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TPM
All Sandford, all of the time.
There is a crucial debate going on relative to should there or should there not be a "public option" in a health care reform package. Given that Congress is pretty much bought and paid for by the medical/pharmaceutical/insurance combine, a public option is probably all we can hope for.
There is also the story of the great ferment in Iran which could blossom into substantial social change and a number of other globally important stories.
Yet here at TPM it all Sandford, all of the time.
There is a crucial debate going on relative to should there or should there not be a "public option" in a health care reform package. Given that Congress is pretty much bought and paid for by the medical/pharmaceutical/insurance combine, a public option is probably all we can hope for.
There is also the story of the great ferment in Iran which could blossom into substantial social change and a number of other globally important stories.
Yet here at TPM it all Sandford, all of the time.
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Oh, come on, surely there can't be as many Sanford threads as there are settlement threads.
June 25, 2009 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think he's referring to what the crack TPM reporting and editorial staff is spending all their brainpower on. It's being covered like it was the 9/11/01 story.
June 25, 2009 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree but it wouldn't bug me so much if the cafe page or some other page was reserved for serious American issues. There are so many Israel threads that they crowd out everything else. Why don't they just give Israel a page too? Who am I to say don't talk about settlements but how many threads on settlements do you have to scroll through to find the healthcare thread you were looking for?
June 25, 2009 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
re the settlements; it all has to do with current events and the fact that it's a Democratic administration dealing with a hostile Israeli govt over an issue that has been a nasty cesspool of duplicity for years.
There is lots of interest among TPMers in the efforts to forge yet another "agreement" for reasons that should be obvious.
re scrolling down..... I find myself being similiarily annoyed when the book clubbers use the TPMCafe page as a dedicated thread in order to talk to eachother.
Then I tell myself to get over it and move on.
*Re No Michael Jackson threads....don't you want to discuss whether or not this proves the old Hollywood adage that deaths of the famous/"stars" always come in threes? ;~{)
*this be snark.
June 25, 2009 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
My two cents of solidarity with your cause were written as part of comments on other threads yesterday and earlier today, here and here. Thank you for doing a post on it which I can recommend, and I hope it makes it to the front page.
June 25, 2009 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
totally agree. TPM has really dropped the ball. Brian you are off vacation get to work on this critically important issue. I have repeatedly asked for TPM to follow the money trail on these Senators who stand in the way of health care reform!
June 25, 2009 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
OpenSecrets.org has sortable databases of contributions from the health care/insurance industry to specific members of Congress. It's interesting that Obama and Clinton are amongst the top beneficiaries.
June 25, 2009 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually Piggy had an excellent analysis of the healthcare lobby dollars recently. And did you miss the 3 blogs listed on the front page that are about health care: Reich, Krugman, and Skocpol? And there is a TPMDC nod to the moveon feinstein ad about healthcare.
He also posted the Specter news as it was breaking. If there's no news, are you wanting them to make it up?
June 25, 2009 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not at all. There is however, investigations, such as which spawned TPM and gained the first ever journalism award to an online news organization.
What's the point of simply reporting what the traditional media and hundreds of other web based news and commentary sites are reporting?
June 25, 2009 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really ... I Agree With You Chris . . .
Why doesn't Josh get in contact with Wendell Potter whose testimony before the Senate Commerce Committee is posted at my TPM Cafe blog here? That testimony will raise some eyebrows.
Maybe Mr Potter would be interested in doing a special for the Cafe.
I know you're listening Josh.
~OGD~
June 26, 2009 6:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've only been here since the primaries last year, so don't recall the earlier investigations. TPMMuckraker goes deeper as does TPMDC. Josh did an excellent job I thought during the campaign and that's what I have judged him on. I come here mostly for the cafe - just to hang out most of the time.
June 26, 2009 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
If there's no news, are you wanting them to make it up?
This is just such a bullshit reason. The world did not stop while the Sanford story was going on. On the contrary, spending a lot of time on it bears a lot of similarity to the distractions of the Monica Lewinsky days.
Thinking it's a good thing that they spend a lot of time on the Sanford story is one thing, but claiming nothing else was happening just means you are poorly informed.
If you don't like Chris' examples, I can give you a gazillion others.
Here's one happening at the same time that sounds more like the classic TPM "politics that matters" beat: G.O.P. to Paint Bernanke as Ally of Big Government. Oh, and while you were reading all about the Sanford affair, the Obama State Dept. was deciding to send arms to the Somali government, and our new financial regulation system was being built behind the scenes, here's one small example.
Obama was planning to mount an offense on the immigration issue at the same time that the Mexican president was announcing in a speech that drug cartels were furthering threatening his democracy, the same drug cartels that have been affecting crime allover our Southwest and beyond, and there's a new Congressional report came out that most of the guns used by the cartels come from the U.S.
Meanwhile in Pakistan on Tuesday we killed 60 with a drone attack and on Thursday Pakistan's prime minister complained directly to National Security Advisor Gen. Jones, who was meeting with him in person, that U.S. drone attacks on their soil must stop. The Obama administration is upset that it looks like Karzai is going to win in Afghanistan and don't know how it will effect their whole plan there. And in Iraq a bomb killed at least 60 in Baghdad a day before U.S. troops are to leave Iraqi cities and towns.
Is it that you prefer they do regional politics that have meaning for U.S. politics as a whole, well in NY the entire state Senate is missing, not just one governor, but rather than being the story of a the tragic sex-related fall of a party comer, it's the boring story of a powerful and wealthy independent manipulating new alliances between Dems and GOP. Is populism on the bailout your thing, well, Citigroup has a new plan to fatten salaries so that employees make as musch as they did in 2008.
That's just a small sampling. And they know it, they're not stupid. And with a small staff, the wisdom of choice is all the more important, what they chose was a conscious decision to cover to the exclusion of many other things. I can only surmise that the emphasis on salacious Republican sex scandals is purposeful. Maybe because the audience which that draws helps pay the bills? That's the same exact reason the cable TV news gives.
June 26, 2009 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also, are you saying that what Congress is up to besides health care and Iran is not news? Here's some of the news filings at thehill.com while Sanford was being covered here with the health care and Iran stories deleted. None of them are of more or equal interest, none of them matter as much as the Sanford story?
June 26, 2009 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
AA, do you have a link to the calendar of events you've listed?
June 26, 2009 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I took their pages with chronological links to their news stories
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/
and, as I said, I edited out the ones on health care and Iran as well as the few they had on Sanford during the "Sanford all the time" period. In the future if you want to see their news list, I would suggest that it's easiest to just go to thehill.com home page, see wassup there, and just click on "more articles" under "more news". That's how I got to those pages.
BTW, you made me recall this bit of trivia: I believe Josh Marshall used to write for them, and if I recall correctly, that continued for some time after he started TPM.
June 26, 2009 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks!
June 27, 2009 7:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't come here for the news. Or better said, I don't depend on Josh for all the news. I read other news sources. Josh hits the high points on the front page and offers unique viewpoints from time to time on the inside. I think of Eric's coverage of the Franken/Coleman trial in particular. Perhaps if you read beyond the first page you would find more to your liking.
June 26, 2009 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now you have switched your argument. I don't expect this small staff to cover all the news, either. You implied there was nothing else going on as important as the Sanford story, asking if we want them to just make up news. I was showing that is a ridiculous thing to say, because it's simply not true, there are plenty of other things to chose from, always, the "slow news day" excuse is just bogus.
I have come to expect them to have some integrity and good judgment about what topics they chose to spend more time on because of their past reputation.
I feel like Chris that Sanford is not it, and that their emphasis on it was to the point of ridiculousness. I think I may feel even more strongly about it than Chris. I think they have been showing a dangerous trend to want cover hot breaking sex scandals and similar things of little import and to revel in schaudenfraude about hypocrites being caught, just like tabloid newspapers.
This latest just lowers my opinion of them in my eyes further, an opinion which was once high. I think they are losing a once very good "keep your eye on the ball" perspective. I don't know if it is intentional pandering to a large audience for the financial renumeration or just a case of getting into a rut and not realizing how you have lost your direction.
In the past I could always count on them to be working on something of import while their Reader Blogs often went crazy with "hot news of the day" distraction, running with the pack. Often as not of late, that has reversed. They are the ones with no sense of perspective and the Reader Blog balance is improving. That's a very sad thing to have to say, as the staff are the ones that are supposed to be the professional journalists here.
Delving far far into the details of the Sanford story is a distraction no different than what happened to this country with Paula Jones/Monica Lewinsky, on a mini-level. I consider doing that, in principle, a really bad thing for a journalist with some power to affect what people spend time focusing on a really bad thing to do. It's one thing to do a story on "Republicans are hypocrites on sex, here's another one," it's a whole nother thing to work on that one story 24/7 and promote it and push it and push it and push it and snark on it and continue to follow it up when you could easily chose another topic to cover with that same time.
June 27, 2009 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are entitled to you opinion, of course, AA. I haven't thought of TPM as a mainly investigative site and think they've been doing a pretty good job of it anyway for a small operation. Perhaps the root of my objections to Chris's comments and yours is that perhaps your observations would be better addressed directly to Josh. I don't seen the point of airing them in the cafe except to be a asshat. It will probably get his attention, but it's a boorish way to do it.
June 27, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
NO Michael Jackson threads!
June 25, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
That seems to be the way things are heading around here, so don't be surprised.
It's getting increasingly tabloidish.
This is the entity which, collaborating with it's devoted readers, earned a Polk Award for doing significant original reporting by digging up and attaching legs to the Attorneys General firings story.
A simple mention of the Sandford story in the news wire, and its updates, would do just fine, but still would be nothing more than has been reported in hundreds of other outlets.
I'm very sorry to say it, but TPM is becoming pedestrian.
June 25, 2009 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or possibily too establishment? Maybe they aren't as willing to take on the Democrats?
June 25, 2009 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have asked myself the same question but don't believe such is the explanation. These days the democrats aren't providing the numbers of easy targets as are the republicans.
I think the question is, "what is the purpose of TPM"? It seems, since the Nov. election, to be straying from its original, at least as I have understood it, noble and informative purposes.
I wish to make it completely clear that I greatly value what TPM has produced and achieved, and hope future journalistic awards for its efforts.
June 25, 2009 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you talking about TPM as in Josh Marshall, Kleefeld, etc., or the readers in TPMcafe and other departments?
June 25, 2009 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm talking about TPM editorial decisions.
June 25, 2009 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
You called it.
June 25, 2009 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have been noticing the same thing. For example when Rush became the prominent story of the day at some point today. I would rather see offerings prioritized differently myself. I could care less about the whole Sanford BS. Just another Rebupblican leader having to admit that he is human... fine let's move on.
It was barely interesting... and our media is becoming more and more like the National Inquirer and less and less like news reporting.
I care much more about dealing with healthcare than anything to do with Rush or Sanford.
I wish they could break stories that would help with accountability on torture and the financial meltdown and the healthcare fight etc.
June 25, 2009 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ease up folks! Don't ya think you're being a bit hard on our favorite site's staff and editorial judgment? I do.
Let's consider the situation shall we?
The Sanford story is a big story. You can't get around that clear and irrefutable fact. Thus, putting some time and resources in it makes all the sense in the world. They've not forgotten about health care, nor have they stopped covering it.
TPM has a small staff. In order to stay on top of a fast developing, high interest story you need to devote some resources to it. Plus, it's incredibly juicy stuff when you have yet anothe Republican hypocrite caught "womanizing" in such a bizarre and outlandish manner.
The Sanford story will quickly recede. The health care story is going to be unfolding for many months... at the very least.
TPM hopped on the Sanford story quickly and with the appropriate skepticism from the moment it surfaced. TPM, it seems to me, kinda took the lead on the story as in the case of the DOJ DA firing scandal except this wasn't as involved and exploded like Jiffy Pop overnight.
They should be congratulated for the quick response and thorough, leading edge job they have done on the story thus far. So, if no one else does it, let me say:
GOOD JOB on the Sanford story TPM STAFF! Keep up the good work!
June 25, 2009 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
So TPM should be just another news aggregation site?
If that's the purpose, fine.
June 25, 2009 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not at all, I think they were helping drive the story for one thing. That's being more than a news aggregation site. You may have reached your saturation point on it and that's fine, but I think it unfair to say they've lost their focus. It was a huge story and still is. But it won't be forever. I think they did what they should do in such a case. It's a pretty extraordinary situation by any measure what with the disappearance, the trip to Argentina and all the blatant lieing by him and staff in the days leading to his return to the US.
June 25, 2009 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? A politician copping to an affair. Yeah, really big story. John Ensign is really happy right now.
June 25, 2009 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, in point of fact it is. Maybe not to you personally but the standard is not your approval or interest.
This man was an up and coming star of the right wing nationally. He had been one of two Governors who recently stood out in genuine and flamboyant defiance of the new President's economic recovery plan. He was the chief executive of a state who disappeared for days on end. A state, I might add, that is the cornerstone of right wing Republicanism. Not only that, but he left the country without anyone officially knowing where he was in terms of the state government. That, in and of itself, is a big deal and quite a story. Governors have actual authority for lots of things and that authority may well be needed at a moment's notice. Allowing there to be any confusion about who has the authority to use the powers granted a Governor is a massive dereliction of duty. The lurid detail that he was in the midst of a weird, hypocritical, long distance affair is not the story in and of itself. This was wildly strange behavior from a major political figure of national prominence. So by any accepted standard at all of what constitutes a big story this was a big story. You don't like the story. It doesn't turn your crank. I get that, but TPM did not err in its coverage. And again, I would stress, TPM was on top of this long before most in the blogosphere let alone the corporate media. Where the corporate media accepted the lies and repeated them, TPM rightly didn't believe them and made that known. Their dogged coverage helped to drive the story nationally and that is a good thing for many reasons not the least of which is to highlight to the public the hypocrisy of the Republican right, the "Christian" right and to help further cripple the right wing extremists in our country.
June 25, 2009 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nor do you, if I'm understanding your rather incoherent comment correctly.
I am simply stating my opinion as to TPM editorial policy. You don't agree.
BFD
June 25, 2009 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could you state specifically what you want TPM to do -- page by page. Your complaints are rather broad and sweeping. I would like to know how you would do it, and what you would eliminate. Would you not run the Sanford story at all?
Surely if that is so, then Bachman is not worth a mention because she is just a stupid person. How about Michael Steele? The list of ignorant dopes goes on and on; do we only get to discuss the brilliant republicans? If so, we won't have too many republican discussions here. Sometimes, examples of the far-right nut-cases get highlighted because otherwise we might assume they are all not ass-hats.
Robert Reich, Miquelito, TPMDC, GregorZap, KaliStar (x2), The_Letter_B, are just a few examples of blogs on the health care debate TODAY! That doesn't include thoughtful postings under each one.
And you're equating the site to the National Inquirer?
Frankly, I think you just got up on the wrong side of the bed. Happens to me sometimes too, and I tick a few people off, take a re-look, and often realize I was just cranky. If that isn't the case, and you really think all you said is true, I honestly wish you luck on finding a better site. I get bothered here from time to time, but there is no better one that I know of.
Agree to disagree and all that.
June 25, 2009 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's important to acknowledge that reader posts are not the same thing as work produced by the editorial staff at TPM and given actual prominence on the site. There used to be a dynamic where the "mothership" helped drive conversation in the Cafe and vice-versa. That is increasingly no longer the case.
I'm in the middle on this issue; I have my opinions, but ultimately Josh can do whatever the fuck he wants. It is difficult to ignore, however, that some of the best contributors are producing "So long, this place no longer works for me" posts and many others are just quietly disappearing.
June 26, 2009 3:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Incoherent? I don't think that is accurate in the slightest. Perhaps it is your understanding that the word applies to eh?
June 26, 2009 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
To me it seems more schadenfreude than actual news.
If you look at Muckraker - 100% of the content involves republican sex scandals. From my perspective, once the "missing gov" was resolved as penis-play, it deserved one more "aaah, we should have known! Hey, at least it wasn't a dude!" post and then let TMZ take over. To me it's like: "more republican hypocracy? Check.".
It's not like these posts are discussing policy implications, it's strictly the sleaze. And even worse, their choices of subject matter are mundane enough that they essentially duplicate the exact same headlines as every other venue out there. Posting the same information as Empty Wheel, Politico, HuffPo, The Plum Line, etc. is hardly "driving the conversation". At what point does it become masturbatory?
June 26, 2009 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
When we leave the crucial issue that the Governor had abandoned his post as Head of State is when we started jerking off.
This is America and capitalism is King. Sex sells, so we spend time on Sanford and sons. Well, he abandoned them too, on Father's Day, but even that becomes an after-thought once we find more lurid details of his Argentinian SNAFU. Even the fact that the Governor had the economically challenged State of South Carolina paying for his trip, until he got caught, takes a back seat to finding a picture of the woman, or an interview, or maybe something steamy.
Ratings pays the rent. Sex sells. I'm extremely grateful we can still use the rest of the site for more important matters. This ain't HuffPo, but the money might get us there too, once TPM gets more staff. Who knows? Right now, IMHO, TPM is still #1, but it will need to continue to offer meat on the bone for me to stay around. Right now, it still does, I'm still here, and I contribute what voice I can to the debate. I also appreciate Chris taking the time to advocate for more meat.
June 26, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you know what muckraker means? If they spent any less than 100% it would not all be muckraking and by definition those non-muckraking stories would be out of place.
June 26, 2009 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
AK
June 26, 2009 7:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't care about Sanford either, but I can just ignore it.
Maybe there is a bigger issue to be explored regarding how TPM is evolving.
I can't answer that because I've only been around here for a year.
June 25, 2009 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't really mind the sometimes tabloid nature of the DC page because it comes and goes quickly. I think we're missing something in between the breaking news stuff and the academic leisurely discussions of the book club.
We need pages for current issues that are going to be around for awhile like healthcare - topics between breaking news and a book. I want something that is oriented for people who want to take action on American issues.
June 25, 2009 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you ever visit Fire Dog Lake? I often disagree with her, but Hamsher is an ass-kicker. They are whipping the public option right now.
June 26, 2009 3:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've been spending more and more time there. (fire dog lake)
June 26, 2009 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and I find I'm visiting other blogs more often these days because they are doing more on the health issue.
June 26, 2009 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know.
I have written perhaps 4 or 5 posts recently, even today, which touch on the developments in Iran--whether there are any concrete breaking news on the subject or not. Whether due to lack of interest, or my inability to write successfully anymore, I have not received hardly any comments at all.
I cried today when MJ died, for reasons only my sister and I know. I have no reason to blog about it. It happened, but what is there really to discuss?
Same with a man's infidelity.
June 26, 2009 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
joe, I doubt you've suddenly become unable to write successfully.
It's always good to have generated comments on a particular post, to further the discussion, etc., but sometimes it just doesn't happen. (I know this from my own posts.)
I haven't been here that long but it does seem like a batch of really great thinkers and reader contributors have moved on from TPM recently.
That doesn't help.
But there are always new people coming along and there are still some great posters here, including you.
June 26, 2009 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're a great writer, Joe. Don't lose heart. Part of it seems to be a summer slow-down. Another thing is, personally, I don't read most of the Iran posts here, it's not really TPM's (or TPMreaders') comparative advantage. I'd love to see that MJ post though. Not everything needs to be debating points. And your writing is a pleasure to read in itself.
June 26, 2009 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Obey and Gary - don't let the number of comments/recommends discourage you. That tends to ebb and flow. Sometimes really good stuff slips through the cracks ... but that's the nature of things, especially in the summer. Your posts are excellent.
June 26, 2009 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look on the bright side Joe. A couple of posters here have been driven to disable the comments on their posts due to their perceived harassment by commenters.
June 26, 2009 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very much in agreement Chris. It's not the kind of stuff I come to TPM for. If I want Sanford coverage, I'll go over to Wonkette. What a waste of time and resources.
June 26, 2009 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
A blog about how we shouldn't be talking about Sanford..
Good use of time.
June 26, 2009 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Acknowledged that we could also be writing, making suggestions and offerings to the staff at TPM.
And a for those jumping ship or those who want to talk about more interesting things... taking the initiative and writing about them, inviting discourse is also 'useful'.
June 26, 2009 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh cut us some slack Chris. Its not all Sanford and Sin and Ensign. Hell I am doing a bible study. ha
All sorts of different blogs hummin, all sorts of news on Muck, DC, FrontPage.......
Curt & Miguel are hitting it hard today--hitting MSM for idiocy...
But I will tell you one thing, you are getting one hell of a reaction on your blog. hahahah
Great Post.
June 26, 2009 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink