Lies and Damned Lies: Thinking (Our Way) Out of the Box
In the middle of a quagmire, it's easy to create whatever facts you want. For the last 8 years we've been in a panicked haze over 9/11. Even so-called liberals are dazed and confused, fed little bits of disinformation to toss morals overboard. False choices abound - "Indefinite Detention? Or health care?" It's like we're channeling Tom Tomorrow.
Fortunately we have a few bloggers and news organizations that are rising to the task of cutting through the muck and mire, but it's not easy - they're sidelined, they're not mainstream, they're "not serious ™". Dan Froomkin, fired from the Washington Post because he asks tough questions of both parties. Glenn Greenwald, keeping up on torture week after week. Marcie Wheeler (EmptyWheel), following court cases and legal briefs in detail to piece togehther the story behind the story. And oddly enough, there's still a news syndicate, McClatchy, that's maintaining some credibility on tough journalism.
How badly are we lied to? Well, here's Nancy Youssef at McClatchy pointing out that one of those horried Gitmo terrorists was actually trying to help us counteract the Taliban, and far from being picked up on a battlefield, he was picked up during questioning at the gate leaving a US military base after briefing commanders on positive actions they could take. Now, after 6 years of wrongful detainment and mistreatment, he's back in Afghanistan doing what he always does, advising the government. Armed and dangerous? The worst of the worst? Would you be afraid of this man moving in next door? We've been hustled. Tom Lasseter describes the hugely flawed process by which we frequently picked up the wrong guys.
But it gets worse - Wakil is now presented as having "returned to terrorism". After never having done anything wrong, trying to help us defuse tensions, 6 years of wrongful detention, returning to help the government (our ally) in Afghanistan, these motherfuckers have the gall to present him as a poster child of irredentist terrorist behavior, the supposed reason why we have to keep all those other innocent and unconvicted/untried inmates stuck in Guantanamo. And it works. The debate is not over "why don't we release harmless innocent people?" It's over, "oh my, wherever can we find in this vast world to safely place these Lex Luthors and Hannibal Lectors?". (Presumed answer: chained inside caves of ice at the North Pole) They have us pissing ourselves in fear, tromping on our own Constitution because they've found an effective boogieman. Liberals and Conservatives, we're all buying into this "they hate us for our freedom" nonsense after 8 years of media programming.
How ridiculous is this? As far as we know, aside from two World Trade Center + Pentagon attacks killing fewer than 3000 people, there has not been a single successful radical Islamist attack in the United States ever. In perspective, in 1993 we had 24 thousand murders and 1.9 million violent crimes; in 2007 we had 17 thousand murders and 1.4 million violent crimes. There are 43,000 auto deaths a year with 2 million permanent injuries. We've had a white supremacist bombing of the FBI, abortion center bombings by white radicals, crack gang epidemics, an unsolved anthrax terror campaign almost certainly not by Muslims... But one crime with airplanes by 20 people 8 years ago killing 3000 people has reshaped our psyches beyond recognition.
And for the 1993 WTC attack, we convicted most of the people involved, including the ringleader, in a court of law. And Greenwald notes, we just convicted someone of abetting terrorism in a US Court of Law. This is another pack of lies, that we need to create separate military tribunals to bypass protections for the accused, that our civilian courts aren't good enough. And Marcie tops it off by noting that our military tribunal convictions are likely illegal because the crime of "material support for terrorism" isn't a properly defined crime in the venue of the tribunals. So much for the lie that tribunals are the only way to handle our problems.
This follows the earlier myth pushed by the Conservatives to show Liberals were weak on terror - that the only proper response was military, invasion of independent countries to protect our rights, rather than the careful international police work that's cracked down on mob and terrorist activity for years, whether the Medellin cartel or the IRA or ETA or the PLO or Russian Mafia. Suddenly that wasn't good enough anymore, even though other countries have suffered horrendous terrorist attacks as great as 9/11, and didn't have to suspend the rights of man and invade their neighbors. But funny thing is, that notion is no longer even on the table - it became a joke about weak ol' Al Gore and then weak ol' John Kerry, thinking that mere laws and police enforcement could deter the Hannibal Lecters of the world - they hate us for our freedoms, nothing will stand in the way, not even good cops Bruce Willis/John McClane and Sgt. Al Powell, not even their SWAT teams.
It used to be that we considered our strong morals on the battlefield and off helped protect our troops, that when we came into town they would know we were the good guys, whether they were enemy combatants or innocent civilian bystanders. The assumption was that we don't commit atrocities, that we're known for acts of impromptu kindness. Admittedly, this is hugely questionable historically, and largely destroyed in Vietnam through horrific actions against civilians. But now it's even worse - we've turned our supposed reputation into a PR curse - we have to violate our own principles of transparency and access to information to keep our troops safe!!! If we do have any Hannibal Lecters, they must be protected and covered up, or else people will think we have Hannibal Lecters!!! My, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. As if we're fooling anyone but ourselves.
Oddly, the general we've all come to love to hate, Gen. Petraeus, noted we should release the suppressed pictures from Abu Ghraib to "lance this boil". But that message went nowhere - instead, the official word is out that releasing those pictures will endanger the troops, even though the rumors likely have the photos worse than they are, and even though Petraeus is one high profile figure who disagrees with this slam dunk assessment. The President himself is against releasing these photos, even though he's all for using pictures of the Iranian woman Neda, killed in protests, as a symbol to rile and rouse the citizen troops, potentially to harm that country's police. Premeditated abuse of prisoners on our watch? Cover up the photos. Random death in a melee somewhere "over there"? Let 'em fly, ain't democracy great?
Another successful lie is that our abuse debate is not over "How many detainees did we kill via torture and abuse and at a minimum willful negligence?" (Correct answer: well over 100). Instead it's over whether waterboarding is torture or not, and even that version is watered down (sorry) to infer a few seconds once or twice, rather than the repeated useless but sadistic administering over a period of months, trying to get intelligence blood out of people who more and more physically looked and acted like withered, extinguished turnips.
The Uyghurs held at Gitmo were not engaged in hostilities against us or anyone else. They were only training against the Chinese, who via Deng Xiao Peng had occupied Xinjiang/East Turkestan in 1949, about the time he mowed over Tibet as well, allowing China to expand their defensive/offensive position against Russia and India. So how's it going with that democracy in Xinjiang? Well, as Nick Bequelin explains, in 2002 as our post-9/11 freakout was picking up steam and our newfound friendship with China blossomed (after downing our spy plane and returning it dismantled in boxes just a year before), the Chinese decided to start burning Uyghur books, switch all teaching from Uyghur to Mandarin, banning of Uyghur burial rites, and push full steam ahead with importing more and more Han Chinese into Xinjiang, now giving them now 40% in the region. Latest word? The Chinese will now raze the center of ancient Kashgar, one of the great outposts on the Silk Road and part of the Great Game.
Remember when we complained about the Taliban blowing up ancient statues at Bamyan? Remember how we complained only a few weeks ago about repression of rights and democracy in Iran? Remember how we keep telling Israelis to stop the settlements in the West Bank? Apparently book burning and language suppression is no longer a big concern. Apparently the President has come down with a case of crickets. Chirp chirp, chirp chirp.
But it's not just the President's silence on critical moral issues - it's his active sustainment of long bandied lies while pretending to be different, to be planning a new way forward. His Justice Department is now defending not releasing Cheney's testimony even though Cheney's own lawyer already leaked it for political purposes. His CIA is stonewalling on coming forward with a less-redacted version of their IG report, now saying "Wait till Summer's Over". In the Al-Haramain case in Vaughan Walker's court, the defendent in requesting summary judgment can bandy about the contrast and hypocrisy between Obama & Holder's campaign/approval statements and the actions of the government now in defending illegal wiretapping outside of FISA approval. [Even more hypocritical because in Holder's private practice he was defending Chiquita's decade-long funding of both right- and left-wing terrorist squads in South America].
And for those who think the abuse has stopped, the wiretapping/warrentless surveillance continues. And the abuse at Guantanamo continues. Many people even think all the Uyghurs are sunning in Bermuda now. Problem solved. And for those on the left who have trouble accepting the full inference of these developments, any of these revelations are only temporary occurrences since Obama's in office such a short time, or just the work of a few bad eggs, not administration policy. Of course the original Abu Ghraib atrocities were blamed on a few bad eggs as well. And the Valerie Plame leaks were just from some disgruntled White House employee, until the time came to invoke executive privilege over VP/Presidential offices managing the whole affair.
Our media now takes the view that the words "torture" and "terrorism" only apply to acts that others do. When the US does it, it's some kind of misstep on the road to a greater cause. US bombs wipe out a village? Just a misstep - we're really winning hearts and minds. Enough so that we're upping our troop levels in Afghanistan to show our commitment and how well things are under control. A hundred or more detainees die in our custody, with everything from shackle marks to kicked in kidneys? "Boys (and girls) will be boys (and girls)". And don't even contemplate referring to orders from above - just a few renegades. "America does not torture", as declared meaninglessly by our last 2 Presidents, meaningless because you won't catch them within a mile of a concrete definition of torture.
One of the early Artifical Intelligence exercises involved a black box. If you submitted a question to the box and you couldn't distinguish the answer as coming from a human or a machine, then you have an effective expression of ïntelligence, whether "real" or "artificial". In fact the whole purpose of the exercise was to sidestep the prejudicial labeling of real vs. artificial, and look for objective measures.
In our case, we have a closed off system of government that we rarely get a glimpse into, but when we ask questions, and mistrust the responses and dig deeper, the behavior we observe seems consistent over the past years - it would be hard to conclude that there's been an administration change. Certainly from TV we all know the good cop/bad cop routine. "You see my partner, he has a bad attitude, but if you cooperate with me..." But Greenwald has already noted that Obama's willing to abide by the rules only when he gets the results he wants, and if not? Perhaps a signing statement of his own to refuse a Congressional directive, perhaps an Executive Order proclaiming Preventive Detention 4-evuh, perhaps vetoing the Intelligence Authorization if it doesn't rubberstamp the same flawed CIA-Congress briefing system, perhaps further claims of executive privilege over who visits the White House or health care discussions.
It's time for us to stop being hoodwinked and to accept we have a problem with our government, whoever we think is behind the wheel. It's careening down nervous breakdown lane, to quote the FarSide, and to date we as a people seem like complacent kids playing spot the license tag and auto bingo in the backseat, not noticing the guardrails on the cliffs we keep running into nor the pedestrians we've flattened on the way. We're stuck in a box, and it's time we start thinking our way out of it.
[Note: any references not explicity made most likely refer to blog postings by Marcie and Glenn - a perusal through their recent archives will most likely hit gold]
PS - some contend that we're holding on to Uyghurs "for their own good", rather than succumbing to Republican off-the-wall freaked-out-on-terror talking points at home (we *can't* let them on US territory, where they would defile our soil and threaten our children and the American Way by their very superhuman evil presence) and bowing to Chinese pressure abroad (oops, guess those US government bonds do have hefty strings attached). But there have been several US communities that have made strong pitches to bring the Uyghurs to their communities and protect them and integrate them. And as I've noted, these folks would easily blend in with large diverse university campuses. In short, the "concern" is nonsense. We run safe houses for battered women, witness protection programs, we reintegrate prisoners into society every day. We spend billions to fly detainees around the world to torture them through "extraordinary rendition", but we can't manage to settle a few innocent detainees on American soil without a hoopla? We are screwed up. And for those search engines out there, alt spelling, Uighur, Uighur, Uighur.
PPS - And how is it in 2009 we've come to somehow holding the word of the CIA sacrosanct? I mean, come on - their mission is lies and deception, spying and secrecy. I understand that - how come Congress doesn't?
















I am in near total agreement with everything yuo have posted for us today. To continue down the path of the Bush/Cheney administration is to acknowledge defeat and the terrorists will have us at their mercy.
July 10, 2009 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
What terrorists? They're mostly in our heads. We have more to worry about from Chinese hackers and espionage than we do from the Muslim world.
July 10, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
But the ones in our heads are scarier.
July 10, 2009 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
CIA director Panetta just admitted to Congress the the CIA had lied to Congressmen. That admission might be a change from the prior administration.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/08/panetta-acknowledged-cia_n_228321.html
The idea of bringing Gitmo prisoners who have been cleared to US soil met bipartisan opposition. That is one reason that some of the Uyghurs wound up in Bermuda and Palau was floated as a possible relocation site. Even Democratic Senator Jim Webb opposed bringing the Uyghurs to Northern Virginia where there is a Uyghur community.
At the same time that 4 Uyghurs were released to Bermuda, an Iraqi and Chadian were released from Gitmo and returned to their countries.
Deals are supposedly in the works to release some of the 100 Yemenis in Gitmo to Saudi Arabia. As of mid-June more than 50 other detainees had been cleared for release from Gitmo. Relocation sites were being sought for these men. I don't think the Obama administration wants to keep innocent people in Gitmo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/11/AR2009061101210.html?hpid=topnews
The biggest roadblocks in the Gitmo situation are the US Congress and the US public. With lies like "14% of released Gitmo prisoners return to terrorism" getting coverage in MSM, the public is concerned about both having cleared detainees on US soil and placing the remaining prisoners in maximum security jails in the US. Opposition from Democrats in Congress doesn't help. US release of Gitmo detainees will be a hard sell. It can be done, but the public and Congressional education process will take time.
July 10, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Even Democratic Senator Jim Webb opposed bringing the Uyghurs to Northern Virginia where there is a Uyghur community..."
This surprises me when: a) it is such a natural match as a release destination; and, b) Senator Webb could benefit politically by serving as an example of a politician unmoved by fear or hysteria. What reason did Senator Webb offer?
July 10, 2009 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is from the WaPo link above
But opposition on Capitol Hill to freeing detainees has dramatically intensified since January, when Obama announced plans to close the military prison within a year. Virginia lawmakers, including Sen. James Webb (D) and Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R), say they oppose Uighur resettlement as a matter of national security. Some of the Uighur detainees had received rudimentary military instruction at an Afghan camp, which some critics have described as a terrorist training camp but which the detainees' lawyers have said was a village of Uighur refugees.
Wolf, whose Northern Virginia district is home to many Uighurs, has been among the community's closest allies in Congress. But he has found himself at odds with it over this issue.
"There is a clear distinction between those individuals who have received training as terrorists and the Uighurs who are here, who yearn for democracy and fundamental freedom and rights," Wolf told about 100 advocates last month at the Capitol during a meeting of the World Uyghur Congress, an international coalition of expatriate groups.
......................
WaPo did not detail Webb further. Only the national security issue was mentioned.
July 10, 2009 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a chickenshit. Webb's the guy always blathering about the the virtues of the fighting Scots and Scotch-Irish, but he thinks every other repressed minority in the world should stick to "yearning"... and never pick up a gun?
Ok. Here's the deal Jimmy. When your country's taken over by China sometime next decade, we Canadians will accept any of you who're into "yearning" for freedom. But if you've ever picked up a gun or trained in how to use it... you get to stay in that cell and have the bejeebus beaten out of you.
Jimmy-lad. We're takin' back your tartan.
July 10, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you can get it off his ankles, it's yours.
July 10, 2009 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops. Let me clarify the line about Yemenis. The Yemenis would be relocated to Saudi Arabian prison, not freed.
There are something like 230 prisoners in Gitmo as of mid-June.
July 10, 2009 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
"But one crime with airplanes by 20 people 8 years ago killing 3000 people has reshaped our psyches beyond recognition."
Des, I think here you've hit on the key to American public acquiescence to the unprovoked invasion of Iraq, and to our relatively mute objection to Executive branch Constitution shredding, lies, and indefinite detainment and torture of prisoners. Among the primary reasons that our national psyche has been so warped, IMO, is because of the incessant video replay of the 9-11 attack by TV news channels back then. Video of two airliners flying into two skyscrapers replayed thousands of times, I feel, multiplied the traumatizing effect of the original event. Leaping out of windows located a thousand feet in the air. Fiery death. Add to all of that the concerted efforts of the Bush administration to manipulatively fan public fears with color coded terror alerts and public safety advice rising to buying duct tape and bottled water - a new millennia version of cold- war duck-and-cover advice.
I'm very concerned about the fascist intersection of corporate profit interests (in particular, by the news media) with federal government policy, something which became only too obvious under Bush and Cheney, threatens to completely subvert what remains of our democratic republic. Thank goodness (and DARPA) for the Internet. I don't know where we would be if we only had corporate media and the government to tell us what is real and true.
Rec'd.
July 10, 2009 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. Japanese Americans were interred. African-Americans faced Jim Crow. The Constitution has always been a set of suggestions. You try to stack SCOTUS with judges who agree with your political philosophy. A 5-4 vote defines the meaning of the document.
July 10, 2009 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
How far have we fallen as a nation? When what is proper becomes defined by the most abusive mistakes in our nation's past ... when the standard to which we hold ourselves is defined by the lowest standards that can be found in our history; it is a sad day in America.
I see no daylight between your view and the beliefs of the Bushies.
July 10, 2009 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Consider Bush v Gore. In my opinion SCOTUS made a political decision. Look at the vote breakdown GW became president because of the SCOTUS decision. Does that make me a Bushie?
In the Ricci case, Stotomayor followed the law set down in her circuit. At SCOTUS a 5-4 vote along political lines made the law. Am I a Bushie now?
Many SCOTUS appointments now are political appointments. Opposition to SCOTUS appointments is political opposition. Get the right judge, and the corporation wins over the rights of the individual. Am I still a Bushie?
July 10, 2009 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not necessarily. The number of Justices isn't fixed by the Constitution.
July 10, 2009 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. Japanese Americans were interred.
Care to quote the habeas corpus clause in the Constitution? What's that? You didn't know that the Constitution allows habeas to be suspended in times of insurrection? What? Oh, you didn't realize that the Civil War was an insurrection? Ah, that explains your silly comment then.
July 10, 2009 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
As the Civil War started, in the very beginning of Lincoln's presidential term, a group of "Peace Democrats" proposed a peaceful resolution to the developing Civil War by offering a truce with the South, and forming a constitutional convention to amend the U.S. Constitution to protect States' rights. The proposal was ignored by the Unionists of the North and not taken seriously by the South. However, the Peace Democrats, also called copperheads by their enemies, publicly criticized Lincoln's belief that violating the U.S. Constitution was required to save it as a whole. With Congress not in session until July, Lincoln assumed all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend habeas corpus. In 1861, Lincoln had already suspended civil law in territories where resistance to the North's military power would be dangerous. In 1862, when copperhead democrats began criticizing Lincoln's violation of the Constitution, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus throughout the nation and had many copperhead democrats arrested under military authority because he felt that the State Courts in the north west would not convict war protesters such as the copperheads. He proclaimed that all persons who discouraged enlistments or engaged in disloyal practices would come under Martial Law.
Among the 13,000 people arrested under martial law was a Maryland Secessionist, John Merryman. Immediately, Hon. Roger B. Taney, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States issued a writ of habeas corpus commanding the military to bring Merryman before him. The military refused to follow the writ. Justice Taney, in Ex parte MERRYMAN, then ruled the suspension of habeas corpus unconstitutional because the writ could not be suspended without an Act of Congress. President Lincoln and the military ignored Justice Taney's ruling.
Finally, in 1866, after the war, the Supreme Court officially restored habeas corpus in Ex-parte Milligan, ruling that military trials in areas where the civil courts were capable of functioning were illegal.
July 10, 2009 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should also note that the black codes and Jim Crow era was ushered in after the passage of the 14th amendment with the help of SCOTUS based on that court's interpretation of the Constitution.
From Wiki:
The Civil Rights Act of 1875 (18 Stat. 335) was a United States federal law proposed by Republican Senator Charles Sumner and Republican Congressman Benjamin F. Butler in 1870. The act was passed by Congress in February, 1875 and signed by President Grant on March 1, 1875. It was declared unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court in 1883.
The Act guaranteed that everyone, regardless of race, color, or previous condition of servitude, was entitled to the same treatment in "public accommodations" (i.e. inns, public conveyances on land or water, theaters, and other places of public amusement).
If found guilty, the lawbreaker could face a penalty anywhere from $500 to $1,000 and/or 30 days to 1 year in prison. However, the law was rarely enforced (especially after the withdrawal of federal troops from the South after the 1876 Presidential election) and in the 1883 Civil Rights Cases the Supreme Court deemed the act unconstitutional on the basis that Congress had no power to regulate the conduct of individuals. The Fourteenth Amendment prohibits discrimination by the state, not by individuals.
July 10, 2009 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you STILL haven't read the habeas corpus clause of the Constitution, eh?
July 10, 2009 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
We are talking past each other. What do the suspension of habeas corpus, the Japanese camps, black codes and Jim Crow have in common? Each is/was Constitutional.
July 10, 2009 10:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The detail on habeas that I posted was to point out that Taney felt that Lincoln's failure to respond to his writ in Merryman was unconstitutional.
July 10, 2009 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
And for completeness, SCOTUS upheld the Japanese imprisonment in 1944.
July 10, 2009 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Japanese internment was Constitutional only in the sense that the Supreme Court said it was. That was perhaps the second-most egregious violation of American principles in history after slavery itself -- which of course WAS, tragically, Constitutional.
July 11, 2009 6:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
The black codes and Jim Crow were ushered in by SCOTUS. SCOTUS defines what is Constitutional.
July 11, 2009 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sad but true.
July 11, 2009 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is a tendency on the part of some, if you deviate in any fashion from a strict given mindset, that you are 1) Supporting torture, 2) Letting Obama off the hook, 3) Channeling Cheney, or 4) Just like a Bushie.
One can look at a situation like Gitmo, realize saying you want it closed is the morally superior attitude, but actually closing or releasing cleared individuals from Gitmo does present some obstacles. When you mention the obstacles and ask for commentary, you are not supporting torture. You are asking for practical solutions. You are not looking for the "Fantasy Island" option.
The channeling Cheney etc responses remind me of one response to John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt's book "The Israel Lobby". David Duke was asked to read the book. Duke was then asked if he agreed with the book. He did. It could then be said that the Mearsheimer/Walt book was anti-Semitic because an anti-Semite like Duke agreed with the book.
Like the use of Duke, the use of Cheney/Bush is absurd.
July 10, 2009 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reductio ad Greenwald:
US history begins with the Bush administration and ends with the Obama administration.
Glen Greenwald is cogent and his facts are beyond reproach. His conclusions are suspect because he begins everything with the Bush administration, compares Obama's administration to Bush and concludes that they are more alike than dissimilar. It is a neat rhetorical trick that allows him to pull the same critical rabbit out of every situational hat.
It is a reductive fallacy. I wish as much as anyone that Obama would make radical departures from the slippery slope of executive privilege to unitary executive. But allow me to pick up my whooping stick and beat the same dead horse:
The record of the United States as regards civil rights and liberties is progressive when compared to world history, but overall quite poor. To pretend that indefinite detention and photograph suppression is somehow a bold and arrogant innovation is balderdash. This whole post is a rather relentless rehash that pits Obama against a history that does not exist. It is not as if the United States was a kosher cavalcade of civil liberties and peaceable intent until Bush came along... and now Obama is the bad guy because BB (before Bush) was idyllic and AB (after Bush) was catastrophic. President Bush merely pushed envelopes that had long since been extant.
The OSS cum CIA, the NSA, the Monroe Doctrine, Roosevelt Correlary, the Truman Correlary, the Bush Doctrine, Alien and Sedition Act, Espionage Act, Patriot Act... and the violent triggers that sparked expansionist wars. President Obama is a link in a long and undeniably expansionist chain of empire. There is no such thing as a radical turnaround of what is an irresistable force. With every expansion of our empire, with every consolidatory step towards universal hegemony, there has been an equal and disturbing expansion of executive power and diminishment to civil liberties.
Without this context, without this truth, criticisms such as those delivered by Greenwald and by extension Desidero are nothing other than spitballs from the peanut gallery. Because the focus should not be "damn Obama," but a healthy gaze at our own collective complicity in this mess. And that action taken must be of an intensity commensurate to the scope of the problem... and this problem predates Bush by a couple hundred years.
July 10, 2009 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, tossing out some historical names with no context doesn't make much of an argument.
Referring only to the post-WWI modern period, explain what large scale locking up people with no charges, no right to the courts took place. Japanese-Americans WWII.
Iran-contra was a scandal specifically because it went counter to Congress. School of the Americas was scandalous. When was torture of prisoners chuckled over by the government and the populace prior to W? Illegal electronic surveillance wasn't accepted approved policy under LBJ, under Nixon, under Reagan. The Church Committee did its best to roll back excesses it found out. There was certainly a contraction of presidential powers under Clinton.
This "we've always done it" sweeping excuse is nonsense. Look at the blowback on the Clipper Chip.
July 10, 2009 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Illegal electronic surveillance wasn't accepted approved policy under LBJ, under Nixon, under Reagan."
I suggest you read the findings of the Church Committee specifically related to COINTELPRO, MKUltra, and the Phoenix Program. I also suggest you look up the sordid history of the Espionage Act and how it was used in the run up to both World Wars. I am not just yanking your chain.
"Iran-contra was a scandal specifically because it went counter to Congress."
A scandal that went where? And had what consequences? Exactly who faced justice that was not either pardoned or commuted?
"School of the Americas was scandalous."
Really? A film in 1994, a name-change and a mission statement change... and the same old crap. Not much ripple from that scandal... one of the dead contractors in the lead-up to Fallujah was an educator for the School. He was still gainfully employed up to the moment that he was dragged through the streets.
"The Church Committee did its best to roll back excesses it found out. There was certainly a contraction of presidential powers under Clinton."
Yes, FISA was created, which rubber stamps all requests (modifying less than a half of one percent) are approved. And CIA director Colby was replaced by none other than George HW Bush.
And Clinton? Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.
I am sorry, Des, but I am not seeing what you are seeing. Maybe I've clipped too many newspaper articles and read a little too much Chomsky, but in my mind US history is pretty straightforward. And under my criterion, we have a long way to go, and Bush was particularly egregious but not abnormal.
Yes, I think you have a valid point that our nation is in freefall... but your focus is blurred. I threw all of those names out there because they form a chain. The Alien and Sedition Acts lead up in language and in deed to the Patriot Act. The Bush Doctrine is a consequence of the Monroe Doctrine. They build on top of one another and represent a philosophy of governance that has slowly built into what we now call neoconservatism.
July 10, 2009 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chomsky's usually too shrill for me.
I have trouble telling how draconian AEDPA is in practice, but it doesn't seem like it was anything close to Preemptive Detention.
FISA may be essentially rubber stamp, but they still have to justify. Contrast that to just grabbing millions of phone calls and sifting through them looking for whatever they want, it's not in the same league.
Sure, everything in some way is precedent. But what was the closest precedent in modern times to our invasion of Iraq? Certainly Bush's father didn't feel able to act with impunity in going into Kuwait and Iraq. Something drastic seems to have changed. Ronnie didn't just start overtly sending troops into Nicaragua.
July 10, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Panama, Grenada, and Haiti were a kind of precursor to Iraq... but Iraq is a particular sorry and tragic mess... an illegality beyond anything we had done before. The event that corresponds most closely to the run-up and invasion of Iraq was the Spanish-American War. That includes the generous media complicity and the horribly bloody aftermath.
Chomsky can be too shrill, but his sourcing is meticulous and he never fails to use actual government records and statements. I dunno... I just have no halcyon conception of my country. Part of my attitude comes with the weird feeling I have with my job. It is an uneasy relationship, to say the least. I think it has only deepened my disillusionment since my deployment. Anyhow, this is an excellent post. I just wanted to broaden the discussion in order to spur a more jaundiced view of where we are and where we might be heading.
July 10, 2009 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lessee, in Granada I think we had grounds for concern - I certainly wasn't convinced at the time. In Panama we were putrid. Haiti it kind of depends on which time - I think our part in deposing Aristide with our finely timed troops coming out of the Dominican jungles was rather horrifying, and then we tried it again in Venezuela, and we half succeeded and then failed miserably. Our misadventures in Latin America are legion - our own self-declared cesspool of interest. However, I'm still much more sympathetic to Pinochet than I am to the Argentinian generals. While we've been sleeping these last years, the Chinese have immersed themselves down south in a way that will have bad repercussions down the line, not just for us, but for democracy and economics below the border. While we bitch about ecology and workers' rights in our trade agreements, there won't be any such discussions with the Chinese. That doesn't mean I want to ignore these issues, but I want to be more fluid and fast-moving than we have been. NAFTA can be a good deal for all sides, doesn't take that much. We've screwed Mexico in terms of holding back trucking, controlling transportation for ourselves, and probably ecological concerns still rank high, but right now they need the investment to be able to compete with the Chinese both in China and in Latin America.
If we didn't keep wasting all our energy on the Middle East, imagine the results from pouring all these billions into Latin America instead. Brazil? These guys are pretty innovative. There has to be oil there somewhere.
July 10, 2009 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
And might I say, I appreciate push back, even push back that brings up "The Roosevelt Corollary", which might as well be Julienne Fries for all I know.
In terms of Otpor and the Orange Revolution, we cut our teeth both on Central American voting marketing as well as Serbian. Not surprising that Bush ignored the miracle in Belgrade where Milosevic resigned without us firing a shot. Not his preferred road to foreign domination, no flight suit, no photo op.
July 10, 2009 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Though I suspect that the American public will not be as susceptible to non-violent resistance as the ladies in Victorian England. I'm afraid the Black Hole of Calcutta would be received with a certain ennui fitting for Pax Americana and world weariness combined with superiority.
July 10, 2009 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
We should be more.
July 10, 2009 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Surely you don't want Snowball to come back?!?
July 10, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just dealing with where we are now.
July 10, 2009 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was supposed to be a response to clearthinker.
July 10, 2009 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Think about the fact that the new head of the CIA had to tell Congress that the CIA had been not fully truthful for years.
If the head of the CIA chief only recently found out about one of his agency's own programs, what does the daily intelligence briefing report given to the President really mean?
July 10, 2009 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zipperus -- I do not think Desidero is offering spitballs; rather, I think he is offering the invaluable gift of a non-oxymoronic cynic's impassioned belief.
Never mind. Addressing the heart of what you said: if what we need is "a healthy gaze at our own collective complicity in this mess".... and "action taken must be of an intensity commensurate to the scope of the problem... " then what action(s) taken by "we, the people" will be commensurate with the scope of the problem?
The one certain power we have is the ostensible power to effect change with our votes. Apparently, even though that power can be subverted, as it was in Florida (and by SCotUS) in 2000 and as it was in Ohio in 2004, it is still the strongest antidote we have.
But even that power is rendered impotent when the ultimate loyalty of the officials we elect is bought and paid for by corporate campaign contributions. So that flooding congressional and senatorial offices with emails and faxes seems to have no measurable impact whatsoever.
I'd like to think that public display of solardarity work. That the peace marches we participated in during the Vietnam war were pivotal to its cessation. But of course, in reality, they were not. Rather, the photo-op anti-war movement in general merely offered the Neocons some face-saving, plays well with the public rationalizations for their facing of the inescapable fact that we were "losing" their war.
What, then, is "action of an intensity commensurate with the scope of the problem..."?
July 10, 2009 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Peaceful civil disobedience on a scale that will effectively shut down the functions of government and society. Start small and work your way up. The kind of blueprint followed in the civil rights movement in the US and the ouster of British rule in India. Movements such as Otpur and the Velvet Revolution provide another kind of blueprint. It must be nonviolent, creative under the recognition that a certain percentage of a population can effect a non-violent overthrow of a corrupt government. That is why I advocate a larger view of history beyond the infinitessimal generation-by-generation POV that dominates US discourse. I see that our nation's history shows an unavoidable and unescapable flaw which is our government's vulnerability to collusion with business interests in the name of progress.
July 10, 2009 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
aeinstein.org
July 10, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I have to admit a degree of unease in even answering your question. I'm no Guevera... I am a jarhead and an artist.
July 10, 2009 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
A jartist? Or a jarhedonist?
July 10, 2009 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
J'artiste.
July 10, 2009 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Trés français. Peut-être j'arhediste hebdomadaire.
Il faut artister, il faut foutre le camp - a bientôt.
July 10, 2009 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Zipperus. Will read.
July 10, 2009 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like you, Des, I simply can't abide the torture, the secret renditions, the detention camps, the habeas-corpus-for-me-but-not-for-thee mentality, the coward's-way-out solution of military tribunals. It alternately sickens and enrages me. Always has.
After 9-11-01 we openly dispensed with centuries of hard-earned moral lessons, and traded accepted truths about the family of man for a lawless (and lopsided) never-ending blood feud. Once we allowed ourselves to relinquish our morals, we of course relinquished them completely. That was always the danger of relinquishing them in the first place, even to go after Public Enemy #1, Osama bin Laden.
Senator Obama talked the moral talk during the primaries, but President Obama's actions so far indicate a surprising unwillingness to walk the moral walk. Obama was elected to restore our moral benchmarks: I believe Americans would permit him to do almost anything if he could justify it in moral terms. That's where his political capital lies (and only where it lies), and yet he is squandering his greatest asset as if he doesn't understand just how tenuous his tenure really is.
July 10, 2009 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's most curious to me is that I thought you build up political capital in one way by being more forthright, by being stronger, by showing you're a force to be reckoned with. What is there to show for these unappetizing compromises, if they are compromises, except a sure demand for more compromise in the future? I remember Clinton coming out for a State of the Union speech and nailing down the corners of the turf he was going for that year, quite extensive, quite daring. And you got the idea that well, he's shooting for 20 yards and will likely at least get 15.
With Obama's limited goals, I just don't even feel like playing - health reform that's not really reform, detention reform that's not really changing anything except building a new prison in Baghram, "slow measured" progress on gay rights that seems to continually lean on giving preferred air-time and face-time to anti-gay sentiments. Sorry, coach, you haven't engaged my enthusiasm, and I used to have one.
July 11, 2009 5:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
As much as I regret saying it (being an Obama fan) I agree with you about this. Going for an ambitious agenda and settling for somewhat less would be far better than temporizing, tentatively.
July 11, 2009 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the best Desidero I've read and the best discussion on the Cafe in quite some time.
Kudos.
July 10, 2009 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Im out of words but I have enough left to say, Desidero this is an excellent work.
July 11, 2009 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can't add anything either; great post and comments. It all needs to be repeated over and over. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. As for transparency in government? It's clear as mud.
July 11, 2009 12:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm tired of trying to think my way out of the damn box. Anybody got a knife? (See: Gordian knot). Rec'd.
July 11, 2009 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kill Bill 2?
July 11, 2009 5:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I almost used a 'box cutter' analogy, but was reluctant to allude to the 'causal' event for the so called war on terror, suspension of habeas corpus, domestic spying on citizens, and general abrogation of civil rights in the US. Did I miss anything? Fill in the blanks.
July 11, 2009 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink