ARE WE ASSERTING IRRATIONAL RATIONALES?
It's so interesting to me how so many are so quick to make non-fact based
declarations based only on assumptions on the Gates issue.
None of us were there. None of us KNOW the words, nuances and/or actions of
any of the principals. All we can do is assume and choose to use our
assumptions as a springboard to blame and/or support one over the other.
When choosing to do this - we are making unfounded preconceived judgments
based not on this specific issue but on our own perceptions and
opinions, not on reality founded in factual knowledge. Thus are the seeds of
irrational prejudices sown!
Dare I ask, no matter which assumption we make in this case, isn't it just
another form of airing our own biases? Giving credence to media hype?
What if the policeman had been black and Gates white? Would that change
your perception/assumption? What if.........ah, too many to list.
Is it possible Gates, due to his past experiences, projected malice where
in this instance there was none? Is it possible that both were right? And
wrong?
We'll never really know - we can only assume! Make irrational rationales!
In my opinion, none of us have any valid right to make any judgments in
this matter, because we do not have factual knowledge of all that transpired.
We do not know the individuals nor their motivations.
And perhaps most important, it only serves to support the negative
agendas of those who strive to destruct, not construct!
Now, that said, can we please use our time and energy in working towards healthcare reform and other positive issues that we can utilize facts to promote and make informed decisions about?
(Partially posted in comment form on other posts.)
Super post!
Yes!
Yes!
Yes, but we are able to discern facts where none actually exist based entirely on our own personal experiences! Factual knowledge is not important when you have a strong opinion skewed by emotionalism and supported by fellow strangers! This blogging thing is amazing!
Yes, but we love to make shit up and pretend to be experts in a world of our making! Please don't take that away from us, Aunt Sam!
Seriously, Aunt Sam. Excellent post. Thanks.
July 25, 2009 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL :)
July 25, 2009 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
seconded
July 25, 2009 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I echo ready as Miguel has. Great post.
No I do not have the facts either!!!
July 25, 2009 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno how many are really (seriously) debating who said what, and only an extremely small minority see the issue as race-motivated at all.
I, NCSteve in much more length, and others, have argued on the assumed premise that the police report is word-for-word objective truth (whether or not it is does not really matter.)
But perhaps your post is intended for the other groups of people, and I am interjecting for no good reason.
July 25, 2009 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Karl,
It's fine to have opinions - I express mine all the time to the chagrin of many.
However, what is so maddening to me is all the hypothesis and 'sides' taken, assumptions made about one or the other principal's character (or lack thereof) - But especially I find myself angry that so many are engaging in this exercise in futility and fault finding when it serves no useful, positive purpose - whereas time (in my opinion) would be better spent on promoting viable healthcare reform and like issues.
It's also feeding the wolves at the door who are howling in glee because so many are assisting them in promoting the useless blather instead of factual discourse about matters at hand we can do something about!
Okay, done. Nice of you to stop by, appreciate.
July 25, 2009 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
One thing I've learned from much more activity I had a couple of years ago on a different site is that the minds of the people arguing the issues are rarely changed. Many who post are well schooled on the issues they post on and their positions are hardened. That can make it seem as an exercise in futility. But in the give and take of the debate lurkers who may not have looked at the issues in depth can gain insight and move toward a different position or view.
I think many people posting here and other heavily traveled sites would be surprised how many lurkers are reading your posts and what a large effect you can have in fostering changed minds. Those who are brave enough to post have an awesome responsibility. I know it sounds corny but its true.
The abuse of police power is imo a very important issue. I don't think the discussions we've had here are futile at all. Health care is very important too so hopefully there will be some good threads and dialog on that issue too.
July 26, 2009 6:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think relevant discussion is ever futile. However, to make judgments on any person's character or issue without knowledge of the facts - not just media hype or supposition - is seldom constructive or positive. It only serves to create more chaos and increase negativity.
In your comment it appears that you have judged there was an abuse of their power by the officer(s) involved. What facts are you using to make that call?
Too many are jumping the shark and basically assassinating the characters of these men (which one depends upon the uninformed opinion of those who are judging who's right/wrong without factual knowledge).
This is one incident that again, we can never know the intent, motivation and/or specifics. It is not a watershed moment about either police abuse of power or Gate's character/agenda.
There is nothing positive to be gained by nattering speculation (but much to be lost by loss of focus on other critical matters).
July 26, 2009 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
It isn't all that dramatic. The cop could be the best guy in the world with sterling character and still be wrong in this instance, subject to constructive criticism over his actions.
That isn't jumping the shark or casting aspersions, but simply making a judgment based on the available evidence. To believe that cops have a responsibility to act at a cut many steps above an irrational citizen because of the enormous power they wield seems common sense to me and hardly some hardened ideological view.
Of course there have been worse cases of abuse, but those rarely get such wide-spread national attention. I bet there were hundreds of such cases on the night Gates was arrested that we will never hear about. I think it is reasonable to use this case a way of highlighting all those other injustices.
July 26, 2009 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post, without the "suspension of disbeliefs" one cannot rationally argue any point in regards to a matter where only a few facts are known.
July 25, 2009 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could I be wrong in my conclusions? Sure, but that doesn't mean I am being irrational or prejudicial.
I have to assume that the eyewitness accounts have some truth to them. And them I draw conclusions based on those accounts.
How is that any different from what a judge would do if the Gates incident were to go to trial? How is it different than talking about it at the family dinner table?
I have a right to my opinion as to who acted rightly or wrongly. If I feel I don't have enough facts to form an opinion, then I would say so. But in this case there seems to be enough eye witness accounts where it's not just a case of "he said - she said". I might agree with your post if there weren't other cops, the limo driver and 3rd party bystanders in front of the house.
Is it better use of people's time to focus on other issues? Of course. But that's a separate point.
July 26, 2009 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink