What Do We Do?
They're fighting. And as much as high minds might prefer to dismiss their absurd and rediculous tactics - they appear to be slowly but surely gaining ground. Shake our heads, we do. Roll our eyes and let out deep sighs. Deep and loud enough to be almost as absurd as their shouts, but only almost. For our expressions of disapproving exasperation cannot begin to match their insolence. So why do we think they will? After all, we don't mean harm. We don't mean to call to arms a group that are at best ill-informed ... at worst, dangerously destructive to our country and our Constitution. To our way of life and to our President. We understand that differences of opinion are vital and necessary to preserve our freedoms, we want nothing more than to hear all voices.
Who are we? We are the people of the United States of America who still believe in truth and justice for all. We are Republican and Democratic, Independant, Libertarian, Green and unaffiliated. We are all races and creeds, all denominations and those who proudly claim none. We are male and female, rich and poor, sick and healthy, surrounded by those who think as we do or are alone in our opinions. We are married and single - some waiting for the day that the law will catch up with reality.
Who are they? No different than "we". And that is what we need to remember.
So what do we do? There is much at stake, much to belabor and for which to fight. It appears to be two sides that must come to blows until the last one is standing. Unfortunately, alone and completely out of breath and ideas regarding how to proceed in a logical manner. Ideas that will last longer than it took to come up with them. Ideas that just might be best for -dare it be said?- everyone. Aren't we the ones who claim to be so inclusive? Ahh. I guess it all depends on whether "they" agree with us.
So again - what do we do?
Sometimes I imagine President Obama wishes he was born in Kenya.
What do we do? For starters, attend a town hall meeting near you and stand up in support of the public option. Please see "Hand-wringing and Finger-pointing recent reader post for a list of up-coming town hall meetings.
August 7, 2009 2:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely agreed. Without trying to shout louder? For I doubt that will be possible. If it is, it defeats the purpose and causes further bedlam. That goes nowhere.
August 7, 2009 3:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah and sometimes I am wishing I was born in France...
They are going to keep ratcheting things up until we rise up and put and end to this mess.
This is feels so much like gangs trying to move in and take over the neighborhood. The pseudo christian, right wing mafia is trying to take over our media, our government, and basically our entire democracy.
What are the best ways to respond?
I don't really know...
August 7, 2009 3:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Think outside the box, synch. Put an end to this mess? Perhaps the mess is not cleansed by referring to it as a mafia.
Then again - I don't know, either.
August 7, 2009 3:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, based on what I am learning I am thinking of a very big picture mess that encompasses the power structures that are behind how we ended up with two terms of Bush and Cheney etc. not just this town hall meeting and health care stuff.
I use the word mafia because there is world wide network with a fairly immoral base of beliefs based on what I've been learning since coverage of the secretive Doug Coe and 'The Family' has been a little more a revealed through the Sanford and Ensign affairs, etc.
This is why I feel that sense that there is a gang trying to move in and completely take over.
I find it ridiculous how much power the republicans are able to wield when they are not even in the majority in congress and are not in power in the executive branch.
I feel oneness must also recognize differences in awareness and levels of development and the energies that would take advantage of those that believe in inclusiveness.
Tibet is a great example of what can happen if you just focus on certain ideals. In fact while you hear people trying to compare President Obama to Hitler, Doug Coe and this wide network of people in power have an affinity for Hitler and Mao etc.
In my opinion we can recognize that we prefer to be inclusive when we are coming together with like-minded people but that we must express boundaries with those that have demonstrated that they would absolutely 'abuse' our desire for unity and inclusiveness to gain more power, money, control, and advantage.
Love is not only warm and fuzzy, sometimes it is fierce like a lightning bolt cutting through and illuminating.
August 7, 2009 5:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
"In my opinion we can recognize that we prefer to be inclusive when we are coming together with like-minded people but that we must express boundaries with those that have demonstrated that they would absolutely 'abuse' our desire for unity and inclusiveness to gain more power, money, control, and advantage."
I see your point. Yet, coming together with like-minded people is not inclusive - it's exclusive.
Do we fight fire with fire? I'll admit that it's my first reaction. But then I realize that the likely outcome will be a flame that burns us all. No matter who you are, you hate to lose an argument. The more points asserted, the less likely most are to listen to them. Human nature. Why? Because we usually stop listening whenever we stop talking.
August 7, 2009 6:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I understand what you are saying and I agree that we must listen. The danger is to treat those that you are listening to you as though they will not abuse you even as you are listening to them. When I said like minded I guess I meant like-mannered... in the sense that 'you' may 'listen' and they have no intention of listening whatsoever but are simply showing up to gain some advantage.
Again Mao and Tibet being an example.
August 7, 2009 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also I never suggested 'fighting fire with fire'... that is not what I meant at all.
What I am suggesting is we don't just hand the keys of the kingdom over to tyrants out of a desire to be 'inclusive'.
August 7, 2009 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should read
"When I said like minded I guess I meant like-mannered... in the sense that
without this
'you' may 'listen' and they have no intention of listening whatsoever but are simply showing up to gain some advantage.
Again Mao and Tibet being an example.
August 7, 2009 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, barefooted. You remind us of what we are fighting for and that "fighting" must be understood as non-violent action and the refusal on our part to commit any action that might precipitate violence.
But that doesn't mean we can't "Shhhhh" them in unison or sing patriotic songs at the top of our lungs. We shouted for health care in St. Louis last night, just a few dozen of us, against the jeers and taunts of hundreds of angry faces. And our voices rose ABOVE theirs, spilling into the air like fire bursting from our hearts.
August 7, 2009 3:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
The truth will set us free, Ripper. You clearly show why that may not mean hand-to-hand combat, but a stronger fire in our hearts to explain ... and to listen.
August 7, 2009 3:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
It appears to be two sides that must come to blows until the last one is standing ... Aren't we the ones who claim to be so inclusive?
Missy, almost always I prefer the win-win approach to problems. But when a Representative asked in one of the town hall meetings for the people on Medicare to raise their hands and then for the people against gov't run health care to raise theirs, and the same people raised their hands both times, I find myself willing to admit defeat on the win-win approach.
Since the same people who don't know the difference between gov't run insurance and privately held cash farms will be included and benefit from health care reform, it seems to be a far better thing to just muscle it through. That way we can hold on to our claims of inclusiveness and have better health care, all at the same time. :-)
August 7, 2009 5:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
These people (very loose use of the term) will never stand still for "win-win" in any instance. Never.
We are not dealing with anyone who is amenable to reason here. They are driven by a bad mix of fear and hatred. And they are already prone to violence, as yesterday has shown.
Let them have some of it back. I'm serious. I know this isn't going to make me any friends, and may cost me a few. So be it. These people understand only hate and fear. Part of me says this: Let them experience it for real. Let a few of them bleed. Let a few of them use crutches to walk for a few months. And send many of them to Federal prison for domestic terrorism.
The other part of me says something else: Stop holding events where this sort of thing can happen. Turn to electronic distribution of any forum, and make very clear that this sort of thuggery is the reason why.
And why it it that rules concerning demonstrations and the like only seem to apply to the left? A dose of tear gas would not do any permanent harm and might teach some of these pathetic cretins a blunt lesson.
August 7, 2009 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yez, there is certainly a double standard, and while we stand aghast at Medicare recipients opposing national healthcare, it is the organized police force being unsupportive of the party that demanded they have the right to organize so that they could have decent pay and benefits.
United THEY stand!!!
August 8, 2009 2:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Never admit defeat, shell. Especially in the face of the obviously misinformed. I might even use the term stupid if it wouldn't be so easy to turn it back on me. ;)
We need to face that the opposition is better organized than we are. They are using those who don't mind being led to give the impression of strength. Impressions are powerful - until they are exposed as simply that, and proven to be the islands in the desert.
The question is: how best to unveil the mirage?
August 7, 2009 6:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ask them for their IDs. Make sure these screaming people are of the districts these town meetings are set up for.
When Joe Liberman hired people from out of state to attend Lamonts meet and greets in order to disrupt them, some reporters and people got wise to the tactic, and started asking them what part of Connecticut they were from. They refused to answer. They also started leaving in a hurry. Sunlight is always a good thing.
I don't think insisting that town meetings be attended by local constituents is being exclusive, it is merely accommodating those that live in the district before allowing outsiders to attend. These meetings are for constituents, after all.
It might lessen the mischief at them.
Maybe.
August 7, 2009 8:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand what your problem is.
You are concerned about them shouting, but on other hand there would be no public dialog at all if the Congress pass the bill before the recess.
You want to fight fire with fire, but as far as I can see outside of partisan blogosphere, many people who protest are independends not republicans.
Sending in the union troops as political police force of the WH and inviting Americans to snitch on Americans? Well Obama's already doing it.
Apart from pausing and reflecting on the why's, I'm not sure what else you can do.
August 7, 2009 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
You do not belong here.
August 7, 2009 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
TPMCafe disagrees...
1. All political viewpoints are welcome...
August 7, 2009 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lalo,
You are quite mistaken in many of your premises and I sense you know it. The White House has ordered no thugs in anywhere, union or other. You are spewing the Teabag line.
August 7, 2009 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think you read my words very carefully, Lalo.
August 7, 2009 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I don't understand..."
If that is your determination, I could never talk you out of it. There are no discussions at these meetings and avoiding discussion is exactly what the intentions of the agitators are.
We have a pathetic and immoral health care sytem that includes not only the insurance companies but the massive healthcare corporations. Putting profits before patients is deplorable.
August 8, 2009 2:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Barefooted, this is a good post.
Some of the protester's signs at town halls refer to 44 million uninsured. The protesters do not want to pay for the health care of those uninsured individuals. It would legitimatize the status of this group of people, whatever their reason for being uninsured.
Those signs brought something that's been nagging at me for a long time to the surface. The undercurrent fueling the protester's rage is race. Everything else is a smokescreen: the fascist bleats, the euthanasia meme, government rationing -- all smokescreens.
We are in a new incarnation of the civil rights movement.
That we have a biracial president is anathema to the racists' construct of our country. Further, we now we have a Hispanic woman on the Supreme Court. And the racist anti-immigrant brigade is furious.
I think it was Stephen Colbert who recently said something to this effect: Not all Republicans are racists. But if you're a racist, you're probably a Republican.
Conservatives have long resented their tax dollars going to welfare benefits, food stamps, etc. Now, if enacted, they believe health care reform legislation would allocate their tax dollars to buy health insurance for individuals who can't get insurance from their employers or are too poor to buy it on their own. They see the recipients of those benefits as undeserving and at fault for their predicament and it royally pisses them off to subsidize them. More to the point, they see those recipients as being largely African American, and now, immigrants.
This isn't pretty. It's the ugly side of our country. Racism is once again the source of our civil strife.
So. What do we do?
What did they do during the civil rights movement? Maybe history could provide insight into how to navigate these waters.
August 7, 2009 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's my view. These hooligans and thugs are trying to wrest the wheel of the ship of state away from our elected officials.
I think Obama needs to demonstrate who's at the wheel. And Pelosi and Reed should call back the Congress and address this. They should consider health care to be part of national defense and an aide to the economy - as who will want to invest in a sick nation and how easily is a sick nation prey to forces like withdrawal of investments or other ways of taking down the economy.
Those who should be steering the ship of state should vow to get health care right - irregardless of whether or not they are re-elected. They should put the longterm good of America above the special interests, the mobsters, the hooligans goons, the moneyed classes who care little about the health of the uninsured or those burdened by illness.
This is a national defense issue, in my view. It relates to the Rule of Law. Health care is a social good - not a commodity. We ignore it at our peril.
I truly believe the President and the Congress must intervene.
August 7, 2009 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree in spades, but that sure as hell doesn't describe the American political system in 2009.
(WHISPERS): "Follow the money..."
The health insurance companies and big pharma have the key players bought and paid for. To wit (or maybe that should be "twit"): Max Baucus.
With friends like him, who needs enemies?
August 7, 2009 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Always Max. Follow the money. ha!!
August 7, 2009 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes it's better to be seen than heard. I'm not suggesting that advocates of reform simply knuckle under---nothing of the sort. I just think there's no point in engaging the teabaggers head-to-head on their own astroturf.
But DO give them plenty of rope!
Who can yell the loudest doesn't count for much in the end. What really matters is who gets the last word.
---s
August 7, 2009 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
When you say they seem to be gaining ground, slowly but surely, what measure are you using?
Canned public outrage?
Rasmussen polls?
All that matters is whether or not elected Democrats will follow through with serious un-weakened health reform when they vote in September.
At this point, I don't think it has anything to do with faux citizen anger staged throughout the remaining weeks of the summer.
Don't buy the PR that conservatives are so desperately trying to sell.
August 7, 2009 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tend to pay very little attention to polls because numbers are easily manipulated. So is the MSM and the idiot who believes everything he/she hears because their favorite persona said it.
But I pay attention when even the idiots are organizing and staging better than our elected representatives. Better than those armed with facts, better than those speaking truth. It's getting scary out there - and I really wish I was just buying into PR.
August 7, 2009 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am heartsick, Missy. I don't see how so many people who are just trying to do the best for everyone can be bested by a few who just want to keep what they have and let the rest die...
The ignorance of those who would NEVER want to give up their medicare (or their parents) are the same ones screaming they don't want the gov. involved in health care...same goes for old WWII vets using the VA...go figure.
Now we have that retread, palin, suggesting that Obama's "death panel" would have put her baby to death. The unfairness of it all just makes me want to cry.
August 7, 2009 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still, read what cindymax posted above. I think she's nailed what is really behind much of the faux "outrage".
August 7, 2009 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
That literally made me sick to my stomach...I don't think I've ever let my mind go there. BUT, it makes a sick sort of sense. Now I'm really going to cry.
August 7, 2009 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I very much resent all the continuing fear-mongering that is continuing. I spent yesterday afternoon while at the hair salon, (yes, every once in awhile one must do what one must do)trying to calm down a group of freaked out people who are listening to entirely too much so called conservative talk radio. They were not die-hards, just frightened and confused. I think I left them actually considering the problem they were falling victim to without realizing it.
Note that in my region there are really only 1.5 stations that are not RW News/Talk. The .5 is a pretty conservative station that retains one very moderate Dem. The rest tend toward the right. We've only gained a Progressive station, Air America the past year.
I think if we all go out and do the things we usually do but calmly talk with people and open their eyes to the fear-mongering, lies etc. it may help. If they start frothing though, they may be too far gone. Take several steps back and make a happy comment about a great restaurant or sports.
August 7, 2009 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
What we do is we let them talk. We remember that freedom of speech is not limited to things we agree with, nor is it limited to Rules of Order. If things become shouting matches, so be it. We let as many of them in as want to show up/ They are Americans, too, and if we're going to have public forums, then we ought to be willing to have public forums. Give them the benefit of the doubt that they, like you, have strong opinions on the subject. Be willing to believe in democracy.
If the idea has merit, then it will have merit. No one on either side at these meetings is coming to be informed -- they are coming to make their voices heard. Trust the representatives are working to the best of their ability to be in the public interest. If you don't think they are, run against them. Make your case. See if enough people agree with you to elect you in their stead.
I come from to this from a different perspective, because I don't believe there is a groundswell of support for any reform. I believe people want their insurance to be cheaper, and they want it to cover more. They also want their cable to cheaper to to offer more channels. There might be 50 million people in the country who think this is a big deal -- that's a lot, but it's roughly 12 percent of the population. Whatever reforms that comes through will affect the other 88 percent, too.
And don't underestimate their concerns. Many are valid. While many downplay it, rationing is a legitimate concern (I say this because my wife has requires a luprin shot every month to control endometriosis pain. It cost $500. It saves her about three days of pain a month. Is that worth it? What about infertility coverage? What about anti-depressants? Or sleeping pills? or psychotherapy? Bariatric surgery? Hip replacements on 85+ year olds? SRS surgery? Breast augmentation surgery? How about after a mastectomy? With single payer or even a public option, we are all paying for those things. Should we?
The CBO has already said there won't be a cost savings. So how does it get paid for? Raising taxes on the rich? Fine, until the line moves, and the line always moves. So when theses people are protesting, you may doubt their motives, but blowing off their concerns is no more meritorious than them blowing off yours.
So you asked what we do? We let democracy play out. I don't think this issue is a no-brainer on either side. It deserves loud, boisterous and vehement debate. So lets have it.
August 8, 2009 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, after they have screamed then let someone else have the floor. But this is NOT debate. This is fascist behavior by agitators whos sole purpose is to silence opposition. They dominate meetings with their voices and tey drive away people with opposing views. If it were democracy, everyone would have a voice but they are trampling on the rights of others.
August 8, 2009 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink