked women to fight wearing fur - naked, pregnant, and hooked to a dairy fast-expressing machine. "Lower prices, increase benefits, be more organic, unionize, don't compete with local co-ops, give more to progressive charities." There are a billion know-it-alls in the progressive community even though there are far fewer members. When wishes aren't reality bound, they expand easily to inhabit all space and time.
August 20, 2009 3:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I confess, guilty of the hyberbole.
Shorter Desi: "asinine"
Mackey's a prick, progressives like to whine. So what.
August 20, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what if progressives are hypocritical? I am afraid you won't understand that question unless I spell it out: Free speech only applies to our faves?
Sorry, that's too Republican for me.
August 20, 2009 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Free speech has to do with gov't suppression of speech. This is not a free speech issue. Mackey's right's have not been impinged in any way, shape or form.
August 20, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Better lay off the spliff, Jonnie, the smell of smoldering braincells is none too pretty.
August 20, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol that all you got?
August 20, 2009 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Doper talk about "it's only suppression if government does it"? Take another bong hit, not following this one down to blackout.
August 21, 2009 2:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
The First Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. The Amendment states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I've got this as well as my weed. I may be stoned but I don't see the part where people aren't allowed to express their opinions through a boycott. Would you please point it out to me. Go get gasket she might be able to help, unless she realizes
August 21, 2009 8:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
her 'free speech reference was in error. ALWAYS FELT YOU WERE THE DIMMER OF THE TWO BULBS.
August 21, 2009 8:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
jonnie, in your impatience to catch me in a contradiction, you never manage to comprehend what I've actually said. Instead, you veer off on a ridiculous tangent that has nothing to do with the conversation. You always manage to take the conversation down a level or two.
I'm not as obsessive-compulsive a commenter as you are, so I don't usually say things that are knee-jerk superficial. If you want to challenge me, then you have to play at a much higher level. I'm not going to play at your level. I've tried to give you the chance to say something interesting, and so far you have failed every time.
Please stop calling me names and just ignore my comments when you see them. That act alone will automatically redeem the entire site. You are trolling me again, but I have as much right to be here as you do.
You seem not to recognize the irony that your behavior (as I document in my links and in your comments here) ends up proving Desidero's point. Unfortunately, it's not an interesting irony, it's a tedious one.
August 21, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
How is responding to desi trolling you?
August 21, 2009 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Point?
Exactly how is his free speech imperiled?
Progressives are equally free to shop however they want.
I own my own business, I certainly have the free speech right to tell my customers they are idiots (you and desi would probably agree with me there), but that would be stupid and I would be prick.
Regardless, white flag. I don't really care. I doubt many of you do either.
August 20, 2009 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I personally think boycotts should be used to protest actual abuses, not opinions. I couldn't care less about what Mackey thinks.
August 20, 2009 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boycotts are speech, too.
August 20, 2009 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please spare me the facile, easy comment next time, Zipper, and try to challenge me with something harder. Thanks in advance!
Meanwhile, I never said boycotts weren't free speech.
Boycotts are a tool of protest. They are most effective to protest abuses of human rights, and even then, they are only effective on a massive scale or over a protracted period of time. (And please don't try to tell me that 14,000 Facebook members constitutes a massive protest. It's a flash in the pan.)
What are progressives going to accomplish by boycotting Whole Foods? For every boycotter, Whole Foods gained a new customer. That's because Whole Foods as a company didn't do anything wrong.
Yet rank-and-file progressives (and I'm including you, Zipper, until you say something smart) continue to prove they are exceedingly vain, impotent, self-defeating, and not very bright. It's fucking depressing.
August 21, 2009 9:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
What?
August 21, 2009 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you're not following the news? Mackey is getting roughly as much support for his WSJ op-ed as he is getting criticism.
August 21, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
New business from liberals, I bet.
At least all "concerns" about evil progressives putting him to the street are unfounded, then, so we can get on with not going to Whole Foods and you can get on with continuing to go.
August 21, 2009 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
A nearly incoherent comment, Karl, and as always you make stupid assumptions. I don't shop at Whole Foods. I live in New York, where there are a million other options, including farmer's markets, independent grocers/bakers/butchers, as well as specialty and ethnic food shops. (Not to mention corner bodegas, several supermarket chains, and delis.)
August 21, 2009 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, you can also continue to not go, in that case. In fact, you can not go right away, or postpone it 'til later.
As for the rest, you will have to refer to the earlier objections.
August 21, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would you deny zip or myself the freedom to to express our opinions? That IS the point to the blog.
aren't these your words?
So what if progressives are hypocritical? I am afraid you won't understand that question unless I spell it out: Free speech only applies to our faves?
Sorry, that's too Republican for me.
August 21, 2009 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't denied anyone anything.
August 21, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with Sal.
- Desi is bored.
- Mackey is free to say what he wants
- Liberals are free to shop where they want
- Desi is free to do what he wants when he's bored
though I'd prefer he do something 'rec'ommendable...
August 20, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. White flag
August 20, 2009 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ever since I saw the commercial which compared the defense budget to a stack of cookies I've run out to buy MORE Ben and Jerryh's Cherry Garcia. It wreaks havoc with my waistline, but I believe in supporting those who support my causes. I suppose a lot of defense contractors switched to whatever brand supports their business. I guess it evens out.
So I'll stay away from Wholefoods the Chain, and eat Whole foods which I can get anywhere I want, if I look hard enough. But it's not hard because I have a locally owned and operated supermarket in Providence which has just as healthy stuff in it as whole Foods, three blocks away, has. Cheaper. And they have a program whereby non-profits collect cash register receipts from their members and turn them in for cash donations.
I would never stop Mr. Mackey from saying whatever crosses his mind. But as the Supreme Court has said, money is political speech, so I will exercise my free speech by not spending any of it where a proportion goes to make Mackey even wealthier. If my speech moderates Mackey's speech, well, that's his decision.
August 20, 2009 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
First I love the word 'Organic'. I mean coal is organic.
Second, at least in this case, health at least has something to do with health care. Which is strange in this context.
Third, there are real enemies out there. Real satans to be dealt with. I just do not think this giant of the food industry is one of them.
I mean beck depicts My President as Hitler and wants to Kill Grandma Pelosi.
Come on.
August 20, 2009 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
There you go, the road's lined with windmills to tilt at, with a Dulcinea behind most every tree. Vaya con Dios!!!
August 20, 2009 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
So is shit. Hahahaha
August 20, 2009 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I need to polish my glasses. I thought you wrote orgasmic and I was going to agree with you. One can never be too orgasmic. At last we got to the titty-gritty.
But hey, I agree with you anyhow. Pair up a person who gorges on organic food and one who eats moderately on the regular stuff, and bet on which you'll wake first. I have yet to see "death by Wonder Bread" on a certificate. (No I don't eat Wonder Bread--I eat the stuff with fifteen grains in it, of which eight or nine I've never heard of in any other context. Yummy though.
August 20, 2009 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do we know if Mackey was brandishing a firearm...um, sorry..."excercising his rights" when he wrote that op-ed?
:o
August 20, 2009 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Julia Child lived to be 92 and half of her calories came from cholesterol and animal fats, and she was not by any reasonable standards obese. French cuisine and that French paradox, eating for pure pleasure and leaving the grains for the ducks, while nevertheless enjoying longevity, freedom from obesity and heart disease, a blatant contradiction to all the Puritanical nutritional standards we follow in this country as our girths swell. The bargain to eat increasingly like horses so that we could be healthier would make sense if only it worked. When it fails, we lash our backs with whips to keep us going on the treadmill. Meanwhile, at some bistrot in Europe, some skinny person is delighted over the pleasure of an île flottante for dessert, that's right, with eggs (not fully cooked), sugar, and cream.
Whole Foods market is not about food. It's about Elizabeth Kubler Ross bargaining for health via the denial of gastronomical pleasure, all the while scraping one's precious colon with roughage meant for ruminators. The American belief that denial is virtue, health, and prosperity finds a haven in such so-called nutrition pushed by the grain-industry sponsored American Heart Association, while the Europeans eat protein and animal fat galore and have fewer health problems than we do.
Just my perspective, and I'm now off to whip up a hollandaise sauce.
August 20, 2009 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I would agree that mental health is often much more important than what you eat. I think a lot of the sickness we see today can be traced to corn syrup, but that's just a guess. Controlling amounts is probably more important than what you specifically eat.
The "Food Pyramid" is a joke of course. A lot of theories surrounding Wellsville, but America has always been heavy with snake oil and other alternative cures.
Animal fat might be healthy simply because it fills you up and slows down the eating urge faster. The idea that eating fat causes fat is rather absurd, but it's our theory and we're stickng with it.
August 20, 2009 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is pretty funny. hahahahhaa. I have to wait a year or two till it comes on regular cable but I love Julia Childs (she still lives in video) and always have. 92, well she could have lived to be 101?
What a wasted eight or nine years.
SAVE THE LIVER. SAVE THE LIVER. HAHAHAH
August 21, 2009 1:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you see that Meryl Streep is doing Julia Child film? Should be a winner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjvJHsJD8ic
August 21, 2009 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
When finally reached for comment today, Mr. Novak had nothing to say on the subject.
August 21, 2009 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a bunch of crap Des. You grossly distorted my post and now you start a blog based on it. You stated, "No, the right to boycott or lynch someone you don't like is hardly precious, it's typically vindictive and mendacious, especially if it's just over speech."
Comparing a boycott to a lynching is absurd. You think if a mob pulled Mackay out of his bed some night his last words before they strung him up would be, "No matter, I was being boycotted which is just about the same."
"Its typically vindictive and mendacious?" Generally I think most boycotts are just and a very effective tactic to achieve worthy goals. All I did was list a couple of boycotts that were not, "typically vindictive and mendacious." I objected to your hyperbole, your rather wholesale rejection of boycotts.
I've never advocated or defended the Whole Foods boycott. I never implied there was any sort of moral equivalency between Parks or the South Africa boycotts and the Whole Foods boycott. In fact in the post you're referring to I stated that I may agree with you that Mackay's op-ed was an insignificant reason to organize a boycott. I generally feel that the behavior should be somewhat repugnant to qualify for organizing a boycott.
You feeling ok des? Because you've been creating some really stupid distortions of posts and posting some dumb shit arguments based on them. Surprising from someone as intelligent as you.
Free speech doesn't come with a right to a major media microphone or a major newspaper's print space. Nor am I required to help fund anyone's speech. While I don't see Mackay's op-ed as sufficiently repugnant I have no problem at all with the efforts to get advertisers to stop supporting Glenn Beck. Its seems to be successful so far and if he loses his job I have no problem with it. He can exercise his free speech rights from a soap box in the local park or run a web site. Same as me. He has no right nor does he deserve a microphone. He doesn't have any right to my money nor do any of the corporations that sponsor him.
August 21, 2009 2:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you think it's all about you?
August 23, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink