Obama grants first formal interview as POTUS with Arab network
As Mitchell heads to the region to start work on Israeli-Palestinian tensions (good luck there, buddy) Obama sat for his first formal interview as President with Al-Aribya, a Dubai-based station with a reach of ~25 million in the region. It's worth noting that in the early days of the Iraq War, Rumsfeld declared Al-Aribya an enemy of America for showing videos of masked men threatening the troops.
A video clip and full transcript are available at Huffington Post, but I wanted to cut out some choice quotes here:
A video clip and full transcript are available at Huffington Post, but I wanted to cut out some choice quotes here:
"...What I told [Mitchell] is start by listening, because all too often the United States starts by dictating -- in the past on some of these issues -- and we don't always know all the factors that are involved. So let's listen. He's going to be speaking to all the major parties involved. And he will then report back to me. From there we will formulate a specific response.Ultimately, we cannot tell either the Israelis or the Palestinians what's best for them. They're going to have to make some decisions. But I do believe that the moment is ripe for both sides to realize that the path that they are on is one that is not going to result in prosperity and security for their people. And that instead, it's time to return to the negotiating table.
...
And so what we want to do is to listen, set aside some of the preconceptions that have existed and have built up over the last several years. And I think if we do that, then there's a possibility at least of achieving some breakthroughs."
"I think it is possible for us to see a Palestinian state -- I'm not going to put a time frame on it -- that is contiguous, that allows freedom of movement for its people, that allows for trade with other countries, that allows the creation of businesses and commerce so that people have a better life.
And, look, I think anybody who has studied the region recognizes that the situation for the ordinary Palestinian in many cases has not improved. And the bottom line in all these talks and all these conversations is, is a child in the Palestinian Territories going to be better off? Do they have a future for themselves?"
"I have Muslim members of my family. I have lived in Muslim countries. ... And so what I want to communicate is the fact that in all my travels throughout the Muslim world, what I've come to understand is that regardless of your faith -- and America is a country of Muslims, Jews, Christians, non-believers -- regardless of your faith, people all have certain common hopes and common dreams.
And my job is to communicate to the American people that the Muslim world is filled with extraordinary people who simply want to live their lives and see their children live better lives. My job to the Muslim world is to communicate that the Americans are not your enemy. We sometimes make mistakes. We have not been perfect."
Quite a departure in tone from the prior administration, no? Obviously, actions speak louder than words -- but this, if you'll pardon the Obama cliche, gives me hope.
Advertisement
Rec! I couldn't believe he actually said "contiguous."
January 27, 2009 3:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah,, Just like our contiguous 57 states Odumba claimed to have visited during the campaign, Yar!! Har!! har!! har!!!
January 27, 2009 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhh, a new contributor to the Society. Tell us, please, if your caustic comments are acidic or alkaline so we'll know what to throw on them for neutralization. You claim to be a "Northwest" Democrat (my term for democratic libertarian), which is also my orientation. Your reference to our President as Odumba, however, belies your true thoughts.
Not pretty.
January 27, 2009 11:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, north Texan. Never been to the Northwest. Don't plan on going. Bestiality is legal out there. Doubt I'd have much in common with that lot.
January 28, 2009 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Could you cite some actual laws for that? A Washington state statute that allows sex with salmon perhaps?
January 28, 2009 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's just that Texas sense of humor, such as it is....
January 28, 2009 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Empathy. It's not just for breakfast anymore.
What a relief to have a grown up in charge.
January 27, 2009 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's not the boss of me.
January 27, 2009 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey... are you guys still a British commonwealth country or did I read sumthin about that yoke being cast off? Just thinkin' about bosses. ;)
January 27, 2009 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll take instructions from our governor-general any day of the week.
January 27, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent move by President Obama. We can only hope that he both catches up and moves beyond where we were in 2000. We have been in a period of utter stagnation for the past 8 years, so much so that we can't even fathom how close (but still far) we were in 2000. J Street, which endorses the Clinton Parameters of 2000, links to notes from Clinton's pre-Taba proposal made on December 23, 2000. Among other things, Clinton also refers to the concept of contigousness that RTBG rightfully catches as part of the dramatic shift in the dialogue we see after only one week of President Obama's term.
http://www.peacelobby.org/clinton_parameters.htm
I am delighted by President Obama's choice of interview, and by his first week in general with respect to the Middle East.
Now, about the declining infrastructure component of his stimulus package. . . :)
January 27, 2009 8:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
In an interview this morning Jimmy Carter made the point that both Clinton and Bush waited to the ends of their terms to begin trying to open the peace process. I'd say the tempo has changed as well as the tone.
January 27, 2009 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, President Carter forgets that the Oslo Accords were agreed to at the beginning of President Clinton's term. Oslo was sidetracked by, among other things, the assasination of Prime Minister Rabin. Thereafter, I think it's fair to say that President Clinton's efforts were too little, too late. But President Carter's description of President Clinton's presidency is flat wrong; and after all, they apparently loathe each other. Have you seen this clip??? It's a riot but, dare I say, not exactly christian-like! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g6YnO76fOA
January 27, 2009 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I noticed that as I was watching the coverage last week. No love lost there.
I stand corrected on the Clinton record. Or more accurately, I should probably not used Carter as a source on that point. Thanks.
January 27, 2009 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rec'd, and yeah, what Orlando said.
January 27, 2009 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Phony, IGNORANT, dangerous, rhetoric.
January 27, 2009 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your presented argument is certainly compelling.
January 27, 2009 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now, now...don't be too hard on (s)pric. He/she/it has to adjust to a President who can use "contiguous" in a sentence. It'll take some time, and maybe a little therapy. But he/she/it will get there eventually.
January 27, 2009 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't be so hard on yourself. Might I recommend a book or a newspaper? That may help.
January 27, 2009 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, you too.
Many in his audience believe B. Hussein Obama to be the nest Caliph. At least the greater part of the posters here are presently living in his future Caliphate. His fellow Husseins can't wait to commence the head lopping here necessary for establishment of a proper Caliphate.. Let the head lopping commence!!!
January 27, 2009 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever.
January 27, 2009 8:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oopsie - this was for you:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/demosaur/2009/01/obama-grants-first-formal-inte.php#comment-3353904
January 27, 2009 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another pic for you here. Just a jpg, not a video. Posted by wingiest of wingnuts Pam what's-her-name of Atlas Shrugs, she failed to understand that most Americans take this as good thing not a threat.
You'd like Pam. She shares many of your views, except for the Jewish thing as she is one. But frankly these days you gotta take your allies where you can.
January 28, 2009 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
DAMN YOU & your head-lopping ways, Dij!
* I knew it. I knew it all along, and just didn't want to believe it. "Dij?", I said. "No way. NOT, Dij." But now... it all seems so... obvious, somehow. Keep cool, son..... keep cool. No time to lose your head. (Heh.) Better go out & play along. *
HEY Dij! LOVE the new avatar! Hope you're having a GREAT day! Power to the Caliph, eh?
Bye! *Don't forget to insert the smiley face, fool.*
Oh yeah! Hey Dij! ;-) ;-)) ;-)))))))))
January 27, 2009 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
:-))))))) oh... and this is for you Dij :-))))))))))) !
January 27, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have nothing to fear from me my dear Piglet, but you may want to avoid Renaye for obvious reasons. :)
January 27, 2009 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never fear, Q. First, your Canadian. Second, I'd have to dethaw you before commencing said headlopping and that's too much work.
(Wow, this Renaye is a real keeper :) )
January 27, 2009 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
So that's why your head is so far up you ass - Irrational fear of headlopping! Makes sense, but since you're such a sweetie I feel obligated to inform you that telling your head from your ass is quite a challenge which makes it not the best hiding spot.
Here's the scoop on avoiding being captured by those pesky Muslims...
PORK! It's like garlic to a vampire. Don't leave the house without covering yourself in pork. Pork chops are best though ham and bacon too. But not Canadian bacon - that's for the terrorists. You need Grade A 100% American bacon. And find an underground bunker so you can avoid the spread of the Caliph state under Barack Hussein Obama. Far, far underground with no access to the internet or civilization and stay there for 8 years. It's the only way to survive!
January 27, 2009 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Irrational fear hell,
If you happened to be shopping in Damman on Fridays when they lopped heads, the Saudi police would clear stores for a block or so in each direction and herd em down to view the spectacle.
Before I left, there was such a backlog of head lopping they started lopping heads every day but Friday. Irrational fear?,, Or an irrational 'religion'?
January 27, 2009 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
All religion is irrational, genius.
January 27, 2009 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Irrational is one thing, murderous is quite another.
January 27, 2009 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good thing the US invaded Saudi Arabia & put an end to that barbarous practice though, eh? Gonna make it hard for a Caliph-loving guy like Obama to cosy up to them. Guy like Obama'd probably want to start buying their oil & selling them arms.
Whew. That'd be nuts.
January 27, 2009 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
One thing you 'blokes' evidently haven't considered.
B. Hussein Obama's father was Muslim. Islamic dogma holds that all children fathered by Muslims are Muslims. No exception. Break this tenet, it's head lopping city.
Obama attended a Madrasa in Indonesia, largest Muslim country in the world. No doubt Obama was a Muslim at that time, his step daddy was Muslim.
It's said that at some point Obama converted to Christianity. Now that's a head lopping offense if there ever was one. Automatic Fatwa issued on that one. Notice he's still alive with head intact? No Fatwa? Hmmmmmm.
I don't see why Obama should be considered any more honest about his religion than the honesty of those guys who flew the airplanes into the buildings in NYC. Could have similar ultimate designs on our country.
January 27, 2009 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bummer dude. He won. Maybe your countrymen are all closet-Muslims that want to control the country. And YOU in particular. Of course, you especially. They want to restore fairness, justice, and equality. I'm sure that just scares the dickens out of you.
I mean, Muslims know that anything beyond 3 percent interest is usury. A heap-lopping offense, maybe.
Maybe you ought to be really ascared.
January 27, 2009 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. This is serious tinfoil hat stuff.
Perhaps you should read both of Barack's books and do a little independent research on his background before believing that crap on talk radio. You do yourself and our country a huge disservice by believing this sort of stuff.
In fact, you sound like all those conspiracy theorists on the far left that kept me from joining the democratic party. That alone should inspire you to do a little homework before you type.
January 27, 2009 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
What books?
Obama made less contribution to the books he claimed to have authored than Hillary. And it's said she didn't even read all of hers. William Ayers of domestic terrorist fame ghost-wrote Odumba's.
January 27, 2009 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're funny, I'll give you that. :)
January 27, 2009 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really need more information sources than Rush and Hannity. Of course, this is really most likely a "liberal" pretending to be a dittohead in order to make republicans look bad. Pathetically transparent attempt at subterfuge.
January 28, 2009 6:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
You don't talk to many Republicans do you? You must have missed the fall campaign too.
January 28, 2009 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I spoke with republicans like renaye and republicans like myself all throughout the campaign, though the former are admittedly more numerous right now and require a slightly different tone than the latter.
I am neither surprised that it takes some people longer than others to recognize a reasoned position, nor dismayed by the fact that a small percentage will never get there. My presentation must remain the same with both, since it is impossible to know which is which until tone no longer matters.
January 28, 2009 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah well I give everyone the benefit of the doubt unless they start acting like raving morons too. Then I give them things to google and ask them to factcheck me. One woman got incensed when her 16 year old son did just that while we were discussing some point and told her, "he's right mom".
Another guy my age came out of the house in the middle of a family party while I was looking for his son to ask me with a smug look what Obama had actually accomplished in the senate. The wife tried to stop him and other family members just rolled their eyes as if to say, "you don't know what you're getting into."
I happily informed him Obama got 70 amendments, and 16 bills themselves passed thru the senate. My favorite major accomplishments were the earmark transparency bill he wrote with the otherwise crazy Tom Coburn (OK-R) over objections to parts of it by Hillary Clinton and Harry Reid and the nonproliferation bill (both nuclear and conventional) he wrote with the not nearly as crazy Richard Lugar (IN-R). He walked away grumbling and his younger son came out to tell me his brother had moved out of the house, but not to worry, except for dad everybody else was voting for Obama.
I have about a million stories like that.
January 28, 2009 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really liked the story you told during the primaries about detailing the economic fallout from neoconservative policies as practiced since Reagan was elected. The Rich versus Poor narrative will most likely trump party loyalties in coming years.
January 28, 2009 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep in mind jason that "neoconservative" refers to the foreign policy of crazyass warhawks, mostly former Dems, like Wolfowitz, Kristol and Perle. The economic policies are considered "movement conservative" and predate the neocons rise to power in rightwing foreign policy circles by decades. Barry Goldwater was selling tiny domestic government when Eisenhower was warning us about the military/industrial complex.
If you're referring to the $10 trillion dollar trickle down debt diatribe I wrote last spring it needs updating since the financial crash. Those same fiscal conservatives who listened to me then are probably pretty bewildered by all the spending going on now. They'd love to believe government spending must be reined in as an answer to this catastrophe. I can quote them chapter and verse about Hoover and why that won't work but it has to be condensed for a 5 minute spiel at front doors.
January 28, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I use "neoconservative" as short hand to distinguish between people are simply of a conservative bent vice an ideological one.
Most of the PNAC crowd came of age during Nixon's imperial presidency, so I think their plans and predilections predate their ascension. That said, whichever term one uses, it does describe the same pack of scoundrels. A more incestuous bunch hasn't been seen since Boss Tweed.
I would love to see an updated post on how poorly "movement conservative" ideology has performed and why Ike was perhaps the last truly "conservative" leader of the republican party by those measures.
January 28, 2009 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just a friendly bit of advice. Your's isn't the commonly accepted definition of neoconservative. You run the risk of being misunderstood or worse, being thought ignorant.
And Ike was no pleasure cruise either. He turned over his foreign policy to the Dulles brothers who were a disaster for the people of Vietnam, Iran and central America. Overthrew governments in Iran and Guatemala and refused to accept a UN run election Vietnam. Ruined our reputation in those parts.
OTH he understood the danger of giving the keys to the treasury to the military but I think he was ultimately concerned about having both major parties trying to outdo each other in their hawkishness during the 1960 campaign. One thermonuclear bomb could crater all of NYC and kill everyone on the eastern seaboard.
Both parties seemed to be ignoring that fact as they campaigned on who would build more missiles and hated communism better.
January 28, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kennedy and Johnson weren't exactly a treat for the Vietnamese people either. No one party has a claim over righteousness in our sorted history.
All "neoconservative" means is new conservative, of which this current crop of clowns certainly are representative of and came straight out of the Nixon and Reagan administrations. If that distinction makes some people think I am an idiot than so be it, but that doesn't mean I am wrong or am missing something.
To move forward as a country, our various labels must be updated for modern consumption. Giving ordinary "conservatives" something to hold on to as they transition into the 21st century is at least as important as making sure the neoconservatives never gain ascendancy again.
January 28, 2009 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Personally, I've considered you enough. I so deeply hope that in the very near future, you will see a blog with my name on it. You are invited, no, _urged_, to click on the title and then "come on in". We need to have a chat. One on one.
To that end, you'll be speaking to Melissa Macklin. With whom will I be conversing?
January 28, 2009 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
How many wars and deaths have been caused in the name of {insert whatever religion here}, including Christianity? Islam is not a murderous religion; jihad is a perversion of the religion.
January 27, 2009 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not all Muslims are Jihadis, but you go to Muslim countries and, if you quietly pay enough attention, you'll find nothing but sympathy and admiration for the Jihadis.
Anywhere in the world you go. Anywhere. You can find people of any religion living peacefully side by side with people of any of the other religions with the exception of Muslims. If you have a substantial population of Muslims in the mix, you'll always have recurring conflict. Always.
January 27, 2009 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, I always thought that about backward 'christianists'
They're a fargin infestation.
January 27, 2009 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Saint Pric, Thanks for larnin' uz all about this stuff we nevah woulda guessed about without your help! Could you tell me where to join the local militia so I can get me an AK47 and some thermite and be ready when they come fer me?
January 27, 2009 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Marq silly, get thee to a salumeria! Pork, not guns! It keeps away the Muslims and the Jews which will greatly please our dear Renaye. Give pork a chance.
January 27, 2009 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen to that! ;)
January 28, 2009 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Help us out renaye, tell us why you think it's phony, IGNORANT, dangerous, rhetoric.
January 27, 2009 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you really want to open the Pandora's box of this person's "logic"?
January 27, 2009 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I keep saying, STAY AWAY FROM THE NEIGHBOR'S DOG!!
January 27, 2009 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Affirmative action education, my dear mark, affirmative action education.
January 27, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Renaye this
is for you.
January 27, 2009 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perfect, Mark. Think Renaye knows about the new "Give all the white peoples' guns to the black people" program?
Whatever scares you the most, Renaye. Whatever scares you the most.
January 27, 2009 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Geez quinn, you might as well do a complete blog post on it for all to see as long as you're letting renaye in on it. What a bunch of loose lips we all are on this site! Comrade Obama should have us all shot! (I include myself, I let this one slip the other day.) We're just pitiful.
January 27, 2009 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I went there.
My pony express internet connection won't let me download video and there wasn't any transcript. I'm sure it was good even though I couldn't make heads nor tails of the posts.
January 27, 2009 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aw dammit. It's really funny stuff renaye. You wouldn't happen to have a local library with a broadband connection you could watch those videos at do you? Sure I know libraries are all socialist constructs but it's either that or keep the links til Obama builds it out into your neighborhood and you can get a connection for what you're paying now like any Frenchmen or Korean.
January 27, 2009 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah I do, matter of fact I took my laptop to the library parking lot yesterday and enjoyed my first broadband ever. That was an experience in download speed even with the hated laptop keyboard.
I have to keep constant vigil for someone walking up on me though. If I was caught logged onto this I'd likely lose my memberships in all the community organizations. Maybe the rest of my family too. We're pretty tribal here.
January 28, 2009 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I concur on the hated laptop. Cumbersome beasts with dicey batteries, one clumsy nudge off the desk from death, with cheezy little keyboards and screens. Much prefer the desktop with the bigger screen and the keyboard in my lap.
Why would you lose your memberships? Where I live the library is free unless you live in an unincorporated area of town in which case your family has to pay $75/annually for privileges. But in any case there should be a MacDonalds or some kind of coffee shop with free WiFi.
January 28, 2009 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rec that!
January 27, 2009 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now I get it. renaye is hjeajous that Barrack Hussein Obama obtained an education when she did not and she blames it on affrimative action. She's crying about the years before she was born when whites fought to prevent blacks from getting an education. As though, if Obama had not gotten the eduction she would be smarter then he is, but now it is clear to everyone, she is not that smart. I pity you. It must be embarassing. If it's not, that might be due to your inability to grasp how lame your posts are.
January 27, 2009 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can vaguely remember those democrat governors standing in schoolhouse doors preventing blacks from entering. Or maybe I just think I remember it.
But I know for sure they were all democrats. Just like the democrat Roosevelt deliberately infecting Blacks with syphilis, the democrat John F Kennedy voting against the 1959 civil rights bill, and more recently the democrat senator from west Virginia calling Blacks n*ggers on the senate floor.
January 27, 2009 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting. Given the evident age of the personage in your photo, you were far from even being born, let alone "remembering."
Perhaps another life? Maybe you are a closet Hindu?
January 27, 2009 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
That picture has nothing to do with 'Renaye'. Renaye is not a woman, and he is in his late 30s or early 40s.
January 28, 2009 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's another one for you renaye, full of etiquette tips and feminine hygiene advice.
January 27, 2009 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is no way to refute your willful ignorance and inclination to maintain the status quo, while disregarding the reality thereof? If you want to have an impact here you would do well to do as Dijamo suggests and read, anything. At least you will be equipped to present an argument, intelligible or otherwise.
January 27, 2009 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
If no one responds to her comments then he/she/it/them/Rush L. will eventually get bored and go away.
January 27, 2009 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that how you want the republican party to be seen - as a bunch of reactionary morons with very little to say and even less to offer the national debate? If you disagree, then perhaps you can do so with more intelligence and evidence than this comment provides.
January 27, 2009 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I ought to reread Das Kapital, huh? Then I could quote it along with you lot.
January 27, 2009 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not exactly the argument at hand, but I am glad to hear you read Das Kapital at least once, even if your comments don't indicate you understood what you read.
January 27, 2009 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
So this "joining the GOP" thing was all a ruse, eh, Jason? Man, you had me goin'. Doing some serious Trotskyite posing there, dude.
Congrats on that.
January 27, 2009 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
:O)
January 27, 2009 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, right along your dog-eared copy of 'Mein Kampf'. oh, was that given to you by Pat Buchanan? i'm sure he signed it too.
January 27, 2009 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must have gotten hold of a bad translation, I couldn't read Mein Kampf. Or maybe it was over my head. That's probably it. Too Teutonic for me.
January 27, 2009 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awwww, don't be shy. We all know you're proud of that Anglo-Saxon-Teutonic heritage thing you got goin'. Me? Just another proud Anglo-Scottish-Jew.
Which would make us.... related, I think.
Lovely thought.
January 27, 2009 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno if it seemly to have too much fun now, Quinn.
January 27, 2009 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's pretty freaking funny, even if I generally disapprove of ad hominem attacks.
January 27, 2009 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
This one's for you jason.
January 27, 2009 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Odd that you would link to a site named Grand Old Partisan, when I am advocate of everything but partisan politics as well as republicans who identify with Taft instead of Roosevelt.
January 27, 2009 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jason I figure you and Zak ought to get along. He runs that lonely little website of his delving back into history when Republicans actually were progressives. As far as Republicans go you'd have an easier time converting him than you would most.
January 27, 2009 10:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, perhaps it would require more than scanning the list of articles and links that read like standard, modern republican fare that don't sound all that much in keeping with my ideals.
January 28, 2009 6:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Zak's whole schtick seems to be lauding Republicans and lambasting Democrats for their respective civil rights record back in the day and ignoring the changes of the last 40 years.
January 28, 2009 8:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Democratic successes in more modern memory, though not many in the last forty years, are certainly more wide spread than any small gains early progressive republicans made. Seems he is grasping at straws in order to avoid substantive change or debate. As I am fond of saying, any small success on my part need not try to denigrate a great success on yours. And vice versa I suppose.
January 28, 2009 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I admire what he's trying to do but sadly there's hardly anyone in the Republican party willing to join him.
January 28, 2009 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. A trend I hope we see change dramatically in coming years.
January 28, 2009 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Explain your reasoning, renaye. How 'bout it?
January 27, 2009 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
My reasoning; simple, and directly to the point.
I hold no truck to mealy mouth hum-hawing around.
January 27, 2009 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course your reasoning is simple. You would have no other alternative.
January 27, 2009 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say your logic is irrefutable.
January 27, 2009 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny you chose to put IGNORANT in all caps.
January 27, 2009 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ignorance is the primary result of an affirmative action education, my dear Dorn.
January 27, 2009 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well seeing as white women of which you appear to be one are the main beneficiaries of affirmative action by dint of the fact that they make up the largest demographic group that could be helped by affirmative action lemme ask you, are you speaking from personal experience? If so maybe you should ask for your money back.
January 27, 2009 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, we can't all get into Trailer Park Tech on our own merits. Some need a leg up.
January 27, 2009 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now mention welfare and you'll run the table.
For crying out loud, can't we get back to the topic?
January 27, 2009 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now just hang on a sec, Meanie. Renaye's got some real insightful opinions she likes to share on the (shhhhh..... Jews.) I know most of us have heard them before, but perhaps she'll recap - given the topic and all.
January 27, 2009 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, I don't recollect commenting on the Jews. Could you point me in the right direction? I'd like to read what I had to say.
January 27, 2009 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I donno, Renaye. It was that post the other day about Israel sending tanks into Gaza and bombing it and such, and you said,
"How much less besieged do you think you should feel by that same lot 'here' than the Gazans feel? Or to put it another way, would you rather be attacked by their tanks?, or their group of thieving bankers sucking the wealth out of your country before your eyes."
Maybe I missed the context, but seems pretty clear that you're saying the ones with the tanks are the same ones with the "thieving bankers." But maybe I missed the context, so people can go check the original here.
But it does make me wonder why the hell TPM's terms of reference people aren't checking this out, between you & Spric. Because - truth is - as far as I'm concerned, you're just another coward who won't speak their hate directly, and you should be shown the door. ASAP.
January 27, 2009 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just walk away Renaye....
January 27, 2009 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
And apologies, Demosaur, for this useless interruption. I just get irritated when there's someone dropping both Muslim AND Jew-hating stuff on a serious post.
Sorry.
January 27, 2009 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shoot, I'm just thrilled to get so many comments up in here!
January 28, 2009 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're stretching conjecture to it's elastic limit, aren't you?
Listen to a full blood second generation Russian immigrant Jew every evening on the radio to refresh my take on the world. You ought to tune in on him sometime. You'd learn something.
January 28, 2009 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Spell it out, coward. Who's the "they" you're referencing? The ones aiming their tanks at the people of Gaza, who also turn out to be the "thieving bankers sucking the wealth" out of the country?
You wrote it, why not stand behind it?
Either that, or be seen to be a coward.
January 28, 2009 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Umm. If you have to listen to someone else to get YOUR take on the world, it's not your take anymore. You've been took!
January 28, 2009 3:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who dat?
January 28, 2009 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Renaye did you know you can get your DNA tested and find out who your ancestors going many, many generations back really were? You may be surprised to find no one is "full blooded". Chances are your radio host isn't what you (or he) thinks he is anymore than you are. We're all mutts.
January 28, 2009 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Could be. Or could be the result of homeschooling.
January 27, 2009 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
=D
Could be.
January 27, 2009 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm so embarrassed on so many levels...you guys don't hold people like this against me, do you?
January 28, 2009 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unless Renaye's your offspring, you're in the clear on this SI. ;)
January 28, 2009 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, piggy...I worry, sometimes.
January 28, 2009 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is change I can believe in! Rec'd.
January 27, 2009 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is unbelievable to me. Incredible. And they told me liberals live in a fantasy land.
God it is fun to live in a fantasy land.
January 27, 2009 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
How did we get from there to here? :)
January 27, 2009 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's what I'd like to know.
January 27, 2009 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was an awesome interview. Obama is starting to piss me off on the domestic front, but this brought a smile to my face and some peace to my heart.
Helps bring some perspective to life. Thank goodness we didn't get stuck with McCain.
January 27, 2009 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great article.
I was actually going to use this as an example of how we need to act at home as well, continuing my theme of mitigating fringe ideologues by assuming they don't speak for everyone and acting accordingly.
I still can't believe we actually elected this guy president. Even a blind dog finds a bone every now and then.
January 27, 2009 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clearly a part of a planned, coordinated P.R. effort as Mitchell sets off on his first trip. As the NYT's article on it says in its title "Obama Signals New Tone in Relations With Islamic World."
There is also this on the State Dept. website:
but I haven't watched it and can't find a transcript yet.
January 27, 2009 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yet Obama made it clear in the interview that Mitchell is basically on a listening tour this time. I take that to mean we shouldn't expect any bold statements or initiatives from this trip. One concern is that Mitchell's itinerary doesn't take in all of the folks he needs to hear, and leaves out some of the most central characters. If he is going to listen, and hear something challenging, he really needs to listen to the people in Gaza.
January 27, 2009 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
True that. Seems the administration ought to find a way to leverage the work Jimmy Carter has done on behalf of the Carter Center. Last year he opened a dialogue with the Palestinians, including both Hamas and Fatah. From an interview on today's Morning Edition:
Carter has been criticized, at times justly, for his strident advocacy of Palestinian rights and his characterization of Israel as an apartheid state. But as a statesman he has tremendous insight and deep connections throughout the Middle East.
January 27, 2009 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
bluemeanie,
That is not Carter's argument. To be sure, Carter has taken much abuse from the right for his use of the term "apartheid," so he surely doesn't need us liberals embracing it as such. As Carter himself has gone on to explain it,
Carter utilizes "apartheid" as a warning, and clearly does not use it as an assessment. Carter obviously sees apartheid as an eventuality given the development of present circumstances, or following existing trends, which is very different from characterizing Israeli society as apartheid in the present tense.
January 28, 2009 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're right, and that's exactly why some of the criticism he has received has been unwarranted.
Thanks for the clarification. I generally try not to wander into discussions of Middle East policy because I don't feel I really understand either the policy or the players.
Carter does understand, better than most. In my mind, this has a great deal to do with the fact that is goal is achieving peace as opposed to implementing policy.
I'd be interested in your perspective.
January 28, 2009 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is what's known as bringing the fight to the enemy -- for real. It's been a while since we've really gone for the "hearts and minds" thing (probably WWII was the last time).
This, coupled with the frustration of Osama and crew in how to represent Obama, goes a long way in intellectually pinning our opponents and allowing us to apply pressure... and all without costly weapons.
January 27, 2009 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
WWII? You must mean the Airlift, and not the whole Atom Bomb thing, right?
Actually, I'm just bein' a wiseass, and I totally agree with you. Soft power has always been America's best game. We should break out the hard stuff only when really necessary.
January 27, 2009 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that I think the Palestinians and Israelis will be even remotely interested.
But hey, it's nice that he got face time on Al-Arabiya. That's good. Al-Jazeera next!
January 27, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not interested? This interview is being closely parsed in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, Ramallah and Gaza City -- not to mention Damascus.
The Mideast deck has just been reshuffled.
January 27, 2009 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Their representative governments, probably not.
But both sides have factions growing tired of the conflict. Many others are willing to listen to proposals, even those who might have to sacrifice something in the peace process -- but they don't believe they've had an honest broker at any stage, and aren't eager to waste time on pointless proposals. If Obama's administration is able to even fractionally grant US involvement some legitimacy in the region and bring people back to the table in earnest, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
January 27, 2009 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be honest, I was shocked to see a picture early in the war of Bagdad that included a big traffic circle and large, modern buildings. It was an eye-opening moment. Prior to doing any thinking about the war [and it will be obvious I had done none prior to that moment], when it seemed like we had a "noble cause" and all, my picture was of some watering hole where all these people brought their camels, camped out, smoked hukkahs, told stories, traded wives, and whatever. There was NOTHING in the news to suggest it was any different. The only kind of modern structures we were allowed to see were all those palaces where the sinks were painted gold.
At that moment I realized how big Bagdad actually was. Wikipedia reports there are 6.5 million people in Baghdad, and in the Middle East, only Cairo and Tehran are bigger. This suggests to me that, there are probably millions of people who would rather not have a war in their 'hood, and those people are more reasonable then the ones who were beheading people. It also seems that those head hunters are either retired, or dead. Haven't heard of one in a long time.
This article allows us to live in the present. I think Dubya and the Zom-Bushes were all stuck on 9/11, and their vision of the hijackers looked just like the folks in Iraq, and that vision was shared by a lot of ignorant people. America is going to be educated by Barack and we need to keep the pressure on people to open their minds and take a second look at the Middle East.
It occurs to me I may be back to where I was saying Warren was the opportunity to talk about the GLBT community. Obama is making another opportunity to talk about the Middle East. He is re-framing the debate by allowing more people into the picture. We were given around 5 people to think about in the lead up to war, Osama bin Laden, the Blink Sheik, and Saddam Hussein. As the war progressed, Muktadr al-Sadr and Al-Zahiri were added. Obama is adding more faces with this interview and soon, when America realizes there there are 6.5 million other people in the region, I think we will come to believe and hope there are some preasonable people with whom we can work over there.
Great post!
January 27, 2009 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good stuff Demosaur...
I really hate wishing my life away...personally I like living in the moment. But I'm so excited to see what the world is going to look like after a few years of the Obama administration in power.
January 28, 2009 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
In case anybody still wants to talk about an Obama administration Middle East foreign policy initiative...
demosaur,
So, what's up with the parenthetical snark? I just love how all us peaceloving treehugging granola-crunchers get a burr up our butts to display our world-weary cynicism from our comfortably Developed World.
Yes, I am naive enough to actually want to see Mitchell enjoy all the luck in the world in his diplomatic effort. But I am not so naive to suggest that these efforts won't come up short without plenty of work making the kind of luck it will need. The arms manufacturing and distribution industry is unfortunately recession-proof. Collectively, we need to develop business ventures and other economic initiatives that are lucrative enough to compete with the arms trade for the flow of moneys in the Middle East and other volatile regions of our unhappy planet. And none of it will happen through public displays of cynical giddiness.
The neoconservative vision of the world is not the only thing that was supposed to have taken a beating in November, and it's time to bury the notion of politics as spectator sport with it.
January 28, 2009 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink