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Two Stories: Henry Louis Gates
There were a few diaries posted about the arrest of Henry Louis Gates, and while I'm not typically sympathetic towards cops (Digby's list of taser deaths, personal experience, renegade cops like in the Duke Lacross case, theTexas San Jacinto sheriff planting drugs on blacks, and numerous other reasons, I still think it's worthwhile getting the other side of the story. (I've been doing that a bit with Walpin as well), and noticed that no one seemed to quote the cop on the scene.
So here is the investigating officer's statement.
And here is Professor Gates' take.
Our task and difficulty as always is to figure out if the truth is with one, the other, between, or somewhere out there somewhere.
Read, comment, argue, vent.
Update: Here's a profile on Sergeant Crowley, to allow him to be a bit human.
And here's what Obama could have said instead of saying "the Cambridge police acted stupidly" even though "Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts." while joking about the White House, "here I'd get shot". Aside from pissing off police nationwide and appearing a bit un-Presidential, it also had the effect of taking attention away from what was supposed to be a major health care push.
Update 2: Via the Harvard Crimson - "Damaris J. Taylor '12, alumni and public relations chair for the Harvard Black Students Association, said that based on police reports, he personally didn't think the arrest was racially motivated and that "the officer was just doing his job." But he also said that while the professor may have overreacted or even acted rudely, the police should not have issued an arrest." Hey, someone I agree with. Perhaps views across "the racial divide" don't have to be irreconcilable as is sometimes claimed.
So here is the investigating officer's statement.
And here is Professor Gates' take.
Our task and difficulty as always is to figure out if the truth is with one, the other, between, or somewhere out there somewhere.
Read, comment, argue, vent.
Update: Here's a profile on Sergeant Crowley, to allow him to be a bit human.
And here's what Obama could have said instead of saying "the Cambridge police acted stupidly" even though "Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here. I don't know all the facts." while joking about the White House, "here I'd get shot". Aside from pissing off police nationwide and appearing a bit un-Presidential, it also had the effect of taking attention away from what was supposed to be a major health care push.
Update 2: Via the Harvard Crimson - "Damaris J. Taylor '12, alumni and public relations chair for the Harvard Black Students Association, said that based on police reports, he personally didn't think the arrest was racially motivated and that "the officer was just doing his job." But he also said that while the professor may have overreacted or even acted rudely, the police should not have issued an arrest." Hey, someone I agree with. Perhaps views across "the racial divide" don't have to be irreconcilable as is sometimes claimed.
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I didn't want to get into this but as President Obama (admittedly a friend of Skip Gates) just stated that the police acted stupidly and went on about racism in this country, I must say that there are a lot of people of all races that are ignorant of the experiences of the other. I think the police officer acted the same way police will always act towards anyone not complying and shouting abuse at them.
No one denies that everyone has their prejudices and there are hard-core racists even, if not more so among police. But the issue of race is only polarized when it is exaggerated in an incident like this. What about class prejudice that is rampant and unremarked in this country? If Skip Gates was not Prfessor Gates (regardless of his race) he'd probably still be in jail.How does this officer or his family feel when not only Professor Gates, but the press and even the POTUS is calling him racist who acted stupidly?
July 22, 2009 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The cop did act stupidly. This guy was in his own house. He has witnesses. He showed ID, once it was clear that he was talking to a police officer. He also has the driver that took him there, standing there in a tuxedo, helping him with the door. He has his suitcase and his cane (which he needs to walk with), and is 58 years old.
Sure, he's doing a B & E / robbing the house.
I'm sorry, the cop is an idiot. Did he have to go through the motions? Sure. Did he need to arrest this guy? Only if he's an idiot. Once the guy had provided ID and it had been checked, the officer is only being harassive to do anything to Gates, other than say, "Sorry, false alarm. Have a nice day.", and anybody who beleives differently hasn't put themselves in Gates' situation.
July 23, 2009 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not one of those statements purports with the facts in the police and news reports.
July 23, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just jumping the thread to say thanks for digging up the police report, which isn't referenced in thousands of silly reactions all over the internet.
Even commenters who don't believe a word of that report should applaud Des for shedding more light on this incident than the sum total of so many other blogs and articles in the M$M.
Highly recommended!
July 23, 2009 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do know this. Assume this was a white guy coming back from a fun-filled day at the shooting range with his .357 in hand who had had trouble with his lock and been mistaken for a robber by the neighbors. Assume and the cops had entered the house and demanded i.d. and then gotten pissed off and arrested him anyway, even after he showed it to them, because they didn't like him spouting NRA lines about "jack booted thugs."
Does anyone really doubt that all the white wingnut guys on TV who are busily making up facts that would justify the cops' actions would be going full monkey ballistic over this unwarranted (literally) invasion into this man's castle due merely to his exercising his constatootional right to bear arms? Does anyone doubt that Beck and his ilk would be hinting broadly that said white guy would have been within his rights to shoot the cops?
July 22, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did not read the police report till its end, but it clearly states that Gates was found in his own home, and while being a bit of a testy asshole, produced an identification, picture ID of a Harvard faculty.
Then policeman rather than being sorry for misunderstanding called Harvard police to verify, which to me was just an annoying manouver. Sometimes when a policeman cannot pin anything on you then he tries to waste your time. So I did not read how the policeman managed to bring Gates out of the house to make his behavior a PUBLIC nuisance that "startled two pedestrians" (horror!) but it seems to me that both sides went out of their way to annoy the other.
In my opinion, the professional behavior on the side of police would be to finish the investigation as soon as it was clear that no burglary is in progress.
Nevertheless, it would help if Gates learned that white and Indian professors can get annoying treatment from police as well. (Hikers follow a fence with KEEP OUT sign, a policeman comes, informs that entire area near the fence is closed to public, takes drivers licenses and faculty IDs, and then vanishes for 30 minutes to "verify".)
My final conclusion: certain important people, and certain police officers, occasionally exhibit behavior "do you know that I can screw you?". And in the example at hand, Gates was an asshole as a private citizen (who happened to be sick, tied, and in his own "castle"), while the policeman was an asshole "under the color of authority".
In particular, I see no beneficial general purpose policy that would advocate the arrest.
Advantage: Gates.
July 22, 2009 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Crowley said once he saw the Harvard ID, he called the campus police (that is probably standard) and then he called the information in and began to leave.
You're probably right that the arrest was unnecessary but it is the usual outcome of challenging a cop like that and doesn't appear based on anything other than the fact that the Professor followed the officer outside with his racial tirade and epithets while a crowd was gathering. There is a photo of him being handcuffed on his porch and he appears to be still yelling (the other cops were black and Hispanic, I believe).
In most places, certainly where I live, if someone is standing outside, loudly cursing a cop and refusing to calm down, he'll be taken in. I know people who have been arrested for refusing to show ID for that matter. I don't know why, and I could be completely off-base, but I get the feeling Prof Gates was caught up in experiencing his own subject area. He is now reportedly talking of making a documentary about racial profiling. I hope he thinks better of it if this case is going to be the centerpiece.
July 22, 2009 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Saying that you are a professor at Harvard and showing a Harvard ID does not help prove that this address is your home. It's possible that Gates didn't/doesn't have a driver's license as a lot of people in the Boston area use public transportation.
I can understand Gates being peeved and provoked. It didn't make sense to arrest Gates at the point he was arrested as other police were on the scene at that time.
Ugly incident all around.
July 22, 2009 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the point was that the cop accepted that he lived there and was trying to leave. I don't think he should have been arrested either, but that doesn't mean it was racist or not the usual consequence of berating a police officer out on the street. Disorderly conduct arrests are pretty common.
I’m not defending the police. I was stopped today in a “click-it or ticket check” line, which I believe is unwarranted search. Yesterday, my son and I happened to be in the worst part of town (populated by transients and drug abusers, mostly white and Hispanic) and after a couple of passes, a cop came up with a picture and asked my son to take off his hat for comparison. My son is white as snow and this security cam photo was obviously that of a Latino. He was then asked for ID, run and asked if he knew the guy in the pic (three cruisers pulled up by then). I really didn’t get what was going on, but I’m guessing they just wanted to check him out because of the way he dresses and where we were. A lot of different kinds of profiling goes on, including racial profiling, and I think the police usually go too far anyway.
But reading the news and police reports in this case, it sounds like Prof gates was doing the profiling by going off on this cop and assuming he was racist. The officer, according to the reports, was let into the house by Gates who was already railing at him. When he did show an ID, the officer was satisfied that this was his house and proceeded to leave.
It sounds like the officer remained calm and professional. Prof Gates would not stop and followed the cop outside screaming at him (and even vaguely threatening- ‘you don’t know who you’re messing with’). That sounds like someone just daring a cop to arrest him. They’ll usually oblige; black, white, brown or yellow. This cop and the witness who originally called in the report are being nationally crucified as racists when it appears otherwise.
July 23, 2009 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know...I saw that part about the cop realizing that.
July 23, 2009 7:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Based on what? Gates never threatened the officers, nor was there any use of fighting words. Threatening a lawsuit or to talk to a cop's superiors is not a crime. Being an asshole is not a crime. Those with the power to lock people up are supposed to exercise it judiciously.
The officer's report (written well after this had shown up on the news), which no doubt places his actions in the best possible light, supports Gates' account. He's an idiot.
For example, Gates' statement is that the officer refused to give him his name and -badge number-. The officer's statement says only that he started to give Gates his name, and then that he told gates that he had already given his name to him twice. Nowhere does the statement say that he actually told Gates his badge number or that he would provide it. (Crowley is a fairly common name-Not O'Brien, mind, but common.) The two statements are quite consistent.
Once the ID came out, the cop should have just said "I'm sorry if I offended you; it's my job to be sure. Have a nice day." If he threatens to go to your bosses, then just tell him to "do what he has to" and then leave quietly. that's it. No media story, no backlash.
Cambridge is going to pay for this one.
July 23, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Disorderly conduct. You know the law better than me, Rumpole, but by all accounts, Gates followed Crowley outside continuing to yell at him. I’m not saying anyone should be arrested for that but it happens every day.
July 23, 2009 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
This pretty much covers the legal argument. Pretty clear the officer had no grounds to arrest Gates on that particular charge. Is there a law against hurting a cop's feelings?
July 23, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wrapping his report around the law shows malice in my mind.
July 23, 2009 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, just basic human CYA and ego perhaps driven by a little too much testosterone and perceived power. If we accused every guy who was an asshole of malice, who would be left to sit on the jury?
July 23, 2009 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
See also:
Commonwealth v. Mulvey
57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 (March 14, 2003)
Police presence in and of itself does not by itself turn an otherwise purely private outburst into disorderly conduct.
The defendant was charged with disorderly conduct for yelling and pacing on private property that was set back from the road in a secluded area. There was no one around at the time except police officers. While the statute requires that the disturbance be such that it had or was likely to have an impact upon people in an area accessible to the public, the presence of police officers alone will not suffice to prove the public element.
In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.
It's better to be polite--always. But these cops did not act appropriately, and they're going to pay for it if he sues. And frankly, he should.
July 23, 2009 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the legal perspective
July 23, 2009 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't argue with that and I imagine Prof Gates would have a good chance in a public case such as this. But for someone so wise in the ways of racial profiling, he sure did push it until they took him in. I'm just saying that in less notable neighborhoods and with less notable people (I've seen people shot by the police for not a lot more antagonism than this) this is SOP for police, and I doubt most people could win a case against them for that (I realize every community has its own misdemeanor regulations and variations). At this point, I hope he does sue. At least the facts will come out and it will likely be deminished as a political issue.
July 23, 2009 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gates is not going to sue. He doesn't have a case. Rumpole's example is ridiculous.
July 23, 2009 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, the so-called ridiculous example is a summary of a reported Mass. S. Ct. decision. Feel free to read it.
So yes, he could, and if you want to look up qualified immunity, there are tons of places to check. Let me save you the headache--he ain't got it.
July 24, 2009 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Disadvantage: You
Next time read to the end. It wasn't that long.
Instead you're going with the presumptions from Gates' versions, which is exactly why I posted a link to the officer's version after several long post exchanges went on without noting them.
I said: read, comment, argue, vent.
My favorite was, "Gates told me the door was unsecurable due to a recent break attempt at his house."
Re: calling the local campus police, I believe police in campus towns often do this to keep college stuff low-key, letting students be students without escalating, etc.
July 23, 2009 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
The days of taking a police officers word as truth are long behind us; we have police officers lying under oath to thank for that. You can give no more credibility to the officer's statements than Gates'. That leaves us with little to go on. Neither, in my view, exemplified a standard for either of their professions.
July 23, 2009 8:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gotta go with Jonnie on this this one, though cops should be expected to have more restraint than civilians. They should have understood that the man would be a little pissed at being treated like a criminal in his own home and figured out a way to diffuse the situation through the threats at their employ while apologizing for any misunderstanding.
We are their bosses and should be treated accordingly once no criminal activity is detected. The police sound out of line but certainly not racist, though I don't think every complaints about their behavior should be classified as accusing them of that crime.
July 23, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gates was in his home. He was Constitutionally protected. Gates says he has no problem with his neighbor calling police. Gates' problem is with the police. The officer states that Gates "appeared to be" the owner of the home. The maintenance crew ID'ed Gates. Gates was on the phone asking someone to get in touch with the chief of police. Gates knew from a legal standoint that once he crossed the threshold of his home, that there was a possiblity that he could be arrested as a trespassing suspect and taken to jail. The police would have needed a warrant to drag him out of his home. Despite having the proper ID, Gates wound up being arrested, not for trespassing, but for disorderly conduct.
The truth of the tale is that many Whites can step back and take a "clinical" look at the picture and say that Gates should have behaved better , been appreciative, and just shut up. This is understandable. I cannot fully comprehend how deeply some Jewsish people may have felt about the attack on DC Holocaust Museum. The sexism directed at Hillary Clinton had to be pointed out to me. Try as we might, it is difficult to really put ourselves in the other person's shoes.
Whites are unaware that deopending on the community, you may be stopped because the car you are driving is too nice. You may be followed in stores. Taxis may pass you by. As I'm watching CNN's Black in America 2, a Black psychiatrist is talking about the fact that for many White American successful Blacks are virtually invisible. Successful Blacks do not fit the stereotype. You run into Whites who are condescending in their interaction with you
despite being wealthier and better educated then they are. The CNN special also tells the story of a wealthy Black student who was called a n-----r by one of his teachers at Haverford College. Privilege is no barrier to racism.
If you have a series of events occur over time, you much reach a point where you are just sick and tired of being sick and tired. Gates' reaction may have been a reflection of such a series of events. Blacks can relate. Many whites do not.
Most Blacks get understand Gates was coming from in his interaction with the police officer. Gates is home and just wanted to be left alone. Some Whites will pacify themselves by telling themselves that the same thing would have happened to a boisterous White person. Blacks will reflect on shootings of unarmed Blacks by police deparments and tell themselves and be skeptical.
At the end of the day, most Blacks will side with Gates and say despite what Gates said, he was in his home and the police should have just left. The hancuffing was to put Gates in his place. Many Whites will continue to say that Gates should have just just cooperated.
At the end of the day, few minds will be changed.
Two views of the same events.
July 22, 2009 10:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
From what I can glean from each version, neither man comprehended quickly enough where the other person was coming from.
The cop arrived to investigate a report of a potential crime taking place. If he had walked into a burglary in progress, he could be in danger (if the burglar was armed), right? He can't know that the man who claims he is Gates is in fact Gates. It's his job to cover all the bases and get the information he receives from Gates confirmed by a third party. What if Gates was a burglar posing as the homeowner? The cop can't know anything for sure until he double-checks everything he's being told. The cop doesn't get the necessary information to put the investigation to rest.
Meanwhile, Gates is scared shitless and panics. All he can think is why am I being harassed by the cops? Because I'm black. I didn't do anything wrong! This would never happen to a white man! Who knows what all is going through his head. Interestingly, he reveals that his autonomic nervous system is triggered (he feels the hairs on the back of his neck stand up): In other words, his fight-or-flight response is activated. Sounds like he chose to fight. Not just for himself but for all African Americans, something that would be completely lost on the cop.
Gates never realizes that the cop was there to help in the first place. From the start, Gates fears the cop. His reaction is not rational, although he tries to intellectualize his physiological response. Instead of identifying "fight-or-flight," Gates identifies "black man in America gets fucked by cops."
Cops want to be feared, and yet a fearful reaction is what gets lots of ordinary citizens Tasered.
July 23, 2009 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think you've nailed it, RTBG. The problem is that after a truce was called and both parties admitted it was an 'unfortunate incident,' Gates then went out on a crusade against this "racial profiling." He is going to use it politically, otherwise it would have died the quick media death it deserved. Now he has the President of the U.S. implying the Cambridge Police are stupid and racist. The good Reverend Sharpton is coming out now. I don't know this cop, but labeling someone racist who is not that, somehow seems racist itself.
July 23, 2009 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your commentary could be considered racist. You are definitely showing a bias against the blacks you mention. Are you a racist? I don't know.
July 23, 2009 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
No it couldn't.
Don Key qualified his statement perfectly with words like "somehow" and "seems" and admitting he wasn't able to come to a "definite" conclusion: I don't know this cop, but labeling someone racist who is not that, somehow seems racist itself.
Are you an oaf? Because it seems subtlety is not your strong suit.
July 23, 2009 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Gates then went out on a crusade against this "racial profiling." He is going to use it politically, otherwise it would have died the quick media death it deserved. Now he has the President of the U.S. implying the Cambridge Police are stupid and racist. The good Reverend Sharpton is coming out now."
This is inflammatory rhetoric. Is it race based or politically based? You tell me.
As far as me being an oaf, if my words are blunt that does not make me stupid, uncultured or a clumsy person. It only shows your lack of comprehension as to the words you choose.
July 23, 2009 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not inflammatory when you restore the part where Don Key says, The problem is that after a truce was called and both parties admitted it was an 'unfortunate incident'...
For some reason you left that part of his comment out. I guess because it's the part that modulates the tone.
July 23, 2009 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
And I always thought it was totally useless to argue with an oaf like jonnienohands, but...
During this exchange I noticed that my moniker has the same consonants in the same order as readytoblowagasket!
Rutabaga...
readytoblowagasket...
Who knew?
July 23, 2009 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice to have a kind remark from TPM'S version of Rush Limbaugh.
July 23, 2009 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that "oaf" isn't exactly the right epithet for jonnienohands. In my bar-crawling post-adoloescence, I drank beer and shot pool with all sorts of relatively oafish individuals, and a good time was had by all.
But when jonnienohands accuses a commenter like Don Key of racism, on the basis of nothing, "oaf" is too good a word, which gasket substituted for something more accurate, with her usual délicatesse.
jonnienohands is just a nasty little jerk.
July 23, 2009 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you insist that his comments could not be considered racist. When quite obviously they could be. None of these little asides you've mentioned negate the impact of his questioning the motivations of three black men. Don is a big boy. He doesn't need your feeble excuses. If he has a problem with what I've written he can certainly respond to me.
July 23, 2009 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Am I going to respond to your question- am I a racist? Wouldn't you rather know when I last beat my wife? How about you? Are you disabled or an expert cyclist or is your moniker just a joke on disabled people?
July 23, 2009 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was born with no hands. I don't see what relevance that has to this thread.
I merely suggested your words could be perceived as racist commentary. I also offered political bias as a reason for your vitriol.
July 23, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I meant no offense (and actually thought it had something to do with cycling because I've seen that nickname before in that context). But the question was simply meant as an example of your question to me.
On the political side, I do have a political bias against Sharpton in these kinds of situations (though I liked him as a candidate). And I do have a problem (more an open question really) with one of Professor Gate's projects, though I think he's an established scholar. I think that, after the fact here, Prof Gates is making political hay out of this, but I don't see how any of that translates into questioning whether I'm racist.
July 23, 2009 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did not question whether you were a racist. It may have appeared so, but it was not my intention. There is much irony in the fact that the comments based on this story, which is 1 part fact and 9 parts perception, has led to my having to defend a perceived bias. Gasket had part of it right, I'm not subtle in my approach. I used your comment because it exemplified the discussion, it could be read several ways.
I used your comment as a rhetorical device. If you were offended, you have my sincerest apologies.
I pride myself on helping others and strive to do no harm. Thank you for your considered response.
July 23, 2009 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me too and thanks. I was clumsy in trying to say the same thing (that your questions could be read with different intents). Political correctness sometimes ends up causing more miscommunication and division than resolving it. I was questioning the political results more than the motivations of those three. Anyway, peace. We're probably closer in our thinking than it comes out.
July 23, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't the president say "The Cambridge police acted stupidly?"
That's not implying that they are stupid. That's stating that the act was stupid. There is a difference, as any child psychologist will tell you.
July 23, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
The computer ate my reply, Orlando, but suffice it to say that I should have said “acted stupidly.” And, in response to Jason, I think the President was implying that this was a case of racial profiling. I think the President’s comments are impolitic to say the least and are probably more divisive on the issue of race. He is standing by his remarks today and still doesn’t have the facts- "...to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.
Obama talked about racial profiling in the context of this case, implying that this officer who actually teaches anti-racial profiling classes to other police officers and tried to save a black basketball player’s life with mouth to mouth CPR, was racist here. Witness accounts say that the officer was calm but Prof Gates would not stop yelling. The PD says that the radio transmission was recorded and Gates yelling epithets is all that is heard. That the officer did not respond in kind when he is being called racist and his mother insulted, etc. would seem to show that he wasn’t acting out of anger or vengeance. I have a definition of disorderly conduct below and how it’s usually used (and I agree, often abused) by law enforcement but this case does not sound extraordinary in any way.
July 23, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama said the cops acted stupidly AND that racial profiling may in fact have occurred.
From the moment the officer was called to the scene with a black suspect in mind and found a black resident in the home, the idea that a mistake could be made is hardly controversial. That the president said the police officer acted stupidly is not a charge of racism but a statement of fact. The man did act stupidly and should have known the law better.
An allegation of implied meaning isn't the same thing as a confirmation of actual meaning.
I think it is safe to assume that unless Barack said, "Those cops are racists for harassing my black friend in his black home..." he probably doesn't think that is the case and wasn't implying anything of the sort. Obama has always seemed to seek a greater understanding on all of our parts with regards to matters of race as far as I can tell. He may have made some moves I disagree with, but this isn't one of them.
I saw him using this incident as another learning opportunity for all involved and not as a way to accuse either party of anything beyond being stupid. A charge that none of us can escape.
July 23, 2009 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama didn't call the cop a racist, though he did say he acted stupidly. I would tend to agree with that assessment. He then took up the charges his friend leveled about how racial profiling may have happened initially in this case and still happens every day in every city in America.
That still isn't calling anyone a racist and certainly could have been the case. We'll never know as no one would ever tell the truth.
I think that even if a "truce" was called, a police officer has the obligation to defuse situations like that without arresting people or getting hot under the collar. Disorderly conduct, absent some other mitigating factor like alcohol or drugs, should be a ticket with a hefty fine. Teach them a lesson about being a dick, but don't arrest them.
I think the guy over-reacted, which was stupid, which is what the president seemed to be commenting on.
July 23, 2009 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bullshit. Gates wasn't scared or panicky. He was irritated by a cop who decided to "put him in his place" after the uppity black man asks him for his badge number. Your assumption that Gates was scared is based on your stereotypes and biases, not personal knowledge of Skip Gates.
I can't claim to know Gates, but I have met him on several occasions. He's a man firmly in control of himself and would not have "panicked" when confronted by an obnoxious cop. He wanted the badge number to file a complaint. When he followed the cop onto his porch, the cop slapped the cuffs on with a jacked up disorderly charge.
Bullshit again. Gates realized from the start why the cop was there. When he went to get his ID, the cop followed him into the house uninvited, which would piss off anyone. It was the cop's subsequent actions that exacerbated the situation, not Gates' understandable outrage.
You're giving the cop a pass for unprofessional and illegal behavior. Don't blame the outraged citizen. Blame the cop who was trying to cover his ass and avoid the complaint from the outraged citizen with a trumped up arrest that was bounced by his superiors when they got wind of the inevitable shitstorm.
July 23, 2009 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Still, the cop had a photo ID and lots of other reasons to assume this wasn't such a dangerous situation. A certain amount of caution going in is understood, but to continue to act as if something criminal is going on after confirmation there isn't was where the officer went wrong. At that point, Gates was a civilian in a nice house with Harvard ID.
A politically astute cop would have apologized for the inconvenience and left. He would have either ignored or simply used different tactics to defuse Gates misplaced anger and/or fear. He certainly wouldn't have made a bad situation worse by arresting a man for mouthing off.
That sounds like dick waving to me.
July 23, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! Yes, it sounds like that to me too.
July 23, 2009 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? He can do anything he wants as long as he's on his property?
July 23, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, I do not see much utility in calling Harvard police, even if this is a "standard procedure". Second, a cop could choose to be consiliatory or annoying, and according to his report, he was somewhat annoying, and very much so according to Gates.
Also, the fact that Gates did not calm down EVEN AFTER BEING HANDCUFFED does not strike me as strange. Points for the police: they did not slam his face on the pavement, or taze him, after all, Cambridge is a progressive community, much more so than, say, Austin, Texas.
July 22, 2009 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
For those who didn't make it through the police report, the cop does seem to identify himself as "Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police" and that he was "investigating a report of a break in progress". At that point it seems Gates had not handed over his ID and instead was calling the chief of police to complain. The officer recognized that Gates was likely a resident but did not understand Gates' attitude.
When Gates gave him his University ID, the cop called the Cambridge University police, probably to turn it over to them and the University likes to handle its own. Etc., etc.
Presumably police dispatch should have recordings of quite a lot of that.
July 23, 2009 1:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
There are pretty big discrepancies in the two accounts (Gates says he gave his license for instance). Why is it that only the cop's narrative seems to count here. You put both statements up saying both should be given a fair hearing, but only treat one party as if they are honest. What basis do you have to imply the cop telling the truth, and not Gates?
July 23, 2009 3:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
COPS DON'T LIE. LMAO
July 23, 2009 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone ignored the cop's version in 2 or 3 posts here at TPM. I'm providing some balance. Sure, it could be the cop's completely lying, or both are a bit confused.
July 23, 2009 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read the officer's report when this story first broke.
July 23, 2009 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
KGB,
The discrepancies by and large don’t go to the issue of whether Gates followed the officer outside yelling at him causing a public disturbance. Gates has made conflicting statements about this (at one point, saying he could not yell at all because of a bronchial infection, whereas a witness who took the picture of him being arrested from across the street says Prof Gates was yelling and agitated but that the police seemed calm (the picture supports both of those contentions).
Gates and Crowley booth say that Crowley accepted that he was who he was whether he showed a DL or not, so it isn’t an issue. Again, I think the arrest was ill-advised though routine when a cop is challenged, but there is no evidence (other than Prof Gate’s screaming it) that this was racially motivated. BTW, Crowley happens to be the guy who rushed out and gave Reggie Lewis, the (AA) Boston Celtic basketball player, mouth to mouth resuscitation when he collapsed and died back in the ‘90s. Just sayin.
July 23, 2009 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you read the police report, Crowley is clear Gates never left his own porch. If you read my comments, it's pretty clear I don't think it was racism. However, it was false arrest.
What Crowley attempted was an intentional set up that I have personally seen an officer (Fairfax County) train our security guards to emulate - including how to creatively write up the report to maximize the likelihood of conviction.
The whole point is to get an individual who is angry onto public property so you can take them down. If he had gotten Gates to come to the sidewalk, Gates would be screwed. He didn't. On the porch is still on private property - Crowley let anger get the better of him and screwed up. Without some sort of plausible indicator of violent intent, simply yelling from your own porch isn't a crime ... even yelling at a cop. A local jury might convict, but it would never withstand an appeal.
July 23, 2009 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems like you don't like to read anything but the police report (which couldn't possibly contain any mendacity, could it?): according to Gates, he was on the phone with the property manager when the cop showed up. This was confirmed by the property manager in other reports. If you were a burglar, would you be using the house phone when the cops show up? (of course, if you were a burglar, would you be 60 years old with a cane? Wait. Reverse that: if you were 60 years old with a cane recovering from hip replacement surgery, would you be a burglar?)
July 23, 2009 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Observation skills are not part of a police officers job. Those limping guys can run fast:)
July 23, 2009 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
July 23, 2009 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gates is a nightmare.
There are some people you never want to be in an emergency situation with. Henry Louis Gates is one of those people. Judging by the direct quotes the cop gives in his report, it appears Gates has not a shred of common sense, and that actually makes the cop's story more credible.
Here's a multiple-choice test for the academic crowd: If you know that black men are subjected to higher levels of arrest, harassment, and abuse by cops, what's the first thing you should do when confronted by the police?
A) Scream at a cop who has arrived to investigate a potential crime at your house.
B) Accuse a cop of racism.
C) Ask the cop why he wants you to come outside and speak with him, using the phrase, "Why? Because I'm a black man in America?"
D) Tell the cop he doesn't know who he's messing with as you speed-dial an assistant to get the chief of police (whose name escapes you) on the horn pronto!
E) All of the above.
July 22, 2009 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suppose he should of just kow-towed and apologized for causing the police to come out there for nothing. Maybe offer them some lemonade.
July 23, 2009 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
YASSA MASSA.
July 23, 2009 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
F) The officer covered his ass in the report.
July 23, 2009 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Based on what? Gates never threatened the officers, nor was there any use of fighting words. Threatening a lawsuit or to talk to a cop's superiors is not a crime. Being an asshole is not a crime. Those with the power to lock people up are supposed to exercise it judiciously.
The officer's report (written well after this had shown up on the news), which no doubt places his actions in the best possible light, supports Gates' account. He's an idiot.
For example, Gates' statement is that the officer refused to give him his name and -badge number-. The officer's statement says only that he started to give Gates his name, and then that he told gates that he had already given his name to him twice. Nowhere does the statement say that he actually told Gates his badge number or that he would provide it. (Crowley is a fairly common name-Not O'Brien, mind, but common.) The two statements are quite consistent.
Once the ID came out, the cop should have just said "I'm sorry if I offended you; it's my job to be sure. Have a nice day." If he threatens to go to your bosses, then just tell him to "do what he has to" and then leave quietly. that's it. No media story, no backlash.
Cambridge is going to pay for this one.
July 23, 2009 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Earl Ofari Hutchinson says, some will never admit there is such a thing as racial profiling.
July 23, 2009 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, when a black man is reported breaking into a house, and the police arrive, they shouldn't question the black man standing inside?
July 23, 2009 1:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not if it's Henry Louis Gates.
July 23, 2009 2:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Priceless!
July 23, 2009 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, they should question him. But once its beyond dispute that he resides in the homse, they should get the hell outta there. No matter what anyone says about this case, he was arrested for causing a disturbance in a "public space", which is pretty tough to do from your own house.
July 23, 2009 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do believe they were trying to leave here, but I agree that cops should be more tough-skinned and objective about those who berate or abuse them and consider the circumstance. But I will most certainly be arrested if I step out onto my porch naked, squawking and doing a chicken dance (whereas, I do that all the time inside my house).
July 23, 2009 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, at least put some pee-stained undies on if you're gonna do that in the yard.
July 23, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have no reply to your rapier wit and considerable powers of debate, Dorn. Give me a call when you have something to say.
July 23, 2009 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh Ready, your analysis is a nightmare.
It was 12:30 in the afternoon...and Gates could have stood on his porch and sang f-the police naked {ok maybe not f-the police and maybe not naked} or whatever. He was not a threat to anyone. Nor was peace being disturbed. {I've lived in that area} No riots were gonna break out on Ware street.
The sergeant arrested him on his own porch. The sergeant effed-up. I mention Sergeant because it was his job to handle the situation. He failed. I don't know why...but he did.
July 23, 2009 1:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you know what Cambridge police protocol is for handling situations that get out of hand? I don't happen to know myself, but I do know there would be specific steps the officer would be required to take. What we don't yet know is whether the officer handled the situation properly or not, at least according to department procedure.
Therefore, we don't yet have enough information to come to your conclusion that the sergeant "effed-up."
Obviously, it was bad PR, but that's actually irrelevant.
July 23, 2009 1:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
You would call an elderly gentleman standing on his own porch speaking their mind loudly, clearly with no intent of moving off their own property, a situation that was "out of hand"?
What would have the impact on society been if the officer had simply gotten in their squad car and driven away? Isn't it pretty likely that the guy would have stopped being "boisterous"?
Ever heard of the 1st Amendment? Americans used to fight to defend it.
July 23, 2009 3:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Both sides have admitted the situation was "out of hand," so I'm going by their own admissions. They actually both agree on that point.
July 23, 2009 8:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Out of hand from an interpersonal standpoint is significantly different than out of hand from a law enforcement standpoint.
The officer is required to make an assessment based on danger to the community and violation of law.
July 23, 2009 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here you go: Obama is using the term "out of hand" too. I guess Obama is "following" me at TPM.
July 23, 2009 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, "Out of hand" means something different when you are talking about a law enforcement situation. Millions of people can discuss the interpersonal aspect of the confrontation - using whatever words they choose - and it doesn't change the officer's responsibility to define his actions based on danger to the community and violation of law.
So you never answered the question: What would have the impact on the community been if the officer had simply driven away? Is there even a remote chance that Gates would have broken any laws or placed himself or others in danger? If so, under what scenario?
If not, then from a law enforcement standpoint, the situation was simply not out of hand. There was no risk beyond the officer's feeling he had lost face in an interpersonal conflict; engaging in which is beneath a truly professional law enforcement officer.
July 23, 2009 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't answer your question because I don't owe you an answer. I'm not interested in your hypothetical scenarios, I'm interested in what actually happened.
July 23, 2009 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Such a hypothetical scenario is the only one under which Crowley's actions would be legal.
It's OK ... I know you have a physical inability to admit when you are wrong. [pats horribly misinformed fellow commenter on shoulder]
July 23, 2009 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! You have no idea what the hell you're talking about. If Crowley did something illegal, then Gates can file a lawsuit against him. That's what courts are for.
Until a lawsuit is filed or until Crowley is disciplined, your hypothetical is moot.
Here's a hypothetical for you: There won't be a lawsuit because Gates did not behave in a way that he will want rehashed and revealed in excruciating witness-stand detail in a courtroom. This is already abundantly clear, or else Gates would be threatening a lawsuit. That tells us Gates may have been even more abusive than Crowley in fact reported.
July 23, 2009 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Abusive? Insulting perhaps, but far from abusive. Verbal abuse takes an extended period of time under very personal circumstances. As big of an asshole as Gates' apparently was in this situation, he was hardly being abusive.
July 24, 2009 8:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
And BTW:
I'd say that's a pretty good indicator the charges were bogus. Seems pretty much all over but the cash settlement the good people of Cambridge will likely have to pay as a result of this poor excuse for an officer.
Hopefully Gates gives the money to an organization that pursues actions against bad cops.
July 23, 2009 4:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, it's not an indicator that the charge is bogus. The Cambridge Police have a close relationship with Harvard and its community, and causing a big antagonistic stir with its pre-eminent black scholar is a PR headache and definitely not worth the trouble.
July 23, 2009 6:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
So they would drop substantiated charges to mollify their relationship with campus police, that's laughable.
July 23, 2009 8:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bullshit. Every community has people too big to bust on petty charges. Was Cynthia McKinney ever charged for hitting a cop? Does that prove she didn't do it?
July 23, 2009 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, at least you acknowledge the charges were petty.
But as I recall, Cynthia McKinney's case went to a grand jury. That means charges were referred. The grand jury decided there wasn't evidence to hand up an indictment.
In the case of Gates, the police and the DA declined to move the process forward - you do see the difference, right?
July 23, 2009 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
So they make procedural exceptions based on status, if one's status is perceived to be high and would never make procedural make procedural exceptions if one's status were perceived to be low. That makes perfect sense; how about they just follow procedure?
July 23, 2009 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a nice dodge which leaves open the possibility Gates did something worth arresting him for. Sorry, try again.
July 23, 2009 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, the charge was bogus.
1) They were not in a "public place." The porch, yard and other surrounding land, "curtilage" in legalese, are legally exactly the same as your house.
2) Under state law, "To be disorderly, within the sense of the statute [that Gates was charged with violating], the conduct must disturb through acts other than speech; neither a provocative nor a foul mouth transgresses the statute." Commonwealth v. LePore, 40 Mass. App. Ct. 543 , 546 (1996). Thus, in Commonwealth v. Lopiano, 60 Mass. App. 723, 805 N.E.2d 522, 525 (2004), the Massachusetts Court of Appeals found no "violent or tumultuous behavior," where the defendant, "flailed his arms and shouted at the police" about alleged violations of his civil rights upon being informed he was being summonsed to court (but not arrested) for assault and battery.
Is it too much to expect a cop to be aware of such fine points of the law? I think not when the law in question is "disturbance of the peace," the police officer's all purpose tool for running somebody in for pissing him off.
It's a bullshit arrest and the reports are transparent exercises in after-the-fact ass-coverage. I especially liked the part where both officer's versions aligned perfectly with each other.
July 23, 2009 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say that pretty much covers it from a legal standpoint. Now it's all a matter of who the biggest asshole was. I still pick the police officer who should have known the laws he is meant to enforce.
July 23, 2009 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for this, I had wondered how the word tumultuous ended up in a police report. He wrapped his report around the law. This places the officer in a not so innocent position.
July 23, 2009 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve, you can be charged with disorderly conduct in your home or at least that's the case in New York. If you are screaming on your front lawn or porch or blaring music and refuse to comply with an order to tone it down, you can get charged. Is it different in Boston or North Carolina?
July 23, 2009 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
{{{{{crickets}}}}}
July 24, 2009 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
In short, yes.
Via Slate:
This is quite obviously not meant to cover mere shouting.
Crowley chose the word "tumultuous" in his rather awkward phrasing in the report because it was the only one that could possibly pass muster -- in all likelihood, it is police fraternity internal knowledge as the "whatever you want it to mean" word. (Of course, a "tumult" actually means the agitation of a crowd.)
Gates' behaviour, while certainly disrespectful, loud, belligerent even (if we trust Crowley's statement, which I am inclined to do to a degree), does not fall under this criteria.
July 24, 2009 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
You might have noticed that the guy handling that explainer was from the ACLU. Facts: there was a crowd outside the front door. Gates was repeatedly warned to calm down and stop being disorderly. The office gave a final warning and took handcuffs out. He finally arrested Gates.
There is a difference between could and should. To say the officer SHOULD not have arrested Gates says that he used poor discretion in making the decision to arrest. To say the officer COULD not have arrested Gates or the arrest was illegal is not justified by the known facts. People get arrested for much less than his behavior everyday. I think the arrest was a bad use of discretion because I am opposed to stupid quality of life crimes that don't endanger the public. But you are misinformed if you think anyone other than Prof. Gates would have the case dropped in these circumstances or people are allowed to behave the way he did with no repercussions. Different rules for different classes of people.
July 24, 2009 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
The crowd outside the door has absolutely nothing to do with this, unless you are saying that Gates was successfully agitating the crowd to riot.
And, ACLU or not, they are talking about actual case law, not your extrapolations. Separate similar accounts of Massachusetts law were linked to by at least in two other occasions on the board (by JEM and I-forget-who), so I really do not think the interpretation is in any way questionable.
He fucked up, plain and simple. It is not an unforgivable offence, nor was it -- in my opinion -- racially charged. I could say many a thing about Gates' behaviour, for I have no problems believing he was belligerent in the end at least, but there is a huge difference between the responsibilities and duties of a private citizen and a police officer.
July 24, 2009 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
If he COULD not have arrested Gates, then he wouldn't be receiving the backing of his Police Department and Gates would sue for wrongful arrest. But he won't because he has no case. Steve's a lawyer so he's going to cite (and interpret) case law to support his desired outcome. That's what lawyers do. If this case went to trial, a lawyer like Steve would make the argument to the court that Gates' actions didn't rise to the level of disorderly conduct.
No one in any position of authority in MA has even questioned whether the officer had legal authority to arrest for disorderly conduct given the circumstances. Period. Any definitive statements that the cop made an illegal arrest are ill-informed.
July 24, 2009 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
(Not sure if "releasing Gates right away and dropping charges" qualifies as "support" by the P.D.)
I have been careful with my wording, I hope, and NCSteve undoubtedly has if you are referring to him.
I stated above that the arrest was unlawful, which is not the same as illegal. On the other hand, Gates did not do anything illegal, and should therefore not have been arrested.
Based on the available, conflicting stories, Gates should not try to press charges - I trust that you see I have not called for such - but his lawyer would not be doing his job if he failed to investigate whether there was wrongdoing. Private apologies are in order, and police departments all around should take note to bone up on conflict resolution and revisit their role as public trustees.
July 24, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Cambridge police protocol is to arrest Gates in this instance then we know why the Sergeant effed-up. Because he was trained to by bad protocol.
It seems you cannot admit this was an Eff-up by the police.
July 23, 2009 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Cambridge police protocol is to arrest Gates in this instance then we know why the Sergeant effed-up. Because he was trained to by bad protocol.
It seems you cannot admit this was an Eff-up by the police.
July 23, 2009 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neither can Obama.
July 23, 2009 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahh thats his spokesperson spinning it palatable for those who can't handle that the police effed-up. Here's the man himself:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-i-am-surprise-by-the-controversy-over-my-comments-on-gates-arrest.php
"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement because I think it was a pretty straight forward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.
...
"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."
The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."
But I don't care what the president's views are as far as my own assessment goes;
Gates should not have been arrested.
If you think he should have been arrested or that maybe he should have been arrested, fine. I hope you have no decision making power in these matters because I question your judgement.
July 23, 2009 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's my take on the officer's report:
The officer makes a factual misrepresentation in the first sentence. The incident happened in Gates' home and the arrest occurred on Gates' porch. There are pictures of him being taken off his porch in handcuffs. The officer represents that this happened in a public place, a requisite for an arrest on the trumped-up charge he decided to use as justification. Being in the view or within earshot of the public does not make private property public. The officer had to return to the citizen's land, and climb their stairs to make the arrest.
It's simple. An American on their own property can be boisterous, angry, insulting, demeaning, and insistent that another person leave or that they provide a badge number if they have physically entered a private home without a warrant. Once it was settled that this was the lawful resident of the private property and that the original call had been a misunderstanding and no crime had been committed, there was no longer probable cause. The only legal course of action would be for the officer to fully identify themselves by providing their state-issued officer ID number, ignore what he felt to be insults and leave the private property. By his own account, the officer never provided his state-issued ID number.
There was also no imperative to have an in-depth radio conversation with dispatch at that point. A simple "This situation is 10-22, in contact with resident. Will advise." would have been appropriate. It would be interesting to hear the dispatch tapes to see what exactly the officer felt was so important. Considering it was not possible for the events as described to unfold with the officer actually making radio calls, this is likely false reporting.
Any time I've asked for a badge number, the officer responded that if I wanted to make things difficult, I'd learn just how difficult they could really be. The badge # is a power trip. Usually the officer makes some bluster, takes the hint that you know your rights and backs off - but don't give the number (longhairs also get the business occasionally). While the officer uses the word "name" in the report, there were enough witnesses that I'd imagine Gates' assertion that he was demanding a badge number would be borne out - which would be another incident of questionable, if not flat out false, reporting.
So, according to his own account, the officer told an upset man demanding his badge number that he would speak to him outside; insisted that if Gates wanted further information that he must follow. The officer led Gates to a location where he felt he could take the upper hand, and told him to get back in his place. When Gates didn't, as would be predictable, the officer showed him his place - under arrest (ha! placed under arrest ... get it? oh, never mind).
What the officer did was conduct an ego-based false arrest (based on the smooth setup, unlikely his first). A security guard with 2 days training knows this. A cop simply doesn't care because there is rarely, if ever, repercussion for their actions. No matter how far outside their mandate they go, there is always some bonehead eager to lend a ready excuse in the victim's tone of voice, lack of deference, or "aggressive" demeanor. This time, there were repercussions.
Obama was right, the officer's decision to pick this fight was stupid; he already lost when Gates didn't take his "step out on the sidewalk" bait. Officers like this should be removed from the force. They place law abiding citizens at risk and cost the taxpayers lots of money.
The question if gates is a total schmuck or not (my take is yeah, he's a prick) is irrelevant. A professional officer would not have allowed the situation to escalate to an arrest. A professional would have provided a badge number and walked away to diffuse the situation; allowing a different officer to handle calming the upset citizen down if necessary. This arrest occurred because the officer wanted to punish someone who wouldn't shut up when told, not because of a legitimate crime.
July 23, 2009 3:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
So did you catch the picture that definitively showed Obama checking out a girl's ass?
The officer stated that they got Gates' cane for him and they discussed who will secure his house in his absence and they switched the handcuffs from behind his back to in front when they were too tight/inconvenient for his limp. Did Gates go back in the house during this? Possibly, we don't know. There were presumably lots of officers and other observers at that point, and the difference between his being on his porch and near the sidewalk would be pretty easy to confirm.
Sgt. Crowley states that he gave his name several times, and finally got tired of trying to speak over Gates. True? I have no idea. I have 2 versions, Gates' & Crowley's. Presumably there are some dispatch recordings to confirm or refute Crowley, and possibly Gates' when he tried to call the Chief of Police.
July 23, 2009 5:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you even read the Crowley's police report? It clearly states, and I quote:
You are debating a point even the officer doesn't question. He tried to draw Gates out on to the sidewalk, when Gates didn't follow and kept making loud demands ... the officer returned to the property to make an arrest. Gates never left his own porch according to the officer's report.
You are bending over backwards to try and create ambiguity where little exists.
Having a bit more experience with incident reports than you seem to, I see cause for concern in Crowley's report. It would appear that both Crowley's superiors and the DA agree with me because they dropped all charges.
Now, as a result of this guy's ego - the city finds themselves in a very actionable position ... having to pay lawyers to prep a defense for the inevitable civil case and likely a settlement. As I said, his actions put law abiding citizens at risk (Gates IS a law abiding citizen, despite becoming irate) and will cost the taxpayers tons of money.
His actions are not a credit to the force.
July 23, 2009 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've read both accounts and remain confused about the circumstances of the officer entering the home--that is, crossing the threshold. In the officer's statement, he does say he notified his dispatch that he was "off in the residence" and this apparently occurred (according to the Prof) when the Prof closed the front door and went into the kitchen to get his ID.
Was an invitation extended to this officer? If the officer entered uninvited, I can certainly imagine the resident getting very annoyed.
This really looks like the crux of the whole incident. I'm very suspicious of the officer's statement because this has been left very unclear. Advantage: Gates.
July 23, 2009 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great analysis. After reading many of the posts, it's apparent that most of those commenting haven't taken the time to read both parties accounts of what happened and then provide objective commentary. That why I appreciate your comments. The officer should have walked away. That would have been the professional thing to do, leaving professor Gates to contemplate his own overreaction. I also believe that the President was correct in calling the Cambridge Police Department stupid for allowing this to happen. Of all the officers that converged on the home of Dr. Gates, not one step forward and said to Sgt. Crowley at the time of the arrest that it was a bad idea to escalate the situation further. I'm always amazed at how unprofesional or bad behavior usually goes unchallenged by ones peers during situations like this or like in the case of Rodney King being beat. Why is this? I'm sure the officer regrets his actions now, despite refusing to apologize(which is further stupidity).
This story is growing daily and Dr. Gates is considering legal action. Regardless of what he decides to do, I think this is a great teaching moment for everyone in America. Civility and respect should be emphasized more among the nations police departments. Rather than sitting in the squad car for an entire shift waiting for something to jump off, get out and engage the community. Get to know the people.
With that said this could've easily gone as follows:
As Dr. Gates turns around to face the front door after being on the phone, he sees Sgt. Crowley walking up and he greets him at the door saying "hey Jim is that you? What's happening?" And Sgt. Crowley responds, "We got a call about a someone breaking into your home. Is everything ok?" "Yep. It is now. I had problems getting my front door open. That must've prompted the call to you guys. Thanks for showing up so quickly", Gates replies. "No problem says Sgt Crowley. "It's good to see that everything is okay. Take care Skip." "You to Jim" replies Skip Gates as Sgt. Crowley returns to his car and drives off. - The End
July 23, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
KGB999 writes - "It's simple. An American on their own property can be boisterous, angry, insulting, demeaning, and insistent that another person leave or that they provide a badge number if they have physically entered a private home without a warrant."
Really? If on your own property you can do anything you want? Think again.
July 23, 2009 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, they can be "an be boisterous, angry, insulting, demeaning, and insistent...."
July 23, 2009 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Glad you are here, my shoulder was getting sore from all the typing.
July 23, 2009 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just keeping it real, but my shoulders are taking a beating as well. :O)
July 23, 2009 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can get arrested for things even when done within the bounds of your own private property
July 24, 2009 5:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can't get arrested for being "boisterous, angry, insulting, demeaning, and insistent" though.
As far as I can tell from the laws on the books, that such behavior is still legal absent other circumstances. The cop was wrong and I am surprised to find someone who seems be mostly old school conservative justifying such an abuse of authority because the professor hurt his feelings.
We need to stop this sort of shit before it gets even more out of hand than it already is.
July 24, 2009 6:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think we have established you certainly can get arrested for it :)
July 24, 2009 6:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, but not legally.
July 24, 2009 6:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Would you care to share with us what the actual law says that makes you think it wasn't right for him to be arrested?
My understanding is that the law itself is intentionally very vague as most laws are. It cites actions including "disturbers of the peace" and "keepers of noisy and disorderly houses" that are crimes punishable by fines and/or jail time
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-53.htm
July 24, 2009 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least one actual ruling by the Massachusetts's court was cited here. Even the definition you provided doesn't seem to fit this particular situation when judged against the applicable case law.
July 25, 2009 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it's that clear cut. The section of the law I provided seems to provide enough latitude with respect to disturbance of the peace.
I don't think that one single case you cite can be used as the basis for all other instances. Is not clear that the actions performed by the defendants in the other case were the same as what Gates was doing.
July 25, 2009 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Laws are interpreted via precedent set by the state courts. Those rulings, typically single rulings, are what eventually make it to the supreme court and set the laws of the nation.
The original law was written with a certain latitude that have been circumscribed by the courts as provided by the cited case law. We don't want police officers deciding on their own how to interpret the laws they are sworn to uphold.
We have the judicial system to further refine our understanding of laws passed by the legislative branches of government, both at the state and federal levels.
July 25, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you bother to check to see if there are any other precedent cases that might have supported the police officer's actions?
July 25, 2009 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
There were presumably lots of officers and other observers at that point, and the difference between his being on his porch and near the sidewalk would be pretty easy to confirm.
--------------------------------------------------
From Crowley's police report, "I then stepped up the stairs, onto the porch and attempted to put handcuffs on Gates."
July 23, 2009 6:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point, that whole sequence confirms that Gates was on the porch during the arrest. Again, I don't contend the officer was clever or necessarily warranted in arresting Gates, and I think they could have all slipped off with Gates screaming, "Come back here, I'll bite your legs off". Perhaps Monty Python and the Holy Grail should be required viewing for police conflict avoidance techniques.
But Mr. Gates might need a training film on "when the police have a right and duty to carry out their jobs, and when citizens have the duty to cooperate and not impede an investigation".
July 23, 2009 6:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
You cherry picked the Crimson article from the Crimson:
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Students interviewed were wary of passing judgment on police or the professor without more definitive information, but several said that the professor had been treated unfairly. Kyle A. Martin '11, a proctor at Harvard for the summer, said "it certainly would appear to me to be some sort of racial bias against Professor Gates exhibited by the police officer." And Amaka C. Uzoh '11, an intern at the Harvard Foundation for Intercultural and Race Relations, said that she sympathized with Gates and that he did not deserve to face charges from police.
"Those actions definitely have a racial precedent," Uzoh said. "It's not uncommon, it has even happened to me in California." She added that in the past, she and her parents have been pulled over while driving for police questioning about how they obtained their vehicle. "Black men especially are sometimes questioned by police unnecessarily," Uzoh said.
Faculty in the department of African and African American Studies interviewed Tuesday commented more explicitly about the persistence of racial profiling in American society, noting that the police actions were indicative of a lapse of communication and racial understanding plaguing much of the country.
"This is not all that surprising that this would happen to an African American man, and even to somebody of Skip Gates' stature," said James H. Sidanius, a psychology and African American studies professor whose area of study includes institutional discrimination and group conflict. "These things happen all too often, where African Americans are disproportionally stopped by police more than others, disproportionally detained for arrest, and disproportionately found guilty and sentenced to prison."
Sidanius said he believes the incident should have stopped when Gates provided the officer with his Harvard identification and driver's license as proof that he lived in the home, and "the fact it went beyond that is unsettling."
Walter Johnson, another African American studies professor, wrote in an e-mailed statement that the charge of disorderly conduct in one's own home was absurd and that "the structure of ideas and institutions which render such action commonsensical in this society are appalling." And Michèle Lamont, a sociology and African American studies professor who specializes in American race relations, called the arrest "egregious" and said that the incident helped expose the need for broader racial dialogue not only within the Harvard community but also in the broader Cambridge area.
Lamont noted that "Boston is not reputed to have perfectly warm interracial relationships."
--------------
You tend to take the position of the police officer. I tend to believe the almost 60 year old
guy with the limp. Police need more training to help them realize the history of Black-police interactions . Even "privileged" Blacks have issues with police.
As I said, at the end of the day Black-White perceptions on this issue will remain unchanged. Nothing will be accomplished as a result of this incident. Even the President's initial reaction sides with Gates. Tom Joyner, DL Hughley and most others interview in the run-up to the CNN Black in America 2 documentary sided with Gates. Feel free to isolate on the Black who hold to your position. But think about it, you are in effect dismissing the continuing racial divide. It is uncomfortable for me to read how harsh some Whites appear to be on Gates' reaction here, but I am not dismissing their responses. You cherry-pick an answer from one African-American, to minimize the response from a larger group of people. You change Obama's words to fit your liking without blinking. The divide has to be addressed. When are we going to tackle this huge issue?
July 23, 2009 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I picked a spokesman for the Black Students Association, rather than an individual intern, yes, I did that kind of cherry-picking. I'm sure the guy who worked the parking lot and a summer student taking chemistry classes might have said something different.
July 23, 2009 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, in other words, Gates needs an education in submission to and compliance with police in his home?
July 23, 2009 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
No.
Coming from someone trained in the military, I'd say your comment is a tad disingenuous, Zipperupus.
July 23, 2009 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like the Monty Python reference, it fits perfectly. But I'm not sure that Gates wasn't sufficiently cooperative. The question becomes, how cooperative must an innocent person be and what constitutes impeding an investigation? As I posted below, Gates was cooperative enough that Crowley was able to determine that he was in fact a resident in his own house, that no crime had been committed. From Crowley's report, "I then asked Gates if he would like an officer to take possession of his house key to secure his front door."
It appears Gates went out of his way to make it difficult for Crowley. But surely its not that uncommon for people to be insulting or disrespectful to cops. Crowley handled it poorly and that makes me wonder what he expects when he deals with civilians and if he has had similar encounters before. With less well known people that didn't make front page news.
July 23, 2009 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, Crowley's probably more prepared for a street bum to act like a street bum than an educated professor whose house he's trying to protect. I'm sure there's some surprise there. If you read the one article, there's a lawyer who regularly defends clients against Crowley who has nothing but good things to say about him.
July 23, 2009 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Correction: FindLaw.
July 23, 2009 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Finlaw:
It's commonplace that most police will act to end a public disturbance (probably much sooner if it is, say, a drunk student or transient). It may not have been necessary here, but I believe Crowley had warned him to calm down four times at that point, even getting out his handcuffs, and Gates continued. The police seemed to be trying to leave and did treat him with respect (had cuffs moved, got him a cane, put him in a room with friends instead of a cell, etc.). I can't say the MO police follow is always right, but I don't see how you get either racism or stupidity out of this (without arguing that Prof Gates deserves preferential treatment).
July 23, 2009 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
There appears to be actual case law on this subject. Looks like someone can be an asshole on their own property and not be arrested for disorderly conduct in Massachusetts.
July 23, 2009 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
When exactly do I have a duty to do anything at all for the police, in my own home, when I have done nothing wrong?
July 23, 2009 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Citizens have a Constitutional right to not cooperate.
July 23, 2009 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its doubtful that we will ever know the truth about what happened here. We can only guess. Its likely that both versions are incorrect. Its likely both a lying. Its unlikely that Gates was as polite as his version suggests. Its likely he was antagonistic. Its likely that he asked for Crowley's badge number which Crowley never mentions in his report. Its likely Crowley refused to give his badge number. Its likely that Crowley left that out of the report since it reflected badly on him.
It seems clear that Gates was cooperative enough that Crowley was able to determine that he was in fact a resident in his own house, that no crime had been committed. From Crowley's report, "I then asked Gates if he would like an officer to take possession of his house key to secure his front door."
Its likely that Crowley was in the process of leaving the scene having determined no crime had been committed. Its likely that Gates continued to insult him as he left. Its likely that being insulted in front of other cops and civilians was especially rankling.
Its likely that there was a pissing match with both feeling that the each disrespected each other. Its likely that both used whatever power they had to disrespect the other in response to the disrespect they felt they had received.
Was the disrespect racially motivated? Who knows. Cops want more than respect, they usually expect very submissive behavior. The cause could be that Gates was not just unsubmissive but antagonistic and there was no racial component. Its possible that Gates had a chip on his shoulder and started the antagonistic encounter.
Since the motivation of Crowley is impossible to determine the question for me is how friendly and submissive must an innocent person be when confronted by the police to avoid arrest. Is it illegal to be unfriendly to a cop? Is it illegal to insult a cop? Is it illegal to raise one's voice to a cop?
IMO there should be a fairly high standard to the charge of disorderly conduct. Cops have to deal with much more volatile situations than this one. For example domestic fights, bar fights, drunks. Defusing tense situations should be part of their skill set. They should be able to shrug off insults.
If Gates had been in an argument with a civilian its unlikely that he would have been arrested for disorderly conduct. A person can have a verbal argument with a neighbor, get angry, raise their voice, and insult them. People are not required to treat their neighbors with respect. By any account it doesn't appear to me that Gates' behavior raised to the point that had Crowley been a civilian another cop would have arrested Gates for disorderly conduct.
There's a disturbing trend that seems to have criminalized disrespect to cops, even criminalize a lack of sufficient submission. I and some of my friends have experienced it. You can see it in the many tapes of people being tasered. Its likely what caused the Busby situation. And its likely what caused the problem with Crowley. Cops shouldn't be able to use their power as a law enforcer to sooth their bruised ego.
July 23, 2009 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded. 100 percent. Great comment. This should be a blog just to add this perspective to the discussion.
July 24, 2009 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
..............Update 2: Via the Harvard Crimson - "Damaris J. Taylor '12, alumni and public relations chair for the Harvard Black Students Association, said that based on police reports, he personally didn't think the arrest was racially motivated and that "the officer was just doing his job." But he also said that while the professor may have overreacted or even acted rudely, the police should not have issued an arrest." Hey, someone I agree with. Perhaps views across "the racial divide" don't have to be irreconcilable as is sometimes claimed.
--------------------
As I note in a post above, the comment from the Crimson is an isolated response from one African-American. The bulk of the other responses from African-Americans tend to side with Professor Gates. To take this one comment and try to minimize the racial divide is disingenuous. There are gaps in how different ethnic groups view racial progress despite the election of Barack Obama. However, unintentional it can come across as insulting when you select out the "good one" out of a host of others. In fact there is a theme that has existed since slavery of the House Negro vs the Field Negro. The House Negro was the one who would tell the master about the escape plans of the Field Negroes. Your selection of the one Black chosen as breaking the racial divide brought the House-Field imagery to mind.
There have been advances in race relations but despite the increasingly positive perceptions, most blacks feel that discrimination lingers. Asked who has a better chance to get ahead in U.S. society, fifty-one percent of blacks said white people do. Forty-four percent said both races had equal opportunity, while just one percent said blacks had an advantage.
White people, by contrast, were far more likely to see a level playing field, with 62 percent saying both races had equal opportunity. Roughly one in four white said white people have a better chance to get ahead, while seven percent of whites said black people have the better opportunities.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/27/opinion/polls/main4972532.shtml
There are simply different perceptions of the same data. Blacks likely applaud Obama for his honest response to the Gates' situation because it reflects their experiences. Whites can recoil in horror because Obama's reaction does not reflect their concept of how law enforcement is viewed.
While Clarence Thomas may side with the actions of the Cambridge police, Obama is closer to the feelings of most blacks and spoke his mind.
July 23, 2009 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Blah blah blah. I picked a SPOKESMAN for a portion of the local community who I would assume would look at the situation more carefully and weigh his words more carefully, instead of individuals flying off the cuff. That should give thinking individuals a little pause, because likely this person had a bit of input from those around him, would be familiar with the police situation around campus, and would likely have used the occasion to point out racism even if couched in more diplomatic ways. He didn't. He said he didn't see the policeman's actions as racist, but thought the final arrest was poorly handled, to which I agreed.
July 23, 2009 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
...Or he was speaking as an individual just as the other people were? I noted in a subsequent post that there was enough concern about racial profiling on campus to form an investigating committee. A Harvard sociology professor understood Gates' reaction. being a professor, she may have had a longer term history of police relations on campus than the student.
July 23, 2009 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
You don't get it, do you? I understand people being upset about racial profiling. But Gates broke into his own home or tried to, and someone called it in. It was a break-in, not a case of mistaken identity. A black man was breaking into a house. Likely more than 9 times out of 10 the black man hasn't just locked himself out.
July 23, 2009 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for acknowledging your racism.
July 23, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
He did not break in; he entered through the rear door.
July 23, 2009 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The other guy rammed the door with his shoulder to open it. It was stuck before then. That's called breaking in. To an observer on the street, that's the only sane thing to call it.
July 23, 2009 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So having someone loose a stuck door, from the outside while you are inside, is breaking in. Ridiculous.
July 23, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is some more context for life in Boston/Cambridge
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Gates' supporters cite Boston's history as a city plagued by racism as an underlying reason why this could still happen to an esteemed scholar, at midday, in his own home.
"That stain on this city – as far as persons of color are concerned – is a real one," television and radio commentator Callie Crossley said.
She recalled the case of Charles Stuart, who caused a citywide manhunt in 1989, when he said a hooded black man shot him and his pregnant wife as they got into their car. The wife died, and Stuart eventually was labeled the killer, but not before a black man arrested on unrelated charges became the prime suspect.
Stuart committed suicide the next year by jumping off a bridge.
Perhaps nothing epitomizes Boston's struggle with race relations better than the Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph taken during the uproar over forced busing of public school students in the 1970s. The photo shows a white man swinging a large pole with an American flag at a black man during a protest against the desegregation plan at City Hall.
Black students and professors at Harvard have complained for years about racial profiling by Cambridge and campus police. Harvard commissioned an independent committee last year to examine the university's race relations after campus police confronted a young black man who was using tools to remove a bike lock. The man worked at Harvard and owned the bike.
Michele Lamont, a sociology and African-American studies professor at Harvard, said she understood why Gates reacted angrily to the police officer in his home given that larger history of confrontations with police – as well as his own.
"Certainly when someone like Gates finds himself in this situation, he has in mind this baggage," Lamont said.
Crossley said many people criticizing Gates for overreacting or for losing his cool have never been profiled by authorities because of their race.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/22/james-crowley-policeman-w_n_243262.html
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Note that a committee on racial profiling was established at Harvard last year because of complains from students and professors.
July 23, 2009 9:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
So do you improve the situation of racial profiling by having educated professors rant on like crazy homeless street people to a cop that's investigating a straightforward break in report? When Martin Luther King protested, he didn't act like an idiot. When Rosa Parks protested, she didn't act like an idiot. When Branch Rickey chose Jackie Robinson, he chose someone with a thick skin who could take verbal and physical abuse. Part of why Civil Rights protests were successful was it was easy to see who was in the right.
Choosing a non-profiling case as a time to blow up about profiling didn't help anyone, did it? With Rodney King, you saw this guy who could barely move beaten time and again. With Prof. Gates, they asked his ID while investigating a break-in when he'd just broken in. Appalling. Not even like pulling someone over for driving while black.
July 23, 2009 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
A cop comes into your home uninvited when you turn your back to produce the ID he requests after you've warily declined to step out of your house at his invitation. That frosts your 'nads a little. After you hand over your driver's license and your work ID, he proceeds to call your work to verify your ID. This lack of respect and show of "I'm Da Man" lowers the temp of your 'nads a few more degrees, so you ask him for his badge number and his name, a name which he never provided in the first place. He ignores you, rachetting up the tension and puts you into the realm of indignation (and a righteous one, at that). You keep insisting on his ID (which he must provide legally), and he keeps ignoring you. Once he finishes his radio check, he turns his back on you while you're talking to/at him and leaves the building. You follow, inflamed at the cheek and step onto your porch (which is still your property), still demanding his ID and asking why he's (mis)treating you this way (since race is your frame of reference and since there doesn't seem to be any other rational explanation, you frame the question accordingly). Realizing that he has an audience of his peers (with whom he cannot lose face), he comes back up the steps and slaps the cuffs on you.
I don't know what your ego's like, but given Skip Gates' stature and bona fides, and considering that he's been disrespected and dismissed as a street thug by a cop who CLEARLY didn't know who he was, I'd say that Gates was probably restrained in his response to Crowley's bullshit. That you can't empathize with Gates strikes me as somewhat peculiar. That you take Crowley's side when even his own superiors won't strikes me as telling.
July 23, 2009 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure about the last part of this comment, but the rest is spot on.
July 23, 2009 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
.............When Branch Rickey chose Jackie Robinson, he chose someone with a thick skin who could take verbal and physical abuse.
Gates and most other African-Americans suffer from a gene deletion on the Jackie Robinson chromosome.
You don't get it, once Gates had been ID'ed, the police should have just left. The point that is at issue is that Gates Jackie Robinson chromosome gene deletion syndrome did not warrant an arrest. Period. The cop overreacted. That is why Obama used the word "stupid".
I truly don't expect you to understand.
July 23, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama walks back "stupidly" comment. Try to keep up.
July 23, 2009 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep up, yourself, smartcat.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-i-am-surprise-by-the-controversy-over-my-comments-on-gates-arrest.php?ref=fpblg
July 23, 2009 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
...............So do you improve the situation of racial profiling by having educated professors rant on like crazy homeless street people
All I can say is wow. Sad commentary
July 23, 2009 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Point conceded, although when I think of ranting crazy homeless street people, I have a picture in my head of the crazy old white guy dressed all in black and with a long white beard who appeared speaking gibberish in the doorway of a Japanese hair salon while I was getting my hair cut. Since the Japanese are extremely polite, they stopped what they were doing and asked the man if they could help him by calling the police. "NO! NO! NO!" Father Time shrieked with a wild flourish of his arms before fleeing the premises.
Anyway, all Gates had to do was ask the cop to call his supervisor to the scene to mediate. That's it. If the sergeant refused to call his supervisor, he'd be in the wrong and have to suffer the consequences.
No need to ask for the badge. Just go over the sergeant's head.
One thing this story reveals is that Gates is none too familiar with his friendly neighborhood police force. This is a problem regardless of this particular incident, and I think both sides need to make an effort to get to know each other, since the cops are there to serve and protect Gates.
July 23, 2009 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed, Boston law enforcement has a reputation in the community. The force has to recognize that some African-Americans that they come into contact with may be wary because of the reputation that law enforcement has.
Harvard and the other local universities should work harder on police community relations.
July 23, 2009 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you keep putting the onus on Gates? It's the cop's job to keep the peace and deescalate tense situations. The cop failed -- in fact, he escalated the tension.
Please finish this sentence: Once Gates had produced valid ID and that was confirmed by the cop, all Sgt Crowley had to do was....
July 23, 2009 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Calling police headquarters and demanding to talk with the chief may be a bit of arrogant pulling of rank, but I would not classify it as a typical behavior of "crazy homeless street people".
Now, it is 100% believable that Gates did ask the cop for badge number. The weird thing is that by all accounts (a) it is a very reliable way of profoundly annoying a cop, and (b) actually, upon request, the policeman is supposed to comply. Which he did not, advantage: Gates.
And the balance of accounts strongly suggests that the charge of disorderly conduct was trumped up and the arrest was purely to satisfy ego needs of the arresting officer. Basically, they cops avoided driving away with Gates "having the last word". But it is not the job description of the police to "have the last word".
I would really appreciate if the national media would pay more attention to more outrageous behavior, like this raid on a gay bar in Forth Worth where cops where checking if patrons are not "drunk in public", with one person being sent to a coma by having his head slammed on the pavement. Public drunkness is a misdemeanor in Texas, but it should be a state when a person is "in danger to public or himself", rather than an open season to arrest anyone who sits in a bar, which seems to be the interpretation of police. I guess it is similar with "disorderly conduct".
July 23, 2009 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, by the way, it seems that the charge of disorderly conduct against Sen. Craig was similarly trumped up. Something about sitting in his toilet stall and tapping your feet in a manner that could be interpreted as a signal with some prior knowledge. If I recall, Senator tried to pull his rank when they arrested him, which should be legal, but it is ill advised even if you are a white male member of the elite.
Then again, perhaps airports cop just enthusiastic about harassing gays,
July 23, 2009 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for posting the link to the officer's report.
While the incident is unfortunate, it seems that the professor had an immediate agenda -- from before he even opened the door -- of making this a race issue. The degree to which he relies on the words "black" and "white" ad nauseum in his posts suggests that he is a man who is angry at the world and its social ills. While this may be legitimate, it doesn't mean he can act like an ass and not get arrested. Before being a "black" man, Gates is a citizen of a country that has rules and procedures, and whether he likes it or not, police have a wide berth to prevail with an arrest of "disorderly conduct" if they have the numbers of witnesses that they had during this event. Let's see what these witnesses say about Gates' behavior.
July 23, 2009 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
That would be why the police dropped the charges.
July 23, 2009 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, police don't have that sort of latitude in Massachusetts when charging someone with disorderly conduct. Gates may have had an agenda or may have just been an asshole, but in neither case is such behavior illegal in America. At least not yet.
July 23, 2009 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am of two minds about this.
1. It's pretty clear that the Officer was just doing his job and Gates from the beginning was looking at this as racial profiling (rather than duh, someone saw him breaking into his house). Had Gates' house actually been broken into by strangers and no one called the police, the story would have been how no one cares that a black man's house got broken into.
I don't see even in Gates' statement any indication that the Officer was disrespectful (or acted in a racist manner) towards Gates or treated him differently than any other person in similar circumstances would have been treated.
The cop leaving the house was trying to deescalate the situation (it was pretty much over) and Professor Gates continued to call him racist and throw a hissy-fit. If you continue to go yelling your head off at the cops (white black yellow puerto rican or haitian), you'll get arrested. It's that simple. Gates was expecting SPECIAL treatment, not because of the color of his skin but because of who he was - an esteemed Professor from Harvard University. I still think the police office should have had the good sense to walk away from the situation and let Gates continue to be an ass in the privacy of his home. Usually cops are in a position of authority, but it is pretty clear that the person who really had the power, class and status was Gates. That cop and the Cambridge police just got scolded by Obama for doing their jobs because it impacted one of Obama's friends.
Maybe Professor Gates and Obama are in need of an introduction to real abuse of authority by police officers (and likely race was a factor).
2. I was stuck in traffic in the City yesterday and the cops were pulling over cars that were blocking the intersection. The pulled over 4 cars in front of me for tickets. 3 just pulled over, got their license and registration out, etc. One was a Bentley and this older white man opened the door got out and went storming over to the traffic cops. The cops politely told him to get back in the car and he did.
Regardless of status or power or how much money you have, a black person could not get away with that. In a best case scenario, would have been going home in handcuffs. Hey, I personally know folks who followed all the right rules in confrontations with police and still ended up shot for a basic Driving While Black traffic stop. So yes, race is a factor in the criminal justice system and there is certainly racial profiling that goes on. But Professor Gates is clueless if he thinks that he was a victim of racism or profiling in this instance.
July 23, 2009 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did: And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’
And this: It escalated as follows: I kept saying to him, ‘What is your name, and what is your badge number?’ and he refused to respond. I asked him three times, and he refused to respond. And then I said, ‘You’re not responding because I’m a black man, and you’re a white officer.’ That’s what I said. He didn’t say anything. He turned his back to me and turned back to the porch.
Does this sound like respect to you?
July 23, 2009 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not bowing down to a possible intruder/burglar is not a sign of disrespect. Did he say "hands in the air don't move!" or something else to indicate black man automatically equals criminal? Er, no. He acted with an abundance of caution and asked himto step outside and provide identification. That's only disrespectful if you expect people to constantly bow down to you. Don't you know who I am?
For failing to do that the cop is racist? Is it not possible that gates has his own racial profiling and assumes a white cop is interrogating him because he's racist, rather than because he got a call about attempted burglary? That would provide context and explanationfor gates' reaction without smearing a cop that was doing his job as a racist.
July 23, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're making my head spin, Deej. Cops are supposed to act like door mats. Who knew?
July 23, 2009 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Officers of the law are not supposed to make false arrests.
July 23, 2009 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Public servants aren't allowed to abuse the citizenry with bogus charges and illegally withholding identification.
July 23, 2009 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who said anything about bowing down? A simple, polite explanation of his visit would be respectful. Crowley didn't do that; he disrespected Gates in his own house. His turning his back on the resident when the resident was requesting legally required information was also disrespectful. Your initial premise of "I don't see even in Gates' statement any indication that the Officer was disrespectful" has been disproved by two areas of Gates' statement.
As for the cop being a racist: you can spin that any way you want. I'm fairly certain that Gates' definition may be vastly different from either yours or mine (although I would give Gates the benefit of the doubt given his life experience and education). That's actually irrelevant to me. The fact that Gates was illegally arrested on no pretext whatsoever (yelling at the cop's back from his porch?!?) is far more serious than any taint or smear.
July 23, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going by his own statements. Initially the officer approached him and asked him for identification and to step outside. SOP. He did not initially treat him like a criminal . Gates is the one who got confrontational. I still haven't seen any evidence that the officer eben yelled back at him. White or black, I don't see the cop being initially diserespectful.
And there's no indication he arrested Gates because he was black. He did so because he was disorderly and disrespecftful even when the officer was leaving. Anyonein the same circumstances would be treated that way, and wouldn't have the charges dropped. I canunderstand challenging an officer from the beginning who was ride and confrontational and abusive (see oklahoma trooper link). I have not seen anything to say the officer was out of line initially except apparently he failed to say excuse me sir to a possible burglar.
July 23, 2009 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
He did not initially treat him like a criminal . Gates is the one who got confrontational.
--------------------------------------------------
I don't see how that matters. Its not a legal requirement to be respectful. Its not illegal to get angry, even if unprovoked. Its not illegal to raise one's voice or insult someone, even a cop. It is legal to ask for a cops badge number. We can blame the whole confrontation on Gates (which I don't) and still there was insufficient cause to arrest him.
Whether Crowley was racist or simply expected a submissiveness is unknown. But either are inappropriate reasons for a cop to arrest a man .
If this is the way Crowley treats an upper class educated man in one of the better neighborhoods of the city I wonder how he treats the poorer classes with much less power and resources.
July 23, 2009 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was never Gates' fault from a legal standpoint. The cop should have been more respectful. Rather than concentrating on Gates' alleged racial agenda, maybe we can use this as yet another an example of what is wide-spread police arrogance and sometimes out-right criminal behavior in this country.
July 23, 2009 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've seen disrespectful cops and this guy ain't it. He was professional and apparently kept his cool even after being cursed and called racist. I am stunned that the guy kept his composure. Gates was given a chance to calm down and didn't. I disagree with the arrest but the officer was well within the law to do so. It's called discretion. Gates was the abusive one from the beginning and continued to escalate the situation.
Cops shouldn't be abusive towards citizens and neither should civilians be abusive towards cops. Bottom line: If a cop shows up on my doorstep because of a possible attempted burglary, and I have a broken door and am standing inside, I would say there's been a mistake, explain the situation and follow standard procedures. (Step outside and show ID). I would not go off on the cop calling him racist and cursing at him. If I did, black or white, my ass would be headed to jail. Gates demanded to be treated differently because of who he is. Don't be fooled. This is about power and status, not race.
July 23, 2009 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I am not arguing that Gates wasn't being a dick, but that is still not illegal as far as I know and certainly shouldn't be in a free country.
The cop did zero to deescalate the situation by refusing to give up his name and badge. He could have simply thanked Gates and walked away at any time, no matter what the man was saying. He could have done any number of things, most of which he probably learned at the academy, and decided not to. Cops have much responsibility than their boss (the average citizen) to keep their cool.
At least one case was cited on this thread that seems to disagree with your assessment that Gates' behavior constituted disorderly conduct, though the fact that the charges were dropped indicates at least one person believes there were no laws broken.
July 24, 2009 8:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
The bottom line is did the arrest make sense? If Gates is such an a-hole against authority, do we have a string of arrests to support that?
Would you expect that Gates has encountered other police officials, or even been stopped for driving while Black. Why is he so outraged by this officer at age 58? Was it a reaction to a "Southie" accent (Southern Boston-think busing protests)
July 23, 2009 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since when is false arrest part of the cops' job description?
July 23, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a chance a white might not get away with it either, but better chance that a black won't get away with it.
July 23, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now if you live with that knowledge, could it make an initial wary or negative response to a law enforcement official rational? If Harvard had to form a board to deal with racial profiling on campus, is it possible that Gates' reaction would be a normal response. One that you would not have, but one that could be understood in another individual?
Getting pulled over by a cop while driving at night might create a little more anxiety in a Black male driver than in a White male driver.
July 23, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why in the hell would I have to "comply" with a police officer in my own goddamn home?
I think once the cops discovered they were mistaken, the only thing they needed to do was leave.
I hate this attitude from the cops that demands all sorts of submissive behavior with veiled threats that they will get rough if you don't.
THEY SERVE US. WE DONT SERVE THEM.
Racist or not, I've seen this kind of power trip bs again and again from the police.
July 23, 2009 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Must we be deferential to police no matter what, even if we have done nothing wrong? If we fail to properly heel-to, even in our own home, can we justifiably be arrested?
I really just don't get why this thread is pushing 150 comments....
July 23, 2009 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those that think this story is not about race are fooling themselves. This is America and you are talkiing about a man who lived through Jim Crow. It is always about race, whether overtly, or covertly on the part of almost everyone in this country! Whether you are willing to admit it or not, is another issue.
July 23, 2009 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The man was in HIS OWN HOME and the officer knew it!
But instead of apologizing for incoveniencing the home owner, this dumbass cop kept it up and arrested Prof. Gates. Had it been anyone else black but this Harvard Professor the cop would get away with it. But that isn't going to happen in this case thank God.
The level of arrogance and callous disregard Posing as wanting to evauluate the facts regarding this situaion which is on display by whites in the media and even on this site serves as an education about the depth and pervasiveness of racism in the United States. It is genuinely outrageous and very sad that so many white people are so unable to recognize blatant racism in such an instance.
America, we have a lot of work to do.
July 23, 2009 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given the makeup of the MSM, the viewpoints of Desidero, RTB, etc. will carry the day in the media. The "norm" will be that Gates should not have been upset and the President is not supposed to remind us that he has Black skin.
The racial divide will be seen in this issue. Blacks will once again lament that Whites just don't get it. For many Whites, unless Gates got an old style beat down, nothing happened here. I the African-American home owning community the message will be received that you can't get upset on your own property, even if you represent no physical threat. If questioned by the police just say "Yes sir" or "No sir" and move on. Those are the only rights that you have. Any other response and you are a ranting homeless person.
July 23, 2009 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone who doesn't snap-to when a cop says jump gets treated like this. Usually a person - of any race - in this situation would get a beat-down, be tazed or both. It is Gates' high social status that saved him from what most other American citizens would have experienced when talking back to an officer - or daring to demand their badge number.
Sure, there is both racism and racial profiling in America. But sometimes the cigar of police abusing authority is just a cigar. I'm sorry to say, the inability for Gates to understand this speaks more to his own racism than that of America. I will defend his right to speak and be safe from arrest in his own home (or anywhere else) to the grave, but personally I suspect Gates is every bit as racist as those he criticizes.
The police-state apologists on this thread ARE somewhat puzzling. That's a bit harder for me to categorize in my mind than Crowley's actions which were, IMO, based on simple anger that ANYONE would dare question his author-a-tay. I am just a strong believer that EVERY arrest under such circumstances is a false arrest even when it happens to white dudes.
July 23, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
This sequence confuses me:
1) Officer asks Gates to show ID to prove he lives in the house.
2) Gates shows his Harvard ID, presumably fulfilling the officer's request.
3) Officer then calls for more police.
What, the cop needed backup to handle the irate, intellectual, disabled and elderly black man in the kitchen?
Yeah, I'd want to speak with his mama outside, too.
July 23, 2009 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
...in a nutshell!
July 23, 2009 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gates, by his own account, was not arrested until after he had implied racism on Crowley's part and followed him onto the front porch to ask a FOURTH time for his name and badge. I don't believe race was the problem, just bad attitudes on both sides.
In January, I was maced and arrested in my own home and spent a night in jail. I had called the police to my apartment to take a missing person's report on my ex-wife, who was schizophrenic, pregnant and, I had learned from the homeless shelter where she was staying, had been locked out on a 15-degree bitter-cold night for missing curfew. The officer refused to take a report and in addition to directing me to the morgue to look for her, asked if my ex-wife was a whore. She is not and never has been. I told him to leave my own and as he did so, shouted over his shoulder "Don't ever call us again!" I muttered "I won't, you fucking asshole" and he re-entered my home. He instructed me three times to turn around and I refused each time, telling him to just leave. That's when I was maced. When I was released the next day, I learned my ex had spent the night in a storage unit. The city prosecutor later dropped trumped up charges of disturbing the peace and resisting arrest when I signed an agreement to not sue the city or department, which I could not afford anyway. (ACLU wouldn't even answer the phone).
So it seems to me that some cops are just assholes. Whether you're black or white, you aren't blue enough to treat with respect.
July 23, 2009 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ripper, that's a disgrace, and the ACLU should be ashamed for not being interested in your case. I suppose they were too busy fighting Facebook Gag Orders...
July 23, 2009 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to hear about this. Is your ex-wife OK?
July 23, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, thank God.
July 23, 2009 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. The officer later falsified his report, indicating he had spoken with a neighbor as the basis for the peace disturbance charge. Funny thing is, the neighbor was at work all day and not even home at the time.
July 23, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
City of St. Louis or was it in the county?
You ought to get a copy of that agreement and go to a private lawyer and sue the shit out of them.
July 23, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
You familiar with St. Louis? I think St. Louis is an honorary southern city, not that I like to use that adjective as a pejorative. But I think they know how to keep the perverse wheels of non-justice greased.
July 23, 2009 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Dorn said. Too bad you aren't a Harvard professor. That seems to be the moral of this story.
July 23, 2009 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is what will happen in cable MSM. Pat Buchanan, Lou Dobbs, and Fox will provide viewpoints that agree with RTB, Desidero, etc. There will be some African-Americans to provide a different viewpoint. There will be a Conservative African-American to cosign the Buchanan and Dobbs viewpoint.
The majority of views that will be repeated will be Gates over-reacted and Obama should shut up about race. Some network may even track down Reverend Jeremiah wright to make sure that Gates gets considered ore like a homeless person than a Harvard professor.
I do have to state that having someone call Gates an idiot and a homeless person, tell us how mannerly Martin Luther King Jr. and Rosa Parks were in being carted off to jail, followed by a reminiscence of the thick skin of Jackie Robinson was during verbal and physical threats is offensive. It's 2009. Blacks are allowed to be upset about perceived slights, even if you do not agree!
July 23, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! I'm positive that won't happen!
You meant someone other than Obama, right? Because Obama walks back "stupidly" comment.
July 23, 2009 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You meant Gibbs
----------------
Obama doesn't regret his comments about the botched arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr., Gibbs said. But the press secretary parsed/spun Obama's words carefully, insisting the president did not call the police stupid and saying the situation in Cambridge got "out of hand" due to bad behavior on "both sides" of the incident.
Here's the full quote: "Let me be clear. He was not calling the officer stupid, okay? He was denoting that . . . at a certain point the situation got far out of hand, and I think all sides understand that."
----------------------
I'll accept the walk back on that word. But Obama believes that the arrest should not have happened.
I think I note that Gates was angry.
Regarding Black conservatives I had someone like Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson in mind. Peterson is a frequent guest on Sean Hannity's show:
Sharpton, Harvard Prof 'Abusing Police While Black,' Says Rev. Peterson
LOS ANGELES, July 23 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Founder and President of BOND, the Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny, today repudiated Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. and Al Sharpton for their "unfounded and reckless" allegations of racism against Cambridge, Massachusetts police. Cambridge police dropped a disorderly conduct charge against Gates yesterday; he had been arrested at his home on July 16 after police responded to a break in. Gates had locked himself out and reportedly forced his way inside.
When officers asked him to show identification Gates reportedly snapped, "No, I will not!" When an officer asked to speak to him outside, Gates was heard shouting, "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside" and "This is what happens to black men in America." Al Sharpton and Gates falsely accused the police of racially profiling him. Sharpton proclaimed, "I've heard of driving while black, but I've never heard of living in a home while black." He added, "If they can do this to him [Gates], imagine what they can do to a kid in Roxbury."
"Henry Gates and Al Sharpton are abusing police while black," said Rev. Peterson. "Their false allegations say to young blacks that they too can abuse police and cry racism. Gates was abusive and disorderly and the police dealt with him accordingly--where's the racism? This is a case of black males gone wild."
Police in Cambridge bowed to pressure from liberal black leaders and issued a statement yesterday calling Gates' arrest "regrettable and unfortunate."
Rev. Peterson said, "What's regrettable is that the city of Cambridge and the police have allowed themselves to be intimidated by a race hustler like Al 'The Riot King' Sharpton. The race card has once again been used to unjustly smear law enforcement and thwart justice. This is Tawana Brawley all over again!"
Sharpton gained national notoriety after his involvement in the Tawana Brawley rape hoax -- where he took up the cause of a 15 year-old black girl from New York who falsely accused six white men (some were police officers). The allegations were tossed out, but Sharpton never admitted wrongdoing, nor has he apologized to the men in that case.
BOND, the Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny, is a 501 (c) nonprofit organization dedicated to "Rebuilding the Family By Rebuilding the Man." www.Bondinfo.org
http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/07-23-2009/0005065146&EDATE=
July 23, 2009 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I mean that Politico has a better bead on what's going on than TPM.
I like how after I conceded a point of yours, rmrd0000, you decide it's okay to link me with Buchanan, Dobbs, et al. You are a schmuck. I'm done talking to you.
July 23, 2009 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Birds of a feather flock together, you and your friend Rushabaga Limpole fit right in with the likes of Beck, Hannity, Coulter et al. You may feel you are on the opposite side but your methods are just as mendacious.
July 23, 2009 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are correct I put RTB and Rutabaga in the Conservative camp. I really did not see a major difference in words or tone.
July 23, 2009 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was once said to be channeling Cheney when I said that the constitution was a set of suggestions> My point was that the Taney court's rulings ushered in Jim crow because discrimination was illegal only if practiced by the government. The Japanese prison camps were upheld by the Supreme Curt in 1944, thus made Constitutional. The halting of the Florida recount, ushering in the election of GW Bush, was Constitutional, certified 5-4 by the Supreme Court.
But my wording was attacked as supporting GW Bush.
Of course, I a not channeling Cheney. But that was the accusation.
Your stance on the Gates issue does ring of positions that would be taken by Dobbs or Buchanan. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
July 23, 2009 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Facts not in evidence.
July 23, 2009 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Don76 notes in a post above here is President Obama:
"I have to say I am surprised by the controversy surrounding my statement because I think it was a pretty straight forward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama said.
...
"I think that I have extraordinary respect for the difficulties of the job that police officers do," the president told Moran. "And my suspicion is that words were exchanged between the police officer and Mr. Gates and that everybody should have just settled down and cooler heads should have prevailed. That's my suspicion."
The president said he understands the sergeant who arrested Gates is an "outstanding police officer." But he added that with all that's going on in the country with health care and the economy and the wars abroad, "it doesn't make sense to arrest a guy in his own home if he's not causing a serious disturbance."
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-i-am-surprise-by-the-controversy-over-my-comments-on-gates-arrest.php?ref=fpblg
July 23, 2009 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol this is so funny.
police cant be racists! the report shows it!.
if police were racists how did they get hired??
you dont have a clue about what you are talking about.
you dont know police.
their attitudes .
their beliefs or their motivations.
I do.
I was a police officer for years till i quit.
This is no question in my mind the police arrested this man because he stood up to them.
they are used to pushing people around.
pushing black men around.
they couldnt do it this time and were caught.
you think this is the first time they have arrested a black man for no cause??
you are a funny guy.
July 23, 2009 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that "oaf" isn't exactly the right epithet for jonnienohands. In my bar-crawling post-adoloescence, I drank beer and shot pool with all sorts of relatively oafish individuals, and a good time was had by all.
But when jonnienohands accuses a commenter like Don Key of racism, on the basis of nothing, "oaf" is too good a word, which gasket substituted for something more accurate, with her usual délicatesse.
jonnienohands is just a nasty little jerk.
July 23, 2009 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did not accuse anyone of being a racist. Nor have I made personal attacks of any nature in this thread other than to say your style is reminiscent of Rush Limbaugh.
July 23, 2009 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
jonnienohands' reply to Don Key...
And now...
How many nasty innuendos can you sneak into one comment, you nasty little jerk?
But your "subtle" character assassination loses even its imbecile version of "subtlety" when you say...
"Bias against black people" is the meaning of racism, moron!
Wouldn't you really be happier on DailyKos, where your brand of character assassination is welcome?
July 23, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
your usual cherry picking, eh Rushabaga;
"You are definitely showing a bias against the blacks you mention."
This comment is about the blacks mentioned in his reply, not all black people.
My next comment in the thread contained this tid-bit.
"This is inflammatory rhetoric. Is it race based or politically based? You tell me."
You either cherry picked my comments or didn't do your homework. Which is it. Did you accuse me falsely, by accident or was it an intentional act of deceit?
July 23, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're a liar and a jerk, jonnie.
You think your defamatory innuendos are so "subtle" that nobody will understand their obvious intention, but when you acccused Don Key of "bias," it was exactly equivalent to an accusation of racism, as in the Times headline about this incident...
The Times doesn't have to specify that the "bias" isn't bias against three individuals, because the word is never used that way.
So you're a poisonous little jerk for making defamatory comments about Don Key, and you're a liar for trying to hide it under a pile of bullshit.
July 23, 2009 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me too and thanks. I was clumsy in trying to say the same thing (that your questions could be read with different intents). Political correctness sometimes ends up causing more miscommunication and division than resolving it. I was questioning the political results more than the motivations of those three. Anyway, peace. We're probably closer in our thinking than it comes out.
Posted by Don Key in reply to a comment from jonnienohands
July 23, 2009 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
July 23, 2009 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jonnienohands,
Please don't use my words to misinterpret my intent. I was trying very hard to be conciliatory and reach a middle ground where people aren't accusing each other of biases or twisted standards.
I was trying to elicit conversation and debate not potshots. I admit it's easy trap me with my own verbiage; I can't beat a 5th grader most of the time. But what are we talking about here? Some see one side and ignore evidence of the other and vice versa. But does that make either side morally or intellectually inferior? Only dishonesty, that is, deafness and closed-mindedness, does that I believe.
I didn't want to weigh into this because I've gone through this here before during the campaign (anti-Obama as in the Wright affair or Clinton "race-baiting" = racist). I wouldn't have jumped in if Obama had not raised this case to a national (or world) issue. All this is about is ferreting out the truth of what occurred. The only reason it's important is because Prof Gates and then the POTUS made it so. If racism is not involved then it has been set back by another "false alarm" about race relations (mark the times Obama has spoken about it).
Best to give it some time and hear all sides, then do your best objective analysis (simple human bias is always a demon to overcome for everyone).
July 24, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your words were graciously accepted. There were misperceptions of my words. My attempts at showing a proper characterizations were met with hostility, lies and insults. These attacks were morally inferior.
jonnienohands' reply to Don Key...
"Your commentary could be considered racist. You are definitely showing a bias against the blacks you mention. Are you a racist? I don't know."
And now...
"I did not accuse anyone of being a racist."
How many nasty innuendos can you sneak into one comment, you nasty little jerk?
But your "subtle" character assassination loses even its imbecile version of "subtlety" when you say...
You are definitely showing a bias against the blacks you mention.
"Bias against black people" is the meaning of racism, moron!
Wouldn't you really be happier on DailyKos, where your brand of character assassination is welcome?
Posted by Rutabaga Ridgepole in reply to a comment from jonnienohands
July 23, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're a liar and a jerk, jonnie.
You think your defamatory innuendos are so "subtle" that nobody will understand their obvious intention, but when you acccused Don Key of "bias," it was exactly equivalent to an accusation of racism, as in the Times headline about this incident...
"Harvard Professor Jailed; Officer Is Accused of Bias"
The Times doesn't have to specify that the "bias" isn't bias against three individuals, because the word is never used that way.
So you're a poisonous little jerk for making defamatory comments about Don Key, and you're a liar for trying to hide it under a pile of bullshit.
Posted by Rutabaga Ridgepole in reply to a comment from jonnienohands
July 23, 2009 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some TPM bloggers are playing games; twisting statements and facts to suit their "sick desires". My comments were truthful and heartfelt as were yours. My use of your words was necessary to neutralize the poisonous atmosphere created by others.
July 24, 2009 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're simply full of shit, jonnienohands. Your initial contributions were designed to provoke as many commenters (me, Des, Don, etc.) until you got reactions. Rootie stepped in to kick your pathetic ass, which you deserved at the time. If you can't debate like a grownup, then you just can't. Oh well. But don't expect anyone to buy your "He's picking on me" sob story. If you act like a troll you should be treated like a troll. Baiting people is troll behavior. Stop the disingenuous whining already!
July 24, 2009 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
If lies and insults are debating as an adult, I'm quite happy to remain a child in your eyes. If my words have so little meaning to you, why do you continue in such a hostile manner?
July 24, 2009 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Because of anyone on these boards, Don Key is the last person who deserves your petty games and harassment.
July 24, 2009 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
You need to speak with your self-proclaimed attack dogs (rutabaga/blowngasket/middleclassbill) they are harassing and slurring me to this day. You and I have reached an amicable end to a misunderstanding. They need to understand this and stop the senseless attacks. You ask me to not use your words for this purpose, I have honored your request. Please honor mine. Thank you
July 26, 2009 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I’ll repeat that I accept that we had a misunderstanding and everything’s cool. But I don’t have any “self-proclaimed attack dogs.” I try not to exchange insults with people (I’m sure I often fail) but even calling people "attack dogs" just inflames the situation. I’m sure I’ve responded pro and con to RTBG’s comments at some time or another and have had a few exchanges with Rutabaga, again disagreeing some, agreeing some (I don’t think I’ve even talked to MCB tho my senior memory often fails me). I can’t tell anyone, including you, what to say and wouldn’t want to. I think if you’re having an argument with anyone and my name is coming up in connection with this thread and your initial contention about my comment, it’s about what you said, not me, and all you can do is explain they’re misinterpreting you. I know I say stuff all the time without thinking that I have to walk back (yesterday I said something about the democratically elected “government” of Honduras being overthrown, which is a distortion). When I’ve gotten into shouting matches with anyone, I usually state my position and then quit responding unless some kind of agree to disagree thing happens and we can continue discussion without the insults. Just don’t hit that “Reply To so-and-so” button. As far as the Gates thing, I put in my last two cents yesterday, and won’t get back into it because each side just ignores the other’s points and there’s nothing new to say. I’ll bet they release the tapes down the road a bit and many will still hear what they want to. I’ve got no beef with you, but, for example, if you had one with me and were flaming me, I’d just ignore it and not respond anymore.
July 26, 2009 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, JNH. I just noticed Ruta's blog and looked at your comments. Really, why are you commenting there?Why go out of your way to argue with Ready? Look back at your first couple of comments there and try to see who's baiting who.
July 26, 2009 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Bob Dylan once sang, "You're right from your side; I'm right from mine." I can see how both sides in this incident could be positive that they acted entirely within their rights.
Here's what bugs me: After everyone knew Professor Gates had been arrested at his own home during the investigation of a crime that never occurred, why did I see his unflattering Cambridge Police Dept. mugshot on CNN?
Is it the department's standard protocol to release mugshots of every person they take into custody, regardless of the facts of the case?
It isn't necessarily racist, but it sure is a way to show Gates whom he's messing with, isn't it?
July 23, 2009 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the cop's problem arose from cognitie dissonance: race and class.
Fifty-eight year old Professor Gates had just returned home from a long trip from China with the remnents of a brochial infection. At the moment he thought he was finally "home"and could relax, he could not get into his front door. When he finally got in to his house, his finds a policeman on his doorstep.
The policeman, having been alerted to a "black man breaking into a house" in a no doubt upperclass neighborhood, is surprized to find an elderly black man in the house claiming it is his. The older man proffers a Harvard faculty picture ID. Unconsciously, the white policeman thinks only white men are Harvard professors. He treats Professor Gates with arrogance, arising from envy. Black men don't deserve to be Harvard professors (nor U.S. Presidents).
Professor Gates, who is admittedly tired and probably, unadmittedly cranky, reacts to the rude behavior, calling the police chief and demanding the cop's badge number. The Policeman reacts, refusing to give his badge number, feeling "I'll show you, you uppity black university professor"... and so it goes, with both the professor and the policeman hot and angry.
Policeman shows uppity professor who has the power and arrests him. Was it racial profiling? Yes, but it was also a question of class. Was it stupid? Yes, cops should be trained to respond politely to everyone they deal with, including cranky professors who don't fit their "appropriate" class profile.
July 23, 2009 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the most informative piece I've seen on this and answers many of my questions about what so far has been a framed as a single simplistic narrative of police racism. It will be interesting to hear what the 7 citizens say about what they saw on that front porch. Were any of them worried that someone could get hurt? If I were one of them, I would be anxious to see something like that get under control--either the shouting to stop or the person doing the shouting to be subdued. I am commenting on the scene itself and what appeared to be happening or about to happen, not on the motivations or competence of the people involved.
July 23, 2009 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I certainly don't think shouting of any sort should lead to being subdued by the police on my front lawn.
I am a pretty loud guys sometimes, even while in hearing distance of the guys and gals in blue. This is still America. We are allowed to be assholes on our own property without being arrested or even so much as harassed by the police. There is even appears to be case law on it in Massachusetts.
We all need to be a little less alarmed by emotionally-charged scenes that are totally non-violent. Offering up more power to law enforcement is the opposite direction I would see this country take.
July 23, 2009 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Co-signed!
July 23, 2009 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Co-signed!!
July 23, 2009 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's pretty much that. I think we can safely call the myth of Gate's arrest being legal: busted.
Been a blast.
July 23, 2009 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holy crap! Another case solved by the crackerjack legal team of KGB, Nohands, Miller & Steve!
July 23, 2009 11:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously any actual legal battle would be more complex, but it certainly appears there is case law indicating the cop wasn't just a thin-skinned wuss, but he was wrong too.
Regardless of your inability to actually read the citations or do a half an ounce of research on your own before belittling other. I supposed you would simply cite wikipedia instead and make some sort of pithy remark.
That's so much easier than having a position that is actually defensible on this particular subject.
July 24, 2009 6:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh please. I thought all the Co-signs! were funny, so I made a joke. So sue me! (That's another joke, fyi.) You have no idea what I've read or researched to make that accusation, jason.
Citing one case does not prove anything about the legal issues in this case. NCSteve doesn't practice law in MA, and neither do you, so citing his comment to wrap up the discussion is premature, to say the least.
There's a lot of information that's still missing; that's one of my points somewhere upthread. But regardless, we do know at least two things:
1) If Crowley had broken any laws or acted improperly, he would already be in trouble. Instead, he is getting robust support from all possible fronts (except in the liberal blogosphere and from the President of the United States).
2) For Gates to bring charges of any kind (and there are several possible angles), the burden of proof will be on him. I'm sure Gates's lawyer is diligently looking through case law as I write, but reading between the lines of the lawyer's statements so far, we can guess with a fair amount of certainty that Gates won't bring any charges. That's because he can't prove that Crowley did anything wrong other than perhaps acting like a bonehead. Well, like it or not, it's not illegal to be a bonehead.
July 24, 2009 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ironically, apparently Crowley did not think that "it's not illegal to be a bonehead."
July 24, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm pretty sure cops define "legal" and "illegal" differently than we do.
July 24, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Quite obviously.
July 24, 2009 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just as it isn't illegal to be an asshole, I assume it isn't illegal for police to improperly apply statutes and then release people. Complex legal issues often boil down to a single case as establishing the precedent. This seems to be one of those cases, but would happy to examine citations from different cases.
That is all kind of tangential to the point I think most people are making which is police being overly aggressive in applying the law and being overly sensitive to the point that police overstep their authority on flimsy footing in every jurisdiction in the country. That is not an isolated event and we should be happy that two well-intentioned fools got into a scrap that was public enough to bring this crucially important societal defect into the public eye.
I suspect we are all here to bring about many types of progressive changes through various means, but many of our most precious crusades are tactical in nature. There are strategic problems that remain absent from the discussion and abuse of authority is certainly a big one. If we hope to achieve success on health care or energy or education or the environment or any number of pressing issues, ignoring key foundational weaknesses seems an odd way to go about it.
PS: Apologies if I missed the joke, though I am still not sure what it was supposed to be. I will mention that most people offer "just joking" as an excuse for being unnecessarily sarcastic.
July 24, 2009 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've had recent experience myself with overly aggressive cops and with an even more aggressively flawed legal system. I was lucky, if by lucky you consider not being arrested and fingerprinted but having to hire a lawyer to defend my basic right to exist on the planet as "lucky."
Yes, part of the problem with cops is personality type as well as lack of adequate training and experience, learned biases and prejudices, insensitivity, ego, etc.
Another serious problem, however, is with some of the laws on the books. Some laws go overboard to the extent that innocent people cannot actually defend themselves. Once our laws start taking away rights, then something is terribly wrong for all of us.
From what I've observed, researched, and experienced firsthand, I think the overcorrection for certain crimes in this country is apparent throughout the entire system, top to bottom. But working that system starts with cops on the ground, and if you're going to write extreme laws, you're going to get extreme cops to enforce the laws, as well as extreme lawyers and judges to interpret those laws.
What I don't like about the Gates situation is that it is yet another opportunity to overcorrect rather than to right any real wrongs in the system or in the culture. If what comes out of this is a nationwide correction for racial profiling, then great. But I seriously doubt that's going to happen. In fact, I won't be surprised if it causes real race-based backlash instead.
July 24, 2009 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps, though I can see the racial aspects fading should critics concentrate on the civil rights aspects.
That is of much more concern to me than if Crowley was suspicious by very virtue of Gates' skin color, which I doubt was the case. In fact, I think Gates probably took a minor incident and blew it out of proportion to shine a little light into that dirty little secret that everyone seems to have a story about.
Whatever the truth actually is becomes secondary if one uses this unfortunate incident to fix some fairly serious structural problems with American culture as it has come to be defined for at least the last forty years.
None of this is new, only the mechanisms to discuss it.
July 24, 2009 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
P.S. I was joking earlier, but you're right that I was also being sarcastic. You guys had lined up so perfectly I couldn't resist commenting. I suppose I used sarcastic joking to reopen the discussion. Sometimes sarcasm works well as a prod; sometimes it doesn't.
July 24, 2009 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Strangely enough, it appears the police officer's record has already been released to Gates' attorney to comb through for any foundation for his accusations of racist behavior and Ogletree has no comment on what he found and says rather than a law suit they may settle for a new national dialogue on race and law enforcement. Interesting. Sounds like a guy with no case to me.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/us/24gates.html?pagewanted=2&hp
For Gates to try to claim that his arrest was due to racial profiling or racism by law enforcement is an insult to the very real racism that minorities face within the criminal justice system. People look at this case and reject his stupid claims and will be more likely to question real police abuse of authority and profiling. This case is a setback for the fight against real racial profiling anywhere outside of the most liberal, progressive the police are all evil and racist mentality.
July 24, 2009 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link, dija. I fear Gates will ultimately cause more people harm than good by his elitist, clueless, hissy-fit spectacle.
July 24, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
The police are public servants. They are supposed to protect and serve us. It is infuriating and disturbing that minorities in this country have to follow unwritten rules about how to behave around cops. We are being told to stay quiet, don't protest, don't even flinch because they might arrest, beat or even kill you.
Gates should have said this or done that. Bull Shit! The best thing Gates could have done was to have been born a White man.
July 23, 2009 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink