I hated astral66's previous diaries on this issue... (only torure-porn addicts want to see those pictures)...

But Maliki's objection is serious business, and it changed my opinion about releasing the photos.

Those god-awful things are not primarily a matter of domestic politics!

Yes, let's make a compromise with our own conscience to save ourselves from the doom and gloom pronouncements of Maliki, borrowing from Al Gore.

This moral relativism is a typical example of liberals hunting the witches when it suits a political purposes, then abandoning it when that suits another.

Either Nobama has no balls or he didn't mean a word of what his campaign BS. I'm sure it's both.

A president that has convictions would have released the photos, and then used the Egypt speech to apologize on behalf of the American people and use it as a moment of reconciliation and breaking with the past in front of the entire world.

But no, this one's going to be another teleprompted platitude made for prime time photo-op.

“Baghdad will burn if photos are released”?

If the photos of American soldiers abusing Iraqis are released, Americans soldiers will be the target of the anger, correct? But the initial argument here is that, photos released, Americans will have to return to the cities, increase our presence there and fight off the chaotic hordes of angry Arabs. Does this really make sense to you?

At another point in the article, it’s argued that American forces would have to withdraw a year earlier if the photos are released and that is not enough time to train Iraqi forces. Hmmm? How long have we heard that line?

These photos are not going to turn on any lightbulbs over the heads of the hungry, struggling, maimed, family-less, homeless, refugees, years-long suffering Iraqis.In fact, the Iraqi people are quite acutely aware of what has been happening in their country for lo these many years (the American public is not).

Face it, the suppression or destruction of these photos and the thousands of photos, videos, recordings, transcripts, emails and documents of abuses are a cover-up dealing with the American audience not the Iraqis.

I'm sorry, but since when has Maliki been right about anything?

Maliki knows that he only stays in power as long as the U.S. is in Iraq. So be assured that the release of the photos would hasten a U.S. withdrawal, hence Maliki is against it. It has nothing to do with Baghdad burning down.

If I recall correctly, Zipperusup has been to Iraq and favors release of the photos. No exposure, no justice. To heal, we must feel the shame first. It may be that we can have justice without public exposure. If this is about moving forward with the court hearings, the ACLU already agreed that they do not feel any compulsion to publicize the photos, just get them on the record in court. I am in favor of that. I am one who feels publishing the photos is pandering of the most gruesome kind. I do not need to see them. I want the criminals held accountable and only the courts need to see them. All this talk about whether Time or Newsweek will get to publish them is a distraction. Let's not talk about the photos. Let's talk about the crimes. Let the hearings begin already.

How many times have people predicted Baghdad will "burn"? Of course there are still large bombings every few days that we mostly ignore. So if we don't release the pictures, those 30 mangled bodies each 2-3 days won't be mangled? Or it will be 35? Or 350? Or 3000? Or 3 million? Stop me whenever you want, I can extrapolate to billions.

Meanwhile Americans still favor keeping Gitmo open because they don't think we torture.

Massive uprising my ass. How many couch potatoes have urged us to war with fear-mongering crap. The terrorists are coming, the terrorists are coming. Release the goddamn pictures, blur the unsightly parts, let us stare our crimes in the face whether we're on the couch or in the field. Better, let the Iraqis gloat that we're having to choke on our own pride and self-righteousness.

And why do you conclude it'll delay us getting out? When they jeer us and stone us, maybe it'll be the time we make the sane decision, to get our butts home where they belong. On the couch.

Let me 'drop' a conspiracy theory on you to ponder.

(1) There is a problem with the time line in the article.

The article first talks of '...In the days leading up to a May 28 deadline to release the photos... U.S. officials, led by Christopher Hill, told Maliki that the administration was preparing to release photos...Maliki went pale in the face and said "Baghdad will burn"..several days after the meeting, Odierno returned to Washington, and he and Gates took their concerns to Obama...May 13, Obama said he would not release photos.

I may be wrong here but I thought May 13 came before May 28. Is this a case of drumming up evidence after the fact? A case very pertinent to these photos. After all Bush et al., have now been shown to have tortured individuals so as to get information linking Hussein to Al Quieda, thereby justifying the invasion of Iraq.

(2) The article provides tantalizing ideas as to the real reason the administration doesn't want the release of the photos.

'...Iraq is scheduled to hold a referendum by July 30 on the accord which calls for the withdrawal of all U.S. troops by the end of 2011. If the accord were rejected, the U.S. would have to withdraw from Iraq within a year of the vote or by the summer of 2010...the "status of forces agreement" calls for the U.S. to train Iraqi forces in specialized areas such as aviation and intelligence gathering and to step to the side as Iraqi forces take control of their communities...

...the official said Maliki warned that releasing the photos would lead to more violence that could delay the scheduled U.S. withdrawal from cities by June 30 and that Iraqis wouldn't make a distinction between old and new photos. The public outrage and increase in violence could lead Iraqis to demand a referendum on the security agreement and refuse to permit U.S. forces to stay until the end of 2011...

If I accept (and I have no reason not to) the statements assigned to Malaki as accurate and his predictions of the outcome, then the release of the photos would lead to the U.S. troops being forced to leave Iraq sooner rather than later.

To which I say, anything that brings the troops home from an unjustified war and an equally unjustified occupation, sooner rather than later is good.

I still believe the photos need to be released. It is not their release that is the problem, but how the U.S. responds.

The disgust with which the first set of photographs were met with was exacerbated by the response of the Bush administration. The failure to hold higher ups accountable. The pathetic sentences handed down. The security of the troops was and still is being harmed more by the failure to hold people accountable for their actions than from the images seen.

Now we have gory details of what the pictures might tell. Nudity, beatings, rape (and if Hirsch if right, we are talking about the rape of at least one child) etc. And still no one is being held accountable.

And in my mind, one lingering thought remains, a very callous comment made by President Obama who on May 13 stated he had seen the photographs and "...they are not particularly sensational, but the conduct did not conform with the Army manual..."

"Not particularly sensational." Rape is 'not particularly sensational.' Or is it "not particularly sensational' because an Iraqi is being beaten and raped. Or is it "not particularly sensational' because a muslim is being beaten and raped.

The photographs need to be released and all individuals involved, and I mean ALL involved should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. No exceptions.