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Day One or Eight Years Gone?: Where Obama meets Cheney


Someone sent me an excerpt from Newsweek today that humored me:

The debates unnerved both candidates. When he was preparing for them during the Democratic primaries, Obama was recorded saying, "I don't consider this to be a good format for me, which makes me more cautious. I often find myself trapped by the questions and thinking to myself, 'You know, this is a stupid question, but let me ... answer it.' So when Brian Williams is asking me about what's a personal thing that you've done [that's green], and I say, you know, 'Well, I planted a bunch of trees.' And he says, 'I'm talking about personal.' What I'm thinking in my head is, 'Well, the truth is, Brian, we can't solve global warming because I f---ing changed light bulbs in my house. It's because of something collective'."

Aside from finally hearing the Big O drop the F bomb, I was reminded of analogous statement from Dick Cheny from 8 years ago:

"Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue, but it is not a sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy.


I think they're both right, just as arguing whether Al Gore overran the carbon credits for his house by flying while promoting his book. The difference is, Cheney never promoted a sound, comprehensive energy policy and now we desperately need one.

But as the Mighty Quinn knows, it's not going to be done in dribs and drabs. Recycling and solar and whatever all sound nice, but you have to look at the numbers. The HUGE numbers. All the factories and rice in China, all the cars in LA and Mexico City, all the heat for Europe and Japan and Russia, all the cooling for Dubai and Qatar. Using solar power and switching to energy efficient lightbulbs (and I'll be damned if I'm not out a small fortune in short-life crappy dim energy efficient lightbulbs, but I digress) will not find a suitable replacement for the internal combustion engine, and that's only one of our energy problems.

And this is only one of our major issues, but just to point out - the guys on the other side aren't always wrong, and the guys on our side can sometimes get mired down in style over substance, and for real solutions we may have to accept a little less romance and a little more practicality and seriousness.

Now Recommend this post or my Wiemaraner puppy will make scarey ghoulish faces at you and piddle on your keyboard.


33 Comments

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"short-life crappy dim energy efficient lightbulbs"

Yes! Man do those things suck. I did plant some trees though. ;)

I do think though that the right answer has to be a mix of policy and personal decisions.

"If every U.S. household switched just five most frequently used lighting fixtures from incandescent bulbs to CFLs, $6.5 billion could be saved collectively every year by Americans and greenhouse gases equivalent to the emissions from more than 8 million cars could be reduced."

But they gotta make those things cheaper and better. Mine keep exploding.

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The numbers look dangerous. 110 million households? Save $65 a year? (Meaning save $80 a year but pay $15 for CFLs). 550 million lightbulbs = 8 million cars? Cars that put out 19 lbs. of CO2/gallon of gas? (I found elsewhere 800,000 cars for 1 light bulb, so your source doubled the savings).

http://www.omninerd.com/articles/Gas_Prices_in_Perspective

Figures from 2004 (of course that's changed):
Electricity $1064
Natural gas $424
Petrol $1598

So reducing your electricity consumption by 6.5% reduces your total energy consumption by about 2.2%. Except that I think that running light bulbs via electricity is significantly more emissions efficient than running a car.

I don't know, you go through these claims and the numbers just come out funny. Your fridge, your dryer, your washing machine, electric heating & A/C all consume significantly more than the lowly light bulb. And then they have the nerve to contend that CFL's last 8-10 years and incandescents last on average less than a year. On what planet, I don't know. I write it off as a tax that I pay to help develop a needed technology that will be efficient in the future, but no need to play me as a sucker.

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It is not clear to me if you and Hilarym99 are referring to "dimmable" energy efficient bulbs. Maybe my lack of understanding is somehow related to my wife telling me I'm a dimmable bulb, but I digress...

In case you are not aware (many people are not), most energy efficient bulbs are not properly fabricated to work in dimmable lamps or fixtures, with the result that they burn out at ridiculously fast rates. You need special versions of the energy efficient bulbs that are expressly designed to work in dimmable fixtures. Most E.E. bulbs carry written warnings saying they do not work in dimmable fixtures. The ones that do usually have that written in a very prominent place on the packaging.

If you already knew all this, I apologize for wasting your time. If not, hope it helps save you some $$$.

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I'm just talking about those swirly looking things, and we only ever use them in regular non-dimming lamps. They sort of suck.

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Mostly I use them for BB gun practice once they've burned out after a few months. ;-)

But no, no dimbulbs, only on-and-off bulbs.

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Basically, you two buy shitty bulbs. That's what it comes down to.

Mine work fine.

Tra la, tra la, MY what wonderful light in this room.... tra la.

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Put it where the CFLs don't shine.

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Okay, thanks. Well, then I am at a loss for explanation. I use those "swirly" bulbs too, and needed special "dimmable" ones for some of my lamps. But since it sounds like you and Des use the good-old-fashioned on/off variety...

::Shrugs::

Good luck!

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Here's an idea better than light bulbs -- be a household that operates with only one car. Yes, there are some inconveniences involved in melding schedules. But I can attest that it feels like a real contribution, and the bonus is cutting in half (or more) costs for insurance, repairs, etc..
Someone said: "A pleasure shared is doubled; a problem shared is halved."

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Why? Forget the insurance & repairs - that's nothing for the environment. Now, with 2 cars do you drive twice as much as with 1 car? Doubtful. Then, what time and efficiency do you lose during the day? If I stay in bed, I'll consume even less energy. (Don't get me wrong, most of my travel is by mass transit, but half of the reason is that car travel is often slower and less convenient in the areas I'd travel with. I typically have a full car, but that says nothing, because the metro keeps running full or empty.

But the final is the kicker - if you and I drive less, the price of gas will go down, which will encourage people to buy more bargain gas, and the amount of driving will stay the same or increase. If you could get everyone to sign on to less driving, it might change the equation, but that's simply not going to happen.

So we need different types of energy that are sustainable on a large scale for centuries, as well as some large scale savings that will dent current growth factors in an exponential/quantum way, not just marginalized percentages that really mean energy creep.

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You've just restated Jevon's Paradox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

Nevertheless, I think learning to be frugal is a real good idea right now.

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I went frugal, and now everyone drives around me in monster SUVs and is hopping on planes for sunny retreats. Screw it. I want satisfaction, and the technology/business model that gives it. If your green model can't account for gluttony, it simply doesn't work.

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You can't *make* people be as frugal as you any more than you can make them stop smoking or drinking when you give those up.

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Give up *drinking*? Are you *crazy*?

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Des, Actually, by combining errands, there is less driving. But why quibble. I was not suggesting the one-car solution as a solution. Only as a doable start. I yearn for a world without gasoline-driven anything. Quieter, for starters; wonder what that's like?

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Yes, there's less driving, and I actually have a 1 car household with primary reliance on mass transit. We may have to do without for various reasons, but I still like to remind people that there's nothing intrinsically wrong with people wanting their own car or to travel a lot or use lots of electricity. It's simply that in our current situation, we don't understand yet how to cure our impending storage. Once we do, all of this behavior will become a-okay, and it's not completely shown that taking the pressure off consumption (which lowers the price) is actually leading to a solution. Every time I've dabbled a bit in alternate fuels, the price of gas drops and the economic incentives to do something else is lost. Of course if I had a trillion dollars stashed like Exxon-Mobil it might be a different story, I might be able to keep the work funded. But even there, it's not a given that a billion dollars spent will lead to anything significantly usable. I.e. it's tougher than snapping fingers.

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Ok, Obama just rolled out his Economic advisors. So how does the list look - for Energy, the Economy, Women, etc.?

David Bonior (Rep. 1977-2003); Warren Buffett; Roel Campos (ex-SEC Comm'r); William Daley (JP Morgan Chase; Frmr Sec'y, U.S. Dept of Comm); William Donaldson (Frmr SEC Chair); Roger Ferguson (Frmr Vice Chair of Gov'rs Fed Reserve); Jennifer Granholm; Anne Mulcahy (Chair & CEO, Xerox); Richard Parsons (Chair of Board, Time Warner); Penny Pritzker (CEO, Classic Residence by Hyatt); Robert Reich; Robert Rubin; Eric Schmidt (Chair & CEO, Google); Lawrence Summers; Laura Tyson; Antonio Villaraigosa (Mayor of LA); Paul Volcker.

What's that... 4 women? Some energy knowledge (Buffett, Schmidt etc.) Fairly established. Bi-partisan? Verdict?

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I think Obama picked up on my female CEO post a week or so ago - glad to know he's paying attention even if you losers are giving me short-shrift - 2 CEO's and one Economic Council advisor? Yeah, that's a good score.

Energy? Where is energy? I guess Dick Cheney took them all and they went home.

Anyway, aside from that small detail, looks like a sound, reassuring list. I don't know that they're going to do anything, it's just posting their resumes up so people know that experience thing ain't a problem.

I personally thought he should have kept the list anonymous and have Joe "Mr. MBNA" Biden meet with them in a back room, refusing to release any details. The "Dick Cheney did it, I can do it to" card. And Biden should shoot 2 people in the face, upping the ante. Or just to watch them die.

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I think Obama picked up on my female CEO post a week or so ago - glad to know he's paying attention even if you losers are giving me short-shrift - 2 CEO's and one Economic Council advisor? Yeah, that's a good score.

Energy? Where is energy? I guess Dick Cheney took them all and they went home.

Anyway, aside from that small detail, looks like a sound, reassuring list. I don't know that they're going to do anything, it's just posting their resumes up so people know that experience thing ain't a problem.

I personally thought he should have kept the list anonymous and have Joe Biden meet with them in a back room, refusing to release any details. The "Dick Cheney did it, I can do it to" card. And Mr. MBNA Biden should shoot 2 people in the face, upping the ante.

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Best part of your last comment was "Just to watch 'em die." So you take 8 hours to sleep on it, come back... and kill the best line.

By any chance are you taking night school? Dumbing down for fun and profit? Post-Obama political blogging?

Serious loss of credibility. Next blog, I better see at least Tropic Thunder levels of social disturbance.

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Hmmmm, I don't even remember deleting it - my doppelgänger? Anyway, I'll put it back.

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Actually now I see - the "just to watch him die" was the 2nd edit, just as I fixed it to Joe "Mr MBNA" in the good one.

No sane person would delete a good Johnny Cash reference, and there's no such thing as a bad Johnny Cash reference.

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Desi,

Rec'ed for so many reasons:

a) A recognition of what I (and others) have said all along: we will have to lower our lifestyle ultimately. There is no way to "replace" the internal combustion engine. It's one of the most marvelous inventions of all time. How marvelous? After 100 years, no one has been able to figure out something better.

b) A recognition that the progressives don't have all the issues laid out -- especially in this domain.

I, too, was tickled when I read Obama's comments in Newsweek. This is a clear sign that he understands the primary issue. As you point out, the question is what will he do about it? Especially since he will need to state something along the lines of Carter's "Moral Equivalent of Law" speech as I blogged months ago.

Only thing I would add to your post is a mention of peak oil and how it also affects this issue. But I just did.

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Damn, I had a good link on Peak Oil and let it drop. Oh well, it's out there, lurking.

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I thought it was interesting that at the recent ASPO conference, attendees were questioning whether ASPO had any continuing purpose:

The first ASPO conference I attended was in 2006, in Pisa, where it was hosted by Ugo Bardi. While I was there, I had the good fortune to meet Dennis Meadows, a man whose work I have known since I was very young, but which now has much more relevance than I first imagined. During his address, he told us an important thing: As events start unfolding and a general awareness of depletion arises, ASPO will lose its raison d'être.
Bob Lloyd put the situation in more explicit terms during the speakers reception, “We are facing the first impacts of the problem. A period of time is beginning when Society will be receptive to and will listen for a solution, but this period of time may be very short”. The problem is that there is no “Solution” for the depletion of Fossil Fuels, and ASPO was never was an organization of answers, but of questions. Moreover, it is likely that the problem must be addressed beyond the physical solutions.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4714

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Not related to the environment, but that whole extended Special Election article is a great read, even though only the first 3 chapters are posted so far.

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The personal conservation debate gets mired once it touches "morality." The Cheney brigade wants to distort changes in energy use into "Hairshirts." A charge which gets some traction because there are Greens who are Hairshirts. But Cheney's next move is to extend the "self-righteous" charge to those who aren't in the Hairshirt brigade (Gore) & call them "hypocrites." It's a purely political move, because Cheney-world's own hypocrisy is stunning - talking about Energy Independence, aiding Middle Eastern terrorist, economic efficiency, etc. - while doing nothing to change our oil use.

To escape the hairshirt dead end (and the uptightness of "eco-efficiency") Michael Braungart (working with William McDonough) proposes more fundamental redesign, along lines he's called Sustainable Extravagance. While I think our solutions are perhaps more about societal systems than product design, his image is quite nice I think:

"Consider the cherry tree. It makes thousands of blossoms just so that another tree might germinate, take root, and grow. Who would notice piles of cherry blossoms littering the ground in the spring and think, 'How inefficient & wasteful'? The tree's abundance is useful & safe. After falling to the ground, the blossoms return to the soil & become nutrients for the surrounding environment. Every last particle contributes in some way to the health of a thriving ecosystem. 'Waste equals food' - the first principle of the Next Industrial Revolution.

This "cherry trees in Spring" direction chimes in with that perhaps forgotten aspect of EF Schumacher's work - Not just Small, but Beautiful. In short, a levelled-down, ugly English Puritanism.... no. Beauty and efficiency combined, of the sort we saw in many earlier societies... yes.

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Or maybe "big and beautiful" as a valid choice. I know that doesn't usually inspire, or at least we've gotten biased against ever since Schumaker and Wendell Berry, but as you point out, our energy solution needs to be vast, so somehow we need to make these solutions more palatable. I don't know what that means, exactly. But we managed to make our cities a bit less of an eyesore (while shipping the problem to China & Mexico), and even if new solutions aren't quite as aesthetic as Paris in Spring 1931, perhaps they'll be satisfactory enough for the throngs that live there. (Trees, I hate trees....)

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I just threw some comments up on Donal's blog that may be relevant here, getting at some ways we can - and Obama will - change things that are large, systemic, but could also produce a great deal more "beauty," richness. In this case, by making our cities much quieter, the air much cleaner, the economy more resilient, and connecting urban-dwellers more tangibly to their surrounding countrysides. It's not community gardens or CSA's, but it just IS one of those elegant solutions that sees two whole systems get strengthened - transport and electricity. Also check the Obama-Maddow link if you haven't seen it. Here.

And no, it doesn't mean we don't need rail, trolleys, walking, cycling (skating!) for transportation - we do. I haven't had a car since 1992, and love London's Tube, Toronto's Red Rockets, walking to work, and above all, skating down the Assiniboine to work in the Winter. But we ain't gonna empty the 'burbs overnight, nor get transit lines into them all - so doing something with the car will be helpful. Not quite cherry blossoms, but just QUIETING them would be a big deal.

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"The American way of life is not negotiable."

Until it is.

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Weimaraners are cool.

Very needy, but sweet.

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Y'see that, Des? A new supporter, drawn here by... puppies. Just like I said. Who'd ever seen this "Articleman" character, until you added the new Puppy feature?

Now. Just add a bit more doggie detail each post, extend the 'piddling' out into a range of characteristic behaviours, a few anecdotes, and one by one... you'll build your Puppy-Lover Rec-Base. Another 700 or so, and you got a shot at catching Eastside.

Then (of course) you can blow it all back to hell by reverting to type - e.g. attacking someone's Gramma in print, letting loose (another) blast of sexist drivel, mocking the Inauguration.

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Don't forget picking up said puppy by the ears.

You don't trust me, do you?

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