Small town editoral tells the truth about the Stimulus
The article is entitled: "No shelter from storm."
The editorial suggests Obama's Stimulus largely went to keeping unionized government employees living a life style largely being paid for by taxpayers' credit. And that should the economy continue to nose dive, a second stimulus package will have to be created to further support life style. Their reasoning: There is simply no way to cut five-billion dollars out of the state budget.
As a taxpayer who happens not to be living off of taxpayers' credit, I wonder just how long will it take our political leaders to say enough is enough. We all must share the growing economic burden. Contract government employees must start thinking about serious wage and benefits reductions, perhaps as much as 50% or more in order to avoid a second stimulus.
ex animo
davidfarrar













You really don't have a clue do you?
August 8, 2009 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really don't have a clue do you?
August 8, 2009 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really don't have a clue do you?
August 8, 2009 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with foxie, and isn't it weird that this diary right out of Rush Limbaugh got 10 recommends?
Golly, it's almost enough to make a reasonable person just a wee bit paranoid!
10 recommends (so far!) for semi-literate tax-rebellion horse-shit on TPMCafe!
August 8, 2009 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Typical ad hominem remark. You can't address the point, so you attack the messenger.
I was hoping we could get a decent discussion going about the growing power of the state and its organized employees versus the taxpayer. It is a discussion that needs to be had.
As the article suggest, this "axis of power" has already mortgaged our children's economic future, now they want to mortgage more of our future simply to avoid lowering their own wages and benefits. In another time and place this would be called fascism, except instead of the power of the state combining with capitalist, this time around, it's the power of the state combining with the power of organized labor. In either instance, the taxpayer is the victim.
ex animo
davidfarrar
August 8, 2009 10:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
...and where were you the last eight years?
We have the names and can visit the graves in the thousands of the victims of the Bush administration.
Don't need no moral philosophy from the Bush Base white boy.
August 8, 2009 11:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ad hominem, ad hominem, ad hominem, with a little bit of racism thrown in at the very last; nice.
ex animo
davidfarrar
August 9, 2009 7:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey ... Tommy Tonsillitis . . .
Pick up the white courtesy telephone ... there's a message for you that you have yet to answer over here in your deceptive thread . . .
Not that it will make any difference to such a troublemaker such as you, as you have exhibited by your actions here in the Cafe . . .
~OGD~
August 10, 2009 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to agree with Noble where we you for the past eight years when Bush and the Republicans took a surplus and turned into a whopping deficit. The largest in history. And yes the deficit has gone up under Obama, but do really know how much his
policies have contributed to the new deficit number? Let me enlighten you - a sliver - 7% comes from the stimulus bill, and 3% from proposed healthcare, energy and education. Thats it! Obama's policies have increased the deficit by a whopping 10%.
Explain to me why the right all of a sudden gets cranked about spending only when they aren't the ones doing the spending.
August 9, 2009 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Because of what is to come. And let's be clear here, the "foundation" of this economy isn't -- I repeat -- isn't gov't employees, it is the marketplace, particularly the manufacturing base. It is they, and they alone who create the wealth from which all other gov't employees feed. Destroy the manufacturing base of your economy and all else will eventually stop.
ex animo
davidfarrar
August 9, 2009 7:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
The foundation of the economy is people having jobs and money in their pockets to buy stuff from the holy free market. Government employment, along with unemployment benefits, is one of the most important safety nets for an economy in free fall because of spiraling unemployment. Most state governments, however, can't borrow and have to have balanced budgets. Which means if state revenues decline sharply because imbecilic Repuglican free market dogmatists in D.C. resisted placing any constraints on the derivatives markets or unscrupulous and irrational home lending and enabled the worst economic decline since 1929, the states either have to raise taxes or cut the payroll or both. Neither of those is a good thing in a recession, especially given that states tend to use regressive forms of taxation such as property and sales taxes.
So either the feds give them money to stay afloat or they fire people--which they're doing anyway, increasing unemployment and further dragging down the economy.
Keeping people working is the most important thing to keeping your holy free market functioning. I know you guys think the free market is like some magical supernatural force that sprinkles magic prosperity pixie dust on us all if it is worshipped properly and the appropriate rituals are performed, but, really, it's all about people having jobs so they can buy stuff.
And here's another of those things that you guys tell yourself that just aren't true: most state employees in most states aren't "unionized." They belong to toothless employee associations that don't have the right of collective bargaining and don't have the power to strike. Some large municipalities have some unionized employees, but not state governments.
And ya know what else? Being unionized doesn't make your job less worthy or your work less important than a nonunionized job. Hard to believe, but true. Unionized employees work, just like you ununionized salt of the earth types and most of the time, they're doing something more important than whatever the hell it is you do.
Numbnuts. (Just wanted to throw in an ad hominium so you'd have an excuse to ignore all of this.)
August 9, 2009 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Democrats aren't also to blame for irrational home lending??
August 10, 2009 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
If, as you write, the foundation of this economy isn't gov't employees, it is the marketplace, particularly the manufacturing base, then why did the so-called "free marketeers" do so much to destroy that base over the last decade or so??
I don't think you can blame that on government employees, like, say, firemen and teachers.
It's pretty obvious to most of us where the blame lies.
August 9, 2009 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey ... Tommy Tonsillitis . . .
Pick up the white courtesy telephone ... there's a message for you that you have yet to answer over here in your deceptive thread . . .
Not that it will make any difference to such a troublemaker such as you, as you have exhibited by your actions here in the Cafe . . .
~OGD~
August 10, 2009 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not true. The 2009 deficit will be the largest in history. Partly the Bush administration's doing but significantly on Obama's shoulders too. That omnibus spending bill passed earlier this year can't be attributed to Bush. And the CBO's deficit projections for the next 10 years are also squarely on Obama's shoulders. We've never seen budget deficits, as a % of the economy, as big as what Obama is proposing.
And whether Bush ran deficits or not isn't really the point. Those were different economic times than what we're living in today. The answer can't be "well you were OK with Bush doing it so don't complain". The size of these deficits dwarf what Bush did
August 10, 2009 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey ... Tommy Tonsillitis . . .
Pick up the white courtesy telephone ... there's a message for you that you have yet to answer over here in your deceptive thread . . .
Not that it will make any difference to such a troublemaker such as you, as you have exhibited by your actions here in the Cafe . . .
~OGD~
August 10, 2009 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
When the messenger offers only lies, BS, and recs himself... yeah that messenger IS the point because he is pointless.
Just because you used 10 recs instead of 56 doesn't make your position any more legitimate.
August 9, 2009 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Contract government employees must start thinking about serious wage and benefits reductions, perhaps as much as 50% or more in order to avoid a second stimulus.
Must we?
Or, we could get out of Iraq? Or we could hire auditors to recover the taxes not paid by corporations these past several years? Or we could tax soda pop? Or we could stop corporate welfare? Or we could put tariffs on Chinese imports, a mere 1%, let's say, and see what that gets us?
Frankly, I want the gov't and all laborers to make more as it raises my wages too. I don;t see how tearing apart the foundation will strengthen the structure.
August 9, 2009 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Or we could reduce state and federal wage and benefits by 50% and cut taxes on all production inside the U.S.
ex animo
davidfarrar
August 9, 2009 7:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
gregor's ideas are better than yours.
August 9, 2009 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it's utterly ludicrous to ask people, whose wages have been flat for 25 years, to take more of a hit.
But, hey, if David wants to go first, I'll consider it. Let's see him and his friends give up 50% of their income for 'the good of the country' and what kind of impact that makes, then we can follow suit. Just write out a check David. I think you write it to 'the Treasury of the United States.'
=D
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
August 9, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
That would be like paying taxes, and wing-nuts really HATE paying taxes. So, that would be a resounding, "No." Reduced pay is the answer - oh, and it's just for the middle class.
August 9, 2009 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
And you said not to feed him.
Has anyone noted that the bailout was a Bush/Fed initiative?
August 9, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Caught! You are right! I just couldn't resist jumping in, but good point!
August 9, 2009 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The war was a Bush initiative too. But does that mean that Obama should be continuing the war and continuing the bailouts?? I don't think so. Just because you can blame Bush for starting it doesn't mean that Obama is OK to continue it. Same for the deficit. Yes, Bush ran deficits. But does that give Obama the right to run deficits that are significantly larger? ($1 trillion on average for the next 10 years according to CBO's latest projections on www.cbo.gov)
August 10, 2009 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, that's a great idea, genius. That way they'll have almost nothing left to buy stuff after they pay rent, utilities and rice and beans for their kids. All those people not buying stuff will most assuredly do do wonders for the magical free market in the alternative universe you halfwits inhabit.
August 9, 2009 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
So let me see if I got this straight. You want to cut state and federal employees wages by half which would put the average teachers salary at around 25K. The average police officer's salary at around 22K, the average fire fighters salary at around the same amount. Well I'm sure these numbers will attract the best and the brightest to teach our children and insure our safety.
One of these days you must tell me what you do for a living that you feel that your tax burden is so horrific that you are willing to put so much at risk.
As to loosing our manufacturing base. I just don't see how the blame can be laid at the fee of government workers or unions for that matter. Next as to corporate tax breaks to do realize that in any given year approx 60% of all corporate entities pay zero in taxes thanks to the numerous tax breaks and loop holes they already receive.
August 9, 2009 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey ... Tommy Tonsillitis . . .
Pick up the white courtesy telephone ... there's a message for you that you have yet to answer over here in your deceptive thread . . .
Not that it will make any difference to such a troublemaker such as you, as you have exhibited by your actions here in the Cafe . . .
~OGD~
August 10, 2009 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny how when an article satisfies the reader's point of view, it's telling "the truth." Anytime I see that, I know that the poster isn't after "the truth," he or she is just after validation.
August 9, 2009 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
David,
I appreciate that you backed off of self-recommending your posts to the top or 'recommended readers posts' and now appear to be content to only self-recommend enough to keep yourself among the 'recommended reader posts'.
But please consider the fact that what you are sharing here is no more appreciated up here...
As they were in their 'true' position of zero recommends under 'recent reader posts'.
You may have figured out how to hijack the system (thanks by the way, I think it will give TPM a chance to make some changes to prevent it in the future) but you can't 'force' people to agree with perspectives that we in no way agree with.
I would say that a majority of not only find the perspectives expressed by the likes of Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, and O'Reilly completely 'ignorant', many of us actually despise them for being intentional volunteers for lying to and misleading the public for the sake of their own notoriety and financial gain.
If we wanted to engage Fox "News', we'd go to Fox. There's a reason why we are here and NOT there. And there's a reason that without cheating your blogs get no rec's here.
August 9, 2009 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice, but it's entirely possible Josh and crew figured out what Farrar was doing. The lack of high number recs has nothing to do with Farrar suddenly developing a sense of integrity.
In fact, given his attitude, I think it's more probable that some intervention from TPM is more likely. The fact is, since this blog was put up yesterday evening around 7:00 p.m. the rec numbers have assumed their more normal weekend levels. TPM has always tended to play down outside attacks, in order to not invite new ones. A wise policy, I think.
But kudos for taking the high road, sync. I'm just not sure Farrar deserves the consideration.
August 9, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Possibly but I would bet money he will keep himself in 'recommended reader posts'... let's watch and see what happens. I hope you are right.
August 9, 2009 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yez, if he can.
=D
(feet and feathers crossed)
August 9, 2009 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well,
As you see, David is keeping himself rec'd to just enough to keep himself in 'recommended posts'. We'll make sure TPM knows about this David.
August 9, 2009 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
He didn't recommend this post.
August 10, 2009 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn unions! Damn taxes!
August 9, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record, I have nothing to do with the number of "rec's" my posts are receiving. But I am glad to see they are driving you people up a wall.
I will respond later to some of these posts. But most, if not all, are pretty must off point.
ex animo
davidfarrar
August 9, 2009 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Bush administration and Federal Reserve initiated the bailout in the fall of 2008. Obama inherited the mess. Trying to repaint this as an act of the current administration throws your hypocrisy into vivid relief. Please keep posting.
August 9, 2009 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey ... Tommy Tonsillitis . . .
Pick up the white courtesy telephone ... there's a message for you that you have yet to answer over here in your deceptive thread . . .
Not that it will make any difference to such a troublemaker such as you, as you have exhibited by your actions here in the Cafe . . .
~OGD~
August 10, 2009 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey ... Tommy Tonsillitis . . .
Pick up the white courtesy telephone ... there's a message for you that you have yet to answer over here in your deceptive thread . . .
Not that it will make any difference to such a troublemaker such as you, as you have exhibited by your actions here in the Cafe . . .
~OGD~
August 10, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink