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Third parties? (answering Dickday)
In my last post I wrote:
Just a short reply.
I don't know.
Short.
They say that necessity creates the organ.
What I am noticing is a change in the USA that is not yet reflected in the political system.
Class divisions in the USA are beginning to harden in ways similar to third world countries. This is totally new.
How, exactly, this will change American politics I'm not sure, but I'm sure it will.
I also see for the first time in US history (correct me if I'm wrong here) the appearance of a large group of university educated cadres who are not being employed at the level they were trained for and whose social and economic aspirations are being frustrated.
Highly trained, life is passing them by.
This class of frustrated intellectual is historically the most volatile and subversive political actor of all. These are the people that make revolutions.
So, in my opinion, something is going to happen as this class of highly trained malcontents grows.
Growing inequality, hardening class differences and a large mass of frustrated university graduates is an explosive mix.
This is why the police and the army are always occupying college campuses in the countries with great inequality and poverty.
I don't know when this will all come to a head, but in less there is some sort of miracle, come it will.
The Democratic Party is one of the two right wings of Gore Vidal''s "Party of Property".
American politics is a pantomime where these two right wings carry out their Punch and Judy show. The idea being that everything changes so that nothing ever changes (hat to Lampedusa).
The Democratic Party is designed to neutralize unrest and dampen progressive politics and if the present social and economic trends continue it will go the way of the Whigs.
When?
When was New Orleans supposed to flood?
When will the San Andreas fault shrug?
Things that are just waiting to happen.
Certainly I think the progressive community of the United States deserves a better home than the Democratic party. Things have to get done, people have to get organized, strikes and demonstrations have to be called and the Democrats are never going to do any of that... They exist so that those things wont ever happen.To which Dickday sagely inquired:
DAVID, WHAT IS THE FRICKIN ALTERNATIVE?Because of the time zone difference between Madrid and the USA I was happily in dreamland when he posted that comment and by the time I was back online my post had rolled off into TPM purgatory.
Just a short reply.
I don't know.
Short.
They say that necessity creates the organ.
What I am noticing is a change in the USA that is not yet reflected in the political system.
Class divisions in the USA are beginning to harden in ways similar to third world countries. This is totally new.
How, exactly, this will change American politics I'm not sure, but I'm sure it will.
I also see for the first time in US history (correct me if I'm wrong here) the appearance of a large group of university educated cadres who are not being employed at the level they were trained for and whose social and economic aspirations are being frustrated.
Highly trained, life is passing them by.
This class of frustrated intellectual is historically the most volatile and subversive political actor of all. These are the people that make revolutions.
So, in my opinion, something is going to happen as this class of highly trained malcontents grows.
Growing inequality, hardening class differences and a large mass of frustrated university graduates is an explosive mix.
This is why the police and the army are always occupying college campuses in the countries with great inequality and poverty.
I don't know when this will all come to a head, but in less there is some sort of miracle, come it will.
The Democratic Party is one of the two right wings of Gore Vidal''s "Party of Property".
American politics is a pantomime where these two right wings carry out their Punch and Judy show. The idea being that everything changes so that nothing ever changes (hat to Lampedusa).
The Democratic Party is designed to neutralize unrest and dampen progressive politics and if the present social and economic trends continue it will go the way of the Whigs.
When?
When was New Orleans supposed to flood?
When will the San Andreas fault shrug?
Things that are just waiting to happen.
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Wait a minute, there, cowboy.
David, I love ya, and I love a revolution, but...
...here's Obama's chance to give us all the green jobs he's been promising. Never mind the fact that I'm a secretary and have never drawn blood, there's a chance that in two years I can become a nurse. Or at the least, a sonogram technician.
Where in hell I'm going to get the money to pay for my new college tuition after having paid for my first, well...
If there's a revolution, I'll be the typesetter. How's that?
October 5, 2009 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't say anything more than if the present economic and social trends continue politics in the USA are going to change accordingly. If we begin to replicate a third world country in some things we are probably going to replicate them in others too.
When?
Like I say, when are they going to have "the big one" in California?
As to Obama's green jobs and the chances of real reform under the Democrats, read Frank Rich in the NYT.
If you are waiting for the Democrats to ever really change anything, my advice is, like they say in Spain, "it's better to wait sitting down".
October 5, 2009 6:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Frank Rich pretty much nails it. Publicly, Elizabeth Warren has been attempting to be optimistic; she also has said the the Consumer Protection Acency is being gutted more daily. Real estate brokerages exempted? I had read that non-bank credit companies are on track to also be exempted.
Two Corporate parties, on pro-choice, one anti-choice, though plenty of the Blue Dogs in both houses are anti-abortion any more.
I heard Chris Matthews as his panel a week or two ago: What if we just accept that 20% (I think it was) of Americans are always out of work? Would that be so terrible????
You speculate about some big event, but attrition is as likely, isn't it? Things get less-bad, things get worse, oh, what's a person to do? I cannot imagine right now any mass organizing that would be a total game-changer.
'Jump, you fuckers' was fun; now they are just partying. The public-private partnerships around banks' toxic debt can make you weep...taxpayers again assume all the risk.
October 5, 2009 8:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
And if you think that they won't change anything, David, what are the chances that they will have the power or commitment to change anything if you split them in half (or further)? Toothless argument, that.
October 5, 2009 8:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am talking about a "sea change" in US politics. When the Whigs disappeared there were Lincoln's Republicans. What I am sure of is that the Democrats are useless as an agent of change. I think that the fizzling Obama presidency with all the hope and enthusiasm that people have put into it will be the proof of that.
What will replace it?
Who knows?
Who predicted the Internet or microwave popcorn?
Things appear and everything is changed by them.
What we have know is some of the basic ingredients for something new.
October 5, 2009 9:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
When the Whigs disappeared there was Civil War.
It think the U.S. will instead go the way of the Soviet Union: collapse of its own weight, an ossified military state that could no longer afford its wars. So maybe we'll see some new republics in the North and Taliban incursions into the fanatic South.
October 5, 2009 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you David and even if there is no alternative that doesn't mean we are compelled to vote for what we have now - I mean unless we really have become China which wouldn't surprise me.
October 5, 2009 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think China is going to be a lot better off in the coming decades than we are.
October 5, 2009 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was afraid I was being too optimistic.
October 5, 2009 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think the conservative Republicans are going to disappear. If they were that out-of-step then the Republicans in California would have disappeared and been replaced by now. As it is they continue to run about 40% or so of the vote as I recall. The problem is that the conservative Republican base considers anyone not lockstep in line with their beliefs should be written out of the Party. That may build the ideology, but it does not build a national political party into a majority party.
The problem is that the conservatives represent the rural/agricultural/fundamentalist_religion culture, while the Democrats represent the big city industrial culture. (The Sociologist Max Weber called the those two cultures traditional and modern. I prefer rural and urban.) Neither of those cultures is going to go away, although the RAF_r culture is losing power as the nation becomes more urban, more populous and more diverse. The Republicans cannot adapt and maintain their identity.
The two party structures do not strictly represent the two cultures, but the Republicans have been so active in trying to force a single ideology on their leaders that they cannot get the breadth of leadership and voters needed to stay in power. The parties themselves are not inherently ideological. They are organizations within which politician can build alliances in order to win elections and gain political power.
October 5, 2009 8:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Weber's identification of the urban-rural split was never more dead-on than it is now. The problem is that the rural and suburban whites in the growing populist right are currently far more angry at urban blacks, immigrants and latte liberals, whom they believe are lazy and spoiled, and inclined to steal money from them through the tax system, than they are at the giants of the banking and corporate world who prey on ordinary Americans mercilessly, but whom the populist right admire as white, hard-working "regular" Americans.
If something can happen to catalyze an economic cross-cultural alliance, then the sea-change David is talking about might yet go left-populist. But if not, if the genuine Democratic left remains isolated from both Third Way liberals in their own party, and from right-wing populists in the other party, then the sea-change is going to go far right - and be very ugly and violent.
It was revealed today that WellPoint's CEO made nearly 10 million last year, and that WellPoint spent nearly the same on lobbying, at the same time her Maine subsidiary is asking for steep rate hikes in Maine to cover for $4.3 million is losses over the past five years. What the fuck?! What is it going to take to get those teabagging folks on the right to wake up and realize that the predators who are taking the biggest bites out of their life are not urban blacks and feckless, smartass liberal college kids?
October 6, 2009 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLAP6uW884
October 5, 2009 8:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
On a national level, the money and infrastructure that is required to compete is too vast. More likely, we simply become nuanced. We see this with the labelling of the Blue Dogs. It is isn't about whether you have a D next to your name. Which faction do hail your loyalty to.
In the end, with three or five parties, one would get the same if not more the gridlock we see around HCR. Things move forward only to the extent that backroom deals can be made. The extent that government becomes more progressive is the extent that progressive politicians can acutally be elected in places where Blue Dogs and Republicans now reside. That requires a fundamental shift in the collective political paradigm.
Most Americans still desire stability above radical change. The suppression of pockets of instability (revolution) will have the majority's support (esp given the corporate owenership of the MSM that will tilt such unrest in most unfavorable light.)
October 5, 2009 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Years ago Mother JOnes did a piece on Congress from the vantage point of "People Party" vs. "Money Party" based on their votes, and I think, contributions. I'll bet the scenery would look quite a bit worse by now.
October 5, 2009 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
More than "revolutionary" activity, I see a "movement", but I think it needs an emotional component, something similar to what MLK gave to the civil rights movement. It was Dr. King's pastoral authority that moved people, not the Black Panthers.
That is why I found Michael Moore's assertion that capitalism isn't "Christian" important; I see in it the germ of a north-American "liberation theology".
One of the wellsprings of religion is people's thirst for justice, the idea that justice must exist somewhere, sometime, for everyone great and small.
If you study the life and work of Ayn Rand, the goddess-guru of the neocons, you will notice that if she hated anything more than socialism it was Christianity.
Here is Rand on Christianity, taken from the Objectivist (Rand-thought) website:
And here is how a Christian website interprets Ayn Rand: Anyone with a feeling for the power of language can see what a mighty tool some sort of ecumenical liberation theology would be in facing down America's neofascist, neocon, libertarian right wing. I think Moore has hit on something important. We would be talking about a new civil rights movement for all America's citizens regardless of color, creed or previous condition of servitude.October 5, 2009 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
But many Christianists are now embracing Prosperity Doctrine, including, according to Jeff Sharlett, The Family, of which C Street is only a small part. If I understand correctly, Power and Money are their Divine Right, and they are attracting leaders all over the globe. It's pretty freaking cynical.
I do like the idea of an ecumenical movement of New Civil Rights, however.
October 5, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The United States, which Rand herself and her unlikely allies, the American Taliban, is not a Christian nation. When it becomes one, that is the end of this country.
October 5, 2009 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry. The missing words following "Taliban"" are "alike misunderstand."
October 5, 2009 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greetings diachronic!
I noticed this comment on my dashboard, and although I'm not about to dive into this thread, I still have to say that in and of itself...
...deserves to be enshrined in a Museum of Internet Exotica somewhere.
It's sui generis, whatever the heck it may mean.
October 5, 2009 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
hi Rutabaga. My propensity to produce texts pocked with lacunae is amusing to me too, although slightly annoying,
October 5, 2009 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the ayn rand folks object to vollunteering of any kind, then I'm curious as to who could have been paying them to come and demonstrate against vollunteering?
October 5, 2009 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are forbidden to tell any dedicated libertarians this unless you are yourself willing to quickly clean up the mess after their heads explode.
October 5, 2009 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
The question is what the end that is sought. What is it that will rally people together. Probably it will be a quilt of smaller movement on local and neighborhood levels, then local and neighborhoods connecting to one another, in collective action toward specific social/environmental ends, whether it is housing, job training, etc. The merging of democratic ideals with social justice definitely has the potential, and I see some of this afoot in my community, where lines between race, class etc.
The movement may be witnesss across the nation, but it will driven by grassroots. Maybe the internet will be the source of the next emotional content as people share with one another community projects and gatherings that demonstrate the ideals of the movement.
October 5, 2009 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stability?! I think we're having radical change without voting for it. What else do you call the decline and fall of the American middle class?
October 5, 2009 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course I am talking about the appearance of stability in their lives. The instability to which you refer may be happening, but as long as the streets are quiet, protestors are not in the street (making the commute twice as long), services do experience disruption from worker strikes, etc. than most people are willing to wait for something to happen then make it happen by creating more instability.
October 5, 2009 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
See? I did kind of wait for a response, I guess although I was probably being rhetorical at the time.
Parties are coalitions. That is all they are. The enemy of my enemy becomes my friend, at least on certain issues. I mean Sam Erwin was kind of a racist pig actually. FDR used the racist populists to get done what he needed to get done while Eleanor tore her hair out. But, kind of back stage, FDR signed executive orders that contractors cannot discriminate in employment.
I do believe that any real chance of changing the game was lost last September and again in January of this year. I mean the goddamn system was failing; going up in smoke.
Those bastards could have been destroyed in one fell swoop. Instead the taxpayers end up being the ultimate insurers of the filth being spewed out by the capitalist dogs.
I don't know either.
THE END
October 5, 2009 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the next step is Anarchy?
Was the Civil War Fratricide or genocide?
I find no basis for hope anymore, to believe we'll have a peaceful transition, as coalitions form.
The discontent of the people is becoming too great. The problems we face to overwhelming.
The corruption to deeply entrenched, the bitterness of the oppressed too great.
Hope in a promised leader? No More heros, No more white horses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHXA4_O-MXM&feature=PlayList&p=E1C9076A693C1202&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=50
Out of the ruins, out of the wreckage
Tired of the politician’s lies and a justice system filled with hypocrisy.
"I'm Mad as Hell and I am not, going to take it anymore" was the chant, now I think the bullets are about to fly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q
I think we're seeing the effects of human ruler-ship incapable of satisfying it's purpose, Unable to bring about the promises hoped for.
"(Matthew 6:10) . . .Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. . ."
(Daniel 2:44) 44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite. . .
Because WE THE PEOPLE (mankind) have failed; having tried all forms of governance we have failed.
October 5, 2009 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
DAMN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k34COolbdmY
Resistance: for chrissakes blog this!!! (blesses himself kind of)
THIS IS GREAT STUFF.
You know I am no biblical expert. Hell, get rid of the biblical.
THIS IS GREAT STUFF.
Wait until David's blog fades under our twenty four rule.
BLOG IT I SAY. HA
October 6, 2009 12:54 AM | Reply | Permalink