« Obama 50% -- Bush 57% Aug 2001 After Giving Tax Cuts | coonsey's Blog | What Other Laws Should We Ignore as reasons to --"Save Lives" »
TORTURE was ILLEGAL but Let's IGNORE THAT!
TORTURE was ILLEGAL but Let's IGNORE THAT!
Senator John McCain responded to former vice president Cheney's comments about the AG Holder's investigation of torture by CIA:
These people make no sense what so ever with their logic. War crimes were committed but for the sake of possibly upsetting somebody or hurting their feelings, we should just ignore the crimes and 'move on'.
A gang of crooks just stole drugs for their own pleasure or to sell for profit themselves, from a famous drug cartel. Problem is, this gang of crooks were all police officers working for the city. The attorney general said after careful consideration, "We need these policemen on the job and alert -- so we aren't going to punish them for their crimes, we should just move on."
This is crazy!!!!
Advertisement
It is crazy. Actually, it's worse than crazy. It's dangerous crazy. Cheney slept through 9/11 and retaliated with blind arrogance by going on an eight year war crimes spree to fill the gaping hole that was his incompetence.
He belongs in leg irons and everyone in the world knows this.
August 30, 2009 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just caught McCain's statement. Awed and astounded me. He managed to diss my President.
But this was a real slam against cheney.
I think we shall see more of this.
These books coming out by w and cheney and rummy.
I cannot wait.
August 30, 2009 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are absolutely correct here Coonsey!
But please don't forget that Obama's clear position is, in effect, no different from Cheney's and Holder's investigation is intended to look only at the sacrificial lambs at the bottom rungs of the conspiracy to commit torture and other war crimes. Only if we are lucky, and very very luck I might add, is there any glimmer of a hope that the actual people responsible for the torture will be investigated in any way. The very idea of condoning what any conscious citizen knows is illegal (torture) based upon the "I was only following orders" defense is unbelievably offensive to the idea of this being a nation under the rule of law.
August 30, 2009 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I happen to believe (hope) the reason Obama has come out against digging into the past and is allowing Holder to do the digging -- is for the reasons Cheney mentions -- Cheney is accusing the white house of playing politics with CIA and American's lives.
Obama can claim with proof (his announcement(s) before Holder made his decisions) that he is not the one pushing this.
August 31, 2009 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hope you're right but I see no reason by way of evidence to believe that is the case. Usually things are what they appear to be. In this case, I think it's wishful thinking to believe Obama or Holder have an unseen plan to actually enforce the law. I think Obama means what he says and I think Holder means to make sure that his faux investigation, instead of opening up the can of worms that badly needs opening, will instead truncate any further investigation and perhaps end any possibility of enforcing our laws with respect to those who committed war crimes in the recent past, thus knowingly broke our laws and treaty obligations and should be answering at the bar of justice for those crimes.
August 31, 2009 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe if we had a few more government workers we could afford to spend their time investigating the broad daylight crimes of the Bush administration, starting with torture, but going beyond that. Unfortunately, we seem to have only Obama and Holder, and they have other things to do. Or, maybe it just looks like that.
I think it would be utterly ridiculous for our chief executive to tell us that a department of justice, with the tens of thousands of employees working there, just can't find a few man weeks to spare investigating blatantly obvious war crimes. And, the war crimes of significance were committed not by the CIA agents, or even the Blackwater thugs, who truly were just following orders. The significant crimes were committed by those who gave the orders, the false justifications, the political cover, etc. that made it possible for the psychopaths who committed the actual torture to do so.
So, I'm continuing to assume I am misunderstanding Obama and Holder.
August 31, 2009 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the only reason that congress hasn't done much about Bush / Cheney and all the stuff that has gone on is congress realizes the extent to which there were violations of our laws and to pursue those violations would be traumatic well beyond Nixon or any other time in our history. We are in a real catch 22 situation. Some terrible things occurred but the possible consequences under law for those things aren't something congress has the stomach to tackle. I don't blame them but at the same time lots of people have died under a false circumstance. What a dilemma.
August 31, 2009 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dillemma? There's no dillemma here anymore than when someone commits a murder under less prominent circumstances. The law is not an optional thing. If it is, then we are not a nation of laws at all. Many of our leaders are culpable in the commission of these crimes and the dillemma, such as it is, is not about the damage it woudl cause the country but, IMHO, the damage it would cause them personally and the damage it would cause to the illusion that our country is not an oligarchy controlled by corporate interests and amoral politicians and their henchmen who do their bidding.
August 31, 2009 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe dilemma is not the right word. You know what I mean. To prosecute the things that in all likelihood have occurred would be awfully bad. I would really like to see our laws honored like they should be but it would throw the nation into a turmoil. I don't know what might happen if something like that went forward. I just know it'd be an awful mess. As you say though the law is not an optional thing. You could never tell it though because it has been treated that way for a long time already. Because of the political circumstances at any given time congress does what is convenient politically with little regard for much else.
August 31, 2009 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our first priority is to our country, the Constitution and it's people. There is no DILEMMA in my view when it comes to what our leaders allowed to happened during war time.
I would feel that way toward another nation if they did these things to our soldiers, so I feel OBLIGATED to feel the same about my own government's actions.
August 31, 2009 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink