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Obama's Presidency: Worst Day Ever


Obama's speech today was defensive and whiny.  He has let the right crawl inside his head and set up camp there.  And he has now taken one of the least popular men in America, Dick Cheney, and breathed new life into him and his party.  Nice move!

Obama's policies on the "war on terror"are now barely discernible now from those of George Bush.  Hint to Barack: if you fully endorse the Bush narrative, you are going to leave yourself wide open to those who criticize you for changing Bush policies.

It's 2002 all over again.  Obama is moving us backward.

And no matter what he does to alienate and offend the left, Obama still seems to wake up every day and ask himself, "What can I do to get more Republicans to like me?"  This guy needs to be sent some sort of firm message from his left flank, quickly.

Fortunately, progress on the manifesto for the new Global Internationalist Party continues apace.  More to come.  But what practical steps can be taken to increase the left's leverage?   I'm sick of the uninspiring, kneejerk centrism coming out of Washington.

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Yes, but praise the Lord for Rachel Maddow. There is still one articulate voice of reason left on American TV. Who knew there was anyone left who could tell the difference between indefinite preventive detention and the rule of law.

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Agreed. It's exactly what attracted me to her show in the first place--she's flabbergasted at the things that everyone should be flabbergasted at. It's so relieving to hear someone with such a public voice address these things.

I can't believe it! We're detaining these people indefinitely!!! This is surreal.

Who are we, the dungeon masters? Sorry, what's wrong is wrong.

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You speak the truth. I expected Centrism- but not abject complicity. This was not a forceful proclamation of our ideals that I expected. Nor do I really see much positive in the way of progressive legislation.

Public plan will probably be traded for universal coverage with a mandate. No real progress on Gitmo, Escalation of Afghanistan into Pakistan, The new CAFE Substandard. No progress on Cap and Trade.

And of course the record setting "no billionaire left behind" TARP/TALF/PPP giveaway continues unabated while 7 million are on the UI rolls.

On the plus side- a meaningless meager middle class tax break, the Alternative Minimum Tax charade was extended yet again and called stimulus, and a few roads will be built! Yea!

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Echo echo

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Dork dork! Is that you?

Oh happy day!

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"It's 2002 all over again."

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the same craven, calculating DC Democratic cowardice overriding all common sense and decency. Remember how in the campaign when people brought up the quote from Obama saying he didn't know how he would have voted on the Iraq War Resolution? I think we know now. Just like Hillary and all the rest, he would have voted yes in order to appease the anger and wrath of the Republicans. And what did the Democrats get for that? Renewed and doubled up attacks and wrath from the Republicans. They will never, ever learn.

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BS. Obama was being supportive of the war-voting candidate, John Kerrey.

You're a very black and white sort, Oleeb. It makes you more of an ideologue and far less willing to see any other viewpoint.

It is truly your loss.

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Iraq was also black and white. We either caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people or we did not. Well, we did.

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I do not disagree with you. This nation took on that responsibility with the 2004 election. Congress took it on in the fall of 2002 when they deliberately kicked the can to the executive branch.

Where I disagree with you on this, bluebell, is that ANYONE can simply pull out of Iraq without care and attention. That's where I think you go all black and white and fail to see any shades of gray.

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So which is it mister shades of gray? Was he pro war or antiwar? I'll be ya got really angry when Bill Clinton pointed out Obama's duplicity on this issue during the campaign too. If I am guilty of seeing only in black and white, well, I think I'm a bit better off than you who only see things through rose colored glasses.

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They are still buzzing today in the national media about the "Thrilla on the Hilla" - the Obama-Cheney tussle yesterday.

Somehow, a thoroughly discredited crook like Cheney, who should be on ice in some political and legal Siberia, has now elevated himself to the same stature as the President of the United States. And the Obama administration actually sought out this fight, intentionally scheduling Obama's speech to pair up against Cheney.

What a blunder.

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The admin (including the President), the Republicans, and the corporate media see this as a partisan fight which it is not. They view everything, no matter how grave or serious as political. This myopic view of government and its responsibilities is extraordinarily dangerous. There are some matters that are simply matters of right and wrong, legal or illegal and we are on that territory now. But our ruling classes are so corrupt and rotten they are no longer capable of discerning this important distinction.

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BS. Cheney was given media attention and came across as an old crank with bad ideas and poor judgment. Obama came across as the exact opposite. Too bad you can't recognize what happened.

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And Congress, too! Don't forget them. Even Dianne Feinstein, who spoke out against all the cowardly naysayers, ultimately voted against getting the detainees out of Guantanamo!!!

What in the sam hell is going on? I'm going crazy here.

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Very poor Democratic Senator leadership. It's been obvious for years.

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First, I want to say that I wish Obama would ask Holder to assign a special prosecutor to investigate and punish the guilty. Just do it and let the chips fall where they may, already. Having said that, here is my analysis and conclusions for why Obama is moving as he is. It is not intended as defense, nor condemnation of Obama's decisions, only my observations about what I see as his motivations.

Okay, I may be diving in to the pool without my trunks on, but here goes:

Obama is, IMO, a pragmatist's pragmatist. He is a highly goal oriented personality who will make whatever sacrifices he deems both necessary and RATIONAL to achieve his top goals. He has been very clear and consistent about what are his top goals ever since the primaries; Energy independence, Health-Care reform, Education improvement, and execution of a Brent Scowcroft realism school type of foreign policy.

Obama does hold very certain and inviolable principles, IMO - those being the achievement of his clear and oft stated top goals. He is an ends/outcome oriented individual, as opposed to an means/process oriented one. Obama's principles are embodied in his goals, and include the achievement of those goals. He would only be lacking in principle if he changed or otherwise gave up on achieving his goals, and in priority order.

Obama is not a political "triangulator" moving with the political winds, as some have suggested. He is a pragmatic achiever who makes decisions and gets shit accomplished that would seem impossible to most of us, such as winning the Presidency despite being a black guy with a Muslim sounding name.

Many are judging Obama's political character from within their own 'non-pragmatic achiever' value context, and have thereby found his character lacking in principles. However, if our principles help to define what is most important to us. What we are willing sacrifice and what we are not, and set the relative priority of those important things, then Obama's pragmatic achievement behavior is based on solid principles. You or I may not agree with those principles, but they are certainly there, are clearly articulated, and are easy to track. To understand what Obama is doing, IMHO, requires one to stand in his value context, of a pragmatic achiever.

To be very clear, I'm not saying that I believe Obama would do anything to achieve his top goals. That would define him as an extremist. I think that pragmatic achievers differ from extremists in that extremists take a hard-irrational approach to getting what they want, while pragmatic achievers take a soft-rational approach. Both do share being ends/outcome focused. In addition, I wouldn't assume that Obama won't go after the many goals we may wish were a higher priority, and that he also has stated he values once he's secured those top goals. I suspect that much cognitive dissonance comes about when Obama says he values the rule-of-law, transparency, and such but then seems not to make decisions which mirror those values. I believe that those values just occupy a lower rung of Obama's goal priority ladder. Hard-nosed prioritization is another defining characteristic of the pragmatic achievers I've known.

President Obama will do whatever is rational (yes, to him) to achieve his top goals. Which is why, for example, he is eager to adopt the ideas of conservatives - as long as THEIR ideas lead to realizing HIS goals. As long as all roads lead to Rome it doesn't much matter which road is taken. He has been completely open in saying what those TOP goals are, and has been consistant and ficused in the pursuit of them.

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Don't tell us that. Tell these folks.

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"Obama says he values the rule-of-law, transparency, and such but then seems not to make decisions which mirror those values."

IMO, this sentence shows part of the problem we're having. I doubt that we agree on "rule of law" or "transparency". "Rule of law" is not a finite thing; it changes; it varies due to case law and interpretation. The same thing applies to "transparency", particularly when it could affect security.

You have assumed that we share the same definitions of at least these two terms. I would wager that our definitions vary.

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"Obama says he values the rule-of-law, transparency, and such but then seems not to make decisions which mirror those values."

IMO, this sentence shows part of the problem we're having. I doubt that we agree on "rule of law" or "transparency". "Rule of law" is not a finite thing; it changes; it varies due to case law and interpretation. The same thing applies to "transparency", particularly when it could affect security.

You have assumed that we share the same definitions of at least these two terms. I would wager that our definitions vary.

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I'm make no claims nor assumptions on the meaning of those terms. My point was simply to observe that many on the left obviously feel some degree of cognitive dissonance regarding what Obama says he values and what they perceive his actual decisions indicate.

What I claim is that such cognitive dissonance is greatly due to a misperception of Obama's values. I claim that Obama does value the-rule-of-law and transparency, just as he says he does, but that those values are not at the very top of his to-do list. People who are means/process oriented wrongly see people who are ends/outcome oriented, such as Obama, as lacking principle.

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I made no claims nor assumptions on the meaning of those terms. My point was simply to observe that many on the left obviously feel some degree of cognitive dissonance regarding what Obama says he values and what they perceive his actual decisions indicate.

What I claim is that such cognitive dissonance is greatly due to a misperception of Obama's values. I claim that Obama does value the-rule-of-law and transparency, just as he says he does, but that those values are not at the very top of his to-do list. People who are means/process oriented wrongly see people who are ends/outcome oriented, such as Obama, as lacking principle.

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First, you don't speak for the left. If the left were to send a message, the message would likely be "we don't agree with each other".

But your hectoring, panicky response misses the point that we need explanations of policies, and somebody has to rebut the rightwing propaganda.

Lefty bloggers and interest groups spend all of their time handwringing about whether Obama is letting them down. After the 1000th time of hearing how "disappointed" and "just like Bush", many of us wonder, why are you still here?

More importantly, behind the scenes pressure on pols only goes so far. Dick Cheney and the GOP have been spinning their propaganda for weeks, mostly unopposed, in the public sphere. Meanwhile groups like HRW which should have been excoriating Cheney yesterday on the TV, are talking to TPM about their "disappointment".

The left risks losing the public debate.

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First, you don't speak for the left.

True. I only speak for some people. If you are not one of them, and are not interested in trying to exert the kind of pressure I am talking about, then the question was not addressed to you.

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Your "pressure" apparently consists of being a crank who joins the rest of the cranks in getting their general ideas and thoughts picked up by what is called "the media" these days. The media trolls the blogs and picks up this nastiness to use in their tabloid headlines and stories.

Unlike what you theorize with your activism, you're actually driving the nastiness. The end result is to increase cynicism and drive folks out of the political arena and from voting.

Want to hazard a guess as to whether that helps the GOP of the Democratic Party? It helps the Cheney/Bush supporters.

And that's the reason I'm losing respect for a few of you so-called "activists". You aid and abet the far right.

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No, you are just 100% intimidated by the right. You're scared that if we speak up they might hurt us all.

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BS. I've been chased down the street by far right supporters, bluebell. I went right back and knocked on doors. So don't give me your crap, bluebell.

The best some of you can do is get all cranky on a blog and then pretend that's activism. It isn't.

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Maybe it isn't activism, but to say it's aiding and abetting the far right--didn't Republicans start using a similar phrase about dissenters in the years after 9/11?

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"Aiding and abetting the far right" is having the nerve to oppose them. If you oppose them, you help them because if you oppose them they will say bad things about you and we all know that standing for anything left of wing-nut right is treason and we believe it ourselves we really do so we don't want to actually be caught out loud saying anything different from Rush and crew because we know they will win anyway because we don't have anything important enough to believe in or talk about unless we hear it first from them and then we know it is an OK thing to think or say and isn't imprisonment without trial just so way cool 21st century modern, I wonder why no one ever thought of such a clever thing before?...

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Well, you still have to debate with me, because me and others aren't going away, and don't concede liberalism to you. The left has always been more diverse and pluralistic anyway. We don't toe the line, and we don't go lock step. We debate, I think it's a good thing.

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So then debate. But are you saying that people who think the way I do shouldn't be looking for ways to up the pressure on Obama, or only that this is something that you and many others don't want to participate in?

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I'd be interested in reading your defense of the way the detainee transfer issue has played out in the last week. Although I'm sure that somebody out there fits your characterizations, I think I'm justified in being thoroughly disappointed in the way that the congressional Democrats allowed the Republicans to control the debate about "releasing" (LOL!) the untried prisoners at Guantanamo. And now Obama is defending indefinite detention.

You wrote, After the 1000th time of hearing how "disappointed" and "just like Bush", many of us wonder, why are you still here?

What do you think "here" is for? I don't follow your meaning.

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"I think I'm justified in being thoroughly disappointed in the way that the congressional Democrats allowed the Republicans to control the debate about "releasing" (LOL!) the untried prisoners at Guantanamo."


1) If you are not in fact a "supporter", you can't pretend to be disappointed. So cut it out. When have you actually "supported"?? Right now, when Cheney is on the attack would be a good time.

2) Democrats in congress were not the only ones who allowed the GOP to control the debate. Fratricidal Obama-bashers on the left have as well. They've spent the last three weeks attacking Harman, Pelosi and Obama. Cheeny and his thugs have gotten off scottfree.


"And now Obama is defending indefinite detention."

That's the sort of strawman dishonesty I am denouncing here. You are lying and msirepresenting. Obama is carefully laying out his views, and you are merely demagoguing and fearmongering. Sort of the mirror image of the "obama is making us less safe" fearmongering from the right. This is a complex legal and nat. secuirty MESS. Quit demagoguing it.

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Sorry, "prolonged detention" was the phrase he used.

I'm a little surprised that you're accusing me of demagoguery. I also don't understand why you keep suggesting that I'm a "supporter," using quotes. Are you referring to some claim I made? And what am I supposed to be supporting? Again, I do not follow your argument.

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BTW, AnswerFrog, there's no reason to get ugly about this. I don't mind disagreeing with you, but I don't appreciate being a demogogue or fearmongerer when I'm not.

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I'm not sure where you consider "here", but what gives you the right to assume that we should be anywhere else but here! I swear some of you are so totally intimidated by the right that I wonder if you still even get the point of living in a democracy. We have the right to be "here". We all do. We have the right to speak. You don't have to listen. You don't have to agree. But we don't have to shut up and salute.

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IMO, a clique formed here at TPM that has aided and abetted in trashing Obama and Pelosi. Over and over again. When a commenter compared any action to Bush-like, there was simply zero counters to those statements. None. Nada.

It's close-minded. It's black and white thinking. It's taking the title "liberal" and assuming only those thinking the exact same way "earned" the word.

And it helps the far right nuts who have taken our country into the sewer.

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Well, IMO, you'd probably be oversimplifying things dangerously. I've already been accused once today of being part of an anti-Pelosi (whom I defended this very week), anti-Obama (whose sticker is on my car) cabal. I laughed at first, but I see things are getting a little crazy.

There are a few here who like to insult Obama with vitriol and namecalling. It's a shame, but then again, it takes all kinds, I guess.

There are many more of us who, to varying degrees, have taken issue with this or that choice Obama made. I, for example, was really shattered by his decision on FISA, and yesterday's remarks about "prolonged detention" made me wonder what he's up to (because unlike Bush, when Obama says something like this, it isn't a gaffe--he means it). But I'm not "out to get" Obama by any means; I'll just write a letter to the White House expressing my disappointment and hope for the future.

And I'll commiserate about it here.

But I don't get why that's a problem. I get that it is--and that at least one poster seemed to take it directly to heart (last night, I think?)

But, hey, we're here to discuss politics, not to singlehandedly win some "public debate."

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Obama's "breathed new life" into the GOP and Dick Cheney....Obama is now "barely discrernible" from Bush?

Yes, let's have a reasonable debate. Where can I find one?

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"Discernible". My apololgies.


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Please get the statements accurate. I did not say Obama is barely discernible from Bush. I said his policies on the "war on terror" were now barely discernible from Bush. Obama laid out a vision yesterday of the war on terror which seems to give the war on terror and anti-terror fear the same pride of place and thematic importance in the list of US foreign policy priorities that it had under Bush.

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"I said his policies on the "war on terror" were now barely discernible from Bush"

Like his closing of Gitmo vs. Bush's creation of Gitmo??

Like his opposition to torture, vs. Bush's enactment of torture??

Sorry, I'm not seeing anything barely discernable. What I am seeing is a lot of strawmen being bandied about.

The speech yesterday was about how we shouldn't and needn't sacrifice our values in our fight against Al Qaeda. That's entirely different than what Bush and Cheney propose.

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You said:

"Obama's policies on the "war on terror"are now barely discernible now from those of George Bush. "

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Yes, but I didn't say "Obama is barely discernible from Bush", which is the statement Dorn76 attributed to me.

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There is not point to closing Gitmo if it means that the detainees lose their human rights because our government bungled the investigation and engaged in torture. It is not their fault that we screwed the pooch on justice, and indefinite detainment should never be a trump card played when you fuck somebody over, even KSM.

I'm sorry. But Obama pressed my Kafka button. Instead of clearly delineating a liberal alternative to fear, he offered a kindler gentler fear.

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Me too. All those men, huddled in claustrophobic conditions, without any say about their own lives, all because our government decided they weren't actually prisoners of war.

"Prolonged detention" isn't a compromise. It's literally more of the same.

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oh please!

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"Obama laid out a vision yesterday of the war on terror which seems to give the war on terror and anti-terror fear the same pride of place and thematic importance in the list of US foreign policy priorities that it had under Bush."

This speech was to allay fears about his anti-terror policies, which were being routinely criticized by the establishment as appeasement of people who want to kill us in our beds, or some such nonsense. He gave the speech at the National Archives to advance the theme that we would continue to fight terror, but also adhere to our constitutional principles and the rule of law (I'm nor arguing here that preventive detention, etc. actually do adhere to those principles, only that this was a central point of his speech).

I think your totally missing the intended political effect of the speech. And I think your conclusion that this terror policies are "now barely discernible from Bush" is a ridiculous oversimplification of his remarks.

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I'm not sure what the entire intended effect of the speech was, brewmn61. But it used the words "terror" or "terrorist" or "terrorism" twenty-eight times. So I think part of the intended effect was to resurrect the Bush tactic of defusing criticism from the left by scaring the crap out of people.

I'm sorry, but all this brooding, melodramatic talk about how "this generation faces a great test in the specter of terrorism" is pure Bush. Yes, there is an important difference between Obama and Bush: Bush preached Islamophobic hysteria with torture; Obama now preaches a more liberal form of Islamophobic hysteria in which we "adhere to our principles."

The Republicans have only one winning card to play in this game - fear - and Obama just gave them the opportunity to play it. He let Cheney and friends up off the mat, where they appeared down for the count.

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Dear Dan K,
Americans aren't cowering in fear. Where are you getting this nonsense?

Okay, perhaps the Senators are hiding under their desks after their yellow-streak Gitmo vote. The rest of us are living our lives with courage.

That's what Obama is talking about. But I don't expect you to understand that.

Sincerely,
A Midwest Activist

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I didn't say Americans are cowering fear. I said that Obama's speech yesterday sought to use fear of terrorism to deflect criticism.

As I have mentioned several times, Dick Cheney has been mired in very low popularity numbers. I don't know why on earth an extremely popular president like Obama would now decide he has to get down in the dismal pit and start mixing it up with the likes of Dick Cheney, or start playing Cheney's game by evoking his own nightmare threats of terrorism.

Since the thing that seems to have provoked this recent mess is the Senate's refusal to fund the Gitmo closing, based apparently on public reluctance to absorb the Gitmo prisoners in the US, why would Obama go out and give a speech using "terror" 28 times, something that is much more likely to raise the fear of terrorists than to dampen it?

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I am trying hard to grasp your point, Dan K. Terrorism, IMO, is a real problem in today's world. Apparently you disagree.

And it calls for hard decisions. What do we do with folks taken in Iraq and in Afghanistan (where I think we are at war)? Nothing? Kill them in the field so we don't have the problem of Gitmo? Treat them as a different class of prisoner of war? Are any of these folks victims of "rendition"? What do we do with these? Do we return any to repressive countries where they have zero rights?

All of these questions need answers different from those supplied by Bush. Trashing Obama doesn't answer these questions or solve the issues. What are your answers to these questions, Dan K?

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I have no answers to the hard questions. But I know it is a very bad idea to get into a public "mano-a-mano" debate with the criminal cretin Dick Cheney over these hard questions. And I know it is a very, very bad idea to stoke public fears of terrorism and breathe new life into the old "war on terror".

If Obama seriously wants to pursue new answers to the hard questions, and sustain public support for those answers, the he needs to end the Bush era. He can't do that by dredging up all the painful and angry war on terror debates that the Bush administration fed on for seven years.

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This mano a diablo was created by the media. It is all media hype because they miss the campaign.

The WH says the speech was scheduled on that day because that's when he had the time to do it. Whether that's true or not is of no concern to me, but this whole torture debate was getting out of hand. The Dems/Libs have allowed the Right to frame the debate - which is pretty pathetic since this is something that they've been shouting about for years - Those on the Right are giggling like idiots about torture - Dick Cheney is suddenly Chatty Kathy - the MSM is as usual useless - We have bloggers and columnists interpreting, twisting and guessing about Obama's policies - the Left is in an uproar, turning against each other, turning against the one person who can make their policy wishes come true (You need him as much you say he needs you).

And while everyone is shouting and confusing the rest of America, Obama, as he always does, steps in and gives one of his "Why Am I Always The Only Adult In The Room?" or a "Chill The Fuck Out, I Got This" speeches. This speech was so that people will have on record where he stands, what he's doing, and where he's going.

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Dan K, I don't think we get to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that terrorism was simply a nightmarish story told to scare our pants off.

I fault Bush and his crowd of radical nuts for going into Iraq instead of dealing with the hard slog in Afghanistan. Read Fiasco for a clearer picture of how the preparations for Iraq undercut the Afghanistan effort.

And we simply cannot turn our back on the danger represented by the Taliban, al Queda, and the extremists on the Afghan/Paki border. Remember, these folks aren't that far away from the nuclear weapons the Paki government has.

You and others might wish to turn back the clock but that's not the way things work. We are where we are. That's our starting point.

And we have to have the debate on the hard questions. Wishing the questions away won't work.

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Remember, these folks aren't that far away from the nuclear weapons the Paki government has.

Most of those guys can't even find the US on a map.

There are fanatics and crazies everywhere. These folks were never of any concern to the United States until we embarked on a series of meddlesome Middle East policies and turned ourselves into their "far enemy". Let's get out of there and stop doing that.

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OK, here's a real point of contention.

Yes, you may give more credence to Cheney by debating him.

But you also risk conceding the entire discussion if you ignore him. The GOP spin their memes and lies, and hey go unanswered. Won't much of he public assume they must be right?? "Hey, it was a ticking time bomb, right (no it wasn't)". or "Either we get dirty to fight the terrorists, or we lose, right? (wrong again)

The Dems risk looking weak and bolstering GOP cred on nat. security. But they also risk letting the GOP dominate the debate.

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The lies haven't gone unanswered. The many opponents of Cheneyism have been out there for weeks taking care of the desperate Dick Cheney, and roughing him up. Cheney has been ridiculed and refuted, and his popularity numbers show this. He is also a fascistic criminal who is escaping prosecution only by the good graces of Obama.

Obama's intervention is not needed, and he shouldn't be dignifying the likes of criminals like Dick Cheney by elevating the latter to the status of a legitimately equal debating partner with the president. Obama shouldn't have scheduled a speech to coincide with Cheney's speech in a way which framed just such a debate. This country should be spitting Cheney out, and Obama needs to assist that process by treating Cheney as a political leper and persona non grata, not as a legitimate voice that deserves an answer.

And if Obama is going to mix it up in this debate, then he needs to do a better job of articulating a position that doesn't fall into the trap of Cheneyite fear-mongering. The more credence Obama gives to the Bush-Cheney narrative of the overriding importance and generational challenge of the war on terror, the more difficult he will make it to change the Bush-Cheney policies that flow from this narrative. Obama effectively attempted yesterday to deflect criticism from the left by emphasizing how horribly scary all these terrorists are. And that tactic plays into Cheney's hands.

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"by emphasizing how horribly scary all these terrorists are"

I missed that part.

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He used "terror" 28 times in the speech!

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What of it. It's HOW a term is used, not THAT it is used.

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I would not be so fast to judge until what is classified to protect Valerie Plame's colleagues, is known. There are arguments all over the place, but without evidence that is otherwise classified, we cannot see the whole picture Obama sees.

Now that fact can either be a pall of smoke or a light of wisdom.

Since we don't know which it is as to the classified information, we are left with going with what we know and factoring in our blind spots. Factoring in blind spots is what fashions the centrist, however, the constituents must have patience to see where this goes. Whether to have that patience goes to the constituents' trust in the candidate they put in the Chief's hat.

We aren't a patient people, and considering the news cycles and mass ADHD they are marketed for, the fear is that everyone will forget the issue until it is an isolated, in-actionable tidbit of history that will sell future movie scripts.

In foreign policy there is deception as tactic. When Americans view American foreign policy from the standpoint of the foreign citizen affected by it, there is an element of imagination about how the foreign citizen must feel about it. This is not always accurate.

When in Afghanistan it looked like order had finally come, there were quite a few Western reports of 'normalcy' breaking out. This was a news cycle. In it, common Afghans celebrated their new freedoms absent the Taliban. Now, the fear of the Taliban has returned. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" seems to be a motto of self-preservation in most countries of the world. (Surely Arlen Specter saw it that way, didn't he?)

Which, given human fickleness, fear, distrust and variability, is the best executive policy? And, what may a president do to check the Senate?

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Watch out Mike . . .

Present a logical position in this thread, as you have, and you'll get yourself no response, if you haven't already noticed. Too damn logical and on point.

Appears to me that this thread turned into one of those... I'm right... No, I'm right. Oh no no no, I'm right . . .

Portions of this thread are reminiscent of a bunch of sophomoric fraternity boys seeing who can piss up the wall higher than the next.

Have a great Memorial Day weekend.

I'll be sailing.

~OGD~

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What I don't think I understand yet is whether Obama wants to close Gitmo because he wants to bring an end to what Gitmo does, or whether he just wants to move what Gitmo does somewhere else and close Gitmo only as a PR stunt, because Gitmo has acquired a bad reputation.

Bob Gates said we are closing Gitmo because it is "tainted". So is that all?

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Good question. If the old policy continues after the old detention center closes, will we eventually have to close the next prison where we abuse prisoners of war, too?

I hope this isn't political theater, but why hold my breath?

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Perhaps you should change the title of this post to:

" Obama's Presidency; Worst Day Thus Far".

The way things are proceeding, I fully expect the Cairo speech to surpass yesterday's example in terms of "worsts".

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"the manifesto for the new Global Internationalist Party"

Got a draft? and is that the name you are going with? Why not something a little less 19th century. Maybe Earth United?

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Dan K

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