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The other thing about electronic books


Picking up on Josh's post about the problems with Kindle and other electronic books.  He expressed his concern that Amazon could develop a stranglehold on books, or that many works that might have been preserved in book forms will fall by the wayside as technology changes if they're only published electronically.

My concern is more democratic.  If Amazon/Kindle has the corner on the technology, they also have the corner on what gets published.

But more than that, I know a lot of people who don't have computers and/or don't have internet access, either because they can't afford it or they live in areas where internet access is difficult to get or only dial up is available.

Right now, those people can walk into a public library and check out all the books they want for free.  Most libraries can even use interlibrary loan to get books they don't have in their collection.

If some or most books are only published in electronic form, economically disadvantaged people will no longer have access to them.  Even if libraries are able to provide some electronic devices for public use, the technology is too expensive to make it as widely available as books are now.

These same people already have limited access to a lot of information.  I can't tell you how many times my mother has called me all pissed off because of something she saw on TV that said, "For more info, go to www dot ..."  At least she knows me and I can look things up for her, but it's not the same as being able to see the info herself, and not everyone has a friend or family member who can help out.

And what do we do when the power goes out, the internet goes down, the batteries die?  Wouldn't it be nice to have a good book to curl up with?

Not to mention all the scholarship based on marginalia - biographers often go through a subject's personal library to read what the subject wrote in the margins of their books and which passages they highlighted. I've enjoyed looking through books that belonged to family members and others to see what they wrote.  There's the very human sentiment of knowing Grandma held this book in her hand, turned these pages, wrapped this daisy in waxed paper and tucked it in the middle of Chapter 9.

Remember the Star Trek movie where it was Captain Kirk's birthday and one of his friends (was it Bones?) gave him a copy of A Tale of Two Cities?  The only books available in the future were antiques. 
  

64 Comments

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I'm not an electronic book fan, but not for fear of control, censorship, etc. Tactility and practicality seem to favor real books. Do people sit in the bathtub reading their Kindle's like my wife often does with her books when she's luxuriating? Don't we have enough crap to keep charged already?

Enjoy.

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I wonder if you'd get shocked if you dropped your Kindle in the tub? I mean aside from the shock of what it'll cost to replace it.

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The shock would be the cost of replacement. Imagine having to face your spouse after leaving your Kindle in the seatback pocket on the airplane.

Thanks.

mp

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Or worse. Read the electronic version of a sad book, like "Of Comfort and Coping: Michael Rosen's Sad Book," start crying... electrocute myself... then a family member reads his book, trying to cope with my passing. It's electronic. They start crying. ...And a vicious cycle of E-Book tragedy and short-circuit mayhem begins. Makes me want to go out and pulp a tree.

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LOL. I'm going to steal that for the plot of my new novel.

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There is nothing like the sound of the spine of a new book cracking as you open it for the first time.

To your point on "marginal notes," not long ago I received several books from a friend who had passed away. One was a cookbook that had her delightful code of stars, exclamation points, circled minus signs, and of course her comments, and additions to recipes throughout. Best were the parts where she had gone into detail: "served this to the Joneses (name changed), (date omitted) and they loved it. Added dill and didn't use celery seeds. Perfect with the chicken, next time will try salmon."

A book is infinitely portable, requires no charging, and properly cared for, will last generations. The same cannot be said for Kindle -- more likely to become kindling in the future -- a "bonfire of the vanities," perhaps, that burns at "fahrenheit 451."

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That's exactly what I'm talking about, Jade. I love those little surprises you find when you inherit someone else's books.

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Actually, you can make the same kinds of notes on your Kindle books. (Electronically, that is, although I suppose you could do it physically as well.) You can then choose whether to pass on these notes or get rid of them, possibly depending on how embarrassing they are. (I heard some scientist types invented something similar for pencils.)

Kindle still has a ways to come, but the ultimate goal is that they'll be as cheap and as dependable as books, but more versatile. I'm old enough that it'll be hard to teach new tricks, but it's easy for me to imagine that Star Trek future where analog books (i.e., non-digital) are novelties.

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I didn't know that about the notes - thanks for the info. What happens to your reading collection and your notes when the Kindle goes the way of Beta Max and soon-to-be VHS? My dad's 8 track country music collection is sitting here gathering dust. I miss ol' Johnny Paycheck and Charley Rich.

Do you think they'll develop the technology to make your electronic library transferable to the next gadget comes along?

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That's a big problem in computer science circles, actually, and there's no simple solution yet.

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I went to the library today to fetch a book that traveled a hundred miles through the transit system just to meet me. It was printed in 1929 by the U. S. Government Printing Office in Washington D.C. Original price was $1.60 per copy. The pages are yellowed, a little brittle, the whole book crackles and smells like it's 80 years old. I'm in love with this book.

I don't ever see myself falling in love with a Kindle.

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I could have a fling with Kindle, but like you, I'd never fall in love.

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You ever spill coffee on one of those 'electronic books' well I am telling you, it is the pits. I mean I could only really afford the paperbacks anyway and they always curl up when you drop coffee on them but they eventually dry out, i mean you can always take out the pages one by one and hang them on a clothes line in your house in case it rains.

But the electronic book, hell, you call a service rep and they tell you to speak up and that it is your own damn fault that you spilled coffee on an electronic piece of equipment...

Oh and I love your new avatar.

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Little Debbie has a snack for you.

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I used to talk like all you people but I love my Kindle. I'm finding all the old sentimental gabba gabba gabba, plus the special feeling of ego stroking you get when you see someone checking out your books at a party (until you see them mouthing "sheesh, what a pseudo-intellectual twit!") is a lot easier to get over than I ever imagined.

And despite that, it's still a niche product. Until they do color for about fifty 2009 bucks, they'll continue to be a niche product, so I'm not really worrying myself about the future of the print industry, just yet.

What I will say is that one of the most surprising things about the Kindkle to me has been its potential to give new life to out of print and public domain works. The ability to publish those works for next to nothing and get them for free, or next to nothing creates the potential to keep books in print essentially forever. I think that's huge.

On my Kindle, I have the entire seven volume collected works of Abraham Lincoln. Cost me ninety nine cents. Shakespere, Melville and Hawethorne, Free. All of Mark Twain's works, free. Animal Farm, 1984 and Orwell's collected essays, ninety nine cents each. The Illiad, free.

Unexpectedly, I've been making quite a dent in my "gotta read that before I die" list because of this thing as well as hooking back up with some old friends from the days when I did my reading from libraries rather bookstores. It's been delightful.

It does make me sad when I think of libraries as I knew them becoming obsolescent or transforming into something unrecognizable. I adored them throughout my life but, truthfully, I haven't been in one since the 90s. That's the Internet's fault, not the e-book readers.

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I don't think anyone's ever said "what a pseudo-intellectual twit" when they looked at my book collection. Probably because I have all those silly true crime stories scattered amongst my Dickens, Steinbeck and Updike.

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Thanks Debbie, just when I was getting woozy in the field of poppies you send a fresh breeze. Caught up in the coolness of the electronic ink (santa likes cool) I had almost forgotten the splendid smell of a new book when you bury your nose in it.Can you imagine waking up with the imprint of a Kindle on the side of your face as I have done many times with books? I think of all the little improvised bookmarks I have used, hairpins,flowers,expired medical cards,notes, etc, what would become them? No I cant give up the pulp, we have been dear friends too long now, and manila is my favorite color. See Debs, you have invoked memories nearly asleep and for that I thank you. As for you little bookworm I have not forgotten you, you shall not starve,as long as I live, I will always feed you.


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DonDi, you could get a nice bildschirmbraeune* from that.

*screen tan, the complexion of someone who spends too much time in front of a computer

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Debbie what color of bildschirmbraeune do you get from a computer, blue or gray? Actually the Kindle doesnt have a lit screen, its more like a modern etch a sketch, written from underneath with electronic ink. It does have lots of tiny buttons though, so if you fall asleep on it your face would look like a wiffle ball when you woke up.

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Well, I spend most my day in front of the computer and my skin is pasty white. Same color as the glow from my screen right now with the big white page staring at me.

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I'm in love with my Kindle. I can carry my whole book library with me anywhere. Also, I get Whispernet free, which lets me order a book, wirelessly from anywhere so if I read a review about a great book I don't have to wait for it. Yes, it's instant gratification but I love it.

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I have nothing against instant gratification, unless I'm not getting any.

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(sorry about the long post..)

Books are wonderful. So much so, in fact, that my 9x12 office is crammed with 5 floor-to-ceiling bookcases, out in the hallway are 3 more, a few smaller bookshelves are scattered elsewhere, and many more books with no home whatsoever sit in stacks hoping to be read. Such are my credentials as a book lover.

Here's the problem: I am mortal. I don't know if I'll ever have the time or inclination to read any but a few of these books (some of which haven't even been read once) in the time left to me. In the meantime, they are taking up space that I would not need otherwise, collecting dust. We have so many of them, in archaeological layers, that it is difficult to find a specific book even when I am inclined to seek it out; I started to catalog them once but realized this effort was going to take time I didn't have (including reading time!), and procedures I was not willing to adopt, not being a paid librarian like my sister.

As much as I have loved these books, they have become something of a psychic burden. If I could give them away, I would gladly do so for the price of a little gratitude, but I have eccentric tastes: who would want them but me? Donating them for a library sale, or taking them to a used bookstore is mostly pointless - I might as well take them to the landfill myself. For now, they have a home, but the day of reckoning approaches.

What to do: I still want to read new stuff. If I lived in NYC, the solution would be obvious: the public library. But I happen to live in a part of California where public libraries are barely open and are severely underfunded; there is a used bookstore in town but it is overpriced and lacking the variety I seek. I vote for every library ballot measure that comes up, but to no avail. At least we have good weather, mostly progressive policies, mountains, the ocean, and redwood trees.

So I must buy at least some of what I read at places like Amazon or our wonderful local independent bookseller. But, like the Buddhists of legend, I want to escape the cycle of buying/reading/storing/disposal, feeling guilty about the waste involved in everything except, hopefully, the actual reading.

The solution I've arrived at for now is Kindle. Yes, it is Yet Another Electronic Device, to become technologically obsolete in no more than 18 months and some day - probably at least 5 years from now - it may get lost or damaged and need to be replaced (we do need to insist that Amazon recycle these things). But it is one that lets me indulge my appetite for book reading without adding to the chaotic pile of them I already have, and more.

It is the coziest electronic device I have ever owned, and unlike most books, can be operated with one hand. No, I wouldn't read my Kindle in the bathtub (I prefer showers), but at least if I wanted to do that, I could slip it into a zip lock bag to protect it, whereas a book I would not want to have anywhere near water lest I damage it (who ARE these barbarians who would threaten the safety of a book by reading it in the bath?). A Kindle will probably never have the sensual appeal of a yellowed, brittle, smelly, falling apart volume. I have some of those. I don't need any more. But I am getting addicted to the 'click' sensation of turning pages on Kindle...

I have read more in the last 3 weeks than in the previous 6 months. It is an immensely practical device for me. It will work fine for at least a week without external power or the internet, and doesn't ruin my eyes like a computer display. I wish I could read Russian or Japanese on it, and the available selection needs to expand to include my peculiar interests, but achieving this is just a matter of a couple of years (by which time I may have learned Japanese). I'll still find reasons to buy or borrow and read real books, just fewer of them.

As for the possibility of censorship, I don't see that it is any different than any other form of publishing. Amazon will sell pretty much anything other than bomb-making or torture instruction manuals, and there are many other places and methods to publish and distribute ebooks. They want to make money is all, and it costs them nothing to stock ebooks (unlike real books). You need an advertising budget & plan to actually sell anything, like any other form of publishing. That means the continuation of the sort of institutional censorship we've always seen and struggled with.

Marginalia. Actually Kindle does let you annotate, and they back up your annotations with your account. When you die, you just need to leave your login credentials with a trusted agent. If e-publishing takes off, this crude feature may evolve, and there could be annotation sharing sites where you can publish your notes before you die for future generations. This might sound silly, but the same holds for photo sharing sites, facebook pages, genealogy databases, etc. - people are going to want to make this stuff available for future generations (whether scholarly or not), and there will be convenient ways of doing it that are effectively permanent (except in case of apocalypse), if there aren't already. E-Executor services, that is what we'll call that.

As it is, printed book sales are down, and it isn't because of ebooks. Production costs (paper, shipping) are increasing, and profit margins are low, even with innovations like print-on-demand. It means many worthy works of art and intellect don't get published at all (probably ever the case). We still read, but only Harry Potter and Stephanie Meyer. With the distractions of internet, TV, video games, cell phones, IM, etc. people don't have the time, demand is slackening.

At least ebooks cost almost nothing to publish and distribute in some fashion, and those of us that support the new publishing models can vote with our dollars and time for something that might yet make the act of writing and reading books a vital part of our future culture, rather than disappearing completely or reduced to the ability to read and write ad banners.

If civilization falls, we're all screwed, of course; having foolishly invested in ebooks instead of survival gear, I will have to give up reading and get serious about my continued existence, and anyway books will be of little use (they won't even burn that well in the wood stove). But I'm sure there will be a few copies of Moby Dick passing around even then.

Just sayin'...


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I always identified with the Edward G Robinson character in "Soylent Green" who had one of the last collections of bound books left in civilization; the Corporations had digitized the world's libraries and the need for actual books was nil.

Sound familiar?

Charleton Heston, in his capacity as a police officer, is unable to find some important history on the Corporation's Library files. Heston knew that key events were missing and data had been changed.

Edward G Robinson not only had the books of the times on his shelves in his domicile, but had lived the events fifty years before in his twenties; the rest of society had forgotten the events and the last ones who had lived during that time were encouraged to make way for the New World; by going to a Corporation that eased them to death.

I expect to be one of the last collectors of bound books in the Darkening World.

Just remember...

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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You know Justice, I think along those lines. But we have 300 million people. If the fascists took over tomorrow (do not get me wrong for I firmly believe they did thirty years ago) there would still be thirty million free spirits who could read and write and like to read and write and will continue to read and write.

We will never, never go away. It is genetic. Therefore, there is always hope.

Every notice how the green crackers always taste like chicken?

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I sometimes fear that "they" are well-versed in how to thin our ranks. But even with that, I'm reminded of the last words of Sophie Scholl of the White Rose Society in Nazi Germany before she was decapitated; they could kill her but not the idea.

We still speak of her, we speak of Socrates and Jesus and Ghandi and King Jr; because of the idea.

The only problem is when the idea is subverted and changed; which "they" are also well-versed.

You're right, though; there's a lot of us. They may attempt to thin our ranks, but we not only procreate; we recruit as well!

With Kindles and books and papyrus rolls and stone tablets.

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I am a book lover and a Kindle owner. As others have mentioned, you don't have to have a computer or the Internet to use a Kindle. If you read through some of the Kindle forums on Amazon, many of its fans are in the 60+ age range that love the ease of reading that Kindle provides them. (I am NOT in that category of reader, please note. I'm in the instant gratification category.)

For fun, here is a partial list of what some not so clairvoyant people said about some new fangled inventions and crazes:

  • ‘There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home.’ — Ken Olson, President of Digital Corporation, 1977
  • ‘It is an idle dream to imagine that automobiles will take the place of railways in the long distance movement of passengers.’ — American Railroad Congress, 1913
  • ‘What sir! You would make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her decks? I pray you excuse me. I have no time to listen to such nonsense.’— Napoleon Boneparte, 1803
  • Sensible and responsible women do not want to vote.’— Grover Cleveland, 1905
  • ‘We don’t like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out.’— Decca executive, rejecting the Beatles, 1962
  • ‘While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially I consider it an impossibility.’— Lee Deforest (inventor of vacuum tube/electronic valve), 1926
  • ‘Man will never reach the moon, regardless of all the future scientific advances.’— Lee DeForest (inventor of vacuum tube/electronic valve), 1957
  • ‘Everything that can be invented has been invented.’ — Charles H. Duell (Commissioner, US Patent Office, in 1899)
  • ‘The abdomen, the chest and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon.’ — Sir John Eric Ericson, Surgeon to Queen Victoria, 1873
  • ‘Aeroplanes are interesting toys but are of no military value.’ — Maréchal Ferdinand Foch, 1911
  • ‘The Titanic is well able to withstand almost any exterior damage and could keep afloat indefinitely after being struck.’ — P. Franklin, Vice President, International Mercantile Marine, April 15th 1912
  • ‘Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of axphyxia.’ — Professor Dionysus Lardner, 1830
  • ‘Inventions reached their limit long ago and I see no hope for further development.’ — Julius Sextus Frontinus, prominent Roman engineer (c. 40-103 AD)
  • ‘640K ought to be enough for anybody.’ — Bill Gates, 1981

I'm not saying nuthin' about nuthin'. Seashell - 2009

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"Son, you're a damned fool if you throw your money away on that stock." My grandfather, advising my dad on investing accumulated GI pay in a new stock, (International Business Machines), following his return from the Korean war.

Good post Debbie. I like curling up with the analog version myself. Oh, and nice new avatar!

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Grandpa probably would have advised not investing in that new fruit company started in the 80s. What was it called again...? Oh yeah, Apple. :-)

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I'm proud to say I didn't lose a penny in the stock market. Embarrassed to say that's because I didn't have a penny to invest.

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Some not so clairvoyant people. Seashell, it is late, or early depending...I hereby award you the Dayly Line of the Day Award and Comment of the Day Award given to all of you from all of me.

These lines are precious. Just like you. hahaahahah

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dd, my first ever Dayly Line of the Day Award and Comment of the Day Award! Thank you.

I will cherish them forever, just like I do you.

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You should have a score of them by now!!! But your list should have been a blog anyway. You do or have done all this research. And it shows up like a joke from Q that you never expected.

You make this, this site/web/google a lot of fun!!!

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I like the Kindle iPhone app a lot because my iPhone fits in my pocket. I wish Amazon and Apple would be stripped of their intellectual monopolies so that competition could ensue. Kindles would be better if they came with Safari and had internet access. An iPhone with a screen the size of a Kindle would be awesome too.

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Those intellectual monopolies (we call them "patents," btw) are the reason those gizmos were invented.

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I can see advantages to using something like the Kindle. You can keep hundreds of volumes in a single device. When travelling on business, being able to take an entire tech library would be great. I currently use O'Reilly's Safari bookshelf; and almost all better tech books are now available in both print and pdf.

I doubt I would ever buy books for an electronic device that I didn't already own on paper, unless they were trash books such as popular fiction. Problem with those is, I can read a James Patterson novel in 4 hours, so why would an electronic copy be more valuable than the $5.98 copy from B&N remainder table? The paper copy, I can pass on to another reader. I'm stuck with the DRM electronic copy.

Also, I do not do business with Amazon because of the company's unionbusting activities. I buy books from Powell's Books, which is a union shop.

Thanks.

mp

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Marvelous discussion you've generated here, Debbie. I love a person who thinks outside the box! And so many of our people here at TPM do so! Thanks for your efforts in that direction. And all the wonderful comments on this thread. :)

I love books! But I do more reading on the web now than maybe any other way.

As soon as the iPhone came out, people started hacking it and coming up with new software for it and so on. In no time they'll do the same with kindle, if they haven't already!

Eventually, as we grow older, we'll all have to downsize.... well, except for the rich folks, who will need increasingly large armies of body guards. So I'm guessing one day, when I get to assisted living or something, I'll really appreciate a kindle along with my computer. Or maybe the computer and the kindle will somehow merge by then. Along with a phone. And it will all somehow be attached to our wrist... like a watch that opens out into a keyboard and a screen.

I'm glad you're here, debbie! It's us "do nothings" that the world is counting on now! :-)

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NYC girl here. Have about an hour commute daily where it would be lovely to just pop out the Kindle and read rather than lug around a heavy hardcover book. And between the books in storage at my mom's house and on my bookshelf, I have very limited space for books. Too forgetful for the library so I end up owing fines more than the cost of buying the book. So the Kindle makes sense in my world. But for books that I love and treasure, I'd always invest in the hardcover edition for the bookshelf.

Any indication on whether the author receives more or less compensation via Kindle? Seems a much cheaper mode of production & the author should get a higher cut.

Nice post Debbie and suprisingly I love the new avatar too :)

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I imagine the author's cut would be the same - or possibly less. They always find a way to screw the writer.

Thanks for the compliment on my avatar. I'm quite proud of Little Debbie myself.

I'm one of those old curmudgeons who gets most of my books from the library. I haven't done my fair share to support the publishing industry and then I whine because I can't get my novel published.

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Using your library does support publishing! :)

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You have a good sense of humor and a hilarious avatar. That should help you get published.

OK, the first one should help. The second...

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If I was Paris Hilton, it would've been published a long time ago. She's had 2 or 3 books. I've read and heard things from the industry saying that people who look attractive and are good at interviews are far more likely to get their work (often ghost written) published.

Same problem that's going on in the music business - they look at the artist's picture before they listen to the demo.

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Attractive. So that's it. I am going in with a gun to see that sob plastic surgeon that I got off on a drug charge. TODAY DAMN IT.

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Actually, if you self-publish on Amazon you set the price and get 35% of that for each sale. It probably works out about the same percentage as self-publishing a printed book, but costs almost nothing to produce and distribute, so break-even should be easier to achieve. Terms with other ebook marketplaces should be similar.

Of course, ebooks still represent a small fraction of the publishing business. But there's no reason to wait for a print publisher to take on your project before publishing an ebook - in fact, doing so and generating some sales this way may make it more likely that it will be picked up.

So publish that novel!

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My writers' group would kick me out if I self-published. Not seriously but they feel like you're not really published until someone else decides you're worthy. They even look down on my blogging.

Eventually they'll come around though. And eventually I'll give up on trying to find an agent or a publisher and do the Amazon thing.

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"But for books that I love and treasure, I'd always invest in the hardcover edition for the bookshelf."

Exactly.

People want more options, not less. I want Kindle for the metro, but a paper book for the beach or for my bookshelf.

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I think it's very unlikely that Amazon would control content. There will be different ways to read books online, one can already read many older books. I don't think that serious books will be read on this device. Mostly your potboilers. So who cares. I could be really, really wrong of course.

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Amazon's proprietary format is very foolish. Apparently, they were pressured by DRM-hungry publishers, who apparently haven't noticed that DRM failed miserably for music.

I have more comments on this on my own blog post, but I think Josh is being alarmist about the future of books or that us technophiles will ever allow Amazon to control books. The tech community has actually achieved steady victories over powerful companies in pushing for open formats.

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p.s. The "death of books" reminds me of how every decade or so someone pronounces the "death of painting".

Supposedly the rise of photography in the early 20th century was going to be its demise. Over a century later, there are more painters, amateur and professional, alive today than probably ever existed.


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Wot I said, izn't it?

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I thought your long list was refering to people resisting new technology, not predicting the demise of older ones.

But I think people searching for the One Big Thing have missed a hidden trend in tech -- Many Little Things that we are perfectly happy with. iPod, cellphone, netbook, laptop, Kindle, paper books, and -- gasp -- paper newspapers ... I'm fine juggling all of them. Just like my computer plays DVDs, but I'd still rather have a dedicated DVD player.

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Great overview of this - and thank you for covering it, honestly - I've been freaked out about the book industry, to say the least. And not only do I fear the heck out of e-books and things like Kindle, I'm afraid that, with book prices needing to go up to keep the industry afloat, I'm not going to be able to afford all the stuff I want to read. Of course the library is an immediate "duh" response to this - but I don't live near one and they never carry what I want when I actually trek my butt over there.

I don't want digital! I want paper and I want the feel, smell, and comfort of holding a real book in my hands. So what are my options? Anyone have any suggestions/advice on a cheap way to keep books alive?? I'm looking into rental/borrow/swap sites....specifically BookSwim.com....3 books a month for 10 bucks?

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