Christianity as a Lifestyle Choice
The truth is that being gay or lesbian is not likely a lifestyle choice. The facts would seem to suggest that it is the way you were when you born - in pretty much the exact same way that you are born black, white, whatever, etc. - and environment may only be a factor in how it can effect the genetic code that people are born with. And not just no, but HELL NO! I am not going down that Nazi like road of eugenics to "eliminate or treat" what some of you crazies want to call a disease... That is just sick.For over seven minutes last night, Jon Stewart grilled former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee on his opposition to gay marriage. Huckabee is touring the country to promote his new book, "Do The Right Thing." When Stewart compared gay marriage bans to interracial marriage bans, Huckabee restated his view that homosexuality is simply a behavior choice:
Huckabee tried to insist that "60 percent of the American population" opposes gay marriage. Stewart interrupted him, calling it a "travesty" that gay Americans have to plead for their civil rights... (READ ON)STEWART: Segregation used to be the law until the courts intervened.
HUCK: There's a big difference between a person being black and a person practicing a lifestyle and engaging in a marital relationship.
STEWART: Okay, actually this is helpful because it gets to the crux of it. ... And I'll tell you this: Religion is far more of a choice than homosexuality. And the protections that we have for religion -- we protect religion. And talk about a lifestyle choice -- that is absolutely a choice. Gay people don't choose to be gay. At what age did you choose to not be gay?
And even if it were a choice?
Who cares... Exercising free will, to make your own choice, is as much a right as it is a personal responsibility. Even according to the Bible, Free Will is a Divine Institution:
1.Free will, 2.Marriage, 3.Family, 4.Government etc.
Yeah... You hear a lot from the religious wing nuts about the "Divine Institution of Marriage" - the second divine institution...
But they conveniently choose to skip the First Divine Institution in their bankrupt arguments.
Free Will - The one God supposedly gave everyone to choose their own destiny.
Religion is quite simply and for certain nothing more than a lifestyle choice...
You aren't born that way. Even if you are a believer - God gave you the free will to choose to believe. In fact some of these religions make a big deal out of converting people into believers. Because. People. Were. Not. Born. That. Way.
They made a choice.
People choose their religions all the time. Often they change their choice of religion on a whim.
Often that religion of choice has clearly bigoted views that they would like to force upon the rest of the world. Anti-Marriage Equality views would be included there. It is no different than other bigoted religious views that have been argued for in the past:
Christians and their ever changing views on traditional marriage...The term "miscegenation" has been used since the nineteenth century to refer to interracial marriage and interracial sex, and more generally to the global process of racial admixture that has taken place since the Age of Discoveries, particularly through the European colonization of the Americas and the Atlantic slave trade. Historically the term has been used in the context of laws banning interracial marriage and sex, so-called anti-miscegenation laws. It is therefore a loaded word and is considered offensive by many.
Today, the word miscegenation is avoided by many scholars, because the term suggests a distinct biological phenomenon, rather than a categorization imposed on certain relationships. The word is considered offensive by many and other terms such as "interracial," "interethnic" or "cross-cultural" are more common in contemporary usage. However, the term is still used by scholars when referring to past practices concerning multiraciality, such as anti-miscegenation laws that banned interracial marriages.
I am pretty sure most of them have given up the bigoted views against interracial marriages.
Huckabee talks about "5000 years of traditional marriage" based on his own personal lifestyle choice's rulebook - the Bible - but will, no doubt, refuse to accept what that loaded definition actually includes if implemented as law:
A. Marriage in the United States shall consist of a union between one man and one or more women. (Gen 29:17-28; II Sam 3:2-5)
B. Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take concubines in
addition to his wife or wives. (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21)C. A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a
virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deut 22:13-21)D. Marriage of a believer and a non-believer shall be forbidden.
(Gen 24:3; Num 25:1-9; Ezra 9:12; Neh 10:30)E. Since marriage is for life, neither this Constitution nor the constitution of any State, nor any state or federal law, shall be construed to permit divorce. (Deut 22:19; Mark 10:9)
F. If a married man dies without children, his brother shall marry the widow. If he refuses to marry his brother's widow or deliberately does not give her children, he shall pay a fine of one shoe and be otherwise punished in a manner to be determined by law. (Gen 38:6-10; Deut 25:5-10)
G. In lieu of marriage, if there are no acceptable men in your town, it is required that you get your dad drunk and have sex with him (even if he had previously offered you up as a sex toy to men young and old), tag-teaming with any sisters you may have. Of course, this rule applies only if you are female. (Gen 19:31-36)
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLTJust remember that these are precisely the views and lessons that have formed people like Mike Huckabee's "family values and morals" in the religious lifestyle choice they have made.
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
History will not be kind to you and yours, Huckster...
Time and time again these family values types have had to be forced to re-define their idea of traditional marriage because of what societies morals have defined as abhorrent practices. This time is no different than any of the other times. It truly sickens me that in a nation where all men are supposedly created equal... That we constantly have to sink down to these morally corrupt and repugnant people's level to argue for the most basic civil rights of other men and women. Their right to choose.
Those of you on the other side of these arguments - and I assure you, they are all the same arguments repeated over and over again - will be viewed in the history books as the bigots and haters that you are. But let's be clear on this...
That was your choice to be viewed as a homophobic bigot.
Not mine. My choice and belief would be that other people have no right to stick their noses in to the love lives, bedrooms and marriages of other adults. And I never had to ask for Mike Huckabee's or any one else, Gay, Lesbian, heterosexual, religious, atheist or other, for permission to get married - other than my wife-to-be at the time. All of you on the wrong side of this argument have been left with the freedom to choose your religion, your morals, your values and even your spouse.
The LGBT community deserves the same rights, the same freedoms guaranteed to them under the Constitution, to make all of these same choices without your 5000 years of traditionally misguided, immoral and bigoted input.
If you take only one thing away from this... Just remember that there is a reason Free Will is the 1st divine invention - and Marriage is only the 2nd one...
The fact is that their own religious arguments against Marriage Equality are weaker than their own arguments for Marriage Equality that can be used against them.
And if it matters? Yes, I believe in God. Just not the one that has ever-changing rules decreed by mere mortals with a hateful and bigoted streak. My God has wicked sense of humor and laughs at the haters. lol
December 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post. Thanks.
December 12, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Welcome. :)
December 12, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fantastic argument - I was cheering on Stewart as well!
The scary thing about Huckabee is that deep down I think he would be OK with laws that strictly enforce the biblical idea of marriage (the part about concubines being ok would have saved a few Republican careers, for sure).
I would add to your reasoning that there is a huge hole in Republican logic on this issue. For a party that demands less government intrusion into the lives of the people (see arguments for refusing to pass the auto legislation), they sure are all about legislating love, marriage and procreation - three things that really shouldn't have any government oversight at all...
December 12, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
The probability that Huckabee and others may actually support those Biblical ideas is something that I would enjoy them exposing publicly for everyone to see.
One way they look absolutely insane (supporting those ideas) and the other way they look pretty darn hypocritical.
December 12, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's because they are both, and in large measure.
December 12, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was close to doing it when Stewart was interviewing him...I think he caught himself. Watch his facial expression when Stewart was reciting the biblical allowances regarding marriage. He didn't look like he thought they were unreasonable...
December 12, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice post. Well reasoned and argued. Trouble is, this issue doesn't lend itself to things like reason, facts, fairness, etc.
It's like trying to convince a Creationist to believe in Evolution; no amount of reason, logic, and evidence matters, because those things are all suspect and subordinate to their own concept of God, no matter how short-sighted, hypocritical or absurd it may be.
December 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is why I am equally ready to take the argument to their own turf. Many of them are able and willing to come to their own conclusions based on their own religious beliefs. Though, I suspect that the ones that can reason have already figured out and rejected the arguments of their misguided leaders.
The reality is that at the end of the day the courts will have to decide for marriage equality. Either there will be government approved marriage for everyone OR there will be no laws concerning marriage at all. The idea of second class citizens goes directly against the Constitution.
The other side may as well give it up because they will lose this argument on any turf. The way they are losing right now costs us all a lot of wasted government time and money - and them all of their credibility.
December 12, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hell, the Huckster is not looking at Prop.8 from a Christianity and Capitalism angle, which is usually considered to be far more valuable than the 'family values' bias used when nothing else will work.
According to a couple of law professors at the UCLA School of Law, same sex marriage in California would boost CAs local and state government income to the tune of $63.8 million.
Speaking of tunes, Neil Patrick Harris and a bunch of people I don't know put the work of the professors to a musical. Proposition 8 — The Musical, starring Jesus Christ and shrimp cocktails.
December 12, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I saw the video before but didn't have the time to watch it... That was great!
December 12, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Highly recommended! I've use the "free will" argument myself. And tried to use the idea of "virtue" as argument in a recent blog of mine:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2008/11/dignity-hospitality-community.php
I'm planning to do another in a bit, looking at how the universal declaration of human rights seems to endorse the rights of gay people (because it sure does not limit them!)
Thanks for you blog and your presence here.
December 12, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't typically venture into religious arguments. I may believe in God but I freely admit that I am "theologically challenged". My wife, a church going Sunday school teaching true believer type, could run circles around me in this department.
But I think that some issues are worth taking the time to take a hard look at.
Those that do believe in all of the church-bible stuff but still understand the basic human rights issues here (and especially the religious aspects of supporting this cause) need to give this issue their utmost attention because people like myself can only take these arguments so far.
December 12, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
When someone's argument is based on religious turf, then we need to go over there and retake the turf, which they claim says one thing when it's clear the basic messages say something else!
We're both on the same wavelength, I see. It's the right thing to do. I'm not gay either. But this irks the heck out of me on a number of levels. When one person's dignity is denied, then the dignity of all of us suffers. And when religion is misused to exclude, marginalize and punish people, then that is a travesty and must be exposed!
You've done well!
December 12, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post! Thank you and God bless you!
seahawk,
a believer but not a churchgoer
December 12, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks... We may have lost our home and a lot of other things in this lovely economy. But we are already blessed with 4 great kids and the fact that we are still surviving.
December 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I have said before:
The opposite of Faith is?
Any guesses?
.
.
.
.
CERTAINTY!
More harm is done by those who are "certain" their way is the right way, than there are stars in the night sky.
December 12, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ain't that the truth. Very well said.
December 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen!
December 12, 2008 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Doubt is the predecessor of Truth.
December 12, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen to that too!
December 12, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awesome. Rec!
December 12, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks :)
December 12, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup. All religions are lifestyle choices. Also, all political affiliations. So all voters who registered through a party and all people who choose to follow a religion should have to have laws passed to allow them to marry each other.
The only marriages that are okay involve people who don't make choices!
Oh wait, marriage is a choice. We better work on that.
December 12, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The way I look at it? None of us really knows whether God exists or not. None of us. Substitute Allah or whomever else you like, here, at this point, by the way.
So, since none of us knows, and we only have this totally rewritten and edited version of a Bible left to us (Christians, that is), and the Koran and papyrus leaves and every other "living proof of the Great One's words" left to us in the here and now, I prefer to not believe any word of any of it.
I prefer to believe in a) the sweetness of life and b) the hope that something brought it all to be. If nothing brought this all to be other than an accidental big bang once, so be it. Let's make the best of it.
So, that being said, if two creatures on this planet happen to meet and fall for each other and find beauty in their life together, who amongst us should complain?
December 12, 2008 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
LisB,
Here ya go - From Don Williams, I'll post these to Quinn also
I don't believe in superstars,
Organic food and foreign cars.
I don't believe the price of gold;
The certainty of growing old.
That right is right and left is wrong,
That north and south can't get along.
That east is east and west is west.
And being first is always best.
But I believe in love.
I believe in babies.
I believe in Mom and Dad.
And I believe in you.
Well, I don't believe that heaven waits,
For only those who congregate.
I like to think of God as love:
He's down below, He's up above.
He's watching people everywhere.
He knows who does and doesn't care.
And I'm an ordinary man,
Sometimes I wonder who I am.
But I believe in love.
I believe in music.
I believe in magic.
And I believe in you.
Well, I know with all my certainty,
What's going on with you and me,
Is a good thing.
It's true, I believe in you.
I don't believe virginity,
Is as common as it used to be.
In working days and sleeping nights,
That black is black and white is white.
That Superman and Robin Hood,
Are still alive in Hollywood.
That gasoline's in short supply,
The rising cost of getting by.
But I believe in love.
I believe in old folks.
I believe in children.
I believe in you.
But I believe in love.
I believe in babies.
I believe in Mom and Dad.
And I believe in you.
December 13, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink